Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 415 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12421 of 12684 Old 10-11-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DTM is the next chapter, but are there are compelling differences between the current DTM solutions?

While it's still early in the feedback phase of the new JVC DTM software update, some of that feedback suggests the new DTM feature set controls lack the nuance and granularity, of the madVR or Radiance Pro alternatives.

So for me it begs the question, will the JVC DTM controls have the flexibility for owners to change/adjust parameters for some of the Low, Mid, High presets? For instance, if on a scale of 0 - +12, Low = +3, Mid = +6 and High = +9, what can be done if High = +11 would have been a better parameter setting option?

The ub820/9000 have Low, Mid and High dynamic range presets, but the user can over ride those presets and manually adjust anywhere along the -12 - +12 dynamic luminance adjustment range.

This not to say the available controls within the JVC DTM feature won't be a good upgrade over static ATM, albeit less flexible than the alternative DTM solutions.
Lumagen and MadVR are better DTM methods, but both cost you money and MadVR is limited to content you can play through the HTPC (until Envy comes out). JVC DTM gets you close to those methods. Was never expecting it to beat or even be as good, but for a free firmware upgrade, I think JVC hit it out of the park.
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post #12422 of 12684 Old 10-11-2019, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DTM is the next chapter, but are there compelling differences between the current DTM solutions?

While it's still early in the feedback phase of the new JVC DTM software update, some of that feedback suggests the new DTM feature set controls lack the nuance and/or granularity, of the madVR or Radiance Pro alternatives.

So for me it begs the question, will the JVC DTM controls have the flexibility for owners to change/adjust parameters for some of the Low, Mid, High presets? For instance, if on a scale of 0 - +12, Low = +3, Mid = +6 and High = +9, what can be done if High = +11 would have been a better parameter setting option?

The ub820/9000 have Low, Mid and High dynamic range presets, but the user can over ride those presets and manually adjust anywhere along the -12 - +12 dynamic luminance adjustment range.

This not to say the available controls within the JVC DTM feature won't be a good upgrade over static ATM, albeit less flexible than the alternative DTM solutions.
I think between the three settings High, Medium, and Low. Along with your manual iris control, high lamp, low lamp, you can achieve a good match for any setup. Not sure a fine adjustment is needed but I suppose more control is better than less control.

To be honest it is getting difficult enough right now to see the differences between all the options and how it effects content. A lot of settings can look very good and a lot depends on your personal preference.
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post #12423 of 12684 Old 10-11-2019, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I think between the three settings High, Medium, and Low. Along with your manual iris control, high lamp, low lamp, you can achieve a good match for any setup. Not sure a fine adjustment is needed but I suppose more control is better than less control.

To be honest it is getting difficult enough right now to see the differences between all the options and how it effects content. A lot of settings can look very good and a lot depends on your personal preference.
Thanks Greg.

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post #12424 of 12684 Old 10-11-2019, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have a minute... I have reworked the 1st post in an attempt to make it easier to follow for an increased number of setup configurations.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post54903820

I welcome any feedback.



Even though the forum is moving onto to new products, I thought updating the info for us stragglers, might be easier to follow.

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post #12425 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 07:56 AM
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post #12426 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement

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post #12427 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement?
You're asking the right question(s).

Even if we stipulate the degree of superior performance, whether the performance upgrade is worth the extra cost, it is very much a personal calculation.

I try to remain pragmatic, accepting I can not have the very best gear, all of the time. Rather I try to embrace the alternative of upgrading equipment on a 3-5 year or longer rotation.

The trick is having the discipline to resist being persuaded to abandon your upgrade schedule.

While I can endeavor to learn and appreciate what's new this year, I like what I see and hear in my HT, and feel no urgency to upgrade. There is also some solice reflecting on the journey traveled to arrive at this moment.

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post #12428 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement
There is definitely a noticeable difference with MadVR DTM vs any of the static mapping solutions (custom curves, UB820, etc). If I didn't already have a PC capable of running MadVR at max settings, it's hard to say if I'd spend that much on a standalone unit.

There was a time when Lumagen had the Mini 3D which was an affordable version of their larger, more expensive units. The only caveat was limited HDMI I/O which isn't a big deal since my AVR does all the switching. I was hoping they would eventually release a current gen version of the more affordable unit. It would likely cannibalize sales of the more expensive models. If they didn't have all those HDMI ports, It's possible they could have come in with something closer to 1/2 current price and could have sold a ton of them. 2.5-3k might be an impulse buy price for those on the fence of spending as much for the VP as the projector.

The development of MadVR is going at lightning speed which is going to benefit the Envy owners for certain. There is community feedback coming in from all over the world, it's amazing to see this effort unfold right here on the forum.
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post #12429 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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There is definitely a noticeable difference with MadVR DTM vs any of the static mapping solutions (custom curves, UB820, etc). If I didn't already have a PC capable of running MadVR at max settings, it's hard to say if I'd spend that much on a standalone unit.

There was a time when Lumagen had the Mini 3D which was an affordable version of their larger, more expensive units. The only caveat was limited HDMI I/O which isn't a big deal since my AVR does all the switching. I was hoping they would eventually release a current gen version of the more affordable unit. It would likely cannibalize sales of the more expensive models. If they didn't have all those HDMI ports, It's possible they could have come in with something closer to 1/2 current price and could have sold a ton of them. 2.5-3k might be an impulse buy price for those on the fence of spending as much for the VP as the projector.

The development of MadVR is going at lightning speed which is going to benefit the Envy owners for certain. There is community feedback coming in from all over the world, it's amazing to see this effort unfold right here on the forum.
I would buy the lumagen or envy but I can't justify the price and I have the money to buy it.. I could see myself buying a pc but then you can't stream with dtm so that's keeping me away.. If the Panasonic had vudu I think I would just right there.. Had the oppo worked I think I wouldn't be looking any further..
Someone needs to come up with a player that has two inputs already.

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post #12430 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 01:15 PM
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Its too bad there isn't a way to get an HDMI input on a PC and run everything that way. The Madvr envy seems way overpriced but maybe I just don't see the benefit since I have never seen a lumagen or envy doing it's thing. I'll be sticking with the 820 and I'll upgrade in 5 years, by then they will have HDR sorted out I'm sure.

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post #12431 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I have an honest question because I've never seen dtm before.. is the lumagen or the envy worth 4000 or 5000 more than what the Panasonic can do? In other words will it give me that much of a better image or do they cost that much because they allow you do do so many other things..

I hear so much about Dtm I will want to get one if is that good but I dont know of is worth 5000 of picture improvement

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For me - yes. The DTM for HDR on my Lumagen has been a game changer picture wise. It's a big step up from a fixed HDR curve. Superior upscaling is another bonus. And just like MadVR keeps evolving and improving, so does the Lumagen. Especially with folks like Kris Deering giving input. I could not live without mine at this point.
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post #12432 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 01:42 PM
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For me - yes. The DTM for HDR on my Lumagen has been a game changer picture wise. It's a big step up from a fixed HDR curve. Superior upscaling is another bonus. And just like MadVR keeps evolving and improving, so does the Lumagen. Especially with folks like Kris Deering giving input. I could not live without mine at this point.
Yea I finally went the MadVR route since I already had the gaming rig in the theater room. Had resisted because of the limitations and a PC is generally a PITA to configure.

Same for me though. I've been using my old 106" HP screen ever since I got the RS540 for the added brightness. Now I'm finding that isn't necessary with MadVR. My fixed 125" 1.0 gain screen works amazingly well now. I am running high lamp rather than low with the HP screen, but I still went from something like 50fl to 30fl.
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post #12433 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 01:48 PM
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For me - yes. The DTM for HDR on my Lumagen has been a game changer picture wise. It's a big step up from a fixed HDR curve. Superior upscaling is another bonus. And just like MadVR keeps evolving and improving, so does the Lumagen. Especially with folks like Kris Deering giving input. I could not live without mine at this point.
Ok I get it but forget upscaling because I don't turn on my projector unless is for 4k or 3D... I won't be upscaling anything..
So the question is and I'm sure there is an answer.. If someone was to pay 4000 or 5000 for one of these is the image improvement worth that much over say a Panasonic?

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post #12434 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
There is definitely a noticeable difference with MadVR DTM vs any of the static mapping solutions (custom curves, UB820, etc). If I didn't already have a PC capable of running MadVR at max settings, it's hard to say if I'd spend that much on a standalone unit.

There was a time when Lumagen had the Mini 3D which was an affordable version of their larger, more expensive units. The only caveat was limited HDMI I/O which isn't a big deal since my AVR does all the switching. I was hoping they would eventually release a current gen version of the more affordable unit. It would likely cannibalize sales of the more expensive models. If they didn't have all those HDMI ports, It's possible they could have come in with something closer to 1/2 current price and could have sold a ton of them. 2.5-3k might be an impulse buy price for those on the fence of spending as much for the VP as the projector.

The development of MadVR is going at lightning speed which is going to benefit the Envy owners for certain. There is community feedback coming in from all over the world, it's amazing to see this effort unfold right here on the forum.
And what do you do for streaming. Do you use a custom curve?
Is there people on the forum you can hire to build a pc.. I don't want to build it myself.

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post #12435 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 02:18 PM
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And what do you do for streaming. Do you use a custom curve?
Is there people on the forum you can hire to build a pc.. I don't want to build it myself.

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A PC is really easy to build. There are tons of how to vids and I'm sure there are people here that can walk you through it. My 14 year old just built his first, he was surprised how simple it was.

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post #12436 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 02:47 PM
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Ok I get it but forget upscaling because I don't turn on my projector unless is for 4k or 3D... I won't be upscaling anything..
So the question is and I'm sure there is an answer.. If someone was to pay 4000 or 5000 for one of these is the image improvement worth that much over say a Panasonic?

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You don't watch any Blu-rays or 1080p content ? I have 450+ Blu-rays. Watched " Black Swan " the other night with friends on Blu-ray in fact.

The DTM is another step up from the Panasonic. I can't say whether it's worth $4K - 5K for you. It was for me. But gaining that last 10% or 15% better picture and sound in a home theater always costs dis-proportionally more money.
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post #12437 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 03:01 PM
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You don't watch any Blu-rays or 1080p content ? I have 450+ Blu-rays. Watched " Black Swan " the other night with friends on Blu-ray in fact.



The DTM is another step up from the Panasonic. I can't say whether it's worth $4K - 5K for you. It was for me. But gaining that last 10% or 15% better picture and sound in a home theater always costs dis-proportionally more money.
Ever since I bought my 4k projector I stopped watching anything else.. lol I have a second 1080 projector which I use for sports or gaming for the kids.. i had never seen 3d on a projector till i bought my first jvc and now its either 3d or 4k only on the jvc and I love a good 3d movie more than the 4k version. But the movie has to be good..

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post #12438 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 03:05 PM
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Ever since I bought my 4k projector I stopped watching anything else.. lol I have a second 1080 projector which I use for sports or gaming for the kids.. i had never seen 3d on a projector till i bought my first jvc and now its either 3d or 4k only on the jvc and I love a good 3d movie more than the 4k version. But the movie has to be good..

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That's cool. I watch zero 3D and I don't stream - at all. We all have what we like.

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post #12439 of 12684 Old 10-12-2019, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Our movie night feature was El Camino: A Break Bad Movie (netflix). Roku Ultra -> x4300h -> x990.

Presentation was fantastic. Guests were well entertained. Could the image have been improved upon? Probably, but it didn't crossed my mind once.
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Our movie night feature was El Camino: A Break Bad Movie (netflix). Roku Ultra -> x4300h -> x990.



Presentation was fantastic. Guests were well entertained. Could the image have been improved upon? Probably, but it didn't crossed my mind once.


We also just watched that tonight down the street at a friend’s on the NX-7. Looked great, but what was truly impressive was the sound, especially via streaming. The first Atmos mix I’ve heard that made me think “maybe it’s worth it”. VERY aggressive. Loved it.


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post #12441 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 06:48 AM
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A PC is really easy to build. There are tons of how to vids and I'm sure there are people here that can walk you through it. My 14 year old just built his first, he was surprised how simple it was.

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Agreed. I was able to easily decide and purchase all components, then once I had them it took less than 2 hours to assemble and get going on the software installs. The hardest part is deciding what you want to put into it.

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Ever since I bought my 4k projector I stopped watching anything else.. lol I have a second 1080 projector which I use for sports or gaming for the kids.. i had never seen 3d on a projector till i bought my first jvc and now its either 3d or 4k only on the jvc and I love a good 3d movie more than the 4k version. But the movie has to be good..

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The JVC definitely does 3D better than any other display I've owned. Watching Avatar 3D was like seeing it in the the theaters again! Speaking of Avatar, it mystifies me how everyone hates it, supposedly, but it was the highest grossing movie of all time and raved about for years. It reminds me of Creed or Nickelback - yeah, you owned the album, you listened and liked them, but now you rail against them! I'm onto you, lol. Sorry for the tangent.

I just can't get my wife and kids on board - they hate the glasses.

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post #12443 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:16 AM
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The JVC definitely does 3D better than any other display I've owned. Watching Avatar 3D was like seeing it in the the theaters again! Speaking of Avatar, it mystifies me how everyone hates it, supposedly, but it was the highest grossing movie of all time and raved about for years. It reminds me of Creed or Nickelback - yeah, you owned the album, you listened and liked them, but now you rail against them! I'm onto you, lol. Sorry for the tangent.



I just can't get my wife and kids on board - they hate the glasses.
Imo the only reason avatar did so well was because of how good it was in 3d. The story was not original and the acting was ok. I admit I did see it 3 times in the theater because of how stunning it looked in 3d and that's the reason I think most people saw it more than once. I'm betting that the sequel wont even hit half the numbers the first did. This also won't stop me from seeing it, I'm sure it will be visually stunning just like the first.

On a side note I'm happy to say I disliked Nickelback and Creed from day one.

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post #12444 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:31 AM
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Imo the only reason avatar did so well was because of how good it was in 3d. The story was not original and the acting was ok. I admit I did see it 3 times in the theater because of how stunning it looked in 3d and that's the reason I think most people saw it more than once. I'm betting that the sequel wont even hit half the numbers the first did. This also won't stop me from seeing it, I'm sure it will be visually stunning just like the first.

On a side note I'm happy to say I disliked Nickelback and Creed from day one.

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I will give you not original, but I can argue that on a lot of well received movies. I like Deadpool 2, but go watch Looper and then watch DP2. Not so original, but I don’t care, because they are both great movies.

I wouldn’t bet against James Cameron. There is a reason he is given bear unlimited freedom with his creations. I’m excited to see what he comes up with Avatar 2 - I’m betting it will be even more groundbreaking than the 1st and will have us scurrying to upgrade some gear. I’m not ashamed to say I still have my Samsung 3D tv I bought just to watch Avatar.

As for Creed and Nickelback, I’m not ashamed to say I have them in some playlists on Apple Music. I’m willing to bet (not pointing the finger at you) there are many people that do, but would never admit it.

Again, sorry for the completely unrelated subject from the JVC. My amp and pre/pro have been in warranty repair, so I can’t watch mine and it’s driving me nuts. I got my amp back a week ago, but my Marantz 7704 is taking forever. So long, I’m considering purchasing another model.

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post #12445 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:33 AM
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I'm sure it's been said here but what do you guys recommend for 3d glasses and emitter on the x790? I for one would use it a lot, I own a bunch of 3d movies and only used them briefly on a Samsung TV.

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post #12446 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:41 AM
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I'm sure it's been said here but what do you guys recommend for 3d glasses and emitter on the x790? I for one would use it a lot, I own a bunch of 3d movies and only used them briefly on a Samsung TV.

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You need the PK-EM2 RF Emitter. The Samsung 3D glasses should work.
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post #12447 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:43 AM
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Agreed. I was able to easily decide and purchase all components, then once I had them it took less than 2 hours to assemble and get going on the software installs. The hardest part is deciding what you want to put into it.
But the difficulty level is way beyond setting up a Roku or similar. The software installs are not trivial. Figuring out what to d/l, getting it installed, configured, etc... Then there all the headaches of when things don't work correctly.

Just figuring out where all the settings are for MadVR is a challenge unless you are familiar with it, and more importantly, familiar with DirectShow filters.

I much prefer the streaming box route like a Roku, Shield TV, etc... even though I have the knowledge and ability to set up the PC. The combination of MadVR's capability and the crazy high price of hardware solutions like the Lumagen are the only reasons I'm messing with a HTPC again.
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post #12448 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:45 AM
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Has anyone here used a dalite HP screen with 3d glasses? I'm wondering since I have the material if it would be worth it for the added brightness. I got the screen locally and I have enough material to make up to a 150". I don't know why I bought it but it was cheap so I just grabbed it.

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post #12449 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:51 AM
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There is definitely a noticeable difference with MadVR DTM vs any of the static mapping solutions (custom curves, UB820, etc). If I didn't already have a PC capable of running MadVR at max settings, it's hard to say if I'd spend that much on a standalone unit.

There was a time when Lumagen had the Mini 3D which was an affordable version of their larger, more expensive units. The only caveat was limited HDMI I/O which isn't a big deal since my AVR does all the switching. I was hoping they would eventually release a current gen version of the more affordable unit. It would likely cannibalize sales of the more expensive models. If they didn't have all those HDMI ports, It's possible they could have come in with something closer to 1/2 current price and could have sold a ton of them. 2.5-3k might be an impulse buy price for those on the fence of spending as much for the VP as the projector.

The development of MadVR is going at lightning speed which is going to benefit the Envy owners for certain. There is community feedback coming in from all over the world, it's amazing to see this effort unfold right here on the forum.
I was just thinking this the other day. If a Lumagen was 1/2 the current price, I would likely bite. As it is, just too expensive. I think I can be happy with a combination of MadVR and custom curves for some streaming content.

Eventually I'll end up with a new PJ that likely will do DTM. I'll predict right now that eventually it will be built in to most mid to high end displays and all of this will be moot (given that JVC just released it as a FW update, might not be all that far away). Absolute best quality may still come from dedicated hardware, but it'll be close enough most won't care.
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post #12450 of 12684 Old 10-13-2019, 07:53 AM
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Has anyone here used a dalite HP screen with 3d glasses? I'm wondering since I have the material if it would be worth it for the added brightness. I got the screen locally and I have enough material to make up to a 150". I don't know why I bought it but it was cheap so I just grabbed it.

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Absolutely. I've used mine for this purpose and Zombie uses his for it all the time IIRC. I don't watch much 3D anymore, but I'll be hanging on to my HP screen for that reason alone.
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