Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 174 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5191 of 12212 Old 03-17-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gettingold View Post
short version: Things like picture mode (BT2020 vs HDR), picture tone, dark level, etc are new to me. The front page has some great sample numbers, but I would love an explanation of them (especially as they apply to Oppo vs non-Oppo, various UHD input types).

Long version:
I'm _loving_ my 540, yay us! And thank you all for the rec. I just got a Sony x700 as a first 4k player (rationalization being I can get an Oppo later and it will be great as a second unit). The HDR looked super-poppy on the quick bedroom test on the LG Oled... and it looked amazing on the 540 -- except when it's too dark. For the first time I actually feel like I have a theater, rather than a really big TV -- it's like the movies... except when it's too dark.

So, I'd love to be able to understand the tweaking so I can tweak it up occasionally (based on source material or occasional sub-par light control). Sometimes I just think HDR isn't worth the lack of pop... so I think I understand the attraction to the Oppo 203 ignore meta feature.

Currently, my JVC automatically goes to HDR mode, with the basic HDR settings. If I change the Color Profile from HDR to BT.2020 it gets brighter (the input is 2020, so I don't understand why that isn't the default profile used, or the difference between them). If I change the Gamma off HDR to Custom then everything gets brighter/washed-out and throws off color.

Anyway, the basic question is there a nice place to read up on all this stuff rather than eaking out tidbits from threads. Like, what is the equivalent to the old "brightness" -- if I want to bring up the black level at the expense of contrast so I can see in the dark? Like if you wanted to cheap on an HDR game?

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I know it's a ramble... I really am just looking for a writeup on every control and how they interact with the different UHD input types.


(FYI... my screen is almost surely too big for proper HDR with a 540, so part of understanding is so I can fix for this with minimum damage).
It's all in this thread, it takes some reading but it's been detailed multiple times. Have fun reading

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post #5192 of 12212 Old 03-17-2018, 11:31 AM
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Build that box 18" X 24" X 24" out of 3/4" plywood that I mentioned. Put a back on the box out of 3/4" plywood or a header running across the top using a 2" by 4". Mount her up with lag bolts into your wall studs or tap cons if you are going into concrete. If done right you could put more weight than a projector in there. Don't forget to vent the box if you are mounting to the wall.
If I was that handy with tools I wouldn't be asking for advise to go an easier route than installing the projector on the ceiling

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post #5193 of 12212 Old 03-17-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
If I was that handy with tools I wouldn't be asking for advise to go an easier route than installing the projector on the ceiling

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If you can find a shelf deep enough install it on the back wall at the height needed. Just make sure you get a shelf and supports that can handle the weight. Otherwise, you might need to hire a professional.
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post #5194 of 12212 Old 03-17-2018, 02:38 PM
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Recently got my RS 640. Watching March Madness...looks jerky and not clear with my Direct TV genie. All other stuff (Oppo, Plex, ect) looks great. Any recommneded setting for the JVC with Direct TV, particularly sports?

Thanks,
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post #5195 of 12212 Old 03-17-2018, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
If I was that handy with tools I wouldn't be asking for advise to go an easier route than installing the projector on the ceiling

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https://www.amazon.com/OmniMount-ECS...rojector+shelf
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post #5196 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 01:30 AM
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Could have been a workable solution but max weight support is only 30 lbs. JVC X790 is 34 lbs.

Does anyone have any experience with QualGear Pro-AV QG-KIT-CA-3IN-B mount?
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post #5197 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 07:57 AM
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Anyone else have trouble with blacks being crushed on Netflix?? I've tried both my Roku and Shield, same result. Everything else I've watched in 4k HDR looks correct with my current settings. As best as I can tell from testing using one of the Netflix shows (Jessica Jones), I need to be around +10 on brightness to get it correct. This seems to be where the black floor starts to raise also.
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post #5198 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
On the x40 models there is.

Its just a colour profile targeting Rec2020 without the use of the P3 filter.
Hi Javs.. Have you been able to test the oppo against your curves yet?
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post #5199 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
Hi Javs.. Have you been able to test the oppo against your curves yet?
I think he was busy, ( work related) for a couple of days..
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post #5200 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 02:04 PM
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just fyi: I did a little test as well on my X5900 and of course even without the filter, you can clearly measure the smaller color space:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post55875916
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post #5201 of 12212 Old 03-18-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Anyone else have trouble with blacks being crushed on Netflix?? I've tried both my Roku and Shield, same result. Everything else I've watched in 4k HDR looks correct with my current settings. As best as I can tell from testing using one of the Netflix shows (Jessica Jones), I need to be around +10 on brightness to get it correct. This seems to be where the black floor starts to raise also.
Using Oppo 203 on Mode 2 300 nits, BT2020 and it looks phenomenal!!!
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post #5202 of 12212 Old 03-19-2018, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Using Oppo 203 on Mode 2 300 nits, BT2020 and it looks phenomenal!!!
So you're running a streaming box through the Oppo? IIRC the Oppo doesn't have any streaming apps. Seems like that should be unnecessary. Like I said, other sources seem to be fine including Amazon and UHD BD.
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post #5203 of 12212 Old 03-19-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
So you're running a streaming box through the Oppo? IIRC the Oppo doesn't have any streaming apps. Seems like that should be unnecessary. Like I said, other sources seem to be fine including Amazon and UHD BD.
One of the benefits of the Oppo is it's HDMI input. It allows you to pass through 4k video, so if like myself you don't have a receiver capable of passing 4K you can get multiple devices connected to the projector with one cable. Also, with the HDMI input you can have the Oppo handle the HDR mapping instead of having the JVC do it.
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post #5204 of 12212 Old 03-19-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
So you're running a streaming box through the Oppo? IIRC the Oppo doesn't have any streaming apps. Seems like that should be unnecessary. Like I said, other sources seem to be fine including Amazon and UHD BD.
I'm using a Roku.
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post #5205 of 12212 Old 03-19-2018, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Using Oppo 203 on Mode 2 300 nits, BT2020 and it looks phenomenal!!!
Except you are really only getting Rec709

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post #5206 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gettingold View Post
short version: Things like picture mode (BT2020 vs HDR), picture tone, dark level, etc are new to me. The front page has some great sample numbers, but I would love an explanation of them (especially as they apply to Oppo vs non-Oppo, various UHD input types).

...

Anyway, the basic question is there a nice place to read up on all this stuff rather than eaking out tidbits from threads. Like, what is the equivalent to the old "brightness" -- if I want to bring up the black level at the expense of contrast so I can see in the dark? Like if you wanted to cheap on an HDR game?

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I know it's a ramble... I really am just looking for a writeup on every control and how they interact with the different UHD input types.).
I posted a similar request not too long ago, is there a newbie guide... Apparently the answer is no, though obviously the first post in the thread has excellent info (I just don't know how to interpret it).

Instead the best answer is to read 5,000 plus posts on 170 plus pages 8-(

What we need is a beginner like you or me, but with more time than me, to distill everything into a beginners guide plus what the controls do like you're asking (more advanced.)

8-)


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post #5207 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtlocke View Post
I posted a similar request not too long ago, is there a newbie guide... Apparently the answer is no, though obviously the first post in the thread has excellent info (I just don't know how to interpret it).

Instead the best answer is to read 5,000 plus posts on 170 plus pages 8-(

What we need is a beginner like you or me, but with more time than me, to distill everything into a beginners guide plus what the controls do like you're asking (more advanced.)

8-)


-Dick Locke
It just we answer your question with a long drawn out answer, then 3 days later it gets asked again, then again, then again... it's not that folks don't want to help, but the answers are already here.

It is daunting to read through tons of posts, I get it. Use the search function. The best place to start with regards to the Autocal and importing of custom curves would be the 2015 Autocal thread, post 1 has lots of links to specific discussions on how to best run autocal. Some of the settings don't apply to us, but the basic setup and procedure is spelled out. User Manni has put a ton of info on that thread. I used his most recent recommendations for autocal (I basically only autocal the modes and iris settings I'm using, instead of all the iris settings).

The sticky to Javs post on how to install and use ARVE's tool would be the second thing I would look at.

I've posted my own personal steps at least twice in in the last few weeks. I guess I could fine tune those and sticky them, but I'm a newcomer to the JVC world, and certainly not a pro. I've stuck with Autocal/Spyder and Javs curves and gotten good results. I don't want to step on the toes of other more experienced users and calibrators. Mine could be the 'beginner' setup steps maybe? If folks want to look them over again and want to sticky them to the first post I'd be okay with that. Link pending.

As far as looking for more info on what settings do what, good luck. I had to google 'clear black' and 'motion enhance' etc. I'm still not sure what a lot of the settings do, so I keep them off or low.
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post #5208 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Except you are really only getting Rec709
How is that, Javs? I have to disagree for now. The color setting used in the 203 is BT2020 and the PJ is set to match, at BT2020. The image is not showing over-saturation in anyway, indicative of no mismatch. Color measurements using a meter show substantially full DCI P3.

When, for example, in the past with my X750 I used the Integral to strip metadata, and set the PJ to 2020, same thing, full P3. But when the player was converting and sending 709 to PJ, and PJ set to BT2020, the image looked horrible, a clear mismatch, over-saturated, reds, greens, etc., etc.

Please explain.
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post #5209 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 08:51 AM
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How I setup my JVC RS540 as a beginner/newbie to the JVC world. This is basically a summary of what I’ve done to achieve a picture that I’m super happy with for SDR and HDR content. I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the autocal thread, older JVC threads, and this thread. I don’t claim to have created any of this, just summarizing for the sake of other newbies. I had two different Epson projectors before this one, and basically unpacked them, installed them, found the profile I liked most and dialed that in with the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition disc. That’s my background before the JVC. It’s been a lot more work getting this dialed in but the end result is far superior. Out of the box THX mode was great for SDR. HDR took some work.

Threads/Posts:
Calibration thread, not specific to our models but tons of info on Autocal and gamma curves. Start on page 1 for stickies:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

Javs How-to-guide for installing his curves (my favorites so far):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55203652

Light meter. This was recommended to me by other forum members, I’m sure there are better/more expensive ones out there:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used a Spyder 5 Express, same hardware as the more expensive models except for the ambient light sensor which I didn’t use.

The autocal and custom curve processes are related but setup independently and don’t need to be re-run when you change the other. The uploaded curve is based on the ‘normal’ gamma curve, so calibrate that and the custom curves will use the calibrated gamma as their starting point. If you do a ‘touch-up’ calibration along the way you won’t need to touch the curves.

I were starting from scratch today this is what I would do:
Get some bulb time, 50-100 hours before auto-calibration. I’d probably go ahead and install the custom curves for HDR content while waiting.

AutoCal:
I setup autocal per the JVC instructions, connected directly to my laptop with ethernet. I setup Gamma+Color high quality, 33 steps. Many folks don’t trust the Spyder for color and do gamma only. I live on the edge… I can’t verify it’s accuracy but I like how the picture looks, good enough for me.

Figure out what modes/iris settings/CMD settings you are using for SDR and HDR content. You will need to calibrate each iris position and CMD on/off setting for each mode, so you’ll save some time by only calibrating what you need. I initially dialed in my manual iris by eye and after I bought the light meter I was actually pretty close. I made a quick and dirty excel calculator to convert lux to foot lamberts (fl)/nits based on my screen size and gain. I used the 100% IRE pattern on the SM disc for a white field. I have a 120” 16:9 1.1 screen.

For SDR content I ended up with iris at -10 (~17fl), I initially calibrated the Cinema 1, 6500, normal gamma settings but later uploaded Manni’s rec709 color profile (See calibration thread) and calibrated that, I was much happier with the rec709 (with filter) profile. My blu rays have never looked so good.

For HDR I ended up at -5 with a target of 30fl on low lamp. I use this for most of my casual, only me HDR viewing. For movie night with friends and family I use high lamp but at the same iris setting for extra punch. I calibrated both HDR low and high lamp at this iris setting. Many folks run iris wide open (I think they are on older PJs/bulbs with less lumens). Wide open was too bright for animated/bright movies. This will vary baed on your lamp/environment.

I use CMD on low for everything so I would run three autocals: rec709, HDR low, HDR high. All with gamma set to normal for calibration.

Still with me?

Uploading curves
I won’t repeat all of Javs information. I installed his v3 curves, 1200nit and 4000nit, into my custom GAMMA slots 1 and 2. I leave my Custom USER mode 1 as my ‘HDR import mode’ as the ARVE tool reports lots of errors unless you use the custom slots. Auto iris is off. all enhancements are off. Gamma Custom is set to import. I use this to import and dial in my BBO levels.

Then, I setup the PJs default HDR USER mode as my main HDR mode, BT2020 color, low lamp, auto 1 iris (-5), CMD low, clear black low, Enhance 3, Custom slot 2 import (4000nit curve). Thats what loads up automatically with HDR content. When friends are over I click the lamp over to high but leave everything else untouched. Colors are more saturated, the overall image brightness isn’t significantly increased but the highlights are brighter and have more pop in high lamp mode.

Hope that helps.
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post #5210 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
How is that, Javs? I have to disagree for now. The color setting used in the 203 is BT2020 and the PJ is set to match, at BT2020. The image is not showing over-saturation in anyway, indicative of no mismatch. Color measurements using a meter show substantially full DCI P3.

When, for example, in the past with my X750 I used the Integral to strip metadata, and set the PJ to 2020, same thing, full P3. But when the player was converting and sending 709 to PJ, and PJ set to BT2020, the image looked horrible, a clear mismatch, over-saturated, reds, greens, etc., etc.

Please explain.
Check out the Oppo thread and the last 5 pages of the rs600 thread. The Oppo is only outputting rec709 inside a rec2020 container while using tone mapping. Been confirmed across multiple projector brands and the JVC. Zombie and a few others have measured it.

Have you measured with a meter the colour output while using tone mapping specifically? If you have you would be the first to actually be getting rec2020 with tone mapping. Are you using the beta fw?

Everybody is trying to trouble shoot over the for the past week.

Its not going to look like a colour mismatch since everything says it's rec2020 but the actual primaries are measuring well under.
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post #5211 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 10:38 AM
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Basic question for the JVC experts - sorry if it's been answered before, but I haven't had time to read this entire thread, yet.

I just took delivery last week of an RS640 and am in the early stages of testing/viewing. It's currently shelf-mounted, right-side up, high on a wall in the room behind the home theater (a few inches from the ceiling), firing through a porthole onto the screen in the home theater. The RS640's lens is roughly at the same height as the top of my screen.

With this placement, I of course have to use vertical lens shift to bring the image down onto the screen. Am I using so much lens shift that I am ending up viewing through the edge of the lens, and therefore sacrificing some sharpness that I would get from being closer to the lens center? From what I can gather, I don't think it would be a problem if I were doing a traditional ceiling mount (PJ inverted). I'm just not sure if it's an issue if the PJ is right-side up, as mine is. Given that the RS640 has 80% lens shift in both vertical directions, I'm hoping it makes no difference whether the PJ is mounted right-side up vs. inverted. But I'm not sure.

In the end, my placement options are somewhat limited...I just need to know, for piece of mind.

Thanks!

Thanks,

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post #5212 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 11:20 AM
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Do you guys have any recommendation for good HDMI cable that can pass 4K and HDR? I am looking for something around 25 feet.
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post #5213 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Check out the Oppo thread and the last 5 pages of the rs600 thread. The Oppo is only outputting rec709 inside a rec2020 container while using tone mapping. Been confirmed across multiple projector brands and the JVC. Zombie and a few others have measured it.

Have you measured with a meter the colour output while using tone mapping specifically? If you have you would be the first to actually be getting rec2020 with tone mapping. Are you using the beta fw?

Everybody is trying to trouble shoot over the for the past week.

Its not going to look like a colour mismatch since everything says it's rec2020 but the actual primaries are measuring well under.
Yeah, I'm using the Beta and did not download the new public firmware. I didn't know that. Okay, so I just placed the pattern disc in the player and ran the DCI-P3 color in CP. I'll re-check again tonight to see if did it wrong or if I had it with BT2020/HDR on or defaulted.
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post #5214 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 12:27 PM
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Do you guys have any recommendation for good HDMI cable that can pass 4K and HDR? I am looking for something around 25 feet.
30-foot Blue Jeans Series 1E HDMI is working just fine in my system from Oppo to JVC projector with 4K HDR. It's thick, not very flexible and heavy, BUT it does work well, even with a 1 foot port saver dongle at the end of the run into projector.

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post #5215 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
30-foot Blue Jeans Series 1E HDMI is working just fine in my system from Oppo to JVC projector with 4K HDR. It's thick, not very flexible and heavy, BUT it does work well, even with a 1 foot port saver dongle at the end of the run into projector.
My room is only 16 feet long but since I'll be running the cable from the AVR (Yamaha 3070) to the JVC projector, I think I should be able to her away with a smaller cable.

Are you using a wall mounted conduit or plugging the cable directly?

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post #5216 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
My room is only 16 feet long but since I'll be running the cable from the AVR (Yamaha 3070) to the JVC projector, I think I should be able to her away with a smaller cable.

Are you using a wall mounted conduit or plugging the cable directly?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Running direcly up through drywall ceiling cavity between joists and then down into projector mounted on a shelf. No plate connections, just the 1 foot port saver which is essentially their FE HDMI cable in a dongle form to allow a "less stressful" connection to the HDMI port.

If you haven't seen it, check out the HDMI cable test on Sound and Vision. They tested several brands at different resolutions/bits and lengths and provided pass or fail for each. Seemed like one of the few objective tests I've found.
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post #5217 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Yeah, I'm using the Beta and did not download the new public firmware
For the moment , stay with the "Beta" firmware.
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post #5218 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
Running direcly up through drywall ceiling cavity between joists and then down into projector mounted on a shelf. No plate connections, just the 1 foot port saver which is essentially their FE HDMI cable in a dongle form to allow a "less stressful" connection to the HDMI port.

If you haven't seen it, check out the HDMI cable test on Sound and Vision. They tested several brands at different resolutions/bits and lengths and provided pass or fail for each. Seemed like one of the few objective tests I've found.
Do you by any chance have a link for that port saver? I cannot find it on Amazon.
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post #5219 of 12212 Old 03-20-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
Do you by any chance have a link for that port saver? I cannot find it on Amazon.
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store...ries/index.htm

Only white is in stock right now.

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Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
How I setup my JVC RS540 as a beginner/newbie to the JVC world. This is basically a summary of what I’ve done to achieve a picture that I’m super happy with for SDR and HDR content. I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the autocal thread, older JVC threads, and this thread. I don’t claim to have created any of this, just summarizing for the sake of other newbies. I had two different Epson projectors before this one, and basically unpacked them, installed them, found the profile I liked most and dialed that in with the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition disc. That’s my background before the JVC. It’s been a lot more work getting this dialed in but the end result is far superior. Out of the box THX mode was great for SDR. HDR took some work.

Threads/Posts:
Calibration thread, not specific to our models but tons of info on Autocal and gamma curves. Start on page 1 for stickies:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

Javs How-to-guide for installing his curves (my favorites so far):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55203652

Light meter. This was recommended to me by other forum members, I’m sure there are better/more expensive ones out there:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used a Spyder 5 Express, same hardware as the more expensive models except for the ambient light sensor which I didn’t use.

The autocal and custom curve processes are related but setup independently and don’t need to be re-run when you change the other. The uploaded curve is based on the ‘normal’ gamma curve, so calibrate that and the custom curves will use the calibrated gamma as their starting point. If you do a ‘touch-up’ calibration along the way you won’t need to touch the curves.

I were starting from scratch today this is what I would do:
Get some bulb time, 50-100 hours before auto-calibration. I’d probably go ahead and install the custom curves for HDR content while waiting.

AutoCal:
I setup autocal per the JVC instructions, connected directly to my laptop with ethernet. I setup Gamma+Color high quality, 33 steps. Many folks don’t trust the Spyder for color and do gamma only. I live on the edge… I can’t verify it’s accuracy but I like how the picture looks, good enough for me.

Figure out what modes/iris settings/CMD settings you are using for SDR and HDR content. You will need to calibrate each iris position and CMD on/off setting for each mode, so you’ll save some time by only calibrating what you need. I initially dialed in my manual iris by eye and after I bought the light meter I was actually pretty close. I made a quick and dirty excel calculator to convert lux to foot lamberts (fl)/nits based on my screen size and gain. I used the 100% IRE pattern on the SM disc for a white field. I have a 120” 16:9 1.1 screen.

For SDR content I ended up with iris at -10 (~17fl), I initially calibrated the Cinema 1, 6500, normal gamma settings but later uploaded Manni’s rec709 color profile (See calibration thread) and calibrated that, I was much happier with the rec709 (with filter) profile. My blu rays have never looked so good.

For HDR I ended up at -5 with a target of 30fl on low lamp. I use this for most of my casual, only me HDR viewing. For movie night with friends and family I use high lamp but at the same iris setting for extra punch. I calibrated both HDR low and high lamp at this iris setting. Many folks run iris wide open (I think they are on older PJs/bulbs with less lumens). Wide open was too bright for animated/bright movies. This will vary baed on your lamp/environment.

I use CMD on low for everything so I would run three autocals: rec709, HDR low, HDR high. All with gamma set to normal for calibration.

Still with me?

Uploading curves
I won’t repeat all of Javs information. I installed his v3 curves, 1200nit and 4000nit, into my custom GAMMA slots 1 and 2. I leave my Custom USER mode 1 as my ‘HDR import mode’ as the ARVE tool reports lots of errors unless you use the custom slots. Auto iris is off. all enhancements are off. Gamma Custom is set to import. I use this to import and dial in my BBO levels.

Then, I setup the PJs default HDR USER mode as my main HDR mode, BT2020 color, low lamp, auto 1 iris (-5), CMD low, clear black low, Enhance 3, Custom slot 2 import (4000nit curve). Thats what loads up automatically with HDR content. When friends are over I click the lamp over to high but leave everything else untouched. Colors are more saturated, the overall image brightness isn’t significantly increased but the highlights are brighter and have more pop in high lamp mode.

Hope that helps.
Really appreciate this summary. Thanks for taking the time to post. I'm sure it will help many of us follow a logical sequence...at least until 4 pages later when the question comes up again.

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