Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 431 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12901 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
You need a Panasonic UB420, not a new projector. SDR2020 is your answer (and yes, the Panasonic does it better than Oppo, since it also has an HDR Optimizer and adjustable slider). More info in my sig links.

The next projector you buy should be a JVC NX7/RS2000 or better. If you buy a X7900 be sure you can return it once you realize the cost over your X7500 isn’t worth it.

Just the sort of info I was looking for - Thankyou Dreamliner!
So, I've just found a UB420 for a great price (£149). Before I buy it, I'll give a little more info about my current system. The Oppo 203 I have is a clone - M9702 - no disc drive. I use a high quality linear PSU to power it. It does have the HDR optimiser with slider you speak of. My media is stored, uncompressed on several NASs (I have a dedicated NAS for 4k media) and so I only ever stream media. Given this information are you still quite sure the UB420 will outperform the Oppo 203 by some margin?
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post #12902 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
What about Roku Premier 4k SDR > SDR Gamma 2.4 or Gamma B?
vs.
ATV4k 4k/SDR -> SDR Gamma 2.4 or Gamma B

I don't think I want to buy an ATV4k + Vertex2 + Panny 420 + Update MadVR PC to 1070 or higher (have 1060)...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the Panny 420 on the way for movies, so given the above, best suggestion for streaming without buying EVERYTHING?
I haven't used the 820 for streaming, although I did test Netflix once on El Camino, and was just a tad better than the Roku Ultra playback.

Imho the ATV4K is superior to both the 820 streaming and the Roku. This may have more to do with difference in quality of ATV4K data files vs the others, but it has been apparent with all streaming sources. D+, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, ATV+... atv4k movie rentals have been better quality than Vudu.

I hear ya regarding managing your to buy list. In order of priority you might consider...

1- madvr upgrades
2 - atv4k (all streaming)
3 - 420 (if you have any need for faster disc playback vs ripping)
4 - vertex2 (or cheaper vertex @ $200 or less) for Atv4k

I will be moving the Roku Ultra out of the HT, moving it to the family room and giving that Roku to one of the kids for their dorm.

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post #12903 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 07:41 AM
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Just posted over in the HDFury Vertex - Owners thread...


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post #12904 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
Just the sort of info I was looking for - Thankyou Dreamliner!
So, I've just found a UB420 for a great price (£149). Before I buy it, I'll give a little more info about my current system. The Oppo 203 I have is a clone - M9702 - no disc drive. I use a high quality linear PSU to power it. It does have the HDR optimiser with slider you speak of. My media is stored, uncompressed on several NASs (I have a dedicated NAS for 4k media) and so I only ever stream media. Given this information are you still quite sure the UB420 will outperform the Oppo 203 by some margin?
I haven’t used the OPPO, but the UB820/420 is rather limited in its ability to play media files on NAS servers, in terms of supported audio format. It’s strength is in disc playback.

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post #12905 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I haven’t used the OPPO, but the UB820/420 is rather limited in its ability to play media files on NAS servers, in terms of supported audio format. It’s strength is in disc playback.

Erm.. I'm not quite understanding the audio support aspect - doesn't the machine output LPCM or bitstream which is then decoded by my receiver ?
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post #12906 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 09:03 AM
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Erm.. I'm not quite understanding the audio support aspect - doesn't the machine output LPCM or bitstream which is then decoded by my receiver ?
With some files I get no audio at all. You can search the UB820 thread for more details.

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post #12907 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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With some files I get no audio at all. You can search the UB820 thread for more details.

Ok - that really does suck! - I'll check out the 820 thread - Thanks ;- )
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post #12908 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
1- madvr upgrades
2 - atv4k (all streaming)
3 - 420 (if you have any need for faster disc playback vs ripping)
4 - vertex2 (or cheaper vertex @ $200 or less) for Atv4k
What would a Vertex 2 do for me? Is it permitting DV to pass to the rs540?

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post #12909 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
What would a Vertex 2 do for me? Is it permitting DV to pass to the rs540?
If you have a source device capable of player led DV processing, the HD Fury (via a DV LLDV EDID) will engage the Dolby Profile 5 Layer to map the source DV, HDR10, SDR signal to output a HDR10 signal with a PQ curve.

For me, only a DV, HDR10 benefit from DV LLDV. Dave and others have had success processing SDR source content as well.

On the rs540, you would use your best HDR10 setup, just as if you would with normal HDR10 source. Although I have found with my custom curves for HDR, i can run master contrast at +12 /+15 , instead the normal +2, giving max APL boost to the source content.

What does this look like? It looks like the best the ub820 with SDR2020 can do, but with improved specular highlights and a contrastier (?) look thru the luminance range (the shape of the Profile 5 Layer PQ curve).

As far as the look of the DV LLDV mid tones, upper tones and specular highlights, the only alternative that looked better on my x990, was the Lumagen with dpad 0-3, and ratio 20-28.

How did the lumagen looks better? The improved specular highlights revealed greater highlight detail. (in clouds or shiny surfaces which have subtle detail)
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post #12910 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
(in clouds or shiny surfaces which have subtle detail)
That alone has peaked my interest in Lumagen as a solution in my quest. I can see the added PQ, especially in shiny objects. I love the added immersion.

edit: The eye candy is addictive.

Last edited by catav; 12-18-2019 at 08:19 PM.
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post #12911 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 08:20 PM
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Is the $200ish HD Furies the lowest cost ones you can buy just to get the DI working in HDR for an RS-420?

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post #12912 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the $200ish HD Furies the lowest cost ones you can buy just to get the DI working in HDR for an RS-420?
Ask @HDfury in this thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post58976368

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post #12913 of 13975 Old 12-18-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
If you have a source device capable of player led DV processing, the HD Fury (via a DV LLDV EDID) will engage the Dolby Profile 5 Layer to map the source DV, HDR10, SDR signal to output a HDR10 signal with a PQ curve.

For me, only a DV, HDR10 benefit from DV LLDV. Dave and others have had success processing SDR source content as well.

On the rs540, you would use your best HDR10 setup, just as if you would with normal HDR10 source. Although I have found with my custom curves for HDR, i can run master contrast at +12 /+15 , instead the normal +2, giving max APL boost to the source content.

What does this look like? It looks like the best the ub820 with SDR2020 can do, but with improved specular highlights and a contrastier (?) look thru the luminance range (the shape of the Profile 5 Layer PQ curve).

As far as the look of the DV LLDV mid tones, upper tones and specular highlights, the only alternative that looked better on my x990, was the Lumagen with dpad 0-3, and ratio 20-28.

How did the lumagen looks better? The improved specular highlights revealed greater highlight detail. (in clouds or shiny surfaces which have subtle detail)
Well, that sounds pretty good. I don't have a tone mapping option since the Oppo feature is broken. Have been using a custom curve I built using Dominic's instructions until I recently swapped for Javs' 80 nit curve. I may get a calibration some day but living with this happily for now.

I saw something recently with a really bright chrome-finish vehicle... can't recall what it was, but would probably make a good torture test for such a comparison.
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post #12914 of 13975 Old 12-19-2019, 05:03 AM
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I just sold my oppo 203 yesterday, I paid 780 Canadian used it for 2.5 years and sold it for 1200. I ordered the 820 for 500 and pocketed the 700 bucks. I did this because of the better hdr controls of the 820 that I’ve been reading about. I now use a shield pro to play all my ripped videos and it’s doing a great job. Still waiting for my x790r but I’ll be ready for it.
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post #12915 of 13975 Old 12-19-2019, 04:02 PM
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I just sold my oppo 203 yesterday, I paid 780 Canadian used it for 2.5 years and sold it for 1200. I ordered the 820 for 500 and pocketed the 700 bucks. I did this because of the better hdr controls of the 820 that I’ve been reading about. I now use a shield pro to play all my ripped videos and it’s doing a great job. Still waiting for my x790r but I’ll be ready for it.
You made the right move. The link to set that up properly is in my sig.

I just recently sold my UB820 and picked up a UB420 and pocketed the difference. For projectors they are functionally identical (420 doesn’t support Dolby Vision but neither do projectors).

I even tested disc load times and streaming times. The UB420 & UB820 are identical. The only difference I could find was the UB820 has DV support and Optical Down Sampling goes to 192kHz on the UB820 and only 96kHz on the UB420.

Unless you care about either of those things the UB420 is a better value.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
If you have a source device capable of player led DV processing, the HD Fury (via a DV LLDV EDID) will engage the Dolby Profile 5 Layer to map the source DV, HDR10, SDR signal to output a HDR10 signal with a PQ curve.

For me, only a DV, HDR10 benefit from DV LLDV. Dave and others have had success processing SDR source content as well.

On the rs540, you would use your best HDR10 setup, just as if you would with normal HDR10 source. Although I have found with my custom curves for HDR, i can run master contrast at +12 /+15 , instead the normal +2, giving max APL boost to the source content.

What does this look like? It looks like the best the ub820 with SDR2020 can do, but with improved specular highlights and a contrastier (?) look thru the luminance range (the shape of the Profile 5 Layer PQ curve).

As far as the look of the DV LLDV mid tones, upper tones and specular highlights, the only alternative that looked better on my x990, was the Lumagen with dpad 0-3, and ratio 20-28.

How did the lumagen looks better? The improved specular highlights revealed greater highlight detail. (in clouds or shiny surfaces which have subtle detail)
Most use dpad of 2 or 3 and once the new firmware comes out, many will be going to dpad of 1, maybe 2.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 12-19-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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post #12917 of 13975 Old 12-19-2019, 08:36 PM
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So, Byte, what do you think your next upgrade in PJ will be? Are you going to wait out for a reasonably priced JVC laser or the next better contrasted bulb release?

Thats a loaded question. I wish I knew where to go from here.

Last edited by catav; 12-19-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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post #12918 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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So, Byte, what do you think your next upgrade in PJ will be? Are you going to wait out for a reasonably priced JVC laser or the next better contrasted bulb release?

Thats a loaded question. I wish I knew where to go from here.
Great question...

Any step forward on a journey to replace my current projector, would have to be triggered by some point of dissatisfaction, as was the case with my old Sony 90es which lacked lens memory functions.

I currently have few points of dissatisfaction with the x990. The SDR 1080 reproduction is outstanding. The HDR 4k reproduction, while compromised as far as on board HDR management tools, does benefit from an ever growing range of satisfactory alternative HDR tone mapping solutions.

I have considered, if I found the right circumstance to sell my x990 and get something different, would I do it?

To answer that, what aspects of performance do I want to improve?

- on off contrast... one of the most endearing attributes of the x990, is native contrast sufficient to permit disabling the DI, while still maintaining an outstanding viewing experience.

- lumen output... next on my wishlist after superior native contrast, would be a significant increase in available calibrated lumens.

- expanded P3 and 2020 color space... I find this consideration less of an issue, but more would be better.

- 4k resolution... like color performance, more would be better, but I have been satisfied with the eshift 5.

- cost... I have a hard time giving the more costly current alternatives serious consideration. But I understand that is MY self imposed burden and I can appreciate others with a different perspective.

I do agree a new laser alternative would be very interesting, but only at a competitive price.

This reply may not help, but let me say, there really is no wrong decision. I do not feel like less of an HT enthusiast because I have a last generation projector. I believe we are all quite fortunate with our current circumstances.

In that spirit may I wish Happy Holidays to ALL.


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post #12919 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 11:41 AM
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Byte, thanks for the tip on HDfury for enabling DV as an option other than tone mapping. I am going to give it a try, hoping it also addresses the handshaking issues so I can get the system stable enough for my family to use without me.

Do you know if there is any consise guidance for setting up a Vertex2 with a JVC eShift projector like these? Or will I have to read 10000 posts and form my own plan?

Thanks!
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post #12920 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 11:47 AM
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Byte, thanks for the tip on HDfury for enabling DV as an option other than tone mapping. I am going to give it a try, hoping it also addresses the handshaking issues so I can get the system stable enough for my family to use without me.



Do you know if there is any consise guidance for setting up a Vertex2 with a JVC eShift projector like these? Or will I have to read 10000 posts and form my own plan?



Thanks!


There are a few of us testing this DV all with ATV4K and JVC projectors in the dedicated thread for DV hack. Dominic, atabea and myself don’t far.


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post #12921 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 11:50 AM
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There are a few of us testing this DV all with ATV4K and JVC projectors in the dedicated thread for DV hack. Dominic, atabea and myself don’t far.


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Which subforum?
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post #12922 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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Which subforum?


Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors?
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post #12923 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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Well, crap. Now that I see the thread I actually prefer the HDR10 to DV in those photos being posted. Is this not ready for primetime?

Last edited by ScottAvery; 12-20-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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post #12924 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Byte, thanks for the tip on HDfury for enabling DV as an option other than tone mapping. I am going to give it a try, hoping it also addresses the handshaking issues so I can get the system stable enough for my family to use without me.

Do you know if there is any consise guidance for setting up a Vertex2 with a JVC eShift projector like these? Or will I have to read 10000 posts and form my own plan?

Thanks!
DV LLDV capable source ->

HDFury with DV LLDV EDID ->
(use Custom with Sony A1 LLDV EDID, LG LLDV EDID or AutoMix with Force DV)

Projector set to best HDR10 curve/settings. You will note his the DV processing maps the source DV or HDR10 content to a max value of 1021 nits, permitting use of either a more aggressive curve or increasing contrast until highlight clipping.

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post #12925 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 02:45 PM
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Well, crap. Now that I see the thread I actually prefer the HDR10 to DV in those photos being posted. Is this not ready for primetime?


Try it for yourself. More of us than not are enjoying the picture quality on ATV with DV than it’s conversion from DV (most content in Netflix and some iTunes movies) to HDR10. By letting the ATV do the DV processing and dynamic tone mapping I think we are seeing some improvement that is noticeable. Again we are still experimenting but quite a few of us are seeing a “better” picture. There are some finding a red tint with skin tones as you see in those images but we are trying to figure out why.


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post #12926 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 07:51 PM
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DV LLDV capable source ->

HDFury with DV LLDV EDID ->
(use Custom with Sony A1 LLDV EDID, LG LLDV EDID or AutoMix with Force DV)

Projector set to best HDR10 curve/settings. You will note his the DV processing maps the source DV or HDR10 content to a max value of 1021 nits, permitting use of either a more aggressive curve or increasing contrast until highlight clipping.
I am interpreting this as I could change the clipping point with Arves from 1200 nits down to 1021 to get more headroom. Correct? This applies regardless of which EDID I choose or is the value determined by the specs of the device of the given donor EDID?
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post #12927 of 13975 Old 12-20-2019, 09:29 PM
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What is the highest calibrated lumens of a calibrated image with the 540U / 790X? Is Natural Mode the highest calibrated lumens? And, can any input have low latency? Thanks.
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post #12928 of 13975 Old 12-21-2019, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
I am interpreting this as I could change the clipping point with Arves from 1200 nits down to 1021 to get more headroom. Correct? This applies regardless of which EDID I choose or is the value determined by the specs of the device of the given donor EDID?
Yes, changing the clipping point down from 1200. Certainly, when you have both the 1200 and something calibrated to a lower nit value, you can easily switch between them on test content to confirm performance characteristics.

Regarding differences between the EDID options, while I have only used the Sony A1 LLDV EDID, Mark and others have noted all three current LLDV EDID options features the same Dolby data block, and there is not yet any evidence the Profile 5 Layer stream can be further manipulated, as far as how the source device will process any DV or HDR10 content.

Dave H. has noted a difference in output quality between the Sony x700 and x800m2, with the x800m2 being superior. But I have not yet heard of a difference between the oppo 203 and x800m2. One might assume the oppo would be superior in some ways but it has not been confirmed.

JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton
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post #12929 of 13975 Old 12-21-2019, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrmHomeTheater View Post
What is the highest calibrated lumens of a calibrated image with the 540U / 790X? Is Natural Mode the highest calibrated lumens? And, can any input have low latency? Thanks.
ARROW AV RS540/X7900 Test Results

Here are the best posted results to date from @arrowav posted in the Sony vs JVC thread. He has many other posts on the RS540 in that thread, which are worth searching by looking at his other posts.

Happy Holiday Movie Days


JVC DLA-X990 - 128" 2.35 1.3 Gain Screen - Vertex2 - X800M2 - UB820 - ATV4K64 - ROKU Ultra - PS4 - XBone
7.1.4 Atmos - Denon X4300H + Denon 3806(LCR) - JBL Control 5 - BIC Sub - Dayton

Last edited by Bytehoven; 12-21-2019 at 02:44 AM.
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post #12930 of 13975 Old 12-21-2019, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrmHomeTheater View Post
What is the highest calibrated lumens of a calibrated image with the 540U / 790X? Is Natural Mode the highest calibrated lumens? And, can any input have low latency? Thanks.
Low latency works on both physical inputs and with all sources, but it is greyed out for some frame rates (25p if I recall, maybe others). In those modes CMD is force enabled.
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