Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 414 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12391 of 13981 Old 10-09-2019, 07:37 PM
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It’s a common misconception that the movie must be captured to the HDD to play through madVR.

It’s also possible to play a movie on a disc in madVR without ripping, with some other software on the HTPC.

You need the same disc drive capable of ripping the movie to the HDD and also a software called RedFox AnyDVD HD which performs the real-time decryption of the disc.

With AnyDVD HD running you are able to open the disc video in a madVR capable video player without first ripping it.
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post #12392 of 13981 Old 10-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Oh Mike...

Last time you commented, the projector looked "really nice". Now with the UB9000 it has dropped to "looks good".

(face palm)
It has to do with reference point. With DTM, the bar has been raised.
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post #12393 of 13981 Old 10-09-2019, 08:02 PM
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Would sure like to see a shoot-out between DTM on JVC, Lumagen, MadVR-Envy, and any other contenders.
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post #12394 of 13981 Old 10-09-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
Would sure like to see a shoot-out between DTM on JVC, Lumagen, MadVR-Envy, and any other contenders.
it will happen.. it's standard procedure in the AV world

have you been running the latest builds? remarkable progress moving at the speed of light, it looks amazing!
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post #12395 of 13981 Old 10-09-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it will happen.. it's standard procedure in the AV world

have you been running the latest builds? remarkable progress moving at the speed of light, it looks amazing!
madVRhdrMeasure86. Time to update! Thanks for the heads-up.

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post #12396 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
Would sure like to see a shoot-out between DTM on JVC, Lumagen, MadVR-Envy, and any other contenders.
In celebration of all of our friends test driving the new JVC software, I did a double feature last night:

Blade Runner -The Final Cut and 2049, both in 4kHDR.

Settings:

UB820
Optimizer ON
+6 dynamic range
+1 brightness

X990
BT2020
7500k (Alt - High Bright - Red Gain -5 - Green Gain -20)
JVC Gamma B (dark level +5)
Contrast = +8
Brightness = 0
Low Lamp
Manual Iris = 0
Clear Black = Low
Enhance +2

To my eshift buds, give the JVC Gamma B a test drive. Bump up its dark level adjustment. See what you think this choice does for image dynamics and color.

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JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton

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post #12397 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I've thought about moving my PC to my media room and running it as an HTPC with MadVR, but I just don't know much about how it works. I built the PC myself in 2015 and changed the original GTX 970 with a GTX 1070 when it came out (thought about changing to an RTX card so I could play Quake 2 with Ray Tracing in 1080p, lol). Anyways, I'm sure there is a thread that teaches about MadVR.

Question: can MadVR add HDR highlights to 1080p discs?
lol, same Tom.

I used to (still would if time would allow) love to build PC's. I look at the price of Radiance Pro and ask 'why would i go that route for tone mapping?' The answer, lack of time ATM...

I would need to research the suitable components for HTPC to run MadVR and after the build is complete figure out how to tweak MadVR to work correctly with my setup. I can only imagine significant time investment to do it right...
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post #12398 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
lol, same Tom.

I used to (still would if time would allow) love to build PC's. I look at the price of Radiance Pro and ask 'why would i go that route for tone mapping?' The answer, lack of time ATM...

I would need to research the suitable components for HTPC to run MadVR and after the build is complete figure out how to tweak MadVR to work correctly with my setup. I can only imagine significant time investment to do it right...
The only problem with MadVR, other than having to build and set up the PC, is, it is only a solution for HDR DTM for disc. Does nothing for streaming content. That is why people are looking at solutions like MadVR Envy or Lumagen.

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post #12399 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
I would need to research the suitable components for HTPC to run MadVR and after the build is complete figure out how to tweak MadVR to work correctly with my setup. I can only imagine significant time investment to do it right...
Actually, @Onkyoman guide is so good that anyone with minimal computer skills can easily design and mount an HTPC with madVR in a few hours:
- https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html
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post #12400 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The only problem with MadVR, other than having to build and set up the PC, is, it is only a solution for HDR DTM for disc. Does nothing for streaming content. That is why people are looking at solutions like MadVR Envoy or Lumagen.
I Googled MadVR Envoy and didn't come up with a good descriptor. What is it?

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post #12401 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
In celebration of all of our friends test driving the new JVC software, I did a double feature last night:

Blade Runner -The Final Cut and 2049, both in 4kHDR.

Settings:

UB820
Optimizer ON
+6 dynamic range
+1 brightness (chad recommendation)

X990
BT2020 (chad)
7500k (chad)
JVC Gamma B (dark level +5) (like better than chad's custom 2.4)
Contrast +8
Brightness +2
Low Lamp
Manual Iris = 0
Clear Black = Low
Enhance +2

To my eshift buds, give the JVC Gamma B a test drive. Bump up its dark level adjustment. See what you think this choice does for image dynamics and color. Those fimilar with Sony pro cameras and their "look", that's the best way I can describe the affect of JVC Gamma B curve manipulation... looks like a Sony camera lut. However, Gamma B is a little too dark compared to 2.4, so I set B's dark level to +5, excellent low end dialed in.

I know it gets old to say, even irrelevant according to some, but I love the visual experience of this setup. Maybe it is lacking the high light performance refinement seen with some DTM options, but the rest of the image and lower end dynamics entertain these eyes.

I use your settings on Page 1 on my x790. Should I alter them with those above? I do not have a 4K player as I rent discs and never purchase them.
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post #12402 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I use your settings on Page 1 on my x790. Should I alter them with those above? I do not have a 4K player as I rent discs and never purchase them.
Jack, no. These are for SDR/2020 from the ub820. For any normal SDR HD sources, stay with the 1st post info.

You can experiment with the JVC Gamma B option and High Bright option, but the other changes will not track well.

JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton

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post #12403 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 01:24 PM
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I Googled MadVR Envoy and didn't come up with a good descriptor. What is it?
Please try : "madvr envy"

https://www.madvrlabs.llc
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post #12404 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
...The biggest difference between then and now, pushing the projector master contrast higher (up to +10) on actual content, vs setting at +2 for test pattern white clipping.
As I have only owned my 540 for 7 months or so, I find I have already changed Manual Iris from -6 to -3 (to compensate for aging bulb brightness?) I have @ 150 hours on PJ. I’m wondering if all the other JVC picture settings need to be addressed as well. Seems like too much work. Maybe an Autocal would be in order soon? Never tried DIY (meter driven) video calibration before. Yikes! What could go wrong?…famous last words.

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post #12405 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 04:44 PM
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As I have only owned my 540 for 7 months or so, I find I have already changed Manual Iris from -6 to -3 (to compensate for aging bulb brightness?) I have @ 150 hours on PJ. I’m wondering if all the other JVC picture settings need to be addressed as well. Seems like too much work. Maybe an Autocal would be in order soon? Never tried DIY (meter driven) video calibration before. Yikes! What could go wrong?…famous last words.


Are you using high bulb?

So far I have measured 0 drop in my NX5 after 175 hours in low bulb.

And it uses the same bulb as your 540.
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post #12406 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 05:08 PM
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Are you using high bulb?

So far I have measured 0 drop in my NX5 after 175 hours in low bulb.

And it uses the same bulb as your 540.
All viewing in Low bulb. But my hours are 225 not 150, just checked tonight.
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post #12407 of 13981 Old 10-10-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
I Googled MadVR Envoy and didn't come up with a good descriptor. What is it?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...on-thread.html

Sorry, my mistake on the typo. Envy, not Envoy.
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post #12408 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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As I have only owned my 540 for 7 months or so, I find I have already changed Manual Iris from -6 to -3 (to compensate for aging bulb brightness?) I have @ 150 hours on PJ. I’m wondering if all the other JVC picture settings need to be addressed as well. Seems like too much work. Maybe an Autocal would be in order soon? Never tried DIY (meter driven) video calibration before. Yikes! What could go wrong?…famous last words.
Once you suffer the initial lumen drop in the lamp, the decay rate is reduced and lumen drop & color shift are more stable.

If you have never done an AutoCal, running it to resolve any gamma droop, is a worthy endeavor. At 150 hours, you're in the range where the lamp is stabilizing, such that the AutoCal session would require a long period of time before re-calibrating.

If you would be calibrating a projector for the 1st time, the Manni JVC cal thread is a good resource.

You might also consider investing in a visit from one of the numerous calibration professionals among our members.

I had quite a bit of experience calibrating my own displays in the studio and my previous Sony SDR projectors. However, given the degree of nuance with HDR, put the responsibility in the hands of someone with far greater HDR experience and JVC eshift experience, was a no brainer.
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post #12409 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Variant to try... Test on Ready Player One 4kHDR

UB820
Optimizer = ON
Dynamic Luminance = +8
Brightness = +1
Dark Tone = 0 to +3 (adjust dark detail to taste)

X990
Color Profile - BT2020
Color Temp - High Bright - (Red Gain -5) - (Green Gain -20)
Gamma - JVC Gamma B (adjust dark level = +5)
Contrast = +2
Brightness = +2
Low Lamp
Manual Iris = 0
Clear Black = Low
Enhance +2

There is definitely an advantage to bringing the projector master contrast back to test pattern specs and pushing the ub820 dynamic luminance range up a few clicks instead.

The ub820 has so much range to allow the projector to be left dialed into test pattern setups, and just use the dynamic range to achieve realistic daylight scenes.


JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton

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post #12410 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
Actually, @Onkyoman guide is so good that anyone with minimal computer skills can easily design and mount an HTPC with madVR in a few hours:
- https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html
I looked at this a bit last night Neo. Have to agree; @Onkyoman has done a very nice job with this guide; and thank you for recommending it!
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post #12411 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 06:13 PM
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Nice guide, @Onkyoman ! This makes me want to build another PC! Maybe I should just get over it and take my PC out of my office and run some MadVR. I would probably need to change the case from the tower.

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post #12412 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
It has to do with reference point. With DTM, the bar has been raised.
DTM is the next chapter, but are there compelling differences between the current DTM solutions?

While it's still early in the feedback phase of the new JVC DTM software update, some of that feedback suggests the new DTM feature set controls lack the nuance and/or granularity, of the madVR or Radiance Pro alternatives.

So for me it begs the question, will the JVC DTM controls have the flexibility for owners to change/adjust parameters for some of the Low, Mid, High presets? For instance, if on a scale of 0 - +12, Low = +3, Mid = +6 and High = +9, what can be done if High = +11 would have been a better parameter setting option?

The ub820/9000 have Low, Mid and High dynamic range presets, but the user can over ride those presets and manually adjust anywhere along the -12 - +12 dynamic luminance adjustment range.

This not to say the available controls within the JVC DTM feature won't be a good upgrade over static ATM, albeit less flexible than the alternative DTM solutions.

JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton

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post #12413 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DTM is the next chapter, but are there are compelling differences between the current DTM solutions?

While it's still early in the feedback phase of the new JVC DTM software update, some of that feedback suggests the new DTM feature set controls lack the nuance and granularity, of the madVR or Radiance Pro alternatives.

So for me it begs the question, will the JVC DTM controls have the flexibility for owners to change/adjust parameters for some of the Low, Mid, High presets? For instance, if on a scale of 0 - +12, Low = +3, Mid = +6 and High = +9, what can be done if High = +11 would have been a better parameter setting option?

The ub820/9000 have Low, Mid and High dynamic range presets, but the user can over ride those presets and manually adjust anywhere along the -12 - +12 dynamic luminance adjustment range.

This not to say the available controls within the JVC DTM feature won't be a good upgrade over static ATM, albeit less flexible than the alternative DTM solutions.
Lumagen and MadVR are better DTM methods, but both cost you money and MadVR is limited to content you can play through the HTPC (until Envy comes out). JVC DTM gets you close to those methods. Was never expecting it to beat or even be as good, but for a free firmware upgrade, I think JVC hit it out of the park.
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post #12414 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DTM is the next chapter, but are there compelling differences between the current DTM solutions?

While it's still early in the feedback phase of the new JVC DTM software update, some of that feedback suggests the new DTM feature set controls lack the nuance and/or granularity, of the madVR or Radiance Pro alternatives.

So for me it begs the question, will the JVC DTM controls have the flexibility for owners to change/adjust parameters for some of the Low, Mid, High presets? For instance, if on a scale of 0 - +12, Low = +3, Mid = +6 and High = +9, what can be done if High = +11 would have been a better parameter setting option?

The ub820/9000 have Low, Mid and High dynamic range presets, but the user can over ride those presets and manually adjust anywhere along the -12 - +12 dynamic luminance adjustment range.

This not to say the available controls within the JVC DTM feature won't be a good upgrade over static ATM, albeit less flexible than the alternative DTM solutions.
I think between the three settings High, Medium, and Low. Along with your manual iris control, high lamp, low lamp, you can achieve a good match for any setup. Not sure a fine adjustment is needed but I suppose more control is better than less control.

To be honest it is getting difficult enough right now to see the differences between all the options and how it effects content. A lot of settings can look very good and a lot depends on your personal preference.
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post #12415 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I think between the three settings High, Medium, and Low. Along with your manual iris control, high lamp, low lamp, you can achieve a good match for any setup. Not sure a fine adjustment is needed but I suppose more control is better than less control.

To be honest it is getting difficult enough right now to see the differences between all the options and how it effects content. A lot of settings can look very good and a lot depends on your personal preference.
Thanks Greg.

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post #12416 of 13981 Old 10-11-2019, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have a minute... I have reworked the 1st post in an attempt to make it easier to follow for an increased number of setup configurations.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post54903820

I welcome any feedback.



Even though the forum is moving onto to new products, I thought updating the info for us stragglers, might be easier to follow.

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post #12417 of 13981 Old 10-12-2019, 06:56 AM
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post #12418 of 13981 Old 10-12-2019, 08:52 AM
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I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement

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post #12419 of 13981 Old 10-12-2019, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement?
You're asking the right question(s).

Even if we stipulate the degree of superior performance, whether the performance upgrade is worth the extra cost, it is very much a personal calculation.

I try to remain pragmatic, accepting I can not have the very best gear, all of the time. Rather I try to embrace the alternative of upgrading equipment on a 3-5 year or longer rotation.

The trick is having the discipline to resist being persuaded to abandon your upgrade schedule.

While I can endeavor to learn and appreciate what's new this year, I like what I see and hear in my HT, and feel no urgency to upgrade. There is also some solice reflecting on the journey traveled to arrive at this moment.

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post #12420 of 13981 Old 10-12-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement
There is definitely a noticeable difference with MadVR DTM vs any of the static mapping solutions (custom curves, UB820, etc). If I didn't already have a PC capable of running MadVR at max settings, it's hard to say if I'd spend that much on a standalone unit.

There was a time when Lumagen had the Mini 3D which was an affordable version of their larger, more expensive units. The only caveat was limited HDMI I/O which isn't a big deal since my AVR does all the switching. I was hoping they would eventually release a current gen version of the more affordable unit. It would likely cannibalize sales of the more expensive models. If they didn't have all those HDMI ports, It's possible they could have come in with something closer to 1/2 current price and could have sold a ton of them. 2.5-3k might be an impulse buy price for those on the fence of spending as much for the VP as the projector.

The development of MadVR is going at lightning speed which is going to benefit the Envy owners for certain. There is community feedback coming in from all over the world, it's amazing to see this effort unfold right here on the forum.
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