Official JVC - 20LTD - RS640 (x990/x9900) - RS540 (X790/x7900) - Owners Thread - Page 459 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13741 of 13982 Old 05-03-2020, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
The good thing is u can get dtm separately via PC MadVR or Lumagen , but these are not cheap, a PC MadVR will set u back 700-900USD but ull have the absolute best image possible for HDR , it is that good.
Am I correct in assuming you cannot do PC MadVR when using a PC to stream netflix or amazon prime? Can the HD Fury hack be done when streaming through a PC or is one limited to streaming through an ATV4K?
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post #13742 of 13982 Old 05-03-2020, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
I had a 400 520 then a 640 all had custom curves. It was great but then everything changed when i did the lldv hack with an hdfury vertex.. get yourself a vertex and dominic can walk you through it. Cheapest upgrade to our projectors and you will get an amazing image at all times.

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The what hack?

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post #13743 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The what hack?
You have been away...
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post #13744 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 02:23 AM
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You have been away...
Do I need it?

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post #13745 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Merlin GS View Post
Am I correct in assuming you cannot do PC MadVR when using a PC to stream netflix or amazon prime? Can the HD Fury hack be done when streaming through a PC or is one limited to streaming through an ATV4K?
yes u are correct , its only for movies played through madVR / player combo, for streaming u need a lumagen or the hack the guys are talking about i think.

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post #13746 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Merlin GS View Post
Am I correct in assuming you cannot do PC MadVR when using a PC to stream netflix or amazon prime? Can the HD Fury hack be done when streaming through a PC or is one limited to streaming through an ATV4K?
For the “hack” the player has to do Low Latency Dolby Vision (LLDV), so you need a Panasonic UB820 or Sony X700/x800M2, etc. A PC can’t do that.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-04-2020 at 04:46 PM.
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post #13747 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The what hack?
Javs I think you can use this hack for streaming..

For myself i have an apple tv along with a oppo 203.. Everything that i stream is DV and my oppo is in DV mode as well.. Everything is DV for me and I dont have to worry about changing anything on my system.. Streaming looks spectacular and I know longer have to change curves or worry if a tittle is going to be too dark or not.. For the first time everything is perfectly flawless on my system..

PERFECTO FOR ME..

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post #13748 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
For the “hack” the player has to do Low Latency Dolby Vision (LLDV), so you need a Panasonic UB420/820 or Sony X700/x800M2, etc. A PC can’t do that.
Thanks, I really did not want to purchase an ATV4K (another ecosystem to worry about). Do you have a preference between the Panasonic 820 and the Sony x800? The sole purpose will be for streaming Netflix and Amazon Prime (some youtube and maybe Disney+ in the future) using the HD Fury to an X790.
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post #13749 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Merlin GS View Post
Thanks, I really did not want to purchase an ATV4K (another ecosystem to worry about). Do you have a preference between the Panasonic 820 and the Sony x800? The sole purpose will be for streaming Netflix and Amazon Prime (some youtube and maybe Disney+ in the future) using the HD Fury to an X790.
I don’t use them for streaming so can’t provide any comparison. To me the ATV4K is vastly superior for streaming.

For disc playing, the UB820 has “HDR Optimizer” that many people like. The X800M2 converts everything to Dolby Vision, whereas the UB820 doesn’t.
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post #13750 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by filmgeek47 View Post
I’ll definitely check that out. Does it need to be the Vertex specifically? I’m a little confused on which of their processor boxes does what.

I have an original vertex for sale if interested.


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post #13751 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To me the ATV4K is vastly superior for streaming.
Of course course it had to be. My iphone using family will be happy to see me venture once again into apple world (I have avoided the ecosystem since the first iphone and my ipod days). I have so many different OS in my household I have lost count. Thanks a lot Dominic, I really appreciate your help.

Edit:typo

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post #13752 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
For the “hack” the player has to do Low Latency Dolby Vision (LLDV), so you need a Panasonic UB420/820 or Sony X700/x800M2, etc. A PC can’t do that.
Unless I'm very mistaken, the Panasonic UB420 does not do Dolby Vision. The UB820 does.

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post #13753 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 04:45 PM
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Unless I'm very mistaken, the Panasonic UB420 does not do Dolby Vision. The UB820 does.
You're right.

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post #13754 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Merlin GS View Post
Of course course it had to be. My iphone using family will be happy to see venture once again into apple world (I have avoided the ecosystem since the first iphone and my ipod days). I have some many different OS in my household I have lost count. Thanks a lot Dominic, I really appreciate your help.
I believe the nVidia Shield TV and Amazon Fire TV will also work.

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post #13755 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 08:17 PM
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Dominic,

First a big thank you to you and everyone else that put so much time into "figuring out" the LLDV hack. It seems like it was a great collaboration between many members here along with the HDFury team.

I do have a few questions as I know things have evolved quite a bit since I originally looked into doing this:

1. When using the AppleTV do you have to force Dolby Vision to be always on in the menu or just have the standard match frame rate and content settings appropriate? While most streaming content via Netflix and Apple will be Dolby Vision, there are still a number of items that will be HDR10. How does the hack handle this situation?

2. With regards to the Panasonic 820 I have similar questions. If Dolby Vision is enabled then only DV titles will take advantage of LLDV correct? Will HDR10 titles pass through and use the HDR Optimizer? I would assume you should not use SDR 2020 if doing the LLDV hack?

TIA!
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post #13756 of 13982 Old 05-04-2020, 08:38 PM
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1. When using the AppleTV do you have to force Dolby Vision to be always on in the menu or just have the standard match frame rate and content settings appropriate? While most streaming content via Netflix and Apple will be Dolby Vision, there are still a number of items that will be HDR10. How does the hack handle this situation?
If you select Dolby Vision and set Match Range to OFF, then everything (SDR and HDR10) will be converted to DV. If you set Match Range to ON, then nothing is "forced" - HDR10 will be played as HDR10.

Quote:
2. With regards to the Panasonic 820 I have similar questions. If Dolby Vision is enabled then only DV titles will take advantage of LLDV correct? Will HDR10 titles pass through and use the HDR Optimizer? I would assume you should not use SDR 2020 if doing the LLDV hack?
The UB820 will not do any conversion, HDR10 will be played as HDR10 and HDR Optimizer will function as usual.
I don't know what it does when you select SDR/BT2020 when the title is DV.

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post #13757 of 13982 Old 05-06-2020, 11:16 AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. Not sure what this Hd fury hack is but I may need to read more about it.

Also, I know this Chad B is revered on here. Not sure what his schedule is but I hear he lives just about an hour from me here in Cincinnati.
Getting it calibrated would open up your eyes to just how amazing the 540 is for HDR. Chad B is one of the best, but it could take some time to get an appointment.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...post-here.html
I emailed ChadB yesterday. He emailed me back today and said he could come tomorrow! Lol
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post #13758 of 13982 Old 05-06-2020, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The Integral 2 is essentially a Vertex less the OLED display, so it should work too.
Just bought an integral 2, and getting into the setup.

Dominic, I assume you’ve played with doing a third curve type for ~500nit HDR movies like Manni has. What was your experience with that? Looking at some of the spreadsheets it seems like there’s a bunch of movies with relatively low peak nit values that would benefit from their own curve, but you and Javs obviously don’t link to anything similar.

EDIT: Looked at your curve link again and noticed the 500nit curves intended for the Panasonic optimizer setup. Do you think the SC variant would be worth trying as a standard gamma curve without an external tone mapper? If not, do you think I’d get good results simply tweaking down one of your existing curves to clip at 500?

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post #13759 of 13982 Old 05-06-2020, 05:36 PM
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I emailed ChadB yesterday. He emailed me back today and said he could come tomorrow! Lol
That’s awesome! You will be amazed with the results.
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post #13760 of 13982 Old 05-07-2020, 11:40 AM
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I believe the nVidia Shield TV and Amazon Fire TV will also work.
It was my understanding that the Shield (I have the 2017, but I assume you are talking about the 2019) cannot force DV, which as I understand it is a critical step. (and yes I would prefer buying a new Shield )
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post #13761 of 13982 Old 05-07-2020, 11:46 AM
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It was my understanding that the Shield (I have the 2017, but I assume you are talking about the 2019) cannot force DV, which as I understand it is a critical step. (and yes I would prefer buying a new Shield )
When I referred to “will also work”, that did not mean forcing DV. The UB820 does not force DV either.
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post #13762 of 13982 Old 05-08-2020, 05:18 AM
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I've mostly just been enjoying the 540 I got two years ago, but as we get more material released in HDR, I've been finding that we're watching during "family movie night" with lights on more often than we used to, so I've gotten a bit frustrated at times with dark scenes. So I got back up to speed with Arve's tool and added an "HDR Day" picture mode with some different settings and the (newer) 85-nit curves.


But I'm still thinking I will be happier with a tone mapping solution. I currently use an Xbox for UHD player. So I think my options are:

- Keep Xbox, add Linker. DV discs can be tone mapped using Linker with LLDV
- Get UB820: all HDR discs are tone mapped by UB820
- Get X700 + Linker: both DV and HDR discs are converted to LLDV and tone mapped using Linker

My impression is the UB820 solution is somewhat plug and play (just load the right curve using the JVC tool. I don't see an arve curve that matches what it supposedly expects). Would still want separate picture modes/curves for "day" vs night viewing.

Anyway, the X700+Linker (or even Vertex) is no more than the UB820. Is there a reason to prefer the UB820 over the other solution (supposedly panasonic worked with JVC on it)? My impression is the mapping they're doing is roughly the same. I'm a bit unclear what gamma curve should be used with the LLDV solution, though.

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post #13763 of 13982 Old 05-08-2020, 06:07 AM
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My impression is the UB820 solution is somewhat plug and play (just load the right curve using the JVC tool. I don't see an arve curve that matches what it supposedly expects). Would still want separate picture modes/curves for "day" vs night viewing.
If you get the UB820 the easiest option is to set the player to output "SDR/BT2020", and set the projector to gamma 2.4 (or gamm 2.2 for day viewing).

Quote:
I'm a bit unclear what gamma curve should be used with the LLDV solution, though.
You can use the same gamma for LLDV as for HDR10, although depending on the "Max Luminance" setting in the "hack" you may want to use a slightly brighter curve. For day viewing you may want to try one of my curves with 0.005 nits Black Compensation (see link in my signature).

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post #13764 of 13982 Old 05-10-2020, 08:08 AM
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Bulb Life?

JVC's bulbs are listed as having a "life" of 3500 hours. My calibrator confirmed, but added "at 3500 hours, light output will be 50% of what it was when new". That makes sense to me, but I'd like to hear what other users have experienced. When the bulb for my X790r was about 5 months old, I measured it as outputting 265 Lux, which translates to 26.83 Ftl on my 110" Vutec 1.1 gain screen (see below sig for other system info). After comments from my wife that many films, particularly UHD and 3D titles, were "too dark", I remeasured the light output. The bulb now has 2300 hours on it. It now measures 214 Lux, which translates to 21.66 ftl. I run our projector in low lamp mode except for 3D titles. My calibrator confirmed that it's probably time to replace the bulb. Would any of you agree or disagree? I should add that this is our 3rd JVC projector and I'd replaced the bulb on a previous model and immediately noted the increased output. Thanks for any input.

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post #13765 of 13982 Old 05-10-2020, 09:13 AM
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Looking for projects, I have been playing with a spreadsheet to allow graphing of various .jgd and .conf curves, with conversion between them and some low end adjustments.
Recently added c-spline code from Doug Jenkins that makes the interpolation a bit more accurate, sometimes.

I haven't finished coding all the functionality, and I am sure that from a pure accuracy perspective, this is not the perfect tool, but I am having fun comparing and playing with some of the fantastic curves that are out there.

Happy to share, once it is a bit closer to being fully functional.

Import .conf curve from clipboard


Import .jgd curve from clipboard


Adjust low end of curve


Graph upto 12 .jgd plus 12 .conf plus 12 adjusted curves
.jgd curves can be displayed with interpolation or linearly



Zoom in on any area of the curve for more detail
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post #13766 of 13982 Old 05-11-2020, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johng View Post
JVC's bulbs are listed as having a "life" of 3500 hours. My calibrator confirmed, but added "at 3500 hours, light output will be 50% of what it was when new". That makes sense to me, but I'd like to hear what other users have experienced. When the bulb for my X790r was about 5 months old, I measured it as outputting 265 Lux, which translates to 26.83 Ftl on my 110" Vutec 1.1 gain screen (see below sig for other system info). After comments from my wife that many films, particularly UHD and 3D titles, were "too dark", I remeasured the light output. The bulb now has 2300 hours on it. It now measures 214 Lux, which translates to 21.66 ftl. I run our projector in low lamp mode except for 3D titles. My calibrator confirmed that it's probably time to replace the bulb. Would any of you agree or disagree? I should add that this is our 3rd JVC projector and I'd replaced the bulb on a previous model and immediately noted the increased output. Thanks for any input.
I have switched to running in hi lamp mode for everything. Low lamp had become dim, and rather than switch to a new lamp, I wanted to see how long I could run hi lamp before I became dissatisfied. So far so good.

I have a spare bulb from Dominic and a spare full lamp and cage ready to go. I may try to see if I can hold out until I get the lamp replacement warning.

No doubt some of my calibration specs have slipped, but not so much as to be apparent to the eye.

If you do decide to upgrade early, keep the old lamp as an emergency spare lamp.

Good luck with your decision.

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post #13767 of 13982 Old 05-11-2020, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I have switched to running in hi lamp mode for everything. Low lamp had become dim, and rather than switch to a new lamp, I wanted to see how long I could run hi lamp before I became dissatisfied. So far so good.

I have a spare bulb from Dominic and a spare full lamp and cage ready to go. I may try to see if I can hold out until I get the lamp replacement warning.

No doubt some of my calibration specs have slipped, but not so much as to be apparent to the eye.

If you do decide to upgrade early, keep the old lamp as an emergency spare lamp.

Good luck with your decision.
Hi-Lamp Mode is a bit too distracting (i.e. Loud) for me as anything but a short term solution. My calibrator found a new PK-L2615U bulb & cage for under $400, so I placed the order. As you suggest, the current lamp will move to a 'back-up' status and will be ready in case some disaster happens. I've contacted Dominic and am on his waiting list. With the supply chain problems due to the current health crisis, it can't hurt to have a little redundancy. Thanks for your suggestions!

Good Viewing,John G  JVC DLA-X790 Projector, Vutec 110" (16x9) Bright White Screen, Panasonic DP-UB420, Zappiti Mini4K HDR, Zidoo Z9s, Synology DS418 NAS, Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR, Toshiba 1250 NTSC-PAL Region Free BR Player, 7 Paradigm Reference spkrs w Dual Subs,   & Yamaha 6600 External Amp
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post #13768 of 13982 Old 05-11-2020, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anevard View Post
Looking for projects, I have been playing with a spreadsheet to allow graphing of various .jgd and .conf curves, with conversion between them and some low end adjustments.
Recently added c-spline code from Doug Jenkins that makes the interpolation a bit more accurate, sometimes.
Have you compared your conversion with the conversion done by the projector itself?

Given that Arve's Tool is the default standard for generating custom curves, I think extending the tool to cover black compensation would be of interest to many.

JVC DLA-X550R; Denon AVR-X3400H; HD Fury Linker / Vertex 2; ATV4K; Sony UBP-X700
JVC Curves; Optimizing HDR;
Creating a basic HDR curve using Arve’s Tool;
Replacing JVC Bare Bulbs

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-11-2020 at 08:08 AM.
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post #13769 of 13982 Old 05-11-2020, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I have switched to running in hi lamp mode for everything. Low lamp had become dim, and rather than switch to a new lamp, I wanted to see how long I could run hi lamp before I became dissatisfied. So far so good.

I have a spare bulb from Dominic and a spare full lamp and cage ready to go. I may try to see if I can hold out until I get the lamp replacement warning.

No doubt some of my calibration specs have slipped, but not so much as to be apparent to the eye.

If you do decide to upgrade early, keep the old lamp as an emergency spare lamp.

Good luck with your decision.
The gamut generally widens a reasonable amount on these units from switching to high lamp (and the white point shifts), so it is definitely worth revisiting the calibration. I think my whitepoint shifts sufficiently to result in over 3dE2000 difference from high to low lamp.
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post #13770 of 13982 Old 05-11-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johng View Post
JVC's bulbs are listed as having a "life" of 3500 hours. My calibrator confirmed, but added "at 3500 hours, light output will be 50% of what it was when new". That makes sense to me, but I'd like to hear what other users have experienced. When the bulb for my X790r was about 5 months old, I measured it as outputting 265 Lux, which translates to 26.83 Ftl on my 110" Vutec 1.1 gain screen (see below sig for other system info). After comments from my wife that many films, particularly UHD and 3D titles, were "too dark", I remeasured the light output. The bulb now has 2300 hours on it. It now measures 214 Lux, which translates to 21.66 ftl. I run our projector in low lamp mode except for 3D titles. My calibrator confirmed that it's probably time to replace the bulb. Would any of you agree or disagree? I should add that this is our 3rd JVC projector and I'd replaced the bulb on a previous model and immediately noted the increased output. Thanks for any input.
Don’t forget you can adjust the iris over time to compensate for brightness loss.
I started at -5 then -4 at about 100hours.
The. -3 at 400. I’m now at -2 for 1000 hours and tell you what 0 looks like a torchlight. It’s actually to bright at 1000 hours but I’m sure at 2000 iris 0 will look good. I think you lose like 10-20 percent brightness in the first 100 hours. I’m not sure but I think so. But having dynamic iris is great for maintaining a set brightness over a longer time. I have the same projector as you. Btw just in case you don’t know you can still use auto iris but you manually set the max value then select auto 1 or 2.
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