Lumens (Brightness) for New JVC's (RS440/540/640) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Lumens (Brightness) for New JVC's (RS440/540/640)

Several people had posted much lower numbers than the previous year (as low as 300 lumens less, but averaging say 100-200)...
I was thinking we should have a separate thread for this to keep track of it to see if this is really an issue or just something of an anomaly (bad lamp run?).

If anyone has measurement data, it may help to just post here so we do not end up reading through hundreds of pages of past posts to try to dig the data up.

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post #2 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Several people had posted much lower numbers than the previous year (as low as 300 lumens less, but averaging say 100-200)...
I was thinking we should have a separate thread for this to keep track of it to see if this is really an issue or just something of an anomaly (bad lamp run?).

If anyone has measurement data, it may help to just post here so we do not end up reading through hundreds of pages of past posts to try to dig the data up.
Also, they should post -
1 - hours on lamp.
2- light meter used.
3 - screen size they are shooting the 100 IRE test pattern on.
4 - throw distance used for said screen.
5 - lux reading.
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post #3 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Sorry to clutter the Sony thread BUT the X9500 AND X7500 i have here are brighter than the X9900 i also have here???
Even swapped the bulb from the X7500 ( it had zero hours on it) to the X9900 and the X9900 was still dimmer......sort of takes the bulb out of the equation???
re-posting this here, it would be interesting to hear additional info on this test.
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post #4 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Several people had posted much lower numbers than the previous year (as low as 300 lumens less, but averaging say 100-200)...
I was thinking we should have a separate thread for this to keep track of it to see if this is really an issue or just something of an anomaly (bad lamp run?).

If anyone has measurement data, it may help to just post here so we do not end up reading through hundreds of pages of past posts to try to dig the data up.
Please kindly list the "several people"?

Are you referring to anyone further to:

(1) ARROW-AV
(2) Javs
(3) Woofer?

Just so you know I have further information regarding this matter including information provided to us directly by JVC...

But first of all I need to know is there anyone else in addition to this?

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post #5 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
re-posting this here, it would be interesting to hear additional info on this test.
Here's some additional info... According to @woofer , whom I am sure that he won't mind my saying so, the projected video image did not in fact actually look any dimmer.

Also, I think that it is important to note that he had changed the projector's input setting to SUPERWHITE which reduces peak luminance with 100 IRE by circa 20%

With respect to the units which we measured, these are both nicely run in now and we factory reset both projectors, then recalibrated them both and we now measure only a circa 8% difference in peak luminance. Something which is certainly not outside of tolerance.

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post #6 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

Just so you know I have further information regarding this matter including information provided to us directly by JVC...
what is the info from JVC?
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post #7 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
what is the info from JVC?
I had a very interesting 30 minute telephone conversation with one of the senior guys within the technical division of JVC who basically explained that it's quite simply not possible for there to be a difference between the two models with respect to peak luminance outside of inter-unit variance.

I am awaiting an email confirming matters in writing and as soon as I receive it I will post it on here. JVC knows that I will be publishing it and have authorized me to do so.

Let's wait and see what they say...

What I can say right now is that JVC said that if someone correctly/accurately measures more than 20% lower peak luminance, without any influencing factors skewing the results, then that unit is defective and should be returned for evaluation.



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post #8 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I had a very interesting 30 minute telephone conversation with one of the senior guys within the technical division of JVC who basically explained that it's quite simply not possible for there to be a difference between the two models.

I am awaiting an email confirming matters in writing and as soon as I receive it I will post it on here. JVC knows that I will be publishing it and have authorized me to do so.

Let's wait and see what they say...

.
what was the lumen output of the new JVC's you have been testing?

This member is seeing ~ 1100 lumens in high lamp

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55140260
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post #9 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
what was the lumen output of the new JVC's you have been testing?

This member is seeing ~ 1100 lumens in high lamp

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55140260
JVC DLA-X9500/RS620 = 1,469 Lumens

JVC DLA-X9900/RS640 = 1,353 Lumens

Calibrated. High Lamp. Iris Wide Open.

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post #10 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
JVC DLA-X9500/RS620 = 1,469 Lumens

JVC DLA-X9900/RS640 = 1,353 Lumens

Calibrated. High Lamp. Iris Wide Open.

Ok this is different now, I have seen people post that the JVC is 1200 in low calibrated and 1600 in high, in fact I believe when someone was asking about the Sony vs the JVC one of the comments was that the JVC is as bright in low and the Sony is in high.
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post #11 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:43 PM
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post #12 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
JVC DLA-X9500/RS620 = 1,469 Lumens

JVC DLA-X9900/RS640 = 1,353 Lumens

Calibrated. High Lamp. Iris Wide Open.

over 20% difference from a 4th reporter.

hopefully just some bad lamps out there. folks should continue to report in as more units are delivered.
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post #13 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Please kindly list the "several people"?

Are you referring to anyone further to:

(1) ARROW-AV
(2) Javs
(3) Woofer?

Just so you know I have further information regarding this matter including information provided to us directly by JVC...

But first of all I need to know is there anyone else in addition to this?

kaotikr1 posted LUX readings in the Sony 385 thread, hes part of this thread now too ^. He is well short of where his 9900 should be OOTB.

OOTB JVC 9900.

110" Screen 14.5ft throw (This equates to 6-7% less possible peak light output vs min throw according to Coderguys awesome new PJ Calculator)

The JVC in the Natural mode was 1058 Lumens

The JVC in torch high bright mode was 1439 Lumens

By comparison, his Sony 385 at 13.5ft throw was doing 1245 Lumens.

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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
over 20% difference from a 4th reporter.

hopefully just some bad lamps out there. folks should continue to report in as more units are delivered.
One thing JVC did tell me is that there are a load of generic lamps that have been and are being used with JVC projectors which produce different light output.

Said generic lamps were/are being used with the JVC projectors... NOT by JVC themselves, so JVC are NOT shipping the projectors with generic lamps, they are being fitted afterwards by people.

It could simply be this...

.

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post #15 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
One thing JVC did tell me is that there are a load of generic lamps that have been and are being used which produce different light output.

It could simply be this...

.
Wait, so JVC has a batch of generic lamps going out in there hand picked RS640s?
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post #16 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
kaotikr1 posted LUX readings in the Sony 385 thread, hes part of this thread now too ^. He is well short of where his 9900 should be OOTB.

OOTB JVC 9900.

110" Screen 14.5ft throw (This equates to 6-7% less possible peak light output vs min throw according to Coderguys awesome new PJ Calculator)

The JVC in the Natural mode was 1058 Lumens

The JVC in torch high bright mode was 1439 Lumens

By comparison, his Sony 385 at 13.5ft throw was doing 1245 Lumens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
over 20% difference from a 4th reporter.

hopefully just some bad lamps out there. folks should continue to report in as more units are delivered.
As I mentioned ^^^ JVC have said that if someone correctly and accurately measures more than 20% lower peak luminance, with respect to a brand new X9900/RS640 unit as compared with an X9500/RS620 without any influencing factors skewing the results, then that unit is defective and should be returned for evaluation.
.
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post #17 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:53 PM
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My X9900, absolute min throw. 120" screen area. less than 15 hours on the lamp at time of measurement.

High Bright Mode / SDR No filter / High Lamp / Iris Open - 355 LUX - 1398lm

D6500 calibrated mode - 302 LUX - 1193lm

Oh, and my 9500, with 800 hours on it...

High Bright Mode / SDR No filter / High Lamp / Iris Open - 377 LUX - 1484lm

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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
Wait, so JVC has a batch of generic lamps going out in there hand picked RS640s?
No, I did not say that...

I said that generic lamps were/are being used with the JVC projectors...

Not by JVC themselves...

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post #19 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
One thing JVC did tell me is that there are a load of generic lamps that have been and are being used which produce different light output.

It could simply be this...

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
Wait, so JVC has a batch of generic lamps going out in there hand picked RS640s?
Oh boy..please tell clarify ARROW-AV. That could totally be taken the wrong way as it sounds like you are saying JVC factory installed generic lamps. I know that can't be right????
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
Ok this is different now, I have seen people post that the JVC is 1200 in low calibrated and 1600 in high, in fact I believe when someone was asking about the Sony vs the JVC one of the comments was that the JVC is as bright in low and the Sony is in high.
2 generations ago this was common 1100 low / 1600+ high. My RS600 was 1700+ D65 @ mid throw with new lamp measured with a calibrated Minolta T10.

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Oh boy..please tell clarify ARROW-AV. That could totally be taken the wrong way as it sounds like you are saying JVC factory installed generic lamps. I know that can't be right????
Already beat you to it

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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
No, I did not say that...

I said that generic lamps were/are being used with the JVC projectors...

Not by JVC themselves...

Well that makes zero sense, are you implying that WE are taking brand new projectors, taking out the bulb so we can put a new generic one in just so it will report lower?
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
No, I did not say that...

I said that generic lamps were/are being used with the JVC projectors...

Not by JVC themselves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Already beat you to it

Thank you Sir. However, we are talking about a brand new model just put into people's hands in the last few weeks. These folks aren't going to be using anything but the factory lamp they received it with. I have no doubt this could be the case with previous generation models as people naturally replace their bulbs.
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
Well that makes zero sense, are you implying that WE are taking brand new projectors, taking out the bulb so we can put a new generic one in just so it will report lower?
No I did not say that either...

What happens when a lamp needs replacing?

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No I did not say that either...

What happens when a lamp needs replacing?

I guess I am just confused why you would even bring up that scenario. I could see if we are talking about projectors from 2 generations ago. This thread is about low possible brightness on new just released projectors and you bring up something about generic bulbs being used and that could cause it.

While I get what you are saying, it does seem like your implying that the generic bulbs could be why the lower numbers are reporting....
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Thank you Sir. However, we are talking about a brand new model just put into people's hands in the last few weeks. These folks aren't going to be using anything but the factory lamp they received it with. I have no doubt this could be the case with previous generation models as people naturally replace their bulbs.
To clarify, the generic bulbs are initially BRIGHTER... However, their lifespan is much reduced.

So if someone was to have installed one into an X9500/RS620 because the lamp needed replacing and then compared this with a brand new X9900/RS640 then this would create the illusion that the X9900/RS640 is dimmer, when in fact it is not; it's because of the difference with respect to the lamp performance.

Case in point, we directly compared brand new X9900/RS640 with brand new X9500/RS620 and did not have a statistically significant difference in peak luminence performance, in that the respective measurements are within normal tolerance.


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post #27 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
kaotikr1 posted LUX readings in the Sony 385 thread, hes part of this thread now too ^. He is well short of where his 9900 should be OOTB.

OOTB JVC 9900.

110" Screen 14.5ft throw (This equates to 6-7% less possible peak light output vs min throw according to Coderguys awesome new PJ Calculator)

The JVC in the Natural mode was 1058 Lumens

The JVC in torch high bright mode was 1439 Lumens

By comparison, his Sony 385 at 13.5ft throw was doing 1245 Lumens.
That's not the same as moving it up to 11' and measuring it. Also, was Superwhite on ?

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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
I guess I am just confused why you would even bring up that scenario. I could see if we are talking about projectors from 2 generations ago. This thread is about low possible brightness on new just released projectors and you bring up something about generic bulbs being used and that could cause it.

While I get what you are saying, it does seem like your implying that the generic bulbs could be why the lower numbers are reporting....
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That's not the same as moving it up to 11' and measuring it. Also, was Superwhite on ?
Kaotik, did you have superwhite on mate when you took those measurements? Or was everything on Auto on the 2nd Settings screen?

superwhite will kill alot of peak output if you manually switch it on. If you didnt touch anything there it should be on Auto and thus the proper range.

I agree, I dont know why we are now suggesting users are putting generic light bulbs on zero hour JVC's.

In fact, I dont even know anyone on the forum using generic bulbs period. Certainly none who are reporting these light issues.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
To clarify, the generic bulbs are initially BRIGHTER... However, their lifespan is much reduced.

So if someone was to have installed one into an X9500/RS620 because the lamp needed replacing and then compared this with a brand new X9900/RS640 then this would create the illusion that the X9900/RS640 is dimmer, when in fact it is not; it's because of the difference with respect to the lamp performance.

Case in point, we directly compared brand new X9900/RS640 with brand new X9500/RS620 and did not have a statistically significant difference in peak luminence performance, in that the respective measurements are within normal tolerance.

Nigel, you have said a few times now that you have installed and measured a handful of these units and calibrated them, that means you would have peak light readings on each one right? Can you share some more data?

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post #30 of 261 Old 11-17-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Nigel, you have said a few times now that you have installed and measured a handful of these units and calibrated them, that means you would have peak light readings on each one right? Can you share some more data?
I think he's going to try and pull together a report over the weekend.
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