Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 348 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10411 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txmetabaron View Post
My set up is Sony UBX700 to a marantz 7704 then Jtech HDMI wireless ( supports 4k/60Hz).
I have the basic settings
Low latency Off
Clear Motion Drive low
Motion enhance off
4k Eshift on
Graphic mode 4k
Enhance at 5
Smoothing and NR at 0
Screen adjust is off
Eco mode is off
Picture mode natural
Color profile standard
Color temp 6500k
Gamma normal
Contrast brightness color tint all 0
( yes it is not yet calibrated!)

Any suggestions appreciated
I dont see anything in there that would be the source of the issue describe. Howevere you might try...

4k off with a 1080 source
CMD off
Enhance 0

Does it still pump as you described.

What is your throw distance and screen size? Are you right the end of your shift or zoom movement?

I did have one time where my lens memory got stuck in a loop, going in and out of the final movement position. It would not stop. I had to pull the plug to reset and it never happened again. This was on the model that was replaced with my current x990.
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post #10412 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is comparison of the 9500 and 9900 courtesy of Javs. It is a closer look of an images he posted in the owners thread of the new models. There are differences that could make prefer one over the other. Let's get some feedback and i can then post which is which model, 9500 or 9900.


1a


1b


2a


2b

Last edited by Bytehoven; 02-16-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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post #10413 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Here is comparison of the 9500 and 9900 courtesy of Javs. It is a closer look of an images he posted in the owners thread of the new models. There are differences that could make prefer one over the other. Let's get some feedback and i can then post which is which model, 9500 or 9900.
I prefer b in both cases.
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post #10414 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Skyscraper. About...I dunno...30 seconds in? Opening panning shot across one vehicle.
I'm looking at this right now on my RS540. I can see as much or more detail in that scene using any of the 3 curves I currently have loaded (javs 100/1200nit, Dominic 135/4000nit, or my own curve that is actually targeted to 200nit).

Of course I do have 2x the brightness you do with a 106" HP screen, so maybe that's the difference. Although you would think my 200nit curve would be crushed out, but it's not.

As a reference, I did try MadVR with the same scene on my 4k TV and it does resolve a little more detail in the background than any curve on the JVC. Probably not that surprising since MadVR may be the best way to watch UHD titles right now.

The better example of this is around the 1:50 mark with the guy with a blue striped tie. His jacket isn't very visible on my JVC, but it shows up really well with MadVR. Maybe I'll do some fiddling to see if I can get the JVC closer.
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post #10415 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I prefer b in both cases.


B is the x90 vs A being the x70 series. I remember that discussion and people were saying they didn’t like the “softer” e shift


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post #10416 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tswire View Post
B is the x90 vs A being the x70 series. I remember that discussion and people were saying they didn’t like the “softer” e shift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To be more definitive, one would also need to have another comparison done with e-shift turned off.
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post #10417 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:38 AM
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If you move a reasonable distance away from these images (given they are extreme close crops) it looks like the major difference observable is the lack of detail in the top of the flower in 2b. It is hard to discern much difference from a distance in 1a or b - b perhaps a little softer.
Assuming that flower detail is strong in the original you'd have to say 2a is better. It depends really on how strong that detail is. It could be being artificially enhanced in 2a.
Really you'd want to evaluate the crops of the image off screen alongside the original, viewed at sensible distance, to see which is the more faithful rendition.
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post #10418 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It is hard to discern much difference from a distance in 1a or b - b perhaps a little softer.
There’s a very clear difference in the letter M.
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post #10419 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BdoUK View Post
Man Rob talk about bad timing! I was at least able to enjoy a few months with my Chad B calibrated RS540 before my iris went bad.

I'm about 350 hours into my replacement and will likely be waiting until the middle of the year before Chad can get back out to calibrate my projector. Every time the iris engages I hold my breath that it won't fail.

JVC should give you a repair vs. replace option. I ended up taking the replacement because they were still going to charge me to ship my unit back and that was going to be very cost prohibitive. However with you in NoCal it might make more sense to get a repair if Chad was able to complete his calibration work.
Though I have not yet read the cal reports, ChadB said he was really pleased with the light output. My projector is a minimum throw distance and I have a 100" screen, so iris light control is important. Also, I have a theater design whereby I can choose between full light control or open up the room to the kitchen for parties, games, etc. Living with a fixed iris will be too restrictive, limiting me to either the low or high lamp setting while hurting resale value. My unit is only ~5 months old with ~100 hours.

I have been told that I have the option to either take an "advanced exchange" for a new unit or have mine repaired by JVC. I have decided on the repair route since I would likely be shipped a stock unit and again have to take my chances with either another iris problem or e-shift noise. Also, an iris repair/replacement could conceivably result in either a better part or installation since this appears to be a known issue. I am also speculating that I may be able to preserve or restore the ChadB calibration magic if I keep this projector. He was able to get most of the modes done, with exception of an HDR mode for a low lamp setting. I may be overly optimistic since a repair may also include testing and a factory reset but we shall see. Hopefully, since I am already in California I am hoping shipment is reasonable.
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post #10420 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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A = 9500.
B = 9900

Here are the source images from a greater distance.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57468506

For practical purposes, from a viewing distance, the differences may be indistinguishable. This includes comparison to a 4k panel on the new models, despite differences being apparent when pixel peeping.

From my seat, a very slight increase in apparent resolution, would not be worth a compromise in other aspects of image performance. My preference for our series, has been the contrast benefits, including the option to run in manual iris mode (dynamic iris off).

Last edited by Bytehoven; 01-20-2019 at 11:15 AM.
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post #10421 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
A = 9500.
B = 9900

Here are the source images from a greater distance.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57468506

For practical purposes, from a viewing distance, the differences may be indistinguishable. This includes comparison to a 4k panel on the new models, despite differences being apparent when pixel peeping.

From my seat, a very slight increase in apparent resolution, would not be worth a compromise in other aspects of image performance. My preference for our series, has been the contrast benefits, including the option to run in manual iris mode (dynamic iris off).
I am with you on having the iris in manual mode. I cannot stand the auto iris. People are clearly sensitive to very different things because I have had friends come over and I have showed them scenes that I can notice the iris pumping, and they don’t see it at all, even on repeated viewings

Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I'm looking at this right now on my RS540. I can see as much or more detail in that scene using any of the 3 curves I currently have loaded (javs 100/1200nit, Dominic 135/4000nit, or my own curve that is actually targeted to 200nit).

Of course I do have 2x the brightness you do with a 106" HP screen, so maybe that's the difference. Although you would think my 200nit curve would be crushed out, but it's not.

As a reference, I did try MadVR with the same scene on my 4k TV and it does resolve a little more detail in the background than any curve on the JVC. Probably not that surprising since MadVR may be the best way to watch UHD titles right now.

The better example of this is around the 1:50 mark with the guy with a blue striped tie. His jacket isn't very visible on my JVC, but it shows up really well with MadVR. Maybe I'll do some fiddling to see if I can get the JVC closer.

Yeah having a double brightness screen I’m sure helps. I’ll have to check out that guy with the blue striped tie. I can compare with my C7 OLED.
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post #10422 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There’s a very clear difference in the letter M.
Yes there’s definitely pros and cons to both. I found with my iPhone XS looking at this image up close that there noticeable differences. If I hold my phone at arm’s length, those differences diminish greatly. Viewing distance is key here.
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post #10423 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There’s a very clear difference in the letter M.
There might be when looking on screen in the photos here.
I was trying to approximate what i thought was the seating distance in the office when I was looking at it.
Now I'm home and I've put up the original on the screen on my own X7900 and I'm certain with my screen and eyesight any differences in those particular areas (top of the flower, letter M) are invisible from seating.
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post #10424 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:02 PM
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I just ordered a RS640. Should arrive this week. So I’m just reading up here.

Where do you obtain the custom curves people are using but are not making themselves? Do you put a file on a thumb drive and insert into the usb to load them from a menu?

Is there a primer or consolidated tip sheet for how best to set up the projector for varying input sources, screen sizes, etc?

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post #10425 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob_in_NorCal View Post

I have been told that I have the option to either take an "advanced exchange" for a new unit or have mine repaired by JVC. I have decided on the repair route since I would likely be shipped a stock unit and again have to take my chances with either another iris problem or e-shift noise. Also, an iris repair/replacement could conceivably result in either a better part or installation since this appears to be a known issue. I am also speculating that I may be able to preserve or restore the ChadB calibration magic if I keep this projector. He was able to get most of the modes done, with exception of an HDR mode for a low lamp setting. I may be overly optimistic since a repair may also include testing and a factory reset but we shall see. Hopefully, since I am already in California I am hoping shipment is reasonable.
I would say that you will be able to preserve, as most of the calibration seems to have been done

Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 01-20-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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post #10426 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob_in_NorCal View Post
Count me in as another "stuck iris" victim. ChadB is over today to calibrate my RS640. Iris first stuck at -14 or -15. He was able to get it back to 0 but it appears to be stuck there now. ChadB said that my iris was noisier than average. I only have 90 hours on the projector, and the calibration session has been a waste.
Do you mind providing the info like others have in the post and I'll re-publish the list with you added? I like keeping a morbid curiosity tally.

I think repair might well be a better option. Info has been thin on the ground as to what is wrong with them but there obviously is something up here. There have been one or two posts hinting at an improved part. I want to make sure these are all tracked so that if we start seeing futher failures we have a repository to say - hey, what gives - if we start getting the out-of-warranty run-around.

I received a replacement unit that was two months older that my first unit (still new in box) with brighter corners, and a bit quieter e-shi(f)t, slightly better convergence. So if you are otherwise happy a repair is perhaps a good option due to the natural variation in these units.

Re: your calibration - even if it were reset, if it is the same unit you can assume anything that was set up in the menus you could have copied down, and I'd imagine that you should probably even be able to restore your autcal setup if you have it from Chad. Assuming the iris settings he was able to get to work actually remain in more or less the same place after repair (not a given).

That is all assuming that for simplicity sake they don't actually replace the entire optical block when effecting this iris repair. in which case you might not be any better off ref: many of the inter-unit variances.
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post #10427 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DVDMike View Post
I just ordered a RS640. Should arrive this week. So I’m just reading up here.

Where do you obtain the custom curves people are using but are not making themselves? Do you put a file on a thumb drive and insert into the usb to load them from a menu?

Is there a primer or consolidated tip sheet for how best to set up the projector for varying input sources, screen sizes, etc?
You can start with Dreamliner’s Quick Guide here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...hread-164.html

There’s a dedicated thread on JVC calibration:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...500-rs600.html

The links in my signature may also be of interest to you.
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post #10428 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Skyscraper. About...I dunno...30 seconds in? Opening panning shot across one vehicle.
I tested with my settings and could see all the detail just fine. Thanks @Bytehoven for the great settings!
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post #10429 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I tested with my settings and could see all the detail just fine. Thanks @Bytehoven for the great settings!
Did it look different to my 85-nit, or similar? What settings?
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post #10430 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 03:08 PM
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I seem to have a problem. I decided to try MadVR on my RS540 for tone mapping HDR. There seems to be a dramatic difference in some scenes. I'm trying to determine if this is to be expected or something is set up wrong on the projector when it tone maps.

What I see the most is darker scenes are much more washed out when letting the projector do the tone mapping (raised black floor like when the brightness is set to high). Brightness is set correctly though. I'm certain of it as I've checked it more than once with the correct black clipping pattern.

I did the comparison both by just changing MadVR settings to either tone map or pass HDR to the display. I also compared it to playing the same scene with my Nvidia Shield I normally use. Same result either way.

Is this to be expected? Is MadVR that much better or is there something else wrong with my config? I've tried it with Javs V3 curve and one of Dominic's.

Right now I'm restoring my original init file from the autocal to see if that makes a difference.
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post #10431 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I seem to have a problem. I decided to try MadVR on my RS540 for tone mapping HDR. There seems to be a dramatic difference in some scenes. I'm trying to determine if this is to be expected or something is set up wrong on the projector when it tone maps.

What I see the most is darker scenes are much more washed out when letting the projector do the tone mapping (raised black floor like when the brightness is set to high). Brightness is set correctly though. I'm certain of it as I've checked it more than once with the correct black clipping pattern.

I did the comparison both by just changing MadVR settings to either tone map or pass HDR to the display. I also compared it to playing the same scene with my Nvidia Shield I normally use. Same result either way.

Is this to be expected? Is MadVR that much better or is there something else wrong with my config? I've tried it with Javs V3 curve and one of Dominic's.

Right now I'm restoring my original init file from the autocal to see if that makes a difference.
Talk to myself for a bit. LOL

Anyway, I figured this out. What I am seeing is a difference in how the auto iris works between SDR and HDR modes. When I'm using MadVR in Cinema, the auto 1 setting is much more aggressive with the gamma boost than when in HDR mode. Auto 1 and auto 2 look almost identical in HDR mode.

BTW, restoring my init didn't make any difference. I'm thinking this is normal and just by design for some reason. Along the same lines as the older models not even allowing the iris in HDR.

Anyone? Thoughts?
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post #10432 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Did it look different to my 85-nit, or similar? What settings?
Similar to your 85 nit curve.

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post #10433 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Similar to your 85 nit curve.

ST.2084
Picture Tone 9
Darkness 3
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Panasonic player set to HDR2020 with HDR Optimizer on.
Ahh, so there are some differences. I guess I don't know what HDR Optimizer does, either...
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post #10434 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Ahh, so there are some differences. I guess I don't know what HDR Optimizer does, either...
It’s a feature on the Panasonic 820 player that tone maps HDR.

Yes, there would be differences from my settings to your curve, but detailing is similar with no black crush.

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post #10435 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
It’s a feature on the Panasonic 820 player that tone maps HDR.

Yes, there would be differences from my settings to your curve, but detailing is similar with no black crush.
I'd have to see a screenshot.
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post #10436 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
I'd have to see a screenshot.
Here you go.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	2513704  

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post #10437 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 05:58 PM
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Here you go.
I figured as much. To me that looks like majorly elevated blacks, especially on my OLED phone. So it's hard to tell if your exposure was set correctly (looks like high ISO making the blacks look grey/grainy) when taking the picture etc etc. But thank you.
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post #10438 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 06:00 PM
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The picture is overexposed - used my iPhone which doesn’t take the best pics. The actual image does not have elevated blacks - it’s quite detailed and with rich blacks.

Routh Family Theater - My Dedicated Home Theater Build - 7.1.4 Atmos Setup
Seymour AV 100" Electronic Masking Screen - Klipsch RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II's, RS-52 II's, CDT-5650 II-C x 4 - PSA V3600I Sub
Marantz AV7704 with TK421 Modification - Panasonic UBD 820
Emotiva XPA -7 & XPA-5 - Sony XBR-75x940c with Ideal-Lume Panelight (Living Room)
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post #10439 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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The picture is overexposed - used my iPhone which doesn’t take the best pics. The actual image does not have elevated blacks - it’s quite detailed and with rich blacks.
Right, but I'm trying to get an idea of how yours looks compared to my images, which are "reasonably" accurate...
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post #10440 of 12676 Old 01-20-2019, 08:03 PM
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Right, but I'm trying to get an idea of how yours looks compared to my images, which are "reasonably" accurate...
I will retake one tomorrow with my Cannon DSLR.

Routh Family Theater - My Dedicated Home Theater Build - 7.1.4 Atmos Setup
Seymour AV 100" Electronic Masking Screen - Klipsch RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II's, RS-52 II's, CDT-5650 II-C x 4 - PSA V3600I Sub
Marantz AV7704 with TK421 Modification - Panasonic UBD 820
Emotiva XPA -7 & XPA-5 - Sony XBR-75x940c with Ideal-Lume Panelight (Living Room)
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