Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 288 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8611 of 12782 Old 09-16-2018, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If the preset 2.4 measures lower than that, it indicates that your projector has developed a gamma droop...
I just got it and it only has 30 hours on the bulb. Out of the box everything but the gamut is pretty bad. Even the black level was off by quite a bit.

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post #8612 of 12782 Old 09-16-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NetViper View Post
Do you do any gaming on it? If so, how does it compare to 5040?


I do, actually quite a bit, i dont do hdr when gaming as I dont think its quite there yet, but sdr + 4k no difference in input lag when using low latency on, you will enjoy the JVC quite a lot more than the epson


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post #8613 of 12782 Old 09-16-2018, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
I just got it and it only has 30 hours on the bulb. Out of the box everything but the gamut is pretty bad. Even the black level was off by quite a bit.
The default colour profile is somewhat over-saturated. Apparently the custom profiles match Rec709, although I have not personally tested that.

In many cases the black level being off indicates a level mismatch between the projector and the source. It should not take more an one or two clicks for the Brightness control.
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post #8614 of 12782 Old 09-16-2018, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been so tied up in playing around with 4k and HDR, i ended watching a lot of HD over the weekend.

1st was all 8 episodes of The First on Hulu.

Then it was last jedi and infinity war again, but playing the 1080p BDs from the OPPO 203 -> x990 -> 115 2.35 1.0 gain screen.

OPPO source direct
4k eshift on
Color profile reference
Color 6500k
Gamma C
Manual iris (-9)
Low lamp

Wow! Outstanding combination of absolute black outs and exterior daytime scenes feeling really like daytime. And plenty of room to open the iris to compensate for lamp aging.

Yeah, 4k HDR is impressive, but there are things the x990 + 820 SDR 2020 just can't match, until its married to more lumens. How many more lumens? Cant say for sure, but maybe 3000 would get er done.

Anyway, the experience confirmed, i don't want to give up this level of contrast range, as it is just too compelling and something i have always wanted to experience someday..

Really looking forward to Chad's visit and pushing this x990 right the edge of perfection. Also looking forward to test driving some custom curves.

JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
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post #8615 of 12782 Old 09-16-2018, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The default colour profile is somewhat over-saturated. Apparently the custom profiles match Rec709, although I have not personally tested that.

In many cases the black level being off indicates a level mismatch between the projector and the source. It should not take more an one or two clicks for the Brightness control.
I have to set the brightness control at +13 to make bar 17 flash.

It clips white with all settings on auto but changing input level to Super White makes 234 and above flash.

I'm playing the patterns disc in an Oppo 103D with everything set to Auto.

It's pretty strange. I've never had such a hard time calibrating before.

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post #8616 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
I have to set the brightness control at +13 to make bar 17 flash.

It clips white with all settings on auto but changing input level to Super White makes 234 and above flash.

I'm playing the patterns disc in an Oppo 103D with everything set to Auto.

It's pretty strange. I've never had such a hard time calibrating before.
A couple of us had trouble on 4k HDR patterns that were not playing back correctly and causing us to overcompensate with +10 to +13 in brightness, and it was a problem with the playback, not the projector. As Dominic says, it should not have been that far off, especially on the 709 HD patterns.

Are the blacks crushed on actual content after you raise brightness so much to fit the test pattern? Do you have all the image adjustment features turned off when calibrating? Try another means of playing the patterns.

I also suspect you are not correctly selecting the 2.4 gamma correction as it should not be so far off, either. Maybe show us screen shots of the settings menu while in troublesome playback.
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post #8617 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
A couple of us had trouble on 4k HDR patterns that were not playing back correctly and causing us to overcompensate with +10 to +13 in brightness, and it was a problem with the playback, not the projector. As Dominic says, it should not have been that far off, especially on the 709 HD patterns.

Are the blacks crushed on actual content after you raise brightness so much to fit the test pattern? Do you have all the image adjustment features turned off when calibrating? Try another means of playing the patterns.

I also suspect you are not correctly selecting the 2.4 gamma correction as it should not be so far off, either. Maybe show us screen shots of the settings menu while in troublesome playback.

Thanks but this is all SDR and the THX preset (I tried others, same issue). I can't even set brightness and contracts without moving at least one a lot. I had given up on gamma calibration for now because all presets drooped and I couldn't get much over 2.0 with any. However, I'm now certain it is indeed some kind of levels mismatch that just didn't happen with previous displays. I'm going to figure out a different way of serving patterns. Content does actually look ok.

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post #8618 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I've been so tied up in playing around with 4k and HDR, i ended watching a lot of HD over the weekend.

1st was all 8 episodes of The First on Hulu.

Then it was last jedi and infinity war again, but playing the 1080p BDs from the OPPO 203 -> x990 -> 115 2.35 1.0 gain screen.

OPPO source direct
4k eshift on
Color profile reference
Color 6500k
Gamma C
Manual iris (-9)
Low lamp

Wow! Outstanding combination of absolute black outs and exterior daytime scenes feeling really like daytime. And plenty of room to open the iris to compensate for lamp aging.

Yeah, 4k HDR is impressive, but there are things the x990 + 820 SDR 2020 just can't match, until its married to more lumens. How many more lumens? Cant say for sure, but maybe 3000 would get er done.

Anyway, the experience confirmed, i don't want to give up this level of contrast range, as it is just too compelling and something i have always wanted to experience someday..

Really looking forward to Chad's visit and pushing this x990 right the edge of perfection. Also looking forward to test driving some custom curves.
Byte, could you tell me why you choose reference color? That puts the color filter in to place, right? I'm trying to understand what that accomplishes for rec709, which I thought was 100% covered without the filter. I have plenty of light to spare on SDR if there is indeed some advantage to using the filter. Just looking to hear what those benefits would be. Also, why source direct? Is Oppo scaling to 4k or outputting 1080p?

Thanks!
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post #8619 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Byte, could you tell me why you choose reference color? That puts the color filter in to place, right? I'm trying to understand what that accomplishes for rec709, which I thought was 100% covered without the filter. I have plenty of light to spare on SDR if there is indeed some advantage to using the filter. Just looking to hear what those benefits would be. Also, why source direct? Is Oppo scaling to 4k or outputting 1080p? Thanks!
I prefer the color tracking and saturation of reference. If you pause on a colorful scene and switch between the various color profile option, which do you prefer? I also believe the name reference means the color accuracy better tracks 709.

I have read the reference profile is very good, good enough to require calibration. Next month w h en Chad visits, I'll see if this is true.

Regarding source direct, having the 203 scale to 4k, only to have the x990 convert back to 1080p and then process and scale back to eshift 4k (not real 4k), seems like an extra step that could introduce unwanted artifacts. I also like to have the option to run 2k with hd material. Running source direct also preserves my denon 2300 ability to display various menus on screen.

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post #8620 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I prefer the color tracking and saturation of reference. If you pause on a colorful scene and switch between the various color profile option, which do you prefer? I also believe the name reference means the color accuracy better tracks 709.

I have read the reference profile is very good, good enough to require calibration. Next month w h en Chad visits, I'll see if this is true.

Regarding source direct, having the 203 scale to 4k, only to have the x990 convert back to 1080p and then process and scale back to eshift 4k (not real 4k), seems like an extra step that could introduce unwanted artifacts. I also like to have the option to run 2k with hd material. Running source direct also preserves my denon 2300 ability to display various menus on screen.
Why would the projector convert a 4k input to 1080p?
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post #8621 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 12:13 PM
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Do most of you use Auto 1 or Auto 2 for your iris setting?

Used to be that everybody used Auto 2, but I sense a shift to Auto 1. I'm curious why.

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post #8622 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Why would the projector convert a 4k input to 1080p?
Thats my understanding how it works. The eshift process computes thevveshift offset from an 1080 images, using tgge surrounding pixels. When the source is 4k, it has to remap 4k pixels to the eshift number of pixels.

Computing the eshift from native 4k pixels is one thing. Computing eshift from an upscaling of a 2k sources would be computing of the 4k version of OPPOs bet guess of a 4k image. Seems like an extra step that just adds more guessing. Feeding an up scaled 4k image to a native 4k panel? Sure. Feeding an upscaled 4k image to a lower res eshift panel? Hmmmm...

I need to test with a 1080p brown fox pattern.

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post #8623 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:08 PM
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I've spent a number of hours consuming this thread/some other calibration threads/some Madvr threads.. Here's what I've gathered - please let me know if I'm off base..


For calibration: Spyder 5 is a bad idea - use i1Display Pro instead.


Other users that have set up a 3D LUT - are they using i1Display Pro? Or is there another, better option out there?


Are there any tips for using i1Display Pro?


Thanks for the help!
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post #8624 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thedudexxi View Post
I've spent a number of hours consuming this thread/some other calibration threads/some Madvr threads.. Here's what I've gathered - please let me know if I'm off base..


For calibration: Spyder 5 is a bad idea - use i1Display Pro instead.


Other users that have set up a 3D LUT - are they using i1Display Pro? Or is there another, better option out there?


Are there any tips for using i1Display Pro?


Thanks for the help!
My understand is both the S5 and i1Dpro need to be profiled to be reliable. Then the next consideration is how long that profile will remain accurate and this is where the i1Dpro will last longer due to the structual design.

Chad will profile my S5 and then i will take steps to store the sensor to help delay any negative environmental effects.

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post #8625 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Thats my understanding how it works. The eshift process computes thevveshift offset from an 1080 images, using tgge surrounding pixels. When the source is 4k, it has to remap 4k pixels to the eshift number of pixels.

Computing the eshift from native 4k pixels is one thing. Computing eshift from an upscaling of a 2k sources would be computing of the 4k version of OPPOs bet guess of a 4k image. Seems like an extra step that just adds more guessing. Feeding an up scaled 4k image to a native 4k panel? Sure. Feeding an upscaled 4k image to a lower res eshift panel? Hmmmm...

I need to test with a 1080p brown fox pattern.
That's where you are not quite right..

Feeding the JVC a 4k input signal (upscale your 2k blurays externally) is far far better in terms of resolution and detail than feeding 1080p.

If you feed 1080p to the JVC turn off eshift because it's totally useless in that case.

The JVC legitimately has 50% more detail and resolution capability when fed a 4k input .

The oppo is a pretty good upscaler, the Panasonic even better.

Just turn off the sharpening with the oppo and you won't have problems. The Panasonic sharpening is very good in moderation
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post #8626 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:36 PM
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My understand is both the S5 and i1Dpro need to be profiled to be reliable. Then the next consideration is how long that profile will remain accurate and this is where the i1Dpro will last longer due to the structual design.

Chad will profile my S5 and then i will take steps to store the sensor to help delay any negative environmental effects.
I think I have read every post in this thread and have come to the conclusion that I am going to use your recommended cal settings and be done with it. If after a couple hundred hours I am not loving it I will go MADVR.

Just a couple questions with your recommended settings.

1) For SDR, which Gamma setting would you recommend if you prefer the brightest/most vivid (within reason) over more accurate?
2) Would keeping low latency mode on all the time mess with your settings?
3) Why you chose auto 1 vs auto 2 on the lens aperture?
4) For HDR, why you prefer the 3rd st2084 option, and once again, which would be the st2084 setting to yield the brightest pop in HDR?


Thanks in advance. You are truly an invaluable resource
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post #8627 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
My understand is both the S5 and i1Dpro need to be profiled to be reliable. Then the next consideration is how long that profile will remain accurate and this is where the i1Dpro will last longer due to the structual design.

Chad will profile my S5 and then i will take steps to store the sensor to help delay any negative environmental effects.
I wasn't able to get my i1 pro to be detected by JVC autocal. Maybe didn't try hard enough? My work flow is to use a Spyder 5 with autocal, then switch to my recently calibrated i1 and adjust greyscale and gamut tracking.
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post #8628 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:39 PM
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That's where you are not quite right..

Feeding the JVC a 4k input signal (upscale your 2k blurays externally) is far far better in terms of resolution and detail than feeding 1080p.

If you feed 1080p to the JVC turn off eshift because it's totally useless in that case.

The JVC legitimately has 50% more detail and resolution capability when fed a 4k input .

The oppo is a pretty good upscaler, the Panasonic even better.

Just turn off the sharpening with the oppo and you won't have problems. The Panasonic sharpening is very good in moderation
Would you recommend having my Denon 6400 do the upscaling? If so what Should I then set the 4k to on my JVC?
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post #8629 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 02:44 PM
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Would you recommend having my Denon 6400 do the upscaling? If so what Should I then set the 4k to on my JVC?
Nope. Avr upscaling is horrendous.



What player are you using?

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post #8630 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 03:06 PM
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I wasn't able to get my i1 pro to be detected by JVC autocal. Maybe didn't try hard enough? My work flow is to use a Spyder 5 with autocal, then switch to my recently calibrated i1 and adjust greyscale and gamut tracking.
Assuming you’re referring to the i1Pro spectro:
It’s not listed by JVC as a supported meter, but when I tried it autocal identifies it as an i1Pro2 which is supported.
The trick is to start with a meter self-calibration, which autocal does do but it does not prompt the user. You have to place the meter on its calibration tile when clicking on the icon, then move it to the measuring position after autocal detects that it’s been calibrated.
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post #8631 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 03:08 PM
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Nope. Avr upscaling is horrendous.



What player are you using?
movies will be from my HTPC through KODI. No MADVR setup yet (looks daunting). PC has a 1050ti.

Videogames and the very rare physical media movie will be theough my xbox one x.
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movies will be from my HTPC through KODI. No MADVR setup yet (looks daunting). PC has a 1050ti.

Videogames and the very rare physical media movie will be theough my xbox one x.
I use Kodi too, though MadVR is running the video, its a fork of Kodi called DSPlayer.

You should have a look at using Kodi for the upscaling. The built in upscaling there would be better than an AVR. But not as good as the external players available and not as good as MadVR. You dont really have the horsepower in a GPU to use MadVR to its full potential but you may have some luck using it with lower settings. I would still look into it if I were you.

You can get DSPlayer here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/aa08gh...Player-x86.exe

And I have my MadVR settings in my sig. You could try that, but anywhere it says NGU, try something like Jinc instead. Might work for you.

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post #8633 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 03:30 PM
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I use Kodi too, though MadVR is running the video, its a fork of Kodi called DSPlayer.

You should have a look at using Kodi for the upscaling. The built in upscaling there would be better than an AVR. But not as good as the external players available and not as good as MadVR. You dont really have the horsepower in a GPU to use MadVR to its full potential but you may have some luck using it with lower settings. I would still look into it if I were you.

You can get DSPlayer here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/aa08gh...Player-x86.exe

And I have my MadVR settings in my sig. You could try that, but anywhere it says NGU, try something like Jinc instead. Might work for you.
awesome...thanks! Would I be better off with a 1060? I know I would a 1080ti would be even better but if 1050ti-1060 is a leap I could make the change.
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post #8634 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 03:41 PM
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awesome...thanks! Would I be better off with a 1060? I know I would a 1080ti would be even better but if 1050ti-1060 is a leap I could make the change.
Not sure, you would have to look at benchmarks.

GFLOPS is what you need.

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post #8635 of 12782 Old 09-17-2018, 04:01 PM
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Not sure, you would have to look at benchmarks.

GFLOPS is what you need.
Thanks, bud. Much appreciated
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post #8636 of 12782 Old 09-18-2018, 09:34 AM
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Hey all...I just got the projector up (790r) on the ceiling. When I feed it a 4k source it plays it in 1080 and when I manually switch resolution it goes to a blank screen then switches back to 1080. I tried to switch my resolution on my nvidia control panel to 3840 x 2160 but it keeps going blank and tells me that 1920 x 1080 is native. I then went to my xbox one x and it said "detected 4k signal but when I got to switch it over it gives me an error. I am thinking this may be an issue with the HDMI from my AVR to the projector but I would rather check everything else before I run that HDMI.

1) I ran this HDMI
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) from my 1050Ti
to my AVR (Denon 6300). My AVR is set to pass through. And my Projector is set to 4k e-shift on and graphic mode 4k.

2) Then I tried my XBOX ONE X. It immediately asked me if I wanted to switch to 4k but when I do it goes blank and says it isnt working.
- on the "4k tv info" on Xbox it says my display meets all requirements for HDR, 4K 60hz, etc. It just won't let me switch it.


Anything I am missing, guys?

Last edited by Mark Anderko; 09-18-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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post #8637 of 12782 Old 09-18-2018, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anderko View Post
Hey all...I just got the projector up (790r) on the ceiling. When I feed it a 4k source it plays it in 1080 and when I manually switch resolution it goes to a blank screen then switches back to 1080. I tried to switch my resolution on my nvidia control panel to 3840 x 2160 but it keeps going blank and tells me that 1920 x 1080 is native. I then went to my xbox one x and it said "detected 4k signal but when I got to switch it over it gives me an error. I am thinking this may be an issue with the HDMI from my AVR to the projector but I would rather check everything else before I run that HDMI.

1) I ran this HDMI
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) from my 1050Ti
to my AVR (Denon 6300). My AVR is set to pass through. And my Projector is set to 4k e-shift on and graphic mode 4k.

2) Then I tried my XBOX ONE X. It immediately asked me if I wanted to switch to 4k but when I do it goes blank and says it isnt working.
- on the "4k tv info" on Xbox it says my display meets all requirements for HDR, 4K 60hz, etc. It just won't let me switch it.


Anything I am missing, guys?
I bet it’s the cable from your AVR to your projector. This sounds like what’s happened to me (even with certified premium cables) that are just a bit too long. FWIW I plan to switch my HDMI over Ethernet balun (which is good for 10.2Gbps) to an active fiber optic HDMI cable once I need 18Gbps so I feel your pain.
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post #8638 of 12782 Old 09-18-2018, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
I bet it’s the cable from your AVR to your projector. This sounds like what’s happened to me (even with certified premium cables) that are just a bit too long. FWIW I plan to switch my HDMI over Ethernet balun (which is good for 10.2Gbps) to an active fiber optic HDMI cable once I need 18Gbps so I feel your pain.
It 100% was. Got a new one and fixed it immediately. Thanks for the reply!

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post #8639 of 12782 Old 09-18-2018, 02:26 PM
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probably a dumb question. What should the color profile for HDR picture mode set to? HDR or BT.2020? I am using Javs Custom curves for Gamma.
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post #8640 of 12782 Old 09-18-2018, 02:35 PM
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probably a dumb question. What should the color profile for HDR picture mode set to? HDR or BT.2020? I am using Javs Custom curves for Gamma.
BT2020 for the full WCG

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