Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 427 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12781 of 12859 Old 11-22-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Bob,

I know you have mentioned this in the past but I guess I never realized it could automate user mode selection.

Is this easy to set up? Do you have it documented somewhere so that someone who never used a raspberry Pi would be able to get this up and running?

Thanks.

Mark


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Not really. I made the script myself and it is custom to my installation (I have it also control my mask screen as well as my projector - so it does auto aspect masking and projector user mode switching all based on output from the Radiance pro).
It's undoubtedly something that could be productized, but it starts to be a control system really - when you start having to add user interfaces etc to stuff and configurability outside of the code it starts to turn into much more of a "project" than a "hack" - which is what I've done at the moment.

I'm happy to let folk who know Python look at my scripts if they're useful to them, but I don't really have time to handhold folk into getting a PI up and running etc.
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post #12782 of 12859 Old 11-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cpc View Post
I am only going to be able to manage about 15 feet throw distance at best in my home theatre setup which means using the lens at 1.75x zoom...so wide, not telephoto. I think if I use a Prismasonic or Panamorph U480 lens I will be looking at pincushion, correct? I don't want a curved screen. Screen size is 130" diagonal and 51" constant height.

If I have to use my projector zooming the image for 2.35:1 movies on a setup like the above, will it be worth it to zoom?
That is a short enough throw distance, that you really should be using a curved screen. It is also a throw ratio below what the Isco is rated for. Does not mean that it will not work, but not what would be recommended.
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post #12783 of 12859 Old 11-22-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quick question to anyone... on Gamma only Auto Cal…If I select a Custom slot for my Gamma only Auto Cal, does that isolate modifications to only that slot or would standard OEM Gamma settings be effected as well? In other words, are gamma mods global? So if I correct gamma droop for “Normal” gamma, in a Custom slot, would that effect “Normal” gamma anywhere I reference it. Thanks.
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post #12784 of 12859 Old 11-23-2019, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catav View Post
Quick question to anyone... on Gamma only Auto Cal…If I select a Custom slot for my Gamma Auto Cal, does that isolate modifications to only that slot or would standard OEM Gamma settings be effected as well? In other words, are gamma mods global? So if I correct gamma droop for “Normal” gamma, in a Custom slot, would that effect “Normal” gamma anywhere I reference it. Thanks.
As explained in the autocal instructions, all gamma calibrations are global for a given combination of lamp power (high/low), P3 colour filter (on/off), CMD (on/off)
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post #12785 of 12859 Old 11-23-2019, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
As explained in the autocal instructions, all gamma calibrations are global for a given combination of lamp power (high/low), P3 colour filter (on/off), CMD (on/off)
Is the state of the IRIS also part of that, such that you'd do cals at steps of multiples of 3 or 5? 0, -3, -6, -9, -12, -15

Is it CMD On or OFF, but not both?
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post #12786 of 12859 Old 11-23-2019, 01:19 PM
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Is the state of the IRIS also part of that, such that you'd do cals at steps of multiples of 3 or 5? 0, -3, -6, -9, -12, -15
There are no separate gamma calibrations for iris positions; i.e., the same gamma calibration applies regardless of the iris position.

For colour calibrations the switchover points are -4, -8, -12.

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Is it CMD On or OFF, but not both?
Not sure what you mean by “both”. CMD Off uses one gamma calibration, CMD On (any mode) uses another calibration.
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post #12787 of 12859 Old 11-23-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There are no separate gamma calibrations for iris positions; i.e., the same gamma calibration applies regardless of the iris position...
Then it sounds like User 1-5 and Custom 1-3 slot selections are not required to do a simple correction to Gamma only with just (gamma="Normal", low bulb, CMD=off, P3 colour filter=on, regardless of lens aperture)? Does it then not matter what setting Manual Iris is in when you run "Gamma only" autocal? And don't you have to "Import" gamma corrections into a custom slot? This is kind of confusing. Sorry.
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post #12788 of 12859 Old 11-23-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
Then it sounds like User 1-5 and Custom 1-3 slot selections are not required to do a simple correction to Gamma only with just (gamma="Normal", low bulb, CMD=off, P3 colour filter=on, regardless of lens aperture)? Does it then not matter what setting Manual Iris is in when you run "Gamma only" autocal? And don't you have to "Import" gamma corrections into a custom slot? This is kind of confusing. Sorry.
You may be confusing between “custom gamma” and “gamma Autocal”. Custom gamma needs to be loaded (or adjusted using the 12-pt controls) for each slot individually, but that has nothing to do with gamma Autocal which “fixes” the base gamma that applies to all.
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post #12789 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 09:54 AM
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Tried combing through all these posts but its a lot....lol

I am setting up a HT control on one of my older tablets and I want to see if the 540 can be controlled via LAN/TCP IP? Is this possible or what is the best way to go about this. I have gotten everything else going....Oppo, Denon, PS4, DTV, etc. The 540 has me stumped....

Thanks,

Last edited by gable74; 11-24-2019 at 10:02 AM.
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post #12790 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Tried combing through all these posts but its a lot....lol

I am setting up a HT control on one of my older tablets and I want to see if the 540 can be controlled via LAN/TCP IP? Is this possible or what is the best way to go about this. I have gotten everything else going....Oppo, Denon, PS4, DTV, etc. The 540 has me stumped....

Thanks,
You can try this app, written by forum member @markmon1

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57000620
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post #12791 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can try this app, written by forum member @markmon1

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57000620
Thank you for the link. I need something to work in android however.
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post #12792 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gable74 View Post
Thank you for the link. I need something to work in android however.
I wonder if the newer HDFury devices which can use a web browser to access the device interface, might be a solution?

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post #12793 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 11:49 AM
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I wonder if the newer HDFury devices which can use a web browser to access the device interface, might be a solution?
I think if I can figure out how to execute a program located on a PC in the same LAN as the android device I could figure it out.
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post #12794 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 12:18 PM
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Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gable74 View Post
I think if I can figure out how to execute a program located on a PC in the same LAN as the android device I could figure it out.


I made a program that does exactly this if you are interested.
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post #12795 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 04:01 PM
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I made a program that does exactly this if you are interested.
Yes please....
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post #12796 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You may be confusing between “custom gamma” and “gamma Autocal”. Custom gamma needs to be loaded (or adjusted using the 12-pt controls) for each slot individually, but that has nothing to do with gamma Autocal which “fixes” the base gamma that applies to all.
Thanks a lot, that totally cleared up my confusion!

So, I ran my first Autocal (Log only) with my eBay acquired, used Spyder5Pro today.

Wasn’t sure what screen size to input for my 2.37 143” scope, so I converted to 16x9 corresponding to it’s width of 132”, which is 151 inches. So I input 151”.

Put meter as close to lens and still inside of orange box.

Not sure how to interrupt the attached charts. Could really use your input at this point. Should I continue to do a gamma only calibration? Or is the gamma line out of wack?
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post #12797 of 12859 Old 11-24-2019, 06:51 PM
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Thanks a lot, that totally cleared up my confusion!

So, I ran my first Autocal (Log only) with my eBay acquired, used Spyder5Pro today.

Wasn’t sure what screen size to input for my 2.37 143” scope, so I converted to 16x9 corresponding to it’s width of 132”, which is 151 inches. So I input 151”.

Put meter as close to lens and still inside of orange box.

Not sure how to interrupt the attached charts. Could really use your input at this point. Should I continue to do a gamma only calibration? Or is the gamma line out of wack?
The first picture shows you have gamma droop, which when corrected will show a straight, diagonal line. The third picture show the meter is measuring D65 (“6500K”) at 100%, but the colour temperature gets progressively “colder” (higher colour temperature, bluer) at lower levels. Both issues can be corrected by running gamma Autocal.

It also shows you’re safe to run colour Autocal, but not necessary.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-24-2019 at 08:03 PM.
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post #12798 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 12:30 AM
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Guys, I’ve had my 790 for about 6 months now. I’m projecting onto a 140” Severtson white 1.3 gain screen. My room is completely light controlled. I feel a bit disappointed with the black levels that I’m seeing. Even when the projected image is all black, I’m still seeing a large amount of just gray. Are the “OLED-like” black levels just blown out of proportion?

Btw my ceilings are black, walls are dark gray and the carpet is a burgundy color. I can understand that there will be some reflections, and I have black velvet that I’m getting close to putting up on the back wall and first 6 feet of the side walls/ ceiling, but like I said, even with al all-black screen being displayed, it is like an edge-lit LCD screen. Not really black.

Also, there appears to be some vertical streaking on lettering when the screen has a black background...is this normal?


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post #12799 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
Guys, I’ve had my 790 for about 6 months now. I’m projecting onto a 140” Severtson white 1.3 gain screen. My room is completely light controlled. I feel a bit disappointed with the black levels that I’m seeing. Even when the projected image is all black, I’m still seeing a large amount of just gray. Are the “OLED-like” black levels just blown out of proportion?

Btw my ceilings are black, walls are dark gray and the carpet is a burgundy color. I can understand that there will be some reflections, and I have black velvet that I’m getting close to putting up on the back wall and first 6 feet of the side walls/ ceiling, but like I said, even with al all-black screen being displayed, it is like an edge-lit LCD screen. Not really black.

Also, there appears to be some vertical streaking on lettering when the screen has a black background...is this normal?


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Could you post some details about your settings? What are some examples of poor performing black levels? Playback from disc or streaming? Any additional details would help.

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post #12800 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
Guys, I’ve had my 790 for about 6 months now. I’m projecting onto a 140” Severtson white 1.3 gain screen. My room is completely light controlled. I feel a bit disappointed with the black levels that I’m seeing. Even when the projected image is all black, I’m still seeing a large amount of just gray. Are the “OLED-like” black levels just blown out of proportion?

Btw my ceilings are black, walls are dark gray and the carpet is a burgundy color. I can understand that there will be some reflections, and I have black velvet that I’m getting close to putting up on the back wall and first 6 feet of the side walls/ ceiling, but like I said, even with al all-black screen being displayed, it is like an edge-lit LCD screen. Not really black.

Also, there appears to be some vertical streaking on lettering when the screen has a black background...is this normal?
Yes, OLED like black levels is a massive exaggeration. Even with the best room in the world the optical ANSI contrast of the projector light engine is somewhere under 300:1, and the black levels achieved even in full off are much, much higher than those of an OLED. Couple to that the fact that many good projector rooms are black holes, yet OLEDs are more often used in rooms that are not perfectly black, and you are further increasing the disparity between the observed blacks and their surroundings.

I find the worst scenes visually are actually murkier scenes with low APL; because in these scenes the eye's adaptation, without there being any other strong light in view, is able to allow the black of the screen wall to really make the projected grey of the image stand out. Note when I say "worst" - these scenes still look much better on a JVC than most other projectors (save for dual-modulation beasts), but OLED they're certainly not.

You can of course improve the projected black by closing the iris. If you have the means to calibrate, setting your SDR peak to 48 to 56 nits using the iris might let you close the iris and get a proportionally darker black than you otherwise would have. Running in high lamp if you don't already would allow you to close the iris further for the same peak output, again getting you a better black level for the same peak white. However it is unlikely to make a huge difference; you can see in the attached chart that the eye is able to adapt over time to see some phenomenally dark levels.

Vertical streaking is par for the course.

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post #12801 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 01:54 AM
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Would you say that with projectors not having a phenomenal black level ( like the N7 ....) they are better in a somewhat dark room but not a "black hole" (cave) ?

A friend of mine already told me that he much more likes his borderless screen then the one he had with velvet black borders as they clearly show that the projected black is not that black.

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Would you say that with projectors not having a phenomenal black level ( like the N7 ....) they are better in a somewhat dark room but not a "black hole" (cave) ?
A somewhat dark room will not improve the picture, but will stop you from complaining about the projector
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post #12803 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 07:49 AM
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I'd love to see a well constructed implementation of D65 bias lighting in an otherwise "perfect black hole" (velvet walls etc) cinema room, and whether it would bring any useful benefit to the perceived image quality.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
Guys, I’ve had my 790 for about 6 months now. I’m projecting onto a 140” Severtson white 1.3 gain screen. My room is completely light controlled. I feel a bit disappointed with the black levels that I’m seeing. Even when the projected image is all black, I’m still seeing a large amount of just gray. Are the “OLED-like” black levels just blown out of proportion?

Btw my ceilings are black, walls are dark gray and the carpet is a burgundy color. I can understand that there will be some reflections, and I have black velvet that I’m getting close to putting up on the back wall and first 6 feet of the side walls/ ceiling, but like I said, even with al all-black screen being displayed, it is like an edge-lit LCD screen. Not really black.

Also, there appears to be some vertical streaking on lettering when the screen has a black background...is this normal?


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The projector is projecting light, so it will never be completely black. It will always be gray. When you compare your black image to what you see when you hit the hide button, are they the same? If so, that is the best you can do. Streaking is a pretty common trait on LCOS projectors.
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post #12805 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 08:11 AM
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I'd love to see a well constructed implementation of D65 bias lighting in an otherwise "perfect black hole" (velvet walls etc) cinema room, and whether it would bring any useful benefit to the perceived image quality.
I don’t remember seeing anyone recommend using bias lighting for projectors, other than the screen manufacturers who sell “cool” kits.
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post #12806 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 08:26 AM
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I don’t remember seeing anyone recommend using bias lighting for projectors, other than the screen manufacturers who sell “cool” kits.
Perhaps there is a way to construct the frame to hide or well localize the bias lighting so it won't affect the actual image but just boost the perceived contrast? I really like the bias lighting on my Samsung QLED. It makes the black level the same as OLED as far as my eyes can tell.
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Perhaps there is a way to construct the frame to hide or well localize the bias lighting so it won't affect the actual image but just boost the perceived contrast? I really like the bias lighting on my Samsung QLED. It makes the black level the same as OLED as far as my eyes can tell.
I haven’t spent time experimenting with bias lighting (projector user here). I know it makes “dark grey” look like true black perceptually, but how does it affect deep shadow details?
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post #12808 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I'd love to see a well constructed implementation of D65 bias lighting in an otherwise "perfect black hole" (velvet walls etc) cinema room, and whether it would bring any useful benefit to the perceived image quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I haven’t spent time experimenting with bias lighting (projector user here). I know it makes “dark grey” look like true black perceptually, but how does it affect deep shadow details?
It is not like this is a new concept. I had bias lighting behind my RPTV 20 years ago but I did not leave it on when my screen dropped down in front of it. I figure that if it worked there would already be high end solutions implementing bias lighting, not just the gimmicky screen halos that we know don't help picture quality.

I can imagine it probably could look nice as I can admit that a projection image is perfectly viewable with ambient light, particularly if it is completely diffuse. Direct light is the real killer. But I agree with Dominic's line of thinking, the physics dictates that there must be some loss. The question may just be which do you prefer?
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post #12809 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 10:50 AM
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When you run Autocal the first time it saves factory calibration settings in an "init" file. My SSD has very limited space. Approximately, how much disk space is needed for this file?
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post #12810 of 12859 Old 11-25-2019, 10:53 AM
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When you run Autocal the first time it saves factory calibration settings in an "init" file. My SSD has very limited space. Approximately, how much disk space is needed for this file?
25 kilobytes, or about 5 kilobytes if you compress it
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