Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 382 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11431 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I can post my later on but it seems to me like your screen is just a big too big.. my screen is 125 in 1.1 and I use low lamp and I even close the iris some..

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Thanks, hope you do.

My screen is just a 122" 16x9 with the option of having the same image height in scope (2:35) material.

I wanted bigger but Stewart does not make them with cima neve.

3D looks way better on a big screen. Yesterday I played with the panasonic settings and when you set max brightness and contrast, it helps a lot.

JVC should have at least 3,000 real lumens in all models, especially now with HDR content and because a lot of customers want to get bigger screens (the purpose of having a pj imo)

Just my two cents

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post #11432 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
Is this your first experience with a 3D projector? Home 3D projection has the same problem that commercial theater has... image brightness. The JVC RS540 is better than the Sony HW30 I had but I also have to factor in its a newer bulb and therefore brighter. Active shutter systems will destroy your bright image. Its a tradeoff.

Im projecting onto a 120-in 16:9 screen. I would not go any bigger for 3D and HDR is hit/miss at this size too with a unity gain screen. Even with a high gain screen you're going to have other tradeoffs like hotspotting.

If you're used to 3D brightness with a flat planel, then you are never going to meet expectations with a supersized projector screen and a 1500 to 2000 lumens projector.
It´s my first 3D projector, but not my first experience watching one.

Going bigger than 120" for HDR is possible if you get lucky with the metadata. A few days ago I watched the new Kevin Costner film on Netflix at 153" and it looked awesome. "Triple Frontier" on the other hand looks too dark no matter what settings you choose.

I agree with you, projectors need way more lumens for 3D and HDR and big nice screens

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post #11433 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 04:27 PM
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Here u go no big deal settings but it works for me and my screen is 125 1.1 and my projector is 18 feet away from screen. I use low lamp.. hope it works..

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post #11434 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
Here u go no big deal settings but it works for me and my screen is 125 1.1 and my projector is 18 feet away from screen. I use low lamp.. hope it works..

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Hi, Is the custom gamma a curve you added to the projector? (I have no idea how to do that)

Thanks

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post #11435 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by movieloverAL View Post
Hi, Is the custom gamma a curve you added to the projector? (I have no idea how to do that)



Thanks
No custom curve it's super simple. Click on custom 1 and change correction value to your liking in my case its 2.0. That's it..

Color temp set it to refrence..

How far is your projector from screen

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post #11436 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 07:18 PM
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What is the input lag on the 790?

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post #11437 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
No custom curve it's super simple. Click on custom 1 and change correction value to your liking in my case its 2.0. That's it..

Color temp set it to refrence..

How far is your projector from screen

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There is no chance you are using the color filter and low lamp with 3d on that size. I am assuming you are sharing your SDR settings here, not 3d.
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post #11438 of 11832 Old 04-11-2019, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
What is the input lag on the 790?
I think around 38-42ms

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post #11439 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
There is no chance you are using the color filter and low lamp with 3d on that size. I am assuming you are sharing your SDR settings here, not 3d.
If I'm doing something wrong let me know. My screen is only 125 1.1...
I did not know I was using a filter, which one is the filter.. does reference have a filter?

Hdr and 3d always looks better on high lamp but I've never had the need. I even close the iris a bit.

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post #11440 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
For those of you fortunate enough to be calibrated by Chad B (like me) and have a Panny 820/420/9000, do you prefer to use Chad's HDR settings with the HDR2020 mode in your player, or do you prefer the SDR2020 in the player with an SDR2020 user setting in your projector as Kris Deering and others recommend for projectors?
What do you think? Thats all that matters

I talked with Chad about calibration VS just getting a Panasonic player for those who can not afford both, he had said that he would rather get a calibration done which makes sense and here is why.....When you do use the projector curves everything you watch is using these curves compared to using the curves on the player, the only time you will use the curves on the player is when you use the player.
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post #11441 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 06:57 AM
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What do you think? Thats all that matters

I talked with Chad about calibration VS just getting a Panasonic player for those who can not afford both, he had said that he would rather get a calibration done which makes sense and here is why.....When you do use the projector curves everything you watch is using these curves compared to using the curves on the player, the only time you will use the curves on the player is when you use the player.
But that was more or less my question. Of course I'm using Chad's curves for all sources, including blu ray in the Panasonic player. The question was, do I use his curves for UHD (HDR2020) or let the player do it (SDR2020)? The results aren't consistent. I like the SDR2020 solution for most discis, but there are others that look better with this HDR curves, such as Blade Runner 2049 and The Revenant.

One very meaningful benefit to the SDR2020 approach is that when I play Netflix in the ub820 player, my Vertex always chooses SDR2020 and displays a beautiful picture regardless if it's a 4K or 1080p source.

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post #11442 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 07:23 AM
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One very meaningful benefit to the SDR2020 approach is that when I play Netflix in the ub820 player, my Vertex always chooses SDR2020 and displays a beautiful picture regardless if it's a 4K or 1080p source.
According to this post Netflix may not work properly with SDR2020:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57883304
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post #11443 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
If I'm doing something wrong let me know. My screen is only 125 1.1...
I did not know I was using a filter, which one is the filter.. does reference have a filter?

Hdr and 3d always looks better on high lamp but I've never had the need. I even close the iris a bit.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Yes, reference uses the filter. I use it for 2d SDR since there is light to spare, but it is not ideal for 3d. Are you looking at your settings while you have 3d playing or are you looking at the 3d picture mode while in 2D? I am not sure they are the same thing. I use "natural" in 3d and it has different settings from my "natural" in 2d. I can't see how you would get a tolerable image with light clamped down as much as you describe. 3d is quite dim for me cranked all the way up. My screen is 125" wide scope, and I use an A-lens for increased light output, plus high lamp and zero iris, and 3d can still be quite dark.
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post #11444 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
According to this post Netflix may not work properly with SDR2020:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57883304
If I use the app in the ub820, it works perfectly. Uses 2020 color and upconverts everything to 4K on my JVC.

If I use any other source for the Netflix app, it does not work well at all. I have to use either SDR709 or HDR.

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post #11445 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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Yes, reference uses the filter. I use it for 2d SDR since there is light to spare, but it is not ideal for 3d. Are you looking at your settings while you have 3d playing or are you looking at the 3d picture mode while in 2D? I am not sure they are the same thing. I use "natural" in 3d and it has different settings from my "natural" in 2d. I can't see how you would get a tolerable image with light clamped down as much as you describe. 3d is quite dim for me cranked all the way up. My screen is 125" wide scope, and I use an A-lens for increased light output, plus high lamp and zero iris, and 3d can still be quite dark.
I created a new user and basically copied my natural 2 settings and renamed it 3D... This morning before i left i changed it from reference to Natural which is the way i had it before and it's better this way.. I'm glad you mentioned the filter thing because i always thought the filter was only when you use bt2020 for hdr...

Absolutely it can always be brighter but iv'e gotten used to it and I'm being conservative on the bulb which I shouldn't because a new bulb is pretty cheap..

One day I would like to get one of those lenses but they seem pretty freaking expensive... Question, with the lens besides gaining more light is there other benefits? Do you get a sharper image? What about the colors do they get washed out because now everything is brighter?
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I've asked this question in the NX5 thread, as I'm trying to gather some information on JVCs and make a decision.

Is there anybody here projecting on a 150" screen with an X790R? I've been hearing some conflicting reports and I'm trying to make a decision. Does this projector work well for 4K HDR & 3D on a 150" screen with 1.0 Gain?

Thanks.

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post #11447 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
One day I would like to get one of those lenses but they seem pretty freaking expensive... Question, with the lens besides gaining more light is there other benefits? Do you get a sharper image? What about the colors do they get washed out because now everything is brighter?
Glad to help on the filter. As for the lens, it is providing more light than without the lens at the same size, but that doesn't change the color balance. You'd have more headroom to clamp down the iris and get better shadow detail, though. If you are using a scope screen, which is the whole point, the reality is the 2.35 image is still dimmer than 16x9 at comparable settings, because it is larger, as you are stretching the image 33% bigger with the same amount of light. But that is better than the zoom method where you are going 33% larger in both horizontal and vertical directions, so you not only lose 25% to going wider, you lose another 25% to black bars. Its not additive, but multiplicative, so the end result in zooming is losing 44%, I think.
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post #11448 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
I've asked this question in the NX5 thread, as I'm trying to gather some information on JVCs and make a decision.

Is there anybody here projecting on a 150" screen with an X790R? I've been hearing some conflicting reports and I'm trying to make a decision. Does this projector work well for 4K HDR & 3D on a 150" screen with 1.0 Gain?

Thanks.
I have the X790 projected on a 100” screen and I can watch HDR with ease with the iris closed down to -3. I have a Studiotek 130 screen which has a gain of 1.3.

I don’t think there is any chance that the 790 will properly light up a 150” 1.0 gain screen for HDR and 3D.
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post #11449 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 11:29 AM
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I have the X790 projected on a 100” screen and I can watch HDR with ease with the iris closed down to -3. I have a Studiotek 130 screen which has a gain of 1.3.

I don’t think there is any chance that the 790 will properly light up a 150” 1.0 gain screen for HDR and 3D.
Thank you for your response. It is about what I'm being told by most folks I'm speaking with. I could potentially consider NX5, but I believe the lumens/brightness issue stays. I may have to, reluctantly, start considering an Epson 5050UB (not in the same class as JVC) but enough brightness for the HDR/3D needs.

Thank you.
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post #11450 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
I've asked this question in the NX5 thread, as I'm trying to gather some information on JVCs and make a decision.

Is there anybody here projecting on a 150" screen with an X790R? I've been hearing some conflicting reports and I'm trying to make a decision. Does this projector work well for 4K HDR & 3D on a 150" screen with 1.0 Gain?

Thanks.
Id say 120-125 inches diagonal is the max screen size id go with on that projector.

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Id say 120-125 inches diagonal is the max screen size id go with on that projector.
Thanks! Your input is valuable. I'm rethinking my decision to go with a JVC X790r now.
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post #11452 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
One day I would like to get one of those lenses but they seem pretty freaking expensive... Question, with the lens besides gaining more light is there other benefits? Do you get a sharper image? What about the colors do they get washed out because now everything is brighter?
As for resolution, it is more about reducing the screen door effect by reducing pixel size but technically, with an eShift, I believe you are getting more true resolution as well. That't doesn't necessarily equate to sharpness, though, as that is more about focus, right? A lens with astigmatism correction should be able to produce a picture as sharp as the primary lens.
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post #11453 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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Thank you for your response. It is about what I'm being told by most folks I'm speaking with. I could potentially consider NX5, but I believe the lumens/brightness issue stays. I may have to, reluctantly, start considering an Epson 5050UB (not in the same class as JVC) but enough brightness for the HDR/3D needs.

Thank you.
The 5050 is rated 100 lumen brighter than 5040, but I doubt there is any real difference if the light engine and chassis are the same. More importantly, I believe the JVC and Epson work out to the same brightness when calibrated. The only reason to prefer an Epson is price. The performance is not better in any real world measurements. The only way the Epson will be brighter is making compromises in the picture, which you could also do with the JVC, if you so preferred. It is easy to modify Gamma curves to your preference on the JVC.

I have a 153" 2.76:1 screen at probably .95 gain. I am usually watching at 2.4:1 ratio (136 inch diag), though, but I have watched La La Land at 2.55:1 (143" diag) in HDR many times, and it is spectacular. I use an anamorphic lens for ratios above 2.2.

150 inch 16x9 is quite large, though, and 3d at that size will be problematic with almost any home projector.
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post #11454 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
The 5050 is rated 100 lumen brighter than 5040, but I doubt there is any real difference if the light engine and chassis are the same. More importantly, I believe the JVC and Epson work out to the same brightness when calibrated. The only reason to prefer an Epson is price. The performance is not better in any real world measurements. The only way the Epson will be brighter is making compromises in the picture, which you could also do with the JVC, if you so preferred. It is easy to modify Gamma curves to your preference on the JVC.
Scott, thanks much for chiming in. I was kinda hoping you did.

Price is not the issue. I'm actually in a position that is unusual - I "want" to spend the money to get a JVC because I have always wanted a JVC and can easily afford one now. I'm on a waiting list with a forum sponsor to get the X790R. I'm dying to give my cash to him to get the JVC.

Unfortunately I started getting told left & right that JVC is not a good fit for my 150" Screen and that I should consider Epson or BenQ for the Lumens output. It is the only reason I started looking at options. Very reluctantly, I started considering Epson 5050UB.

To that end, heck, I'm was even looking at the more expensive NX5, just to get myself a JVC and avoid getting an Epson. But from what I gather (and still gathering), X790r might be better.

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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
I have a 153" 2.76:1 screen at probably .95 gain. I am usually watching at 2.4:1 ratio (136 inch diag), though, but I have watched La La Land at 2.55:1 (143" diag) in HDR many times, and it is spectacular. I use an anamorphic lens for ratios above 2.2.
This is using X790R? I'm not that well versed in some of the lingo you've used here so please bear with me, but I think what you mean by "2.4:1" is what we get when we have those Black Bars on top & bottom. That is usually the case with most of the content I watch. Some do fill up the whole screen with no bars though.

So you get a spectacular image with 4K HDR, with the Black Bars, on your screen size, with an X790R? If the answer is Yes, then I don't see any reason not to go for the JVC X790r.

I have no idea what "I use an anamorphic lens" means.

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150 inch 16x9 is quite large, though, and 3d at that size will be problematic with almost any home projector.
That I do agree with an understand, and don't expect any different. But the way I would put it is - I have been viewing 1080p 3D on the 150" Screen for the last 5 years using the Epson 5010. The 3D, Pop-out & Brightness has not been an issue for me. The terrible Crosstalk/Ghosting has. Would the X790R be "Worse" then Epson 5010? If not, I'm good with it.

Thanks much!

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post #11455 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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Talking bout 3D @mickey79 . I have the RS540 (X790R) and I have yet to see it ghost ever in the many titles ive watched on 3D. It looks stunning imo and I love it. My old Sony 40ES ghosted quite frequently and was much dimmer. I have a 125" diagonal screen and any bigger and I would start to need more light. HDR too. With both 3D and HDR I use high lamp and iris wide open. 2D I use low with iris at -6. So a screen the size of yours I think would need a brighter projector. Just my opinion going off my room and projector/screen.

Edit. Also I should add my screen is AT and 0,8 gain so it sucks up the light. Take that into consideration.

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Last edited by Reddig; 04-12-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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post #11456 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
Scott, thanks much for chiming in. I was kinda hoping you did.

Price is not the issue. I'm actually in a position that is unusual - I "want" to spend the money to get a JVC because I have always wanted a JVC and can easily afford one now. I'm on a waiting list with a forum sponsor to get the X790R. I'm dying to give my cash to him to get the JVC.

Unfortunately I started getting told left & right that JVC is not a good fit for my 150" Screen and that I should consider Epson or BenQ for the Lumens output. It is the only reason I started looking at options. Very reluctantly, I started considering Epson 5050UB.

To that end, heck, I'm was even looking at the more expensive NX5, just to get myself a JVC and avoid getting an Epson. But from what I gather (and still gathering), X790r might be better.



This is using X790R? I'm not that well versed in some of the lingo you've used here so please bear with me, but I think what you mean by "2.4:1" is what we get when we have those Black Bars on top & bottom. That is usually the case with most of the content I watch. Some do fill up the whole screen with no bars though.

So you get a spectacular image with 4K HDR, with the Black Bars, on your screen size, with an X790R? If the answer is Yes, then I don't see any reason not to go for the JVC X790r.
My screen is not the same shape as yours. I never have black bars top and bottom as I always zoom the image to 52.08 inches high, the height of my Constant Image Height screen. It maxes out at 12 feet wide at a ratio approximating Ultra Panavision 70, or 2.76:1 ratio. My 16x9 image is only about 106 inches diagonal, with black bars on left and right, so it's smaller than yours by quite a bit. The dimensions were a product of the materials available for a cheap test screen which turned out good enough to live with for a while.
Quote:
I have no idea what "I use an anamorphic lens" means.
This is not a great explanation, but it's a start: https://www.schneideroptics.com/proj...ma/History.pdf
In the display forum the last forum group is called 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat. You may find some of that informative.
Quote:
That I do agree with an understand, and don't expect any different. But the way I would put it is - I have been viewing 1080p 3D on the 150" Screen for the last 5 years using the Epson 5010. The 3D, Pop-out & Brightness has not been an issue for me. The terrible Crosstalk/Ghosting has. Would the X790R be "Worse" then Epson 5010? If not, I'm good with it.

Thanks much!

I think you would be happy with a 790 if you got one. I have the rs540, which is the same product. I have only seen crosstalk/ghosting on Edge of Tomorrow. No idea why, but I suspect the issue is the disc, not the projector/player. I would guess the only ones steering you to Epson/Beq are people selling this brands, or defending their own purchase, because if money is no object all the comparisons show even the entry JVC crushed them. The DLP BenQs are totally outmatched.


VERY LATE EDIT: discovered that the crosstalk I saw on Edge of Tomorrow was due to the projector not being warmed up. This issue was discussed and explained in June 2019 in this thread. Was able to watch this with no issue once warmed up, and even increased the crosstalk slider in settings all they way to 8 to make 3D much brighter!
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Last edited by ScottAvery; 06-06-2019 at 05:45 AM.
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post #11457 of 11832 Old 04-12-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
No custom curve it's super simple. Click on custom 1 and change correction value to your liking in my case its 2.0. That's it..

Color temp set it to refrence..

How far is your projector from screen

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* How far is your projector from screen *

Don´t remember the number but I think it is as near as possible for having both 2:35 and 16x9

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post #11458 of 11832 Old 04-13-2019, 08:18 AM
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Am I close with my settings for an rs540 and ub820? I have a 2.35 ratio 130 diagonal seymour av at screen unity gain. Light controlled room with the projector about 16 feet from the screen (close end of throw).

Projector:
Zoomed to fit 2.35 screen
Lamp high
2.4 gamma
Bt 2020
6500 color temp
Iris auto 2
Clear black low
Eshift 4k
All other settings 0

Ub820:
Basic luminescence lcd/projector
Sdr 2020
Hdr optimizer on
Dynamic range 4
Brightness -1
Tone curve white +2
Tone curve black +2
System gamma +4
Sharpness +1
Luma high +3
Luma low +3
Chroma +3
Edge correction +4
Block noise 1
Random noise 1
Mosquito noise 1
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post #11459 of 11832 Old 04-13-2019, 08:56 AM
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Jeff Meier calibrated my RS-540 last night and boy, what a difference! I had no idea how far off my HDR settings were! He calibrated HDR, SDR, and 3D and they all look stunning. We watched Venom on UHD and was simply amazed.

Anyone who is on the fence on hiring a professional calibrator, jump over! It’s well worth the money!
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post #11460 of 11832 Old 04-13-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
My screen is not the same shape as yours. I never have black bars top and bottom as I always zoom the image to 52.08 inches high, the height of my Constant Image Height screen. It maxes out at 12 feet wide at a ratio approximating Ultra Panavision 70, or 2.76:1 ratio. My 16x9 image is only about 106 inches diagonal, with black bars on left and right, so it's smaller than yours by quite a bit. The dimensions were a product of the materials available for a cheap test screen which turned out good enough to live with for a while.

This is not a great explanation, but it's a start: https://www.schneideroptics.com/proj...ma/History.pdf
In the display forum the last forum group is called 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat. You may find some of that informative.



I think you would be happy with a 790 if you got one. I have the rs540, which is the same product. I have only seen crosstalk/ghosting on Edge of Tomorrow. No idea why, but I suspect the issue is the disc, not the projector/player. I would guess the only ones steering you to Epson/Beq are people selling this brands, or defending their own purchase, because if money is no object all the comparisons show even the entry JVC crushed them. The DLP BenQs are totally outmatched.
I'll take my chances with the X790R at this point. I think you surmised most of what I was looking for. If the Lumens output is a really noticeable problem, then I'll consider returns and other options, but I think it's worth the effort.

Thanks for all your help!
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