Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 154 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4591 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Generally it's OK to run all through the AVR but make sure video processing is off. A like my Anthem as it has no processing at all.
Thanks for the reply. That was one of the reasons I picked the Anthem AVM60 and that’s why I’m reconsidering my current situation.

Maybe I need to be more specific. I bypassed my previous Onkyo preamp (to avoid any possible degrade) and sent the video from the Oppo 93 directly to my projector. I wasn’t as picky with the HTPC and Roku and went through the Onkyo, then to the projector.

With the Anthem AVM60 (pure pass-through except for adding the OSD, no video processing and it supports everything currently available (18Gbps HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2), is bypassing necessary any more? If not, it would be more convenient to run everything through it and just switch inputs with it.

This is why I posted to the JVC thread. I’ve seen that some of members here are using the Oppo UDP-203 (which I plan on getting along with the RS540) and also have a HTPC with MadVR (which I already have) and would like their opinions.

With my current Panasonic projector, I have different setting on whether I’m using the Oppo or HTPC.

Can I have one setting on HDMI 1 only on the JVC and make any adjustments needed in the Oppo and the HTPC separately? This would be the best solution for me assuming the Anthem has pure pass-through.

The other scenario would be is to run a HDMI cable directly from the Oppo and one from the HTPC to HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the JVC respectively. I’m assuming that you can have different setting HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the JVC. The Roku I would run through the Oppo. Does anyone find this setup to be more worth while?

If there is no advantage to make use of both HDMI inputs on the JVC then I’ll only run one new cable. It’s not necessarily about saving a few bucks but I also have to run more speaker wire for some new height speakers and I have limited space in the conduit I’m using.
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post #4592 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 03:15 PM
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I'm looking for a different 15' HDMI cable as the Monoprice cables (Certified Premium), although work great, are far too thick and don't offer me the flexibility I'm looking for. Anyone else feel the same way and purchase new cables? If so which HDMI cables did you go with?

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post #4593 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 03:30 PM
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Yous haven't tried Jav's curves at all??? Those should form the basis of all these comparisons and discussions IMO before adjusting any gamma settings etc.
You can lead a horse to water...

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post #4594 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
The curves are simple enough to upload. I would really appreciate it someone could upload JAVS 1200 curve as is, and zero out the PJ settings and then compare to the Oppo settings.

I’ve seen someone say Manni’s new curves (and by inference JAVS curves are very close) are close to the Oppo settings, I’ve seen some say ‘way’ better but not specific about what they were comparing.

Or should I spend the same money as what the Oppo would be on a calibration?
Yeah one of the biggest plus points on the Oppo people are saying is the shadow detail. Kris Deering reported Manni's new curves were the closest he's seen to what the Oppo, Lumagen, and his reference OLED were doing in the shadow detail area. Which is naturally why I immediately downloaded Manni's new curves and plot them against mine to see what kind of magic was being done on the bottom end of the new curves, completely open to the idea of actually using them too. I was quite surprised to see that in the case of the 4000nit curve anyway (the 1100nit curve was also so close you wouldn't even see the difference either) they were literally identical to mine all the way up to where the highlight rolloff begins well past the 'shadow detail' portion of the curve.

So, given even my V1 curves were the same in the shadow detail area as my current V2 curves, I can pretty safely say anybody who has been using my curves in the past month or two, has already likely been looking at excellent shadow detail supposiung you all have about the same 100nit peak light level, if you are far lower, I reccomend checking out Manni's curves for lower light outputs he posted, I havent looked at those but I am sure they will suit those with less than optimal light levels. If we can trust what Kris Deering says about the shadow detail performance (the number 1 thing he has always taken issue with using curves), then I am not sure how much the Oppo is going to actually add besides being able to dynamically map the highlights depending on content vs using a couple well made curves. Then again, there are many people talking about having to tweak on title by title basis... that seems a bit more of a process than simply flipping between 1 of 2 curves. If you have the Vertex, this is all super easy if you follow Manni's guide to set it up for Autoswitching.

Personally I have not had a problem with this myself, in actual fact, my curves came about because I had issues with shadow detail on half the titles early on, and sought to make a couple curves that all but fixed the issue, and I haven't felt the need to tweak since then, perhaps only on spectacularly dim titles do we still have issues. But the Revenant keeps being mentioned, and that's one film that looks like reference viewing for me already, and certainly not missing shadow detail. Also Blade Runner 2049, that film barely and I mean BARELY passes 100 nits, the brightest pixel in the entire film is 183 nits, and the brightest screen average is only 73 nits, and that looked excellent on my system with my 1200nit curve clipping to 0 nits black (Bar 64).

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post #4595 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yeah one of the biggest plus points on the Oppo people are saying is the shadow detail. Kris Deering reported Manni's new curves were the closest he's seen to what the Oppo, Lumagen, and his reference OLED were doing in the shadow detail area. Which is naturally why I immediately downloaded Manni's new curves and plot them against mine to see what kind of magic was being done on the bottom end of the new curves, completely open to the idea of actually using them too. I was quite surprised to see that in the case of the 4000nit curve anyway (the 1100nit curve was also so close you wouldn't even see the difference either) they were literally identical to mine all the way up to where the highlight rolloff begins well past the 'shadow detail' portion of the curve.

So, given even my V1 curves were the same in the shadow detail area as my current V2 curves, I can pretty safely say anybody who has been using my curves in the past month or two, has already likely been looking at excellent shadow detail supposiung you all have about the same 100nit peak light level, if you are far lower, I reccomend checking out Manni's curves for lower light outputs he posted, I havent looked at those but I am sure they will suit those with less than optimal light levels. If we can trust what Kris Deering says about the shadow detail performance (the number 1 thing he has always taken issue with using curves), then I am not sure how much the Oppo is going to actually add besides being able to dynamically map the highlights depending on content vs using a couple well made curves. Then again, there are many people talking about having to tweak on title by title basis... that seems a bit more of a process than simply flipping between 1 of 2 curves. If you have the Vertex, this is all super easy if you follow Manni's guide to set it up for Autoswitching.

Personally I have not had a problem with this myself, in actual fact, my curves came about because I had issues with shadow detail on half the titles early on, and sought to make a couple curves that all but fixed the issue, and I haven't felt the need to tweak since then, perhaps only on spectacularly dim titles do we still have issues. But the Revenant keeps being mentioned, and that's one film that looks like reference viewing for me already, and certainly not missing shadow detail. Also Blade Runner 2049, that film barely and I mean BARELY passes 100 nits, the brightest pixel in the entire film is 183 nits, and the brightest screen average is only 73 nits, and that looked excellent on my system with my 1200nit curve clipping to 0 nits black (Bar 64).


I’ll take a look at your curves this week Javs. You mention that BR2049 has a peak of 183, I thought your analysis was showing near 500?


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post #4596 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
The curves are simple enough to upload. I would really appreciate it someone could upload JAVS 1200 curve as is, and zero out the PJ settings and then compare to the Oppo settings.

I’ve seen someone say Manni’s new curves (and by inference JAVS curves are very close) are close to the Oppo settings, I’ve seen some say ‘way’ better but not specific about what they were comparing.

Or should I spend the same money as what the Oppo would be on a calibration?


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This is what I would expect. Adjusting gamma settings on the PJ bare bone will not be accurate in comparison at all and simply is stabbing in the dark IMO.

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post #4597 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
Thanks for the reply. That was one of the reasons I picked the Anthem AVM60 and that’s why I’m reconsidering my current situation.

Maybe I need to be more specific. I bypassed my previous Onkyo preamp (to avoid any possible degrade) and sent the video from the Oppo 93 directly to my projector. I wasn’t as picky with the HTPC and Roku and went through the Onkyo, then to the projector.

With the Anthem AVM60 (pure pass-through except for adding the OSD, no video processing and it supports everything currently available (18Gbps HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2), is bypassing necessary any more? If not, it would be more convenient to run everything through it and just switch inputs with it.

This is why I posted to the JVC thread. I’ve seen that some of members here are using the Oppo UDP-203 (which I plan on getting along with the RS540) and also have a HTPC with MadVR (which I already have) and would like their opinions.

With my current Panasonic projector, I have different setting on whether I’m using the Oppo or HTPC.

Can I have one setting on HDMI 1 only on the JVC and make any adjustments needed in the Oppo and the HTPC separately? This would be the best solution for me assuming the Anthem has pure pass-through.

The other scenario would be is to run a HDMI cable directly from the Oppo and one from the HTPC to HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the JVC respectively. I’m assuming that you can have different setting HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the JVC. The Roku I would run through the Oppo. Does anyone find this setup to be more worth while?

If there is no advantage to make use of both HDMI inputs on the JVC then I’ll only run one new cable. It’s not necessarily about saving a few bucks but I also have to run more speaker wire for some new height speakers and I have limited space in the conduit I’m using.
Running one cable is perfectly fine for all sources, I however run one separate cable for the Panny alone just so I can use the HDFury Linker so it does not add to the sync times on the main chain.

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post #4598 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I’ll take a look at your curves this week Javs. You mention that BR2049 has a peak of 183, I thought your analysis was showing near 500?
Hi Kris,

That waveform is shown in gradient steps from 0 to 1023, here is the legend on how to interpret it.

512 being 100 nits on the waveform, and 768 being 1000.





Regarding Blade Runner 2049, when I watched it, I definitely found this scene to be just about one of the brightest save for an explosion later that gets a hair higher, the metadata suggest 181 was the brightest pixel, it seems to be accurate for this film:



This shot has probably some of the toughest shadow detail ever, even more difficult than Revenant, but its only on screen for a moment.

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post #4599 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Hi Kris,

That waveform is shown in gradient steps from 0 to 1023, here is the legend on how to interpret it.

512 being 100 nits on the waveform, and 768 being 1000.





Regarding Blade Runner 2049, when I watched it, I definitely found this scene to be just about one of the brightest save for an explosion later that gets a hair higher, the metadata suggest 181 was the brightest pixel, it seems to be accurate for this film:



This shot has probably some of the toughest shadow detail ever, even more difficult than Revenant, but its only on screen for a moment.



Can’t even make out that dark scene on my phone. Will look when I get home. Glad to hear the metadata is right. Movie looks fantastic on my setup.


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post #4600 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you upconverting to 4K via E shift?


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Wha Hoo! What a game! I did rung the x990 in 4k mode.

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post #4601 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Yous haven't tried Jav's curves at all??? Those should form the basis of all these comparisons and discussions IMO before adjusting any gamma settings etc.
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You can lead a horse to water...

That's pretty funny... As much as I tried, after downloading the Arve tool software, I couldn't get it to open. I eventually gave up.
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post #4602 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 09:50 PM
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That's pretty funny... As much as I tried, after downloading the Arve tool software, I couldn't get it to open. I eventually gave up.
I might be able to very kindly export a low res version that you can import with the JVC autocal software... Will get to that at some point in the next couple days.

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post #4603 of 12558 Old 02-04-2018, 10:05 PM
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I might be able to very kindly export a low res version that you can import with the JVC autocal software... Will get to that at some point in the next couple days.
Okay, nice!
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post #4604 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 12:08 AM
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That's pretty funny... As much as I tried, after downloading the Arve tool software, I couldn't get it to open. I eventually gave up.
It's easy as, where did you get stuck? The software itself wouldn't open?

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post #4605 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 04:53 AM
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That's pretty funny... As much as I tried, after downloading the Arve tool software, I couldn't get it to open. I eventually gave up.


Did you install python?


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post #4606 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 04:58 AM
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Did you install python?


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Yes, of course.
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post #4607 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 05:01 AM
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It's easy as, where did you get stuck? The software itself wouldn't open?
Couldn't get python to launch.
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post #4608 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 05:45 AM
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Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Couldn't get python to launch.


Wasn’t trying to be smart, you just didn’t provide much details.

So you installed python or couldn’t get it installed? You don’t run python itself, per se. You install the framework and then you can launch the Menu program.

When you double click on ‘menu.py’ nothing happens? Error? I can run it even when not connected to the projector and modify the curves, so you don’t have to be fired up to test the program.


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Last edited by rprice54; 02-05-2018 at 07:37 AM.
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post #4609 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 06:28 AM
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I’m sorry to ask again, but I need to make a decision. If I’m asking the question incorrectly or not in the proper thread, please advise.

Surely someone here is using multiple sources (Oppo, HTPC, Roku, etc.) with their JVC projectors. Is anyone running everything through their receiver/preamp or is it still better to run some sources directly to the projector?

Thanks
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post #4610 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 06:43 AM
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I just binged watched it. I didn't see any banding at all on that scene or any where else.

Great series with HDR & WCG were a real treat.
What did you think of motion on the game ? I assume you watched it.......
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post #4611 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 06:56 AM
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Couldn't get python to launch.
Tried running it as Admin?

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post #4612 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 08:31 AM
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Wasn’t trying to be smart, you just didn’t provide much details.

So you installed python or couldn’t get it installed? You don’t run python itself, per se. You install the framework and then you can launch the Menu program.

When you double click on ‘menu.py’ nothing happens? Error? I can run it even when not connected to the projector and modify the curves, so you don’t have to be fired up to test the program.


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I know.

Installed Python and couldn't get it to operate. Double clicking on mynu.py and nothing happened.

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Tried running it as Admin?
Right...I did that but nothing happens.

Javs said he may send over a file to upload directly from Autocal. I appreciate your help, all.

Anyway, if doesn't work...I mean, at this point, aren't most people saying the Oppo w/new beta is better than what can be achieved with Arve's tool anyway?
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post #4613 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 09:18 AM
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I know.

Installed Python and couldn't get it to operate. Double clicking on mynu.py and nothing happened.



Right...I did that but nothing happens.

Javs said he may send over a file to upload directly from Autocal. I appreciate your help, all.

Anyway, if doesn't work...I mean, at this point, aren't most people saying the Oppo w/new beta is better than what can be achieved with Arve's tool anyway?
Are you using it on a Mac? If so, you have to run the module after double clicking.
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post #4614 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I mean, at this point, aren't most people saying the Oppo w/new beta is better than what can be achieved with Arve's tool anyway?


That’s the question we are trying to answer. Some folks with older projectors are saying yes. Some folks are saying they are ‘close’ but I haven’t seen anyone say specifically what curve they are comparing and how one is better than the other. I asked in the Oppo 203 thread but didn’t get an answer.


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post #4615 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
That’s the question we are trying to answer. Some folks with older projectors are saying yes. Some folks are saying they are ‘close’ but I haven’t seen anyone say specifically what curve they are comparing and how one is better than the other. I asked in the Oppo 203 thread but didn’t get an answer.


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You might want to wait another month or so Panasonic is coming out with two new players that have the same function as oppos.. I'm happy with my curves but I need to get a new player because I'm still using my Xbox One as a Blu-ray player.. at this point for me it's either the upper of a Panasonic whichever has the best image is the one I'm getting..

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post #4616 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
You might want to wait another month or so Panasonic is coming out with two new players that have the same function as oppos.. I'm happy with my curves but I need to get a new player because I'm still using my Xbox One as a Blu-ray player.. at this point for me it's either the upper of a Panasonic whichever has the best image is the one I'm getting..

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The Panasonic 820 is likely not coming until July/August from what I heard. We also don't know exactly what the new feature will entail or how it will compare to the Oppo.
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post #4617 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I know.

Installed Python and couldn't get it to operate. Double clicking on mynu.py and nothing happened.



Right...I did that but nothing happens.

Javs said he may send over a file to upload directly from Autocal. I appreciate your help, all.

Anyway, if doesn't work...I mean, at this point, aren't most people saying the Oppo w/new beta is better than what can be achieved with Arve's tool anyway?
Are you running it from the directory it got installed to or the one the files got extracted to? One will work the other won't.

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post #4618 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 12:25 PM
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The Panasonic 820 is likely not coming until July/August from what I heard. We also don't know exactly what the new feature will entail or how it will compare to the Oppo.
damn I thought it was just around the corner.. I wanted to wait because I keep reading how the Panasonic is a bit sharper.. Do you know if the Oppo is now as sharp as the Panasonic.. Did they increase the sharpness with thos update?

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post #4619 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
damn I thought it was just around the corner.. I wanted to wait because I keep reading how the Panasonic is a bit sharper.. Do you know if the Oppo is now as sharp as the Panasonic.. Did they increase the sharpness with thos update?

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Kris Deering has both and he has commented that he doubts anybody can tell a difference, when viewing content.
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post #4620 of 12558 Old 02-05-2018, 03:32 PM
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Are you using it on a Mac? If so, you have to run the module after double clicking.
Not a MAC, but thanks for the heads up.

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Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
That’s the question we are trying to answer. Some folks with older projectors are saying yes. Some folks are saying they are ‘close’ but I haven’t seen anyone say specifically what curve they are comparing and how one is better than the other. I asked in the Oppo 203 thread but didn’t get an answer.
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If the Arve tool curves are just as good as the Oppo's, then why spend the money unless you need a player. But if they aren't and the Oppo looks more like Madvr or the Lumagen, then....

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Are you running it from the directory it got installed to or the one the files got extracted to? One will work the other won't.
The last time that I tried, I thought I did --but I'm not 100% sure. I'll try again tonight. Thanks.
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