Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Source?
Hi Javs... the source was here on AVS and it was in one of the JVC threads. I'm thinking it might have been Mike, but I'd have to go back and look to confirm. But if it wasn't Mike, it was a regular we might consider reliable.
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post #62 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
You can't attach the diffuser with the i1Pro2 and point at the lens?


Perhaps, but the Autocal instructions specifically state to use that meter pointed st the screen.

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post #63 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:10 AM
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errrr, I'm still not really sure which PJ to buy next. I originally decided on a JVC because I have a large screen at 135" vs the 285ES, but after hearing about it having a not that great ANSI contrast I'm doubting again. Isn't ANSI contrast the entire purpose of having good contrast? I thought that lowering the black level floor, the color and detail would pop out more -> The ANSI contrast rises. But now I understand that it just makes the entire picture more dim?

What is exactly the advantage of having a lower black floor, is it really just to make sure you're not seeing a color difference between the image and the black around it? Or is it, as I expected, to make color and high brightness elements on the screen pop more?

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post #64 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:16 AM
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JVC DLA -RS540/X790/x7900 - RS640/X990/x9900 - 20LTD Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
errrr, I'm still not really sure which PJ to buy next. I originally decided on a JVC because I have a large screen at 135" vs the 285ES, but after hearing about it having a not that great ANSI contrast I'm doubting again. Isn't ANSI contrast the entire purpose of having good contrast? I thought that lowering the black level floor, the color and detail would pop out more -> The ANSI contrast rises. But now I understand that it just makes the entire picture more dim?



What is exactly the advantage of having a lower black floor, is it really just to make sure you're not seeing a color difference between the image and the black around it? Or is it, as I expected, to make color and high brightness elements on the screen pop more?


How much velvet have you got lining your ceiling, walls etc?

You would be lucky even with the above treatments to have a real in room ansi contrast response above 250:1 even if you had a projector that had 1500:1 ANSI contrast.

On/off contrast is actually really important because its gives the near black and low apl content considerable image depth. The JVC is in no way short on image depth and pop.

The higher ANSI sonys get obliterated in contrast by the JVC’s up to about 5% APL and above and then just barely pull ahead up to thier native ansi response.

You would be surprised how bright 5.9% APL is too.



And another,

11.4% ADL


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post #65 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:40 AM
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@Javs

So basically what you're saying is. The amount of light a projector produces is already enough to mess up ANSI contrast more by just bouncing around? Meaning having a better ANSI contrast on a Sony is meaningless?

Also, when you say the on/off contrast being high is good, you mean to enhance the amount of detail in low brightness scenes?

You're using a lot of technical wordings so I'm trying to understand correctly.
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post #66 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Of course the X990 is as expected, fantastic. Finally, a display that isn’t a science project but ready to go OTB.
That is awesome to hear. I can't wait to get my 990. My theater is still a couple months away from being finished but I had to jump on the first wave. I hope I get as good a sample as you did. Fingers crossed.

I really wanted to move to a laser and was leaning pretty hard towards the LS10500, and even second guessed my choice after placing my order for the JVC; but your initial impressions have really solidified my decision to stick with JVC.

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post #67 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Doesn't the JVC auto-cal place the meter at close range, facing the projector? In that config, it should be very bright so maybe within the limits of an i1pro2? I guess the trick will be not to exceed the upper range of the meter while still being bright enough for the lower range. What is the dynamic range (max/min nits) of that meter?
The problem is dynamic range, I don't think the Pro has enough dynamic range to measure these projectors. If you put them such that they don't saturate at white, black is too dark for them to measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
errrr, I'm still not really sure which PJ to buy next. I originally decided on a JVC because I have a large screen at 135" vs the 285ES, but after hearing about it having a not that great ANSI contrast I'm doubting again. Isn't ANSI contrast the entire purpose of having good contrast?
The ANSI contrast pattern is just one specific example of contrast, and it is a very extreme example, and not a very good proxy for real world content. ANSI measures the contrast of an image with an ADL of 50%, average motion picture content is about 10%.
http://hometheaterhifi.com/technical...splay-devices/

If ANSI was all that's important, we'd all be using DLPs still.

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I thought that lowering the black level floor, the color and detail would pop out more ->
This is true of contrast in general. But again, ANSI is not a good proxy for real world content.

Quote:
The ANSI contrast rises. But now I understand that it just makes the entire picture more dim?
I'm not sure what you mean, as the overall luminance of the image increases, the amount of "stray" light (both within the projector's light engine, and bouncing around the room) increases as well, and this stray light raises the black level (as well as the white level but that's basically irrelevant). This means contrast decreases as overall luminance increases.

Quote:
What is exactly the advantage of having a lower black floor, is it really just to make sure you're not seeing a color difference between the image and the black around it? Or is it, as I expected, to make color and high brightness elements on the screen pop more?
You're right about low black floor making everything look better, it's just that the ANSI contrast test isn't a good approximation for motion picture content.
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post #68 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 12:20 PM
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That is awesome to hear. I can't wait to get my 990. My theater is still a couple months away from being finished but I had to jump on the first wave. I hope I get as good a sample as you did. Fingers crossed.

I really wanted to move to a laser and was leaning pretty hard towards the LS10500, and even second guessed my choice after placing my order for the JVC; but your initial impressions have really solidified my decision to stick with JVC.
I went from the Epson laser to JVC territory, not a single moment of regret even though I do love the LS it's a great machine.

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post #69 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 12:31 PM
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I went from the Epson laser to JVC territory, not a single moment of regret even though I do love the LS it's a great machine.
What was the reason behind your move from the Epson to the JVC?

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #70 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 12:53 PM
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My X990 is arriving today, however my room is nowhere near complete unfortunately and I currently have no screen.

I am going to use a 135" EPV Peregrine eFinity ISF screen (1.25 gain) and my throw distance is going to be about 15-16ft...am I going to be hosed for HDR brightness? I can't find a single review on this screen but it's been recommended to me by a couple folks now, including the dealer.

It's worth mentioning this is my FIRST ever projector setup and I am feeling way in over my head trying to get it all setup. I don't even know where to start with calibration but I am interested in trying to calibrate myself with the Spyder method but it seems thoughts are conflicted on whether this is going to work.

Also, since I am new to this, what things should I check for right out of the box once I am able to power up the projector and have a screen onto which to project, to ensure I got a defect free unit?

Thanks!
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post #71 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 01:10 PM
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What was the reason behind your move from the Epson to the JVC?
Upgraditis.
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post #72 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 01:20 PM
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Alright the X990 just showed up.

The styrofoam inside the box was broken but the projector cosmetically seems just fine, however when I powered it up and the image shifted over to the blue "blank screen", the projector emits a low buzzing type sound, is this normal for these? I am slightly concerned if so only because the projector will be mounted directly over the viewing location on the ceiling.
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post #73 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post
Alright the X990 just showed up.

The styrofoam inside the box was broken but the projector cosmetically seems just fine, however when I powered it up and the image shifted over to the blue "blank screen", the projector emits a low buzzing type sound, is this normal for these? I am slightly concerned if so only because the projector will be mounted directly over the viewing location on the ceiling.
The noise is eshift its normal.

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post #74 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 01:41 PM
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The noise is eshift its normal.
The acoustical noise generated by the eshift mechanism varies from unit to unit. Most have reported it as insignificant, too low to hear. A, very few, have reported it being quite irritatingly loud.

In the two RS620's I very briefly had, the first was almost inaudible - very much lower than the low power / low fan speed noise. The second was just slightly higher than the fan noise in low power mode.

The noise from the second was 'just barely' loud enough that I would have been turning e-shift off for 1080p content so as to not have it present.

As it turns out, for other reasons, I'm now waiting for an RS640. (And hoping for the best for all those aspects which slightly differ between one unit and another for the one I'll end up with.)
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post #75 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post
Alright the X990 just showed up.

The styrofoam inside the box was broken but the projector cosmetically seems just fine, however when I powered it up and the image shifted over to the blue "blank screen", the projector emits a low buzzing type sound, is this normal for these? I am slightly concerned if so only because the projector will be mounted directly over the viewing location on the ceiling.
Have you sent a signal to the projector to assure you get a proper image? Like others, the "low buzz" is the eshift.
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post #76 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 03:32 PM
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Have you sent a signal to the projector to assure you get a proper image? Like others, the "low buzz" is the eshift.
Yep, all is good...and get this, after an hour or so the buzz has completely disappeared, so that's a win.

Shot a picture at the wall and hooked it to the Xbox One S for some quick testing, all seems good, couple of questions:

1) How do you enable the low latency mode? Couldn't find it in the menus and all the projector came with was a near-useless "quick start guide"

2) At the extreme right side of the picture, there seems to be "line" which is brighter than the rest of the image (it still displays whatever is being show, it's not like a solid color line), is this normal or can it be adjusted? Note that I'm projecting about 5 feet from the wall from the top of the box so it's not really a good test but I did notice it.

3) I am in Lakewood CO at about 5,500 ft...I noticed there is a high altitude mode but especially in lamp high (HDR mode) it's EXCEPTIONALLY loud...literally I could not use the projector in this configuration (ceiling mount right about the couch) if I have to use this...thoughts? From some searching it looks like if I don't use it I'm going to be flirting with disaster? Or can I just run without it, try and keep the basement cool and air flowing around the projector, and see whether I get shutdowns?
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post #77 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post
Yep, all is good...and get this, after an hour or so the buzz has completely disappeared, so that's a win.

Shot a picture at the wall and hooked it to the Xbox One S for some quick testing, all seems good, couple of questions:

1) How do you enable the low latency mode? Couldn't find it in the menus and all the projector came with was a near-useless "quick start guide"

2) At the extreme right side of the picture, there seems to be "line" which is brighter than the rest of the image (it still displays whatever is being show, it's not like a solid color line), is this normal or can it be adjusted? Note that I'm projecting about 5 feet from the wall from the top of the box so it's not really a good test but I did notice it.

3) I am in Lakewood CO at about 5,500 ft...I noticed there is a high altitude mode but especially in lamp high (HDR mode) it's EXCEPTIONALLY loud...literally I could not use the projector in this configuration (ceiling mount right about the couch) if I have to use this...thoughts? From some searching it looks like if I don't use it I'm going to be flirting with disaster? Or can I just run without it, try and keep the basement cool and air flowing around the projector, and see whether I get shutdowns?
1. In the blur reduction menu.

2. Grab a white piece of paper, walk up to the lens, hit HIDE on the remote, hold the paper up close to the lens so it catches the whole projected area onto the piece of paper, it should show very clearly what is going on, take a photo of this if you can and show us, If you see a thick vertical line here when the HIDE button has been pressed, and it shows up visually, then by my accounts you have what is called a DOA unit and you need it swapped... It happens.

3. Keep the room cool and you are probably ok... the projector will actually ramp the fan up itself if it gets particularly hot, if you notice it do this (you will realise low lamp sounds a little louder than you remember) then you may need to consider adding extra cooling or using that mode. I agree that high altitude mode is insanely loud.

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post #78 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
1. In the blur reduction menu.

2. Grab a white piece of paper, walk up to the lens, hit HIDE on the remote, hold the paper up close to the lens so it catches the whole projected area onto the piece of paper, it should show very clearly what is going on, take a photo of this if you can and show us, If you see a thick vertical line here when the HIDE button has been pressed, and it shows up visually, then by my accounts you have what is called a DOA unit and you need it swapped... It happens.

3. Keep the room cool and you are probably ok... the projector will actually ramp the fan up itself if it gets particularly hot, if you notice it do this (you will realise low lamp sounds a little louder than you remember) then you may need to consider adding extra cooling or using that mode. I agree that high altitude mode is insanely loud.
Okay here are some pictures of both the "hide" picture (is it supposed to look like that? Seems very "bloomy"), and the bright line issue on the edge of the visible image. I am going to hook up the Oppo BDP-103 and see if for some reason this is related to the Xbox as the source, too.

The strange thing about the bright line is that it's appearing on the edge of the visible projected picture, but there appears to be additional black border to the right of the image.
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post #79 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:29 PM
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Upon further analysis, it line tends to show up as green, but only in bright scenes...it's pretty much invisible when it's dark. The Oppo exhibits the same problem with 1080p content. Did I get a borked unit?

Also tried a different HDMI cable, same result. Interestingly it doesn't show up on the blue background of the "idle/no signal" screen that the projector puts out when there's no input signal.
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post #80 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post
Upon further analysis, it line tends to show up as green, but only in bright scenes...it's pretty much invisible when it's dark. The Oppo exhibits the same problem with 1080p content. Did I get a borked unit?
Could your panel just be out of alignment? I know on the Sony's you can align the red/blu/green panels (never owned a JVC but I assume you can do the same). Maybe the green is just out of alignment to the right and maybe you can fix it with the remote by aligning the panels?
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post #81 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:33 PM
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Could your panel just be out of alignment? I know on the Sony's you can align the red/blu/green panels (never owned a JVC but I assume you can do the same). Maybe the green is just out of alignment to the right?
I have no idea if you can do this on the JVC or not?

It's worth noting that while the neither the outer nor inner shipping boxes had any damage, the broken internal styrofoam does suggest that the projector must have experience a shock of some kind at some point in the shipping process?
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post #82 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:51 PM
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Okay here are some pictures of both the "hide" picture (is it supposed to look like that? Seems very "bloomy"), and the bright line issue on the edge of the visible image. I am going to hook up the Oppo BDP-103 and see if for some reason this is related to the Xbox as the source, too.



The strange thing about the bright line is that it's appearing on the edge of the visible projected picture, but there appears to be additional black border to the right of the image.


I have that same dark bar across the bottom of mine. That green line on the right is panel alignment I think, tweak that in the menu. But I would be sending it back due to the bar on the bottom.

Mine is going in to have light engine replaced, and thats one of the reasons why.

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post #83 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I have that same dark bar across the bottom of mine. That green line on the right is panel alignment I think, tweak that in the menu. But I would be sending it back due to the bar on the bottom.

Mine is going in to have light engine replaced, and thats one of the reasons why.
Great...well this would be in line with literally everything in this new house having something wrong with it and needing replacement or repair right out of the gate.

Also, I did a bunch of tweaking in the pixel adjustment (what I guess would be called convergence) screen and still the bright line seems to persist in 4K/HDR content at least...it did seem to diminish somewhat on the Oppo/1080p content after adjustment.

I'll contact the vendor and see what needs to be done. Rather just have the unit replaced rather than have to have JVC rip into a brand new projector.
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post #84 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 05:25 PM
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Yep, all is good...and get this, after an hour or so the buzz has completely disappeared, so that's a win.

Shot a picture at the wall and hooked it to the Xbox One S for some quick testing, all seems good, couple of questions:

1) How do you enable the low latency mode? Couldn't find it in the menus and all the projector came with was a near-useless "quick start guide"

2) At the extreme right side of the picture, there seems to be "line" which is brighter than the rest of the image (it still displays whatever is being show, it's not like a solid color line), is this normal or can it be adjusted? Note that I'm projecting about 5 feet from the wall from the top of the box so it's not really a good test but I did notice it.

3) I am in Lakewood CO at about 5,500 ft...I noticed there is a high altitude mode but especially in lamp high (HDR mode) it's EXCEPTIONALLY loud...literally I could not use the projector in this configuration (ceiling mount right about the couch) if I have to use this...thoughts? From some searching it looks like if I don't use it I'm going to be flirting with disaster? Or can I just run without it, try and keep the basement cool and air flowing around the projector, and see whether I get shutdowns?
I'm just across town from you in Denver at Evans and Quebec. I've been using JVC projectors for almost 11 years now (since the RS1) and have NEVER used high altitude mode and I have never had an issue.
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post #85 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post
My X990 is arriving today, however my room is nowhere near complete unfortunately and I currently have no screen.

I am going to use a 135" EPV Peregrine eFinity ISF screen (1.25 gain) and my throw distance is going to be about 15-16ft...am I going to be hosed for HDR brightness? I can't find a single review on this screen but it's been recommended to me by a couple folks now, including the dealer.
You didn't say if your screen is academy or scope (widescreen) however I'm going to assume you meant the former as it's far more common.

That puts you at about 61 sq ft, rounded off, of total screen area.

Quick and dirty/back of napkin calcs: Assume after basic calibration, using the no-filter HDR color mode on the PJ, and at a 15 ft throw, you get 1600 lumens. There are other factors like if you use DI, manual iris, etc. but let's not overly complicate this back of the napkin calculation for the moment. 1600 is probably best case if previous models are any guide.

1600/61=26.2 ftL x 1.25 (screen gain) = 32.75 ftL. In theory you'd be over the threshold for decent PJ HDR. However you're on the edge and a lot of factors can affect it:

Is the screen truly 1.25 gain (in practice many screens don't quite meet the same gain they are advertised at).

The real-world lumens you actually get when everything is mounted. 15 ft sounds like close the minimum throw you'd need to fill a 135'' 16x9 screen so you wouldn't be at the max telephoto end, which is good, but what your calibrated brightness comes out to is tbd. If it's 1500 (or 1700) it doesn't matter much but if you drop to 1200 you have HDR problems.

Whether you use the color filter or not for additional coverage. I believe it cuts lumens by 10% or so. The new JVCs have an HDR mode that uses it with and without - with that much screen to cover I'd say, without.

The x9900 has advertised lumens of 2100 however I don't know if the calibrated lumens folks are getting in the real world come close to that, with previous models they tended to drop a decent amount:

The previous gen, you would see around 1300-1400 in "HDR" or "Cinema" mode w/high lamp (you'll want to use high lamp for HDR content regardless). However the new JVCs have two new HDR modes, one with filter and one without, so I don't know what it comes out to. Hence I just assumed a baseline of 1600, without filter, in HDR mode since these are supposed to bit a bit brighter.

Bottom line is 135'' is a lot of screen to light up for HDR, though for SDR you'll be perfectly fine. You might be ok with HDR however if it looks a little "dim" consider stripping the metadata ala Oppo, Integral, etc. instead. Plenty of threads around the forums on that and sure to be many in the owners thread for these PJ models as well
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post #86 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:27 PM
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Okay here are some pictures of both the "hide" picture (is it supposed to look like that? Seems very "bloomy"), and the bright line issue on the edge of the visible image. I am going to hook up the Oppo BDP-103 and see if for some reason this is related to the Xbox as the source, too.

The strange thing about the bright line is that it's appearing on the edge of the visible projected picture, but there appears to be additional black border to the right of the image.
HMMM, Hopefully JVC,s quality control isnt heading in the wrong direction!
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post #87 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I have that same dark bar across the bottom of mine. That green line on the right is panel alignment I think, tweak that in the menu. But I would be sending it back due to the bar on the bottom.

Mine is going in to have light engine replaced, and thats one of the reasons why.
What's strange is that unless it's in "hide" mode, even with it 5 feet from the wall, I really can't see any evidence of those horrible purple/green blotches and bright edges, nor the darker "bar" across the bottom. What are we actually seeing when we do this test with the card right in front of the lens on "hide"?
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post #88 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:43 PM
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Image from my Loaned X5000/RS400 .......blurred i know , but try holding camera and paper while balancing on stool!!

When i did this test wth my now sold X9500...it DID NOT have the dark bar on the image.... so as @Javs has said....i would be asking for a replacement..
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post #89 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 06:50 PM
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Correction, I can definitely see the bright patch in the upper/middle right side of the screen on dark scenes. :/

No more updates until I hear whether this one is going back or not...
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post #90 of 11994 Old 10-07-2017, 07:01 PM
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HMMM, Hopefully JVC,s quality control isnt heading in the wrong direction!
This is nothing new though. There have been reports of bad top models since these were first introduced. Even the almighty hand picked model does not guarantee against some sort of issue.
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