Sony VPL-VW285ES Owners Thread - Page 94 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2791 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by denisoftus View Post
Hey, anyone has upgraded from HW65ES to VW285es in this thread? I'm considering an upgrade and flickering issue is only pushing my further with my decision. But I have seen some 4K demos, in a bright showroom, TBH, and that didn't convince me to spend 3K for an upgrade, saying that, I'm aware that some showrooms are ****e for demoing projectors. Apart from flickering thing, 65ES is a brilliant and quiet projector and lots of 1080p movies (bluray source) are looking amazing, my OLED 55" TV doesn't produce that good of a 1080p image.

Is 285es as quiet as 65es? Do you see a big difference in quality after upgrading? I have only a handful of 4K disks, yet any new I'd buy will be in 4K.
Honestly, I think this might be a downgrade for you in many cases. The 285es won't be as bright, and it wont have the contrast ratio your 65ES has because it doesn't have an iris. The 385ES might be more in line with what you have and adding 4K. On top of all this, the question of how much you will even benefit from 4K comes into play. How big is your screen and how far back are you sitting? I'm sure the 285ES will be sharper, but it probably won't be as impressive on the 1080p content as your 65ES most the time due to lack of iris (grey blacks) and lower lumens.
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post #2792 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I would suggest just using the German HDR curves for HDR (to taste) and leave SDR alone as there is nothing really wanting with SDR presentation on these machines.
thanks. can i watch SDR stuff on the German HDR setting? if not, which is the best setting/calibration for watching non-HDR stuff? i want to set it up once and just flip between the German-HDR setting and one other non-HDR setting for everything else including 3D. is the lamp control on low ok for German-HDR/3D stuff?
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post #2793 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Honestly, I think this might be a downgrade for you in many cases. The 285es won't be as bright, and it wont have the contrast ratio your 65ES has because it doesn't have an iris. The 385ES might be more in line with what you have and adding 4K. On top of all this, the question of how much you will even benefit from 4K comes into play. How big is your screen and how far back are you sitting? I'm sure the 285ES will be sharper, but it probably won't be as impressive on the 1080p content as your 65ES most the time due to lack of iris (grey blacks) and lower lumens.
The screen is 160" and projector is about 6m away from the screen, so the brightness is a factor, I sit about 5m from the screen, but I always watch in low lamp mode ( hence the flickering issue) primary for better blacks and noise level. In high mode the brightness is enough to watch with curtains up, but I prefer to keep in in lower mode for blacks. If 285 will only work in high lamp mode at that distance/screen, I'd prefer to stick with my 65. Perhaps I should wait another year and wait till 385 go down in price?

I started to realise that now I'm watching more on 55" 4K LG OLED then in cinema room, which eliminates its purpose, that's why I'm thinking now of an upgrade.

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post #2794 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by deshwasi View Post
thanks. can i watch SDR stuff on the German HDR setting? if not, which is the best setting/calibration for watching non-HDR stuff? i want to set it up once and just flip between the German-HDR setting and one other non-HDR setting for everything else including 3D. is the lamp control on low ok for German-HDR/3D stuff?
I would suggest using Cinema 1 for SDR and Reference for the German Curves. If you use the German Curves be sure to follow all directions and use the other settings when you use the curves.

If you like you can tweak the SDR settings with suggestions on the forum or from Projector Reviews.
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post #2795 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
I would suggest using Cinema 1 for SDR and Reference for the German Curves. If you use the German Curves be sure to follow all directions and use the other settings when you use the curves.

If you like you can tweak the SDR settings with suggestions on the forum or from Projector Reviews.
thanks. i loaded the German-gamma on the "User" mode. does it stick on all modes or i have to load gamma separately for each mode?
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post #2796 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by deshwasi View Post
thanks. i loaded the German-gamma on the "User" mode. does it stick on all modes or i have to load gamma separately for each mode?
You should use 7,8,9,& 10 to load the custom curves. separately for each mode. You only have to do it once. Be sure to follow the other setttings.
Make sure you also use these settings.
Cinema Black Pro Contrast Enhancer High
Contrast Max
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Expert Setting
HdR (Fff (First of all switch HDR off)
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post #2797 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
You should use 7,8,9,& 10 to load the custom curves. separately for each mode. You only have to do it once. Be sure to follow the other setttings.
Make sure you also use these settings.
Cinema Black Pro Contrast Enhancer High
Contrast Max
Color Temp: Custom 5
Expert Setting
HdR (Fff (First of all switch HDR off)
Color Space BT2020
Gamma Correction 7-10 for curves that you upload
Custom 5 Setup
Color Temp Custom 5 Gain R +27/G +10/B+10 Bias 0/0/0
thanks a lot. i did all that for "user" mode but didnt realize i needed to do it for all the modes individually.
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post #2798 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by deshwasi View Post
thanks a lot. i did all that for "user" mode but didnt realize i needed to do it for all the modes individually.
No only on user mode once or the mode you are using. You must upload the curves to 7-10 under user mode.

Do not make changes on other modes
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post #2799 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 08:59 AM
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Yeah, that is not happening. Lol. I did this wall when my wife was out of town. I am putting a neon beer sign in there along with the pool table hoping that will get her attention more than the wall.
The pool table is for my kids and I to play with. Gives me a chance to talk with my son (14) more. Gets him off the video games a bit. He has already invited the local kids over to play when they get back. Fine by me.
Nothing wrong with that, kids/time goes by so fast.......

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My wife is the best. She painted my theater room over two weekends while I worked. Very dark gray front wall & ceiling, medium gray on the other walls.
Wouldn’t trade her for a true 4K laser projector and new screen!
What if the screen and projector where in a brand new Ford Raptor with a Corvette ZR1 and Camaro ZL1 1LE in toe behind it on your new trailer?

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post #2800 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 10:11 AM
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Nothing wrong with that, kids/time goes by so fast.......

What if the screen and projector where in a brand new Ford Raptor with a Corvette ZR1 and Camaro ZL1 1LE in toe behind it on your new trailer?
Make it a Daytona Challenger, and she'd probably jump. Lucky for me, she loves her little Hyundai Elantra.
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post #2801 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deshwasi View Post
thanks. i loaded the German-gamma on the "User" mode. does it stick on all modes or i have to load gamma separately for each mode?
You should use 7,8,9,& 10 to load the custom curves. separately for each mode. You only have to do it once. Be sure to follow the other setttings.
Make sure you also use these settings.
Cinema Black Pro Contrast Enhancer High
Contrast Max
Color Temp: Custom 5
Expert Setting
HdR (Fff (First of all switch HDR off)
Color Space BT2020
Gamma Correction 7-10 for curves that you upload
Custom 5 Setup
Color Temp Custom 5 Gain R +27/G +10/B+10 Bias 0/0/0
Is that with german gamma version 1 or 2?

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post #2802 of 3724 Old 07-13-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post
Is that with german gamma version 1 or 2?
I would suggest using version 2.
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post #2803 of 3724 Old 07-14-2018, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by denisoftus View Post
The screen is 160" and projector is about 6m away from the screen, so the brightness is a factor, I sit about 5m from the screen, but I always watch in low lamp mode ( hence the flickering issue) primary for better blacks and noise level. In high mode the brightness is enough to watch with curtains up, but I prefer to keep in in lower mode for blacks. If 285 will only work in high lamp mode at that distance/screen, I'd prefer to stick with my 65. Perhaps I should wait another year and wait till 385 go down in price?

I started to realise that now I'm watching more on 55" 4K LG OLED then in cinema room, which eliminates its purpose, that's why I'm thinking now of an upgrade.
Is your whole reason for upgrade because your current lamp flickers when on low lamp mode? I had a sony lamp doing this and running it on high lamp for about 300 hours seemed to solve it. After that it never flickered on low anymore.
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post #2804 of 3724 Old 07-14-2018, 03:52 PM
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Is it normal for Windows 10 to show 1080p as native resolution for my native 4K 285ES? I am able to run Win10 at 4K just fine, but it shows native at 1080p, which could possibly cause problems down the road if programs assume the same thing.
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post #2805 of 3724 Old 07-14-2018, 04:34 PM
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Is it normal for Windows 10 to show 1080p as native resolution for my native 4K 285ES? I am able to run Win10 at 4K just fine, but it shows native at 1080p, which could possibly cause problems down the road if programs assume the same thing.
Yes this is normal behavior. I can only assume that the projector's EDID advertises this for compatibility reasons.
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Sony VPL-VW285ES Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post
Is it normal for Windows 10 to show 1080p as native resolution for my native 4K 285ES? I am able to run Win10 at 4K just fine, but it shows native at 1080p, which could possibly cause problems down the road if programs assume the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yes this is normal behavior. I can only assume that the projector's EDID advertises this for compatibility reasons.

Do you have the HDMI Signal Format for that HDMI PC's input set to Normal or Enhanced?
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post #2807 of 3724 Old 07-14-2018, 05:28 PM
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Do you have the HDMI Signal Format for that HDMI PC's input set to Normal or Enhanced?
It won't matter it'll still show as native at 1080p. The capabilities allow for 3840x2160 and 4096x2160 just the native marker is by 1080p. No changes in projector settings change that.
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post #2808 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 02:38 AM
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Is your whole reason for upgrade because your current lamp flickers when on low lamp mode? I had a sony lamp doing this and running it on high lamp for about 300 hours seemed to solve it. After that it never flickered on low anymore.
Not only, it is just another +1 to replace it, but main reason is to switch to 4K. I'm aware of running in high mode trick and I'm doing it now, mainly during kids watching time I prefer low mode for its better blacks and for low noise level, I have done so far 50 hours in high mode, and I hope its going fix it, as it looks like I won't be changing to 4K any time soon. Will aim for 385 later on next year, considering all that being said. But thanks for your advise.

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post #2809 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by denisoftus View Post
Not only, it is just another +1 to replace it, but main reason is to switch to 4K. I'm aware of running in high mode trick and I'm doing it now, mainly during kids watching time I prefer low mode for its better blacks and for low noise level, I have done so far 50 hours in high mode, and I hope its going fix it, as it looks like I won't be changing to 4K any time soon. Will aim for 385 later on next year, considering all that being said. But thanks for your advise.
If you do decide to go 4K, you're going to want to sit a lot closer than 5m from 160" for the benefit. I'd estimate you'd want to be closer to 3m from that screen to really enjoy 4K. I sit 8 feet from a 135". I use to sit 11 feet back from the 135" but rearranged the room (at some decent cost) to move forward so I could actually see a difference in 4K.
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I sit about 9 feet back from a 110" 16:9 display on my 385 and I can instantly recognize 4K content over 1080p content. Never does the 1080p content look like 4K no matter how much processing is done. The 4k signal just has so much more content in terms of textures, sharpness, and detail that the softer 1080p just doesn't have.

I know you are not a fan of 4K for cinema and watch most of your cinema content in 1080p but I can't understand why you feel that way. To me there is a big difference and it is easily seen on my 110" 16:9 at 9 feet back. I have gotten spoiled and prefer 4k for all my content. I only wish they would hurry up with live tv 4k sports so I can watch the NFL in 4K. I have seen some racing content in 4k and it was stunning.
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post #2811 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 01:13 PM
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I sit about 9 feet back from a 110" 16:9 display on my 385 and I can instantly recognize 4K content over 1080p content. Never does the 1080p content look like 4K no matter how much processing is done. The 4k signal just has so much more content in terms of textures, sharpness, and detail that the softer 1080p just doesn't have.

I know you are not a fan of 4K for cinema and watch most of your cinema content in 1080p but I can't understand why you feel that way. To me there is a big difference and it is easily seen on my 110" 16:9 at 9 feet back. I have gotten spoiled and prefer 4k for all my content. I only wish they would hurry up with live tv 4k sports so I can watch the NFL in 4K. I have seen some racing content in 4k and it was stunning.
And at that size (same as mine) the easiest indicator is non aliased subtitles. Unlike live material they don't upscale by the player or projector so they look chunky. And it honestly really irritates me how it seems UHDs are using 1080p subtitle streams, even on forced subs, like The Revenant, the Bourne movies.
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post #2812 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Honestly, I think this might be a downgrade for you in many cases. The 285es won't be as bright, and it wont have the contrast ratio your 65ES has because it doesn't have an iris. The 385ES might be more in line with what you have and adding 4K. On top of all this, the question of how much you will even benefit from 4K comes into play. How big is your screen and how far back are you sitting? I'm sure the 285ES will be sharper, but it probably won't be as impressive on the 1080p content as your 65ES most the time due to lack of iris (grey blacks) and lower lumens.
Well I had Sony HW50es (very very close to 65) and now have 285es

You are not very right about that. 285 is a lot better than 65es, include 1080p bluray content.

Yes it doesnt have an iris but its native contrast is nearly 16.000. 65s native contrast is 6500-7000

65 is quiter/more quite than 285. The only better thing is that.

Sorry for my English

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post #2813 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 01:42 PM
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Well I had Sony HW50es (very very close to 65) and now have 285es

You are not very right about that. 285 is a lot better than 65es, include 1080p bluray content.

Yes it doesnt have an iris but its native contrast is nearly 16.000. 65s native contrast is 6500-7000

65 is quiter/more quite than 285. The only better thing is that.

Sorry for my English

@denisoftus
Thanks for your input, is 65 less noisy on low lamp or in general? Noise level is very important to me.

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post #2814 of 3724 Old 07-15-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I sit about 9 feet back from a 110" 16:9 display on my 385 and I can instantly recognize 4K content over 1080p content. Never does the 1080p content look like 4K no matter how much processing is done. The 4k signal just has so much more content in terms of textures, sharpness, and detail that the softer 1080p just doesn't have.

I know you are not a fan of 4K for cinema and watch most of your cinema content in 1080p but I can't understand why you feel that way. To me there is a big difference and it is easily seen on my 110" 16:9 at 9 feet back. I have gotten spoiled and prefer 4k for all my content. I only wish they would hurry up with live tv 4k sports so I can watch the NFL in 4K. I have seen some racing content in 4k and it was stunning.
Yea what's funny is I hear this all the time by people with 55" TV's also. 9 feet from 110", ok maybe you can tell but it's not significant in that situation. Most the time it's the HDR/UHD color changes that get people and they think, "Wow, 4K is great" when they really meant "Wow, HDR looks much better".

In most video content, the images are close up and large in the foreground so you cant tell that 4K or 1080p is different in these cases. The details are in small things like the backgrounds or such, but in most video scenes, the baackground is slightly blurred as the focus is on the foreground activity. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you can never tell the difference between 4K and 1080p in movies. I'm saying it's not significant in movies. There are scenes here or there. Like in Blade Runner 2049, 48:00 in, there's a scene where he gets out of the car and you see a high up view of gravel everywhere. At 4K, the details in the rocks show up perfectly. At 1080p or even e-shift those details are mostly lost. But this scene lasts 20 secs and then it's back to close up views and blurred backgrounds.

I'm always touting that games are way different. That's because every single moment of every game, all super small details in the background are always sharp in focus. It's just a completely different thing and 4K is incredibly useful in that case.
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yea what's funny is I hear this all the time by people with 55" TV's also. 9 feet from 110", ok maybe you can tell but it's not significant in that situation. Most the time it's the HDR/UHD color changes that get people and they think, "Wow, 4K is great" when they really meant "Wow, HDR looks much better".

In most video content, the images are close up and large in the foreground so you cant tell that 4K or 1080p is different in these cases. The details are in small things like the backgrounds or such, but in most video scenes, the baackground is slightly blurred as the focus is on the foreground activity. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you can never tell the difference between 4K and 1080p in movies. I'm saying it's not significant in movies. There are scenes here or there. Like in Blade Runner 2049, 48:00 in, there's a scene where he gets out of the car and you see a high up view of gravel everywhere. At 4K, the details in the rocks show up perfectly. At 1080p or even e-shift those details are mostly lost. But this scene lasts 20 secs and then it's back to close up views and blurred backgrounds.

I'm always touting that games are way different. That's because every single moment of every game, all super small details in the background are always sharp in focus. It's just a completely different thing and 4K is incredibly useful in that case.
I've heard this same old explanation time and time again, except it isn't true for me.

I am not talking about HDR comparisons.

I am talking 1080p to 4k. Nothing else. Huge difference. 4k Textures are better. Scenes are more detailed in 4k. 1080p is much softer, smeary, and with pixelation on small details. I can see it in close ups. I can see it it panoramic shots. I can instantly tell if something is 4k when watching. Like I said, it has spoiled me to wanting to watch only 4k content.

What confuses me is that you seem to think there is very little difference between 4k and 1080p except for a very few situations. That just isn't true for me.

Also I am not saying that black levels and high native contrast aren't important. They definitely are important to picture quality. But 4k adds a lot to the whole package with screen sizes over 80".
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post #2816 of 3724 Old 07-16-2018, 08:49 AM
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I have scheduled the 285 viewing in a demo room, hope this will resolve all of my questions. They have a few 4K sources to show in, what it sounds like, a proper dark cinema room. I wish I could bring my HW65 for comparison, but they won't access any customer equipment.

LG OLED 55C6, F9000 + SEK-3500XC (EU), Sony VPL-HW65ES, 7.1, Screen: Black Widow Dulux DS1
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post #2817 of 3724 Old 07-16-2018, 11:39 AM
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I just picked up this projector & it should be here on Friday, i was super stoked until i realized the 13.5gbps limitation (not like me to make a purchase of this nature without researching it to death), i'm trying to gauge the the issues playing 4k HDR content other than the color banding when playing 4k HDR games at 60fps? I do not plan to game but i'm really big into movies & its the main reason i purchased this for my theater room. I bought a 4k tv when they first came out (like 3 years ago) & my current Samsung doesn't support HDR. So for the last year I've been struggling to get 4k HDR content to even play (NVIDIA shield gets by this limitation so i rip my movies & use Plex). I bought 3 different 4k players & returned them all before i realized what was going on. This projector supports HDR but not at 60fps... I'm worried that the appleTv 4k which is so sensitive will have issues. For example, my AppleTV 4k will not play those same 4k HDR movies from my Plex Server (but the NVIDIA shield will). And i've been reading issues with Oppo & the sequence of when items are powered on where it will play the movie in HDR or drop down to 1080. Ive been dealing with this nightmare for almost a year now & i'm worried that i just dropped $5k on this projector & i'm going to have issues all over again... especially when (assuming they already have started) movies are recorded in 60fps. I was hoping this was going to be a long term investment for that kind of money. Is it literally just as simple as dropping the AppleTV down to 24fps for Netflix/Vudu etc... or is it going to be depend on what the show was recorded in? Thanks in advance & sorry for the long post. I read the last few pages but was still unclear on the answers provided.
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post #2818 of 3724 Old 07-16-2018, 11:45 AM
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You just have to make sure your video source is lower than 60fps. Since you don’t game I don’t think you will have an issue. The only HFR disc out there is Billy Lynn and I don’t think there will be many more in the future.
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post #2819 of 3724 Old 07-16-2018, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1Steelerfan View Post
I just picked up this projector & it should be here on Friday, i was super stoked until i realized the 13.5gbps limitation (not like me to make a purchase of this nature without researching it to death), i'm trying to gauge the the issues playing 4k HDR content other than the color banding when playing 4k HDR games at 60fps? I do not plan to game but i'm really big into movies & its the main reason i purchased this for my theater room. I bought a 4k tv when they first came out (like 3 years ago) & my current Samsung doesn't support HDR. So for the last year I've been struggling to get 4k HDR content to even play (NVIDIA shield gets by this limitation so i rip my movies & use Plex). I bought 3 different 4k players & returned them all before i realized what was going on. This projector supports HDR but not at 60fps... I'm worried that the appleTv 4k which is so sensitive will have issues. For example, my AppleTV 4k will not play those same 4k HDR movies from my Plex Server (but the NVIDIA shield will). And i've been reading issues with Oppo & the sequence of when items are powered on where it will play the movie in HDR or drop down to 1080. Ive been dealing with this nightmare for almost a year now & i'm worried that i just dropped $5k on this projector & i'm going to have issues all over again... especially when (assuming they already have started) movies are recorded in 60fps. I was hoping this was going to be a long term investment for that kind of money. Is it literally just as simple as dropping the AppleTV down to 24fps for Netflix/Vudu etc... or is it going to be depend on what the show was recorded in? Thanks in advance & sorry for the long post. I read the last few pages but was still unclear on the answers provided.
Don't worry. Like RodChester said it really only comes into play on 4k HDR 60 hz games. It also can be a factor for some streaming content that is at native 60 hz 4k HDR10. Just remember that you will have no trouble whatsoever with movies as they are native 4K HDR10 24p. Your UHD blu-ray player and/or streaming device most likely will all have settings to output at 4k HDR10 24p for movies. I use an AppleTV 4K and a Panasonic UB-900. No problems with either one.

Also remember that if you do come across some streaming content that requires 60hz then you can either force output to 30p or just turn off HDR. You will still be able to watch the content just fine in SDR without color banding or in HDR10 without color banding but with possible motion issues forcing to 30hz.

But again that content is rare. You most likely will be able to watch any UHD Blu-ray 4K HDR10 movie without problems of color banding.

Also as a side note, this isn't specifically an HDMI problem. The problem is that the Sony projector has a processor that can only handle 10/12 bit color processing up to 4k @ 30hz. Once you exceed 30 hz it must clip to 8 bit color processing. This is what causes the severe banding issues in large color gradients of BT 2020 HDR10 content. In fact, a lot of the Sony processing is disabled in 4K because the processor can't handle those processes and handle the color processing for the huge amount of 4K data coming in. I would suspect that Sony will have to design an entirely new motherboard to handle a processor capable of addressing this issue. So I suspect that it will be a couple of years before this issue is corrected in future replacements of the 285/385/675 line. If anything, probably the 675 will get the update first in a 685 model. That's all I can see they can do to help justify the huge cost increase for the 675 over the 385.
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post #2820 of 3724 Old 07-16-2018, 04:24 PM
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Thanks for the explanation... I’m back to being excited...)...

This is my first projector so I’m trying to figure this all out.

What ceiling mount are you guys using since the pss-h10 is discontinued (and way over priced)

If anyone has a suggestion on a screen (understand that’s a bit of a loaded question)... I can go 110 or 120 if acoustically transparent. 16x9 fits my use case. This is going is my dedicated theater room that has no windows (no ambient light) so I can make it pitch black. However, I have a 3 & 2 year old that likes to come down & play so some times when I play their movies the lights will be on so they can see to play. There are 6 can lights in the room so I can turn off the 2 closer to the front wall. Also will host the football games so it will only be really dark when we are watching movies.

Spent more than I planned on projector so those Elite zero edge grey screen at $500 is probably a price point I would like to stay in. I loved the screen innovations but don’t want to spend that much on the screen. I do like the idea of led strips that color match the content on the screen as long as it’s not distracting which I’m reading it might be.
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