Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 09:50 AM
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The RS has a gold trim ring, and the X has a silver (IIRC) one. That's the only difference, they're just sold through different channels/dealers.
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post #32 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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Will you guys be doing your own calibration using the software provided by JVC and buying the Datacolor Spyder 5 Elite or Pro?

I'm just curious if I should buy the Spyder, do the calibration myself and then just sell the Spyder afterwards. Not sure what kind of market there is for it.
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post #33 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:23 AM
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If you're going to do it yourself, you'll want to keep the Spyder as you want to run touchup calibrations periodically.
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post #34 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
If you're going to do it yourself, you'll want to keep the Spyder as you want to run touchup calibrations periodically.
That makes sense. I guess it's just hard to justify the price and only keeping it for tweaks here and there.

What do people here do? Self-calibration mostly? What does it cost for a professional calibration these days? Probably very hard to find a professional calibrator in Canada, but, who knows...
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post #35 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Will you guys be doing your own calibration using the software provided by JVC and buying the Datacolor Spyder 5 Elite or Pro?

I'm just curious if I should buy the Spyder, do the calibration myself and then just sell the Spyder afterwards. Not sure what kind of market there is for it.
I have not decided yet. I am planning to schedule a Chad visit next time he's on a middle atlantic USA loop. The question is what to do after?

I have been watching for good deal on a x rite i1 pro 2, otherwise I'd probably get the spyder5pro, unless there is another probe that will work. The issue with the spyder is grayscale errors ( color push). I have been watching to see if anyone has found a fix or method to get better accuracy out of the jvc auto cal + spyder process. Seems like a waste of $$$ and effort if you need to confirm with an alternate calibration method.
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post #36 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:49 AM
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If you need all the light just to be happy with SDR, you're going to have a tough time with HDR.
How much more headroom do you think I would need for HDR? 50% more for example?

Before I didn't have a velvet black pit, so that should help some too. First row will be sitting ~9.5' from the screen, so it's basically going to be 8' wide, or 9' 2.0 aspect ratio. Just worried 8' will be too small, and 9' will be too dim! lol
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post #37 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 11:07 AM
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How much more headroom do you think I would need for HDR? 50% more for example?

Before I didn't have a velvet black pit, so that should help some too. First row will be sitting ~9.5' from the screen, so it's basically going to be 8' wide, or 9' 2.0 aspect ratio. Just worried 8' will be too small, and 9' will be too dim! lol
9' wide is fine if it's a StudioTek 130 !
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post #38 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 11:27 AM
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9' wide is fine if it's a StudioTek 130 !
lol I know but I can't stand any sparklies or texture.

I just realized with my previous projector (HW50es) I was watching at 26 ftL(!) with a new bulb on low (only a 92" screen). So I will go with 8' , that will also get me to 26ftL.

Has anyone ever successfully built a hush box for the JVC projectors? I would love to copy the design if so.
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post #39 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 12:19 PM
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lol I know but I can't stand any sparklies or texture.

I just realized with my previous projector (HW50es) I was watching at 26 ftL(!) with a new bulb on low (only a 92" screen). So I will go with 8' , that will also get me to 26ftL.

Has anyone ever successfully built a hush box for the JVC projectors? I would love to copy the design if so.
You pay your money, and you pick your poison. I don't see sparklies watching 4K UHD Blu-rays at even 38 foot lamberts on my ST 130. But maybe that's just me.
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post #40 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I have been watching for good deal on a x rite i1 pro 2, otherwise I'd probably get the spyder5pro, unless there is another probe that will work. The issue with the spyder is grayscale errors ( color push). I have been watching to see if anyone has found a fix or method to get better accuracy out of the jvc auto cal + spyder process. Seems like a waste of $$$ and effort if you need to confirm with an alternate calibration method.
The problem with the i1 Pro is that it doesn't have very good low light handling. I thought I read someone tried running autocal with Pro and the results weren't great.

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How much more headroom do you think I would need for HDR? 50% more for example?
I think I'm somewhere between 50% and 100% higher, I run about 16fL for SDR and I think I'm close to 30 for HDR.
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post #41 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 12:34 PM
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The problem with the i1 Pro is that it doesn't have very good low light handling. I thought I read someone tried running autocal with Pro and the results weren't great.



I think I'm somewhere between 50% and 100% higher, I run about 16fL for SDR and I think I'm close to 30 for HDR.
I'm at 18.5fl for SDR ( perfect ! ) and 38fl for HDR ( could be brighter ). I could go brighter still running in high laser.
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post #42 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 12:58 PM
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Ok, funny that I pre-ordered last month but was expecting it much later. What a nice surprise!
Anyway, I'm hoping to post my first impressions of my X990 tonight.
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post #43 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 01:36 PM
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Ok, funny that I pre-ordered last month but was expecting it much later. What a nice surprise!
Anyway, I'm hoping to post my first impressions of my X990 tonight.
Awesome. I can't wait to hear your impressions. I just finally gave in and pulled the trigger on the X990 myself today. I was originally going to do the 770 but my dealer made me a deal I couldn't refuse on the 990 so down the rabbit hole I went. It's the most I've ever spent on a projector so this thing better give a back massage along with the movie lol.

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post #44 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 01:58 PM
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post #45 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 02:19 PM
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My x790 should be here in a couple of days but I haven't decided on a screen size. What is the minimum ftL you guys would consider optimum for HDR? If I go with a 9' wide matte white 1.0 gain screen, based on the x7500's calibrated measurements, I would be getting about 23 ftL (78 nits) with the projector on low. That's usually how I like to watch SDR at, so I'm not sure if that would be ok for HDR.

It will be in a light controlled room, with velvet on walls.

Thanks,
Mike
Generally speaking you want to be at least 30ftL for HDR. For the RS540, with my 122'' 1.2 gain SI screen (it's scope) and 14'5'' throw, running in high lamp, I expect to get around 35ftL with the color filter and 41-42 without. Depends on the calibrated lumens in the end.

That is a lot for SDR (I will almost certainly be using low lamp for it) but barely crosses the threshold for HDR, at least in PJ terms.

I can tell you from experience anything around 20 ftL is going to look way too dim for HDR, for certain. Basically if you can't realistically get close to 30 ftL with your setup you should look into metadata stripping for HDR.

Someone correct me if I am off here, of course.
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post #46 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 06:58 PM
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Of course the X990 is as expected, fantastic. Finally, a display that isn’t a science project but ready to go OTB.

Well, I hope this helps someone as these are my non-technical observations so far:

1)Super bright on a 125 inch Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 gain, in low lamp mode (didn’t measure but best guess is high lamp easily achieves 2000 Lumens, and then some maybe on a new lamp).

2)Text looks razor sharp (in fact everything looks that way as explained below).

3) Convergence/panel alignment is perfect – I mean single-chip DLP perfect. My X750 was great in this area, but this is ridiculous. I’ll say when I first turned it on and looked at the white, pixel shift grid, I did at first see about a 1/8 of a pixel of red fringing in the upper horizontal quadrants, but that was a light emitting aberration and not an alignment issue. I used pixel adjust to try to move the fine pixel red line down but another red line appeared past the white line while the initial red 1/8 pixel red fringing stayed where it was, meaning what I saw was more akin to very mild CA (but this lens is incredible as you’ll see below). I left panel alignment off given convergence was perfect anyway and after the projector warmed up, I re-checked the grid, and this time the red fringing was gone.

4) Bright Corners: On a dark/blank screen, there was absolutely no BC, at least on mine.

5) Sync times seem quicker than on my X750 (not measured)

6) OTB Rec. 709 and DCI-P3average Delta E (have the meter and software, but not measured yet)

7) Eshift5. With it doing the scaling for 1080P source material, it produced a very clean, smooth image. A good test of this feature, however, would be feeding the PJ UHD, but I didn’t have time to try, including HDR.

8) Contrast. I didn’t have time to measure contrast. But I can tell you it’s a very evident improvement over the X750; put it this way, on a blank screen, I had the iris set at -10 (low lamp) and had difficulty discerning my own shadow over the darkened screen. The contrast has been upgraded to mind-blowing!

9) Dynamic Iris. It’s smoother than from what I remember on my X750. I set it to Auto 1 as this gave me a sharper appearance to the picture and never once did I see any pumping.

10) Firing up a few blurays using the PJ’s OTB settings, (except for Auto 1 iris setting with the iris down to -4 and 2.3 gamma) with Natural color and Eshift5 doing the scaling. Many things impressed me comparing to my X750. The first, improved processing: I noticed how “liquidy” smooth and clean the images were. The other thing that struck me was the detail. What a lens!!! I know, it sounds so cliché, but really, I watched a familiar clip and saw things I never saw or noticed on other displays. Shadow detail is outstanding on the X990! And skin tones look natural.

EDIT: I had the opportunity to try some UHD Discs. They looked super detailed with excellent pixel resolution. However, with some UHD material, there was a little more video noise apparent than when compared with the bluray counterpart of the same material (using the same MPC settings).

To sum it up, this projector is the best I've ever owned and seen in operation. Although I haven't seen them all (including the new 4K JVC and Sony lasers), I've seen quite a bit.
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Last edited by Aztar35; 10-08-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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post #47 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 07:29 PM
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Of course the X990 is as expected, fantastic. Finally, a display that isn’t a science project but ready to go OTB.
Really hope I get a good sample like you clearly did, congrats!

If you ever get a chance to use a PC desktop, would love to see what the 4K desktop environment looks like with no scaling i.e. size 8 1:1 pixel desktop test.

Something like the display properties window close up pic would be awesome, just to see if the text has improved as promised. I will deep dive into this stuff myself in a week or two.

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post #48 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 08:14 PM
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FedEx is delivering my x790 tomorrow. I'll be gone half the day so I hope I don't miss the carrier. I have to sign for it. Knowing my luck, I'll have to wait till Monday! No reason to be impatient though. I was prepared to wait till November.
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post #49 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Really hope I get a good sample like you clearly did, congrats!

I too am hoping this 1st batch of X990/790/590 series JV projectors are very well built, especially the 990. I recall someone saying traditionally, JVC QC of the 1st few batches of the 9xx are very well built since thay have stock piled some parts to meet initial demand. Got my fingers crossed.
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post #50 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 08:36 PM
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Really hope I get a good sample like you clearly did, congrats!

If you ever get a chance to use a PC desktop, would love to see what the 4K desktop environment looks like with no scaling i.e. size 8 1:1 pixel desktop test.

Something like the display properties window close up pic would be awesome, just to see if the text has improved as promised. I will deep dive into this stuff myself in a week or two.

Thanks, Javs, and thanks all. I wish you all the best with your RSx40s andXx90s too. The odds are good you'll get a good sample with the 9 series.

I'll check into the 4k desktop environment, but by others will have theirs today/tomorrow will probably add more.

I'm kinda glad I didn't have time to do the measurements portion. I'm going to leave that to you as I think you'll do an admirable job with the shoot out.
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post #51 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 08:39 PM
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I too am hoping this 1st batch of X990/790/590 series JV projectors are very well built, especially the 990. I recall someone saying traditionally, JVC QC of the 1st few batches of the 9xx are very well built since thay have stock piled some parts to meet initial demand. Got my fingers crossed.
That's an interesting point.
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post #52 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 10:10 PM
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It's finally here - my X790!



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post #53 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 11:04 PM
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I too am hoping this 1st batch of X990/790/590 series JV projectors are very well built, especially the 990. I recall someone saying traditionally, JVC QC of the 1st few batches of the 9xx are very well built since thay have stock piled some parts to meet initial demand. Got my fingers crossed.
Let's hope since this chassis has been around for a while, that the component manufacture as well as assembly of the projector is at such a mature stage, that every projector will meet all the specifications easily!

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post #54 of 12006 Old 10-06-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Of course the X990 is as expected, fantastic. Finally, a display that isn’t a science project but ready to go OTB.

Well, I hope this helps someone as these are my non-technical observations so far:
1)Super bright on a 125 inch Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 gain, in low lamp mode (didn’t measure but best guess is high lamp easily achieves 2000 Lumens, and then some maybe on a new lamp).

2)Text looks razor sharp (in fact everything looks that way as explained below).

3) Convergence/panel alignment is perfect – I mean single-chip DLP perfect. My X750 was great in this area, but this is ridiculous. I’ll say when I first turned it on and looked at the white, pixel shift grid, I did at first see about a 1/8 of a pixel of red fringing in the upper horizontal quadrants, but that was a light emitting aberration and not an alignment issue. I used pixel adjust to try to move the fine pixel red line down but another red line appeared past the white line while the initial red 1/8 pixel red fringing stayed where it was, meaning what I saw was more akin to very mild CA (but this lens is incredible as you’ll see below). I left panel alignment off given convergence was perfect anyway and after the projector warmed up, I re-checked the grid, and this time the red fringing was gone.

4) Bright Corners: On a dark/blank screen, there was absolutely no BC, at least on mine.

5) Sync times seem quicker than on my X750 (not measured)

6) OTB Rec. 709 and DCI-P3average Delta E (have the meter and software, but not measured yet)

7) Eshift5. With it doing the scaling for 1080P source material, it produced a very clean, smooth image. A good test of this feature, however, would be feeding the PJ UHD, but I didn’t have time to try, including HDR.

8) Contrast. I didn’t have time to measure contrast. But I can tell you it’s a very evident improvement over the X750; put it this way, on a blank screen, I had the iris set at -10 (low lamp) and had difficulty discerning my own shadow over the darkened screen. The contrast has been upgraded to mind-blowing!

9) Dynamic Iris. It’s smoother than from what I remember on my X750. I set it to Auto 1 as this gave me a sharper appearance to the picture and never once did I see any pumping.

10) Firing up a few blurays using the PJ’s OTB settings, (except for Auto 1 iris setting with the iris down to -4 and 2.3 gamma) with Natural color and Eshift5 doing the scaling. Many things impressed me comparing to my X750. The first, improved processing: I noticed how “liquidy” smooth and clean the images were. The other thing that struck me was the detail. What a lens!!! I know, it sounds so cliché, but really, I watched a familiar clip and saw things I never saw or noticed on other displays. Shadow detail is outstanding on the X990! And skin tones look natural.

My first impressions are that this projector is the best I've ever owned and seen in operation (although I haven't seen them all, including the new JVC and Sony lasers, I've seen quite a bit).
Congrats! Can you report back on eShift noise please? Find a scene with some close up on faces that's where I find it usually evident, also please let us know how you find the new HDR modes especially the one without the filter in place.
Also a 4K desktop test would be much appreciated even is you just hook up a laptop or anything.

Good to hear you are in fact sensing the difference in the step up from the 7 to 9 series.

Happy testing!
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post #55 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 02:48 AM
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The problem with the i1 Pro is that it doesn't have very good low light handling. I thought I read someone tried running autocal with Pro and the results weren't great.
Doesn't the JVC auto-cal place the meter at close range, facing the projector? In that config, it should be very bright so maybe within the limits of an i1pro2? I guess the trick will be not to exceed the upper range of the meter while still being bright enough for the lower range. What is the dynamic range (max/min nits) of that meter?
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post #56 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's hope since this chassis has been around for a while, that the component manufacture as well as assembly of the projector is at such a mature stage, that every projector will meet all the specifications easily!
Someone said they also have had new manufacturing sources for the lens and optical block, which I believe resulted in the increase in QC, that made the 20LTD possible.
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post #57 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 03:30 AM
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Someone said they also have had new manufacturing sources for the lens and optical block, which I believe resulted in the increase in QC, that made the 20LTD possible.

That's good news, all around for all the models. Looks like the customers of the new models are in for a visual treat. How good would it be if some x9900 owners got close to the LTD spec!

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post #58 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 03:35 AM
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Someone said they also have had new manufacturing sources for the lens and optical block, which I believe resulted in the increase in QC, that made the 20LTD possible.


Source?

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post #59 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 03:37 AM
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Doesn't the JVC auto-cal place the meter at close range, facing the projector? In that config, it should be very bright so maybe within the limits of an i1pro2? I guess the trick will be not to exceed the upper range of the meter while still being bright enough for the lower range. What is the dynamic range (max/min nits) of that meter?


That meter needs to be pointed at the screen for autocal to work. I think it maxes out at a couple thousand nits or so.

One good way to do it would be to zoom the screen really small so its plenty bright and the danger of really low near black readings are lessened.

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post #60 of 12006 Old 10-07-2017, 05:08 AM
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You can't attach the diffuser with the i1Pro2 and point at the lens?
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