Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Sorry but thats not good enough test material.

The Matrix Revolutions is a 2k DI if you are lucky, the bluray is a VC1 encode and is only 15gb for the whole film, you may as well be testing netflix, it will be much higher quality.

I am more interested in text, and weather eshift 5 truncates text like it used to.

Here is a great example I just remembered I had a shot of:



If you could throw this image up on your screen, make sure the scaling is 1:1 and attempt to take the same shot that would be excellent!

Where can I get this image at full resolution?
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post #512 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanpino View Post
Where can I get this image at full resolution?

Just save the image it will save as a full resolution PNG

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post #513 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanpino View Post
Where can I get this image at full resolution?
Right click and open in new window or 'view image'. Its already the full res.

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post #514 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Maybe Bytehoven can take a better shot of those lines for us?
The best scenario is to hold out for a week, i will have two JVC's in the same room.

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post #515 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 09:13 PM
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I happened to see the JVC x9900 in action this weekend, at the TAVES show in Toronto. JVC had done a nice job of entirely blacking out a small room. It was projecting some eye-candy nature in UHD/HDR. I'd have guessed the screen to be 110" 16:9 or so, but the JVC guy said it was 136", which I couldn't wrap my head around because it sure didn't look that big. The footage looked quite nice, extremely vivid and I could see HDR doing it's thing for sure. When trying to evaluate the image quality I felt I had to compensate for the added screen noise by what I thought was an ALR screen (JVC has used Elunevision ALR screens before and I've found them to be extremely "noisy" screens in terms of dirty/sparkly screen texture. To my surprise when I asked the screen type I was told it was actually a pure white, 1.0 gain screen! Looking off axis, yes it seemed to the case. Hence the "noise" I was attributing to the screen was actually in the image. It wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't smooth. I have no idea of the picture settings of course so it's pretty useless information. But since I saw it....

Either way, in low lamp the 9900 was plenty bright and easily pulling off HDR on a fairly large 1.0 gain screen, which was impressive.
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post #516 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Maybe Bytehoven can take a better shot of those lines for us?
I'm gonna pick up a tripod mount for my Galaxy S7 tomorrow. I'll try to take another pic and use the PRO mode to manually adjust for focus, iris and shutter speed. I should be able to get a better picture than AUTO mode or from my old Nikon Coolpix which is having trouble focusing lately.
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post #517 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I'm gonna pick up a tripod mount for my Galaxy S7 tomorrow. I'll try to take another pic and use the PRO mode to manually adjust for focus, iris and shutter speed. I should be able to get a better picture than AUTO mode or from my old Nikon Coolpix which is having trouble focusing lately.
If it lets you do long exposure times try that too.

Fast exposures tend to be a little more 'dirty'.

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post #518 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Hence the "noise" I was attributing to the screen was actually in the image. It wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't smooth. I have no idea of the picture settings of course so it's pretty useless information. But since I saw it....
Do you know what the screen make was? I've found Stewart screens to be really excellent when it comes to minimal texture. As far as mitigating sparkles, Snowmatt/St100 or even Neve are good. Don't get me wrong, other brands can do well too. With that, I will say that I've noticed some noise in the image of the X990 at times, but I attribute that to it picking up most every detail through its excellent convergence (and great lens), at least on my unit.

Last edited by Aztar35; 11-11-2017 at 11:59 PM.
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post #519 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:09 PM
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So, I measured color, rec. 709, in user two and had an average DE of 1.4. Once my unit hits about 50 hours, I'll perform a calibration using Autocal.

As far as noise, I tested Eshift5 on a 1080P source using a digital animation sequence since it technically has no real grain. (See pic of scene below shot off screen with phone.)

I had the PJ scale with player outputting 1080P. The results were excellent. I found no mosquito noise and the picture to be very clean and steady.
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post #520 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
The screens I've sampled with the least texture are Stewart screens. Don't get me wrong, Elunevision makes a great screen too. Now, I will say that I've noticed some noise in the image of X990 at times but I attribute that to an outstanding lens and convergence coupled with the high brightness of a new lamp, at least on my unit, picking up every bit in the image.

I attached some pics.
Dude that is ridiculously good convergence.
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post #521 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Dude that is ridiculously good convergence.
Isn't it. I said it was crazy in my first report. Thanks.

I hope all have a similar experience and get great convergence with these new units.
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Last edited by Aztar35; 10-15-2017 at 05:44 AM.
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post #522 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:40 PM
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No kidding. I'll be ecstatic if mine is that good.
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The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #523 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post
No kidding. I'll be ecstatic if mine is that good.
Maybe mine could have gotten by with a red casing? Lol

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post #524 of 12700 Old 10-14-2017, 11:57 PM
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[QUOTE=Aztar35;54956012]
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post
Maybe mine could have gotten by with a red casing? Lol
That's the pj lottery. My luck has never been that good lol.

I'm afraid to open mine as i keep waffling back and forth between this and the 385. If i had your unit it would be a no brainer.

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #525 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 12:02 AM
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[quote=bass addict;54956028]
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post

That's the pj lottery. My luck has never been that good lol.

I'm afraid to open mine as i keep waffling back and forth between this and the 385. If i had your unit it would be a no brainer.
If you're thinking of the 385, I can understand your hesitance. And I think more people will gain insight from Javs' reporting/tests once he gets his.
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post #526 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Hence the "noise" I was attributing to the screen was actually in the image. It wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't smooth. I have no idea of the picture settings of course so it's pretty useless information. But since I saw it....
Do you know what the screen make was? I've found Stewart screens to be really excellent when it comes to minimal texture. As far as mitigating sparkles, Snowmatt/St100 or even Neve are good. Don't get me wrong, other brands can do well too. With that, I will say that I've noticed some noise in the image of the X990 at times, but I attribute that to it picking up most every detail through its excellent convergence (and great lens), at least on my unit.
I attached some pics.
The lens on these is crazy good. I finally got around to mounting my x990 with new slb281 to the rest of my chief parts on the ceiling. I took about 30 minutes to get my projected image perfectly square on my screen. I then fed the x990 a 1080p image from my HTPC and turned eshift off. While right next to the screen, I focused the projector watching the pixel edges in the center of the screen. I went back and forth and found the center of the focus. I then went over to extreme left side of projected image. I had good focus on the pixel edges. I went over the right, same good focus on pixel edges. This observation was even better then when I 1st tested the x990 a few days ago. I figure it is because of better centering the projector to the screen, so the distance of projected light to the screen was more evenly balanced to the left and right sides. I zoomed out the image to a 2.35 cih screen size and left and right sides were still excellent. Outstanding.

Something I noticed today, while the normal projected image focus is like i said above, when the pixel adjustment pattern is up, the farthest outside line on one side is slightly out of focus, while the rest of the pattern is normal. I'd be interested if anyone sees the same thing. I can't account for the difference and only really care about the normal projected image, but I am curious about this difference.

Aztar... in you convergence pattern, what do the far left and right grid lines look like? On my unit, the left outside line nh has the red panel convergence coming up about 4 fine clicks short of perfect. The next line in is 2 fine clicks short, then the rest of the grid is 1 fine click short of perfect. Of course, none of this can be seen from a couple of steps back from the screen. So i will have pixel adjust memory 1 setup with these small fine click tweaks, and I'll be checking to see if I can observe any change between memory 1 and off on some movie content. I guessing I won't be able to see the difference from my 11 foot viewing distance and I'll leav e the pixel adjust set to off. I can also confirm allowing 30 minutes of warm up reduced the amount of adjustment previously observed. Better projector orientation may have also helped.

I agree having such an extra clear and sharp image is a two edged sword. As in the past with large pixel projectors, a very slight defocus can actually look amazing, and maybe a better choice than using the mpc smoothing or noise reduction, but i will be testing both.It

I have discovered one minor thing on my x990, the lens adjust function will occasionally jump 2 clicks. Not sure if the 520 did this because I did not play with the 520 adjust right up near the screen like the x990. I don't see this as a problem, just something I'd note so if others observe the same thing, it may be norm al for the lens shift mechanism.

I am planning to pick up a spyder 5 next week, so I too can get some base reference measurements and then see what needs to be tweaked after I get more run time on the projector. I hope owners will start putting their sensor measurements and calibration thoughts in the calibration thread linked in the top post of this thread.

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Last edited by Bytehoven; 10-15-2017 at 12:35 AM.
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post #527 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Aztar... in you convergence pattern, what do the far left and right grid lines look like?
The grid on mine is uniform all around, perfect convergence from edge to edge.

Byte, from reading reports on these units, you're right, the only thing I can fault mine for is some excessive video noise at times depending on the source; and that just may come, like you said, as a price of such a perfect lens. But Eshift 5 is nice and tame. Other than that, I can't find any other fault with these, at least on mine --NONE.

Byte, are you liking E5, and how about the contrast on these things? I'm sure you have no complaint's there. I mean, for me, my X750 was incredible, but this new one flat out demolishes it in overall contrast (what the heck)! So I can't wait for Javs to measure, because I wouldn't be surprised if it even measured more than spec'd on paper.
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post #528 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I happened to see the JVC x9900 in action this weekend, at the TAVES show in Toronto. JVC had done a nice job of entirely blacking out a small room. It was projecting some eye-candy nature in UHD/HDR. I'd have guessed the screen to be 110" 16:9 or so, but the JVC guy said it was 136", which I couldn't wrap my head around because it sure didn't look that big. The footage looked quite nice, extremely vivid and I could see HDR doing it's thing for sure. When trying to evaluate the image quality I felt I had to compensate for the added screen noise by what I thought was an ALR screen (JVC has used Elunevision ALR screens before and I've found them to be extremely "noisy" screens in terms of dirty/sparkly screen texture. To my surprise when I asked the screen type I was told it was actually a pure white, 1.0 gain screen! Looking off axis, yes it seemed to the case. Hence the "noise" I was attributing to the screen was actually in the image. It wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't smooth. I have no idea of the picture settings of course so it's pretty useless information. But since I saw it....

Either way, in low lamp the 9900 was plenty bright and easily pulling off HDR on a fairly large 1.0 gain screen, which was impressive.
I bet my pants it was set to "Enhance 5" that is how they come out of the factory.

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post #529 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 01:57 AM
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As for observations and complaints I am on the same page as Aztar and Bytehoven, when I first got my 9500 I had the same feelings of awe especially because of the sharpness and contrast, anyone not appreciating this really should not be getting this PJ at all. Since the 9500 and 9900 are not much different I imagine it is the same sort of quality they are seeing now, the guys who know me here know how often I swap projectors yet this is the first one I've been happy with and if the LTD wasn't on the horizon I'd perfectly content with for a while yet, quite simply there is nothing out there that comes close in the price range and above full stop. I've had a chance to test the Sony 5000ES and the Z1 too and while they are in a different league they are certainly not multiple times better as the price suggests. Anyone saying they are not happy with sharpness etc they either need to put the PJ up in classified for grabs or visit the optometrist IMO (I wonder what their observations are based on in comparison or what their settings are)
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post #530 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 02:12 AM
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Yeah just a note on "sharpness"..

The user who purchased my X9500 from me is absolutely "over the moon" with it. He is awed by 2 main aspects...CONTRAST and SHARPNESS..

He had auditioned several PJ,s prior to buying my X9500, including the "Native 4K " Sony,s..... the earlier 1100ES and the 550/675ES ... He is blown away by the image of the X9500 and so glad he took the plunge and purchased my X9500.

It was so good to hear his feedback regarding this.........i DO miss the X9500, but i imagine when my 20LTD arrives i will have a similar level of excitement and appreciation of the image produced by the 20LTD..
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post #531 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
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if the LTD wasn't on the horizon I'd perfectly content

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Yeah just a note on "sharpness"..

i DO miss the X9500, but i imagine when my 20LTD arrives i will have a similar level of excitement and appreciation of the image produced by the 20LTD..
Hopefully you'll both have those soon. I'm looking forward to hearing how you will compare them to your 9500s.
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post #532 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 06:16 AM
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Anxiously waiting for Javs to complete his in-depth eshift4 vs eshift5 comparison. That will help me resolve my RS-420 vs RS-440 dilemma ...

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post #533 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 06:57 AM
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Working on upgrading RS1 and would like to get an rs 640. May be some time but want to know now. I have a Stewart Luxus Deluxe 47" x 83.75" (96 Diagonal), 16:9, Studiotek 130 fabric. My projector is 14 feet 9 inches back. Room is totally light controlled. With the new x990 am I going to have any problems with this screen, maximizing the projector?

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post #534 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 08:13 AM
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Working on upgrading RS1 and would like to get an rs 640. May be some time but want to know now. I have a Stewart Luxus Deluxe 47" x 83.75" (96 Diaganol), Studiotek 130 fabric. My projector is 14 feet 9 inches back. With the new x990 am I going to have any problems with this screen, maximizing the projector?
I am in a similar situation upgrading from a RS-15 (11' wide 1:1 screen). Considering a 590 v 790 or 990 in a completely light controlled room. Will there be a material difference between these units for me considering I'm pretty happy with the current RS15 despite the purple band failure and no 4k.

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post #535 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 08:39 AM
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Looking to Demo a newer JVC - Sarasota or Tampa, FL

I am just about sold on the JVC RS5040 but can't not seem to find a place to demo one. Anyone in the surrounding area that has a JVC with e-shift that would not mind giving a fellow forum member a demonstration?

I am a long time member of the local audio groups but don't know anyone with any of these projectors. I am in Sarasota, Fl.

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post #536 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night i watched transformers, the last knight in hdx on vudu. I also did some extensive viewing of gaurdians v2. I also used the lightspeed setups for hd and hdr. Michel Bay must losing his mind with all of the aspect changes in transformers.

Watch transformers last night, I tried the THX setup at contrast +10, brightness -10, manual iris -6. The presentation was outstanding. It was so good, I watched the whole film before I started some basic calibrations. I would note the natural picture mode was also very good with just some contrast and brightness tweaks. I had watched these with the INPUT grayscale set to standard. I also played with a custom 2.4 gamma which was looking pretty good.

When it came dialing in HDR, I built on what I learned on the 520. I used Ted's Lightspeed disc to set up the st2084 gamma. I left the main contrast and brightness both set 0. I switched to INPUT grayscale to enhanced mode. Then I went into the st2084 gamma. To get the Lightspeed patterns right for 16/256

Contrast = 0
Brightness =5
Picture Tone = 0
Dark Level = 5
Bright Level = -5

I loaded guardians v2, and just like on the 520, these st2084 calibrations with the lightspeed disc gave me a very washed image. And just like on the 520 I made additional changes to st2084 curve watching the movie.

I used the clouds in opening scene to dial in picture tone and bright level, and then used some of the highlights later in the monster fight near the beginning. The lower end did not have as many issues as the upper end. Here were my settings that made the movie look awesome thru out without any crush on the upper or lower end.

Contrast = 0
Brightness = 0
Picture Tone = 13
Dark Level = 5
Bright Level = -3

Now these setting do crush on the Lightspeed disc, but not on Guardians v2. The image was very bright without loss of high contrast detail and a good dark low end with good shadow detail. Once i get the spyder5, I will measure both of these adjustments to see how they track.

Regarding the washed image after letting up with lightspeed disc, I'm wondering if using what that disc is the problem. I'm waiting on my download of the diversified files and try tweaking st2084 again.

I also took some time to check out the high bright mode. While it does offer a boost in lumen output, it does so with a significant green shift across the grayscale. I 1st thought maybe it was just color saturation, but it's more. I tried adjusting the gain green -15 and offset green -15. And while this appeared to balance the colors on the planet scene on quill's dad's planet, when I check a grayscale ramp, it was very red through out.

Not sure what can be done to get back to 6500k range with high bright mode. When I get my spyder5 sensor, I'll give the bais and gain settings another try. I also wonder about the color management and how that might be able to address the color shift. Although when gain and offset tweaks were adjusted to make HDR and High Bright similar in the appearance of collor, nearly all of the extra lumens were lost.

I have a couple of questions...

How do you all set the Input Signal Input Level? Standard or Enhanced? Enhanced definitely lets me grayscale range better, but is using the enhanced setting a mistake?

I'm curious if anyone has tried vudu 4k UHD HDR movies yet? How do they compare to HDX?

My concern, the UHD HDR version will require more compression, and while some additional resolution will be present, what artifacts might extra compression do to the rest of the image? I'm curious is anyone has made this comparison.
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post #537 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 09:44 AM
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Last night i watched transformers, the last knight in hdx on vudu. I also did some extensive viewing of gaurdians v2. I also used the lightspeed setups for hd and hdr. Michel Bay must losing his mind with all of the aspect changes in transformers.

Watch transformers, I tried the thx setup at contrast +10/brightness -10/manual iris -6. The presentation was outstanding. It was so good, I watched the whole film before started some basic calibrations. I would note the natural picture mode was also very good with just some contrast and brightness tweaks. I had watched these with the grayscale set to standard. I also played with a custom 2.4 gamma which was looking pretty good.

When it came dialing in hdr, I built on what I learned on the 520. I used lightspeed disc to set up the st208r gamma. I left the main contrast and brightness set 0. I switched to grayscale to enhanced mode. Then I went into the st2084 gamma. I ended up with picture tone 2, dark level 5, bright level -3, to get the lightspeed brightness and contrast patterns dialed in. These numbers ended up being a little different than the 520. Not sure why.

I loaded guardians v2, and just like on the 520, this st2084 calibration with lightspeed gave me a very washed image. And just like on the 520 I made additional changes to st2084. I used the clouds in opening scene to dial in picture tone and bright level. My new setting ended up with picture tone 13, dark level 4, bright level -5. These settings made a world of difference. I have no idea how this gamma curve is actaully tracking, but the image was very bright without lose of high contrast detail in guardians v2, with lots of contrast range and a good dark low end with good shadow detail. Once i get the spyder5, will measure hiiw these adjustments track, and I will explore trying to a 2.4 gamma curve.

Regarding the washed image after letting up with lightspeed disc, I'm wondering if using what disc is the problem. I will down load the diversified files and try calibrating st2084 again.

I also took some time to check out the hdr bright mode. You will notice, while it does offer a boost in lumen output, it is doing so with a significant green shift. I 1st thought maybe it was just color saturation, but it's more. I tried adjusting the bias green -15 and offset green -15. And while improve the appearance of colors on the planet scene quills dad's planet, when I check a grayscale ramp, it was very red through out. So I'm not sure if the bias and gain controls can be used to correct the color shift caused by hdr bright mode. But i will give it another try once i get spyder5 in house. Maybe playing with cms can also correct fir the. Green shift, although the buy as and fain tweak kinda showed once corrected for color, much of the lumen boost was lost. Not sure if cms tweaks would dobbthe same thing.

That's it for now. More calibrating to, but tonight's movie session was very rewarding.

I'm curious if anyone has tried a vudu 4k hdr movie yet? How do they compare to hdx?
woow those settings look a little extreme to me, interesting.

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post #538 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 09:55 AM
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Last night i watched transformers, the last knight in hdx on vudu.
'
Watch transformers, I tried the thx setup at contrast +10/brightness -10/manual iris -6.


I also took some time to check out the hdr bright mode. You will notice, while it does offer a boost in lumen output, it is doing so with a significant green shift.
I saw the movie at a commercial theater. SPOILER ALERT: The story elements, I thought, were all over the place. Mixing medieval times themes with robotic alien beings and inserting a teenage heroine into the plot for no good reason, especially when there was an adult one already. I thought T4 was better done.


Glad you found good settings, but on mine, unfortunately, those settings clip white and crush black.

HDR, no filter, does not have a green push on mine.
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post #539 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 09:58 AM
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About 6 months or so away from finishing a media room in my basement. I am still on the fence on projector vs 75"+ TV (I can fit about a 100-106" screen max in the room, it is not a big space). Projector will likely be mounted about 2' behind the seating position. I plan on watching a lot of HDR on the projector and the concern I have is the whine I have heard discussed while in e-Shift/HDR mode. For almost the past year I have been watching HDR content on a Samsung KS8000 HDTV which is one of the brightest HDR TV's out there. I suspect I will be watching HDR in higher lamp mode setting with the JVC and am concerned about noise coming from the projector since it will be mounted close to the main seating and my ceilings are not that tall.



Would love to hear from people who have JVC e-Shift projectors now and how loud the HDR viewing is in high lamp mode. If folks have actual decibel level measurements in HDR high lamp vs standard 1080p viewing in normal lamp settings I would love to understand what I am dealing with.



I am fairly sensitive to noise while watching movies so this is a big concern and something I need to factor in now as I am building out the room (projecter vs non).


My projector is fairly close to my seating position and my eshift noise is very annoying. It’s so loud that I can hear it with my headphones on when playing Xbox.


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post #540 of 12700 Old 10-15-2017, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Last night i watched transformers, the last knight in hdx on vudu.
'
Watch transformers, I tried the thx setup at contrast +10/brightness -10/manual iris -6.


I also took some time to check out the hdr bright mode. You will notice, while it does offer a boost in lumen output, it is doing so with a significant green shift.
I saw the movie at a commercial theater. SPOILER ALERT: The story elements, I thought, were all over the place. Mixing medieval times themes with robotic alien beings and inserting a teenage heroine into the plot for no good reason, especially when there was an adult one already. I thought T4 was better done.


Glad you found good settings, but on mine, unfortunately, those settings clip white and crush black.

HDR, no filter, does not have a green push on mine.
What do you mean by no filter? Hdr color instead of bt2020, of hdr bright mode?

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