Official Optoma UHZ65 Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1518 Old 12-02-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
See idk about that statement. It has better native resolution then the UHZ65, it has the newer 4k dual chip, it has blue and red laser.
Sometimes these business presentation projectors are built with better and more quality overall hardware.

If the dell has the same motion and sharpness as the UHZ65 i'd go for it all day long. I dont get how they make better native resolution then the UHZ65 on the dell but dynamic only 100,000:1 you'de figure with some laser on off tricks they can easily get much more and then sell a crazy 1,000,000:1 number.
The UHZ65 with dynamic black set to DB2 is the best contrast you are going to get for any DLP 4k projector under $10k currently, period.

Next year we might see some dual lasers optimized for high contrast but not yet.
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post #32 of 1518 Old 12-02-2017, 11:41 PM
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Getting the most out of the UHZ65:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
The UHZ65 with dynamic black set to DB2 is the best contrast you are going to get for any DLP 4k projector under $10k currently, period.

Next year we might see some dual lasers optimized for high contrast but not yet.
Thanks for the hint about the DB2 setting. I spent some time with that tonight and it is really nice.

The biggest change to the system though has been switching from my copper wire HDMI cable to a fiber optic cable tonight.

In my setup, the difference is wonderful. Color purity and subtlety are brought to the next level. Detail clarity is much finer. My adjustments with the copper cable got me pretty close to what I was looking for. Switching to fiber required some minor adjustment corrections, but now I am completely thrilled with the picture quality.

Lucy and Pacific Rim are the two movies I spent time with during my adjustments. I am now completely happy with the UHZ65 and the Oppo 205.

For those interested (On Amazon US). These are not links, but you can paste the description into the search bar on Amazon and find them.
=======================
The fiber cable:
RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m

USB power adapter for the fiber cable transmitter/receiver:
RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch)

AC power adapter:
C2G/Cables to Go 42223 HHDMIVoltage Inserter, Black
==================================

The UHZ65 conveniently has a USB power port clearly labeled with all the other I/O ports at the back of the projector. I bought four of each adapter because I have two HDMI sources that I wanted to electrically isolate. A good thing, because it seems that one of the USB adapters died within ten seconds of providing the first images. Swapping in another adapter resolved the issue.

I notice that Amazon seems to be out of the Ruipro branded USB adapter at the moment, but there are others that promise the same functionality. I purchased the AC adapters just in case I needed them, and it seems that the Oppo 205 USB ports do not provide power.

Another note: The fiber optic cables seem to be very well constructed, but pay attention to the very fine lettering at each end that specifies "Display" and "Source". I discovered that this does matter.

I can not promise that everyone will see the same improvement that I do, but I will never be without a fiber connection again.

Last edited by DigitalGrease; 12-03-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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post #33 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
Thanks for the hint about the DB2 setting. I spent some time with that tonight and it is really nice.

The biggest change to the system though has been switching from my copper wire HDMI cable to a fiber optic cable tonight.

In my setup, the difference is wonderful. Color purity and subtlety are brought to the next level. Detail clarity is much finer. My adjustments with the copper cable got me pretty close to what I was looking for. Switching to fiber required some minor adjustment corrections, but now I am completely thrilled with the picture quality.

Lucy and Pacific Rim are the two movies I spent time with during my adjustments. I am now completely happy with the UHZ65 and the Oppo 205.

For those interested (On Amazon US). These are not links, but you can paste the description into the search bar on Amazon and find them.
=======================
The fiber cable:
RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Slim and Flexible With Optic Technology 10m

USB power adapter for the fiber cable transmitter/receiver:
RUIPRO USB Powered mini HDMI Voltage Inserter, Black (usb cable L: 20 inch)

AC power adapter:
C2G/Cables to Go 42223 HHDMIVoltage Inserter, Black
==================================

The UHZ65 conveniently has a USB power port clearly labeled with all the other I/O ports at the back of the projector. I bought four of each adapter because I have two HDMI sources that I wanted to electrically isolate. A good thing, because it seems that one of the USB adapters died within ten seconds of providing the first images. Swapping in another adapter resolved the issue.

I notice that Amazon seems to be out of the Ruipro branded USB adapter at the moment, but there are others that promise the same functionality. I purchased the AC adapters just in case I needed them, and it seems that the Oppo 205 USB ports do not provide power.

Another note: The fiber optic cables seem to be very well constructed, but pay attention to the very fine lettering at each end that specifies "Display" and "Source". I discovered that this does matter.

I can not promise that everyone will see the same improvement that I do, but I will never be without a fiber connection again.

Very interesting post, im also using the UHZ65 with oppo 205 im using these hdmi cables - https://www.amazon.com/Audioquest-Ci...Quest+Cinnamon

the fiber cable your using from amazon is only available at 33ft i was not able to find a 3ft fiber hdmi cable at all.

also when you are using the "C2G/Cables to Go 42223 HHDMIVoltage Inserter, Black" do you only isolate that last hdmi connection between the oppo and the UHZ65 ? you would think oppo have their own HDMI connector isolation and voltage limiter from their main Monitor out hdmi ?
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post #34 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 07:16 AM
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Set mine up last night, 150" screen.

Played with settings. Color is amazing, I see no RBE, sharpness is legit, and contrast is wayyy better than the UHD60 o had set up.

Playing Cuphead, then some PS4 Pro, this is the first projector that I said "god dsmn this is bright"

Much brighter than the UHD60.

Is it worth $4,000? Well lack of 3D is the only real drawback here. Otherwise it's the real deal. HDR pops like a boss, will play with some more today.
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post #35 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornsk57 View Post
Set mine up last night, 150" screen.

Played with settings. Color is amazing, I see no RBE, sharpness is legit, and contrast is wayyy better than the UHD60 o had set up.

Playing Cuphead, then some PS4 Pro, this is the first projector that I said "god dsmn this is bright"

Much brighter than the UHD60.

Is it worth $4,000? Well lack of 3D is the only real drawback here. Otherwise it's the real deal. HDR pops like a boss, will play with some more today.
Good to hear.

So this projector is bright enough to do HDR without the massive gamma adjustments most other pjs require? I'd throw on Goodfellas 4k uhd BD with dynamic black DB2 as a torture test to see how it handles the very low brightness and pervading blacks. I've seen a lot of OLED users claim its extremely dim with the default LG gamma, so would be interested if the UHZ65 could power through it or not.

Last edited by Ruined; 12-03-2017 at 10:34 AM.
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post #36 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
Very interesting post, im also using the UHZ65 with oppo 205 im using these hdmi cables - https://www.amazon.com/Audioquest-Ci...Quest+Cinnamon

the fiber cable your using from amazon is only available at 33ft i was not able to find a 3ft fiber hdmi cable at all.

also when you are using the "C2G/Cables to Go 42223 HHDMIVoltage Inserter, Black" do you only isolate that last hdmi connection between the oppo and the UHZ65 ? you would think oppo have their own HDMI connector isolation and voltage limiter from their main Monitor out hdmi ?
I replied to your PM as well, but others may be interested in the response, so here it is with a bit more background.

The length of the fiber cable in this range has negligible impact on video quality and it is a nice, lightweight, compact coil. It comes with three Velcro straps to keep the extra coiled length neatly controlled.

If you are using a 3 ft HDMI cable, you are probably going into an A/V receiver or something similar. I would suggest that you try the experiment of going direct from the Oppo to the UHZ65 to get the maximum image quality. Anything you put in the middle will have some subtle (or not so subtle) effect on the image and sound quality. I am going direct to the projector with fiber and using the XLR outputs to a Manley Labs transformer isolated input tube preamp that drives an amplifier and speakers. Sonic and optical nirvana, at least for my taste.

I have found that transformer isolated audio inputs will (generally) improve sound quality through galvanic isolation, removing ground loops etc. The same thing applies to HDMI inputs, in my opinion. This could be especially relevant when you have widely separated AC power outlets. I've been doing this a long time, probably since the Jurassic period, and I have had these issues bite me too often to just roll the dice and assume there are no problems. Many people believe they have no issues to worry about, but they never tested these mitigating techniques to see the improvement. Again, you might be lucky with a basic setup and you might not get a perceptible improvement by going the extra distance.

Regarding your question about isolating both ends of the fiber cable, yes both ends need the adapters that isolate and provide supplemental power. I do not think the HDMI standard allows for power to be supplied through the HDMI port, or if it does, that it might not be sufficient for these little optical transceivers.
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post #37 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Good to hear.

So this projector is bright enough to do HDR without the massive gamma adjustments most other pjs require? I'd throw on Goodfellas 4k uhd BD with dynamic black DB2 as a torture test to see how it handles the very low brightness and pervading blacks. I've seen a lot of OLED users claim its extremely dim with the default LG gamma, so would be interested if the UHZ65 could power through it or not.
My understanding is that there are very few displays available that can display the full HDR brightness. This means that virtually every affordable display will be tone-mapping the HDR signal to fit within the capabilities of the display. The 4K HDR Bluray players are also electronically aware of this and, at least in the Oppo 205, there is a setting where you can enter the Nit (maximum output level) of your display. The Oppo automatically recognizes the UHZ65 as a 300 Nit device.

I found this helpful piece on
https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...htness-4125499
=================================================
When comparing Nits to Lumens, in simple terms, 1 Nit represents more light than 1 ANSI lumen. The mathematical difference between Nits and Lumens is complex. However, for the consumer comparing a TV with a video projector, one way put it is 1 Nit is the approximate equivalent of 3.426 ANSI Lumens.

Using that reference point, in order to determine what a specific number of Nits is comparable to a specific number of ANSI lumens, you multiply the number of Nits by 3.426.

If you want to do the reverse (you know the lumens and want to find out its equivalent in Nits), then you would divide the number of Lumens by 3.426.

Here are some examples:

200 Nits is the equivalent of about 685 ANSI Lumens
500 Nits is comparable to about 1,713 ANSI Lumens
730 Nits is comparable to about 2,500 ANSI Lumens
1,000 Nits is comparable to about 3,426 ANSI Lumens
1,500 Nits is comparable to about 5,139 ANSI Lumens
2,000 Nits is comparable to about 6,582 ANSI Lumens
===============================================

Using this chart, I believe 300 Nits is probably right for the UHZ65. A very satisfying result to my taste, but nowhere near full HDR Nits from what I understand.
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post #38 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
My understanding is that there are very few displays available that can display the full HDR brightness. This means that virtually every affordable display will be tone-mapping the HDR signal to fit within the capabilities of the display. The 4K HDR Bluray players are also electronically aware of this and, at least in the Oppo 205, there is a setting where you can enter the Nit (maximum output level) of your display. The Oppo automatically recognizes the UHZ65 as a 300 Nit device.

I found this helpful piece on
https://www.lifewire.com/understandi...htness-4125499
=================================================
When comparing Nits to Lumens, in simple terms, 1 Nit represents more light than 1 ANSI lumen. The mathematical difference between Nits and Lumens is complex. However, for the consumer comparing a TV with a video projector, one way put it is 1 Nit is the approximate equivalent of 3.426 ANSI Lumens.

Using that reference point, in order to determine what a specific number of Nits is comparable to a specific number of ANSI lumens, you multiply the number of Nits by 3.426.

If you want to do the reverse (you know the lumens and want to find out its equivalent in Nits), then you would divide the number of Lumens by 3.426.

Here are some examples:

200 Nits is the equivalent of about 685 ANSI Lumens
500 Nits is comparable to about 1,713 ANSI Lumens
730 Nits is comparable to about 2,500 ANSI Lumens
1,000 Nits is comparable to about 3,426 ANSI Lumens
1,500 Nits is comparable to about 5,139 ANSI Lumens
2,000 Nits is comparable to about 6,582 ANSI Lumens
===============================================

Using this chart, I believe 300 Nits is probably right for the UHZ65. A very satisfying result to my taste, but nowhere near full HDR Nits from what I understand.
Very interesting. Probably need one of those MCLA dual red/blue laser pjs shown at ISE 2017 with premium chassis/lens to get closer to the 1000 nit mark. They had models there exceeding 10000 lumens.
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post #39 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 11:12 AM
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Very interesting. Probably need one of those MCLA dual red/blue laser pjs shown at ISE 2017 with premium chassis/lens to get closer to the 1000 nit mark. They had models there exceeding 10000 lumens.
Indeed. All of that is waaaaay outside my budget.

I feel that I will be quite content for the next couple of years, then we will see what the price point is.
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Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
Indeed. All of that is waaaaay outside my budget.

I feel that I will be quite content for the next couple of years, then we will see what the price point is.
Sure you don't want this 7500 ANSI Lumen model? I heard you can get it for a steal at $20,000


https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/DK8500Z/
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I went to see the Sony 885/760 and 385/360 yesterday and if the 760 is the greatest projector I have seen so far, the 385 suffers from banding with 60Hz 4K HDR material and does not have FI, which for me is a must. So this rules out the 285/260 and 385 from my purchase list and all my hopes now rely within the UHZ. During yesterday's test they showed the initial clip of Cars, when McQueen is concentrating on the race to come from the comfort of his motorhome. Fast paced images are interleaved by black scenes. Can anyone try this part of the film and see if in DB2 the projector displays pure black? Does it come back on istantly when the images are displayed? Is the FI in this scene good?
Thanks to anyone that has the time and willingness to perform the test.
NOTE: the clip was taken from the Bluray 1080p
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Sure you don't want this 7500 ANSI Lumen model? I heard you can get it for a steal at $20,000


https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/DK8500Z/

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post #43 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 12:41 PM
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Hi all,

I got my UHZ65 fired up last night and tinkered with some settings. First and foremost, this thing is extremely bright. I have a Stewart 130 screen and it is like daylight in my dedicated room! I had my JVC RS-1 of 10 years with a fairly recent bulb, and it was like it was off when I did the comparison...and I really liked the image it put out over all these years!

I was messing around with various material from Netflix to Xbox One X gaming and I am a bit mixed. I saw some posterization on a few scenes where I didn't see them on my JVC. Not sure if my JVC masked it well or the scene was bad and the Optoma makes it stick out?

On Tomb Raider (Xbox One X enhanced), there were some seriously weird lighting problems going on and a longer input lag than my JVC. I think it extends from HDR, but it was like the screen would get really bright and then it would go dark. It fluctuated a bunch. At one time, when I was in the projector settings, the projector menu white letters did the same thing. Got dim and the lit up again. It was annoying. And another time the color of the scene went from vibrant colors to extremely flat and dull. I'm not sure what the hell is going on here. The menu flat out sucks. Let me just get that out of the way! Hate when I change a setting, the screen blacks out and reverts back to the main menu instead of the section I was previously on. On other scenes, I have seen like a "snow" noisy effect in the image in brighter scenes that I didn't see on my old JVC too. Starting to wonder if I got a bum unit?

I've done the settings for deep black, but am struggling with all the color options because it's hard to do A/B when the screen blacks out and you got to renavigate back to where you were. Too much delay. Any baseline settings to work with (not digging into the values of color, buy just the main basics)?

I have 2 hours on the laser so far. I have another hour to give before I get socked with a 15% restock fee if I return it. Not sure what to do at this point. I'm a tad frustrated! I love the brightness, not having to worry about a bulb getting dim with the laser (this projector is a daily driver, so it will get a lot of use), dropping $300+ on new bulbs, and the detail and color, but these weird brightness fluctuations, image noise, input lag for gaming and posterization is bugging the hell out of me!

I'll post my settings a little later tonight to see if I might have something checked that shouldn't. Maybe that will help.

Thanks!
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post #44 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rein View Post
Hi all,

I got my UHZ65 fired up last night and tinkered with some settings. First and foremost, this thing is extremely bright. I have a Stewart 130 screen and it is like daylight in my dedicated room! I had my JVC RS-1 of 10 years with a fairly recent bulb, and it was like it was off when I did the comparison...and I really liked the image it put out over all these years!

I was messing around with various material from Netflix to Xbox One X gaming and I am a bit mixed. I saw some posterization on a few scenes where I didn't see them on my JVC. Not sure if my JVC masked it well or the scene was bad and the Optoma makes it stick out?

On Tomb Raider (Xbox One X enhanced), there were some seriously weird lighting problems going on and a longer input lag than my JVC. I think it extends from HDR, but it was like the screen would get really bright and then it would go dark. It fluctuated a bunch. At one time, when I was in the projector settings, the projector menu white letters did the same thing. Got dim and the lit up again. It was annoying. And another time the color of the scene went from vibrant colors to extremely flat and dull. I'm not sure what the hell is going on here. The menu flat out sucks. Let me just get that out of the way! Hate when I change a setting, the screen blacks out and reverts back to the main menu instead of the section I was previously on. On other scenes, I have seen like a "snow" noisy effect in the image in brighter scenes that I didn't see on my old JVC too. Starting to wonder if I got a bum unit?

I've done the settings for deep black, but am struggling with all the color options because it's hard to do A/B when the screen blacks out and you got to renavigate back to where you were. Too much delay. Any baseline settings to work with (not digging into the values of color, buy just the main basics)?

I have 2 hours on the laser so far. I have another hour to give before I get socked with a 15% restock fee if I return it. Not sure what to do at this point. I'm a tad frustrated! I love the brightness, not having to worry about a bulb getting dim with the laser (this projector is a daily driver, so it will get a lot of use), dropping $300+ on new bulbs, and the detail and color, but these weird brightness fluctuations, image noise, input lag for gaming and posterization is bugging the hell out of me!

I'll post my settings a little later tonight to see if I might have something checked that shouldn't. Maybe that will help.

Thanks!

I have the exact same issue with the letters on the menu dimming at random and the brightness fluctuations.


I'd really like to know the reason for this.
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post #45 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 01:22 PM
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I do not think the HDMI standard allows for power to be supplied through the HDMI port, or if it does, that it might not be sufficient for these little optical transceivers.
I'm using a 50 foot optical HDMI cable from Monoprice ("SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, CMP Plenum, 4K 60Hz, YUV444, 50ft").

Its working perfectly between the Marantz av7704 and the UHZ65, at 4K 60Hz UHD 4:2:2.

No power inserters are required. The optical transceivers are powered by the HDMI ports.

The 8 foot passive cable between my AppleTV 4k and the av7704 is a Monoprice "Certified Premium Ultra Slim High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 36AWG, 8ft, Black" cable.

Had to try a few different cables before I found these satisfactory ones that actually worked reliably with 18Gb signals. Some others worked with 10gb signals (4K 60) but flaked out when high chroma UHD was turned on.
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post #46 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
I have the exact same issue with the letters on the menu dimming at random and the brightness fluctuations.
Same here. But, it only seems to happen when in the projector menus. Unintended firmware behavior?

Also noticed that when displaying the test pattern, which is by default green only, after a few minutes the projector starts making a sound like a fan or color wheel rubbing or out of balance. The sounds goes away immediately when the test pattern is turned off. Uneven heating of the green segment of the color wheel? Anyway, not an issue in practical use, but curious.
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post #47 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 01:31 PM
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I have the exact same issue with the letters on the menu dimming at random and the brightness fluctuations.


I'd really like to know the reason for this.
Mine doesn't do this at all.
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post #48 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 01:33 PM
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Setting Tips, Advice?

Would love to see HarperVision discuss setting tips!
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post #49 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModernMan View Post
I'm using a 50 foot optical HDMI cable from Monoprice ("SlimRun AV HDR Cable for HDMI Enabled Devices, CMP Plenum, 4K 60Hz, YUV444, 50ft").

Its working perfectly between the Marantz av7704 and the UHZ65, at 4K 60Hz UHD 4:2:2.

No power inserters are required. The optical transceivers are powered by the HDMI ports.

The 8 foot passive cable between my AppleTV 4k and the av7704 is a Monoprice "Certified Premium Ultra Slim High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 36AWG, 8ft, Black" cable.

Had to try a few different cables before I found these satisfactory ones that actually worked reliably with 18Gb signals. Some others worked with 10gb signals (4K 60) but flaked out when high chroma UHD was turned on.
Thank you for sharing the results of your hard work!

I just ordered a pair direct from Monoprice (on sale right now). It will be interesting to see if there is a quality difference between fiber cables. (how obsessive can one get with this?)

Thanks again.
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post #50 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 02:51 PM
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Letters on menu dimming people try setting dynamic black to OFF and test if you still have the issue.

You may be seeing normal brightness / gamma changes when small menu screens against black background lower the overall brightness and engage dynamic laser dimming . If this fixes your problem try using DB1 mode and there will be less brightness fluctuation than DB2.
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post #51 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
When comparing Nits to Lumens, in simple terms, 1 Nit represents more light than 1 ANSI lumen. The mathematical difference between Nits and Lumens is complex. However, for the consumer comparing a TV with a video projector, one way put it is 1 Nit is the approximate equivalent of 3.426 ANSI Lumens.

Using that reference point, in order to determine what a specific number of Nits is comparable to a specific number of ANSI lumens, you multiply the number of Nits by 3.426.
Sorry, but that website is completely wrong. You can't convert directly between nits and Lumens, they're completely different measurements. Lumens are a measurements of the total light being emitted by a light source, like a light bulb. Nits is a measure of light intensity per unit area emitted or reflcted by a surface. Your conversion is missing the effect of screen area and also gain.

The number you found, is in fact the relationship between nits and foot-Lamberts. The assumed peak white for SDR and the "nominal" white for HDR is 100nits, which is just about 30fL, or about twice the DCI standard for SDR of 16fL.

If you want to figure Lumens, you need to know screen area and gain.

Quote:
200 Nits is the equivalent of about 685 ANSI Lumens
500 Nits is comparable to about 1,713 ANSI Lumens
730 Nits is comparable to about 2,500 ANSI Lumens
1,000 Nits is comparable to about 3,426 ANSI Lumens
1,500 Nits is comparable to about 5,139 ANSI Lumens
2,000 Nits is comparable to about 6,582 ANSI Lumens
===============================================

Using this chart, I believe 300 Nits is probably right for the UHZ65. A very satisfying result to my taste, but nowhere near full HDR Nits from what I understand.
Nope, it all depends on screen area and gain. Lets assume a "normal" 100" screen, which has an area of about 32 square feet. Further, lets assume unity, 1.0 gain. 685 Lumens on such a screen would be, 685/32 = 21.4 fL (foot Lamberts). Which is only about 73 nits. 200 nits is possible from 685 Lumens, but would be an 11.6 square foot screen, which would be a 47" screen.

1000 nits, on a 100" screen, would require 1000 nits * 1 fL/3.426 nit * 32 sqft is, well basically 10,000 Lumens. 4000 nits on a 100", 1 gain screen, would thus be about 40,000 Lumens.
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post #52 of 1518 Old 12-03-2017, 07:19 PM
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I get blinking every once in a while using a 20' HDMI cord for 4K HDR, blinks maybe once every 20 minutes.

What active cable have you guys found in that length to be successful for a decent price?
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After 30 Hours of use seems like the dimming is much less frequent? maybe new laser needed to get some game time to get it going?

Feels like picture more stable.

Im using 3ft cables everything is setup close to the projector.
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Can any of you guys see any issue on motion like panning, zooming, etc with a UHD output at 24Hz ? There is a rumor that early models of the UHZ65 might require a firmware update to properly display those at 48Hz, so it would be interesting to find out if there's anything to it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Sorry, but that website is completely wrong. You can't convert directly between nits and Lumens, they're completely different measurements. Lumens are a measurements of the total light being emitted by a light source, like a light bulb. Nits is a measure of light intensity per unit area emitted or reflcted by a surface. Your conversion is missing the effect of screen area and also gain.

The number you found, is in fact the relationship between nits and foot-Lamberts. The assumed peak white for SDR and the "nominal" white for HDR is 100nits, which is just about 30fL, or about twice the DCI standard for SDR of 16fL.

If you want to figure Lumens, you need to know screen area and gain.

Nope, it all depends on screen area and gain. Lets assume a "normal" 100" screen, which has an area of about 32 square feet. Further, lets assume unity, 1.0 gain. 685 Lumens on such a screen would be, 685/32 = 21.4 fL (foot Lamberts). Which is only about 73 nits. 200 nits is possible from 685 Lumens, but would be an 11.6 square foot screen, which would be a 47" screen.

1000 nits, on a 100" screen, would require 1000 nits * 1 fL/3.426 nit * 32 sqft is, well basically 10,000 Lumens. 4000 nits on a 100", 1 gain screen, would thus be about 40,000 Lumens.
I do not dispute your information. However, to be fair to that web site, I did not copy the several paragraphs that talk about how complicated the comparison is and how the two measurements are really very different. He was just trying to give people a sense of how you might be able to ballpark a comparison between an emissive display vs a reflected screen image. At least that is my understanding.

So, he created a generalization, and generalizations, in general, are not completely representative of the truth.
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post #56 of 1518 Old 12-04-2017, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
I do not dispute your information. However, to be fair to that web site, I did not copy the several paragraphs that talk about how complicated the comparison is and how the two measurements are really very different. He was just trying to give people a sense of how you might be able to ballpark a comparison between an emissive display vs a reflected screen image. At least that is my understanding.

So, he created a generalization, and generalizations, in general, are not completely representative of the truth.
Unfortunately his generalizations are not even close to correct, not for normal sized projection screens. It looks like what he did was to assume an "average TV" sized 46" screen, and then compared nits for that, to what Lumens would be required for that sized screen. However he never says that, never explains that larger screens will require dramatically more Lumens to hit those nit levels (or that those same Lumens will result in dramatically lower brightness/nit/fL levels). Which leads to misunderstandings like the above.

For as many words as he put in that article, he could have explained it correctly, it's not that complicated:

Brightness of a projected image is equal to the light output of the projector, divided by the screen area, times the screen gain, or :

Brightness (fL) = Output (Lumens) * gain / screen area (sqft)
If we assume a 100" 1.1 gains screen, and a projector with 1000 Lumens:
Brightness (fL) = 1000 Lumens * 1.1 / 29.7 sqft = 37 fL

And since 1fL = 3.4 nits that means that's 125 nits.

If that were a 120" screen....
Brightness (fL) = 1000 Lumens * 1.1 / 42.7 sqft = 26fL, or 88 nits

If that were a 130" screen....
Brightness (fL) = 1000 Lumens * 1.1 / 50.1 sqft = 22fL, or 75 nits

Note how the size has a dramatic difference on brightness, since brightness is inversely (goes down, when size goes up) related to the square of the screen diagonal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Unfortunately his generalizations are not even close to correct, not for normal sized projection screens. It looks like what he did was to assume an "average TV" sized 46" screen, and then compared nits for that, to what Lumens would be required for that sized screen. However he never says that, never explains that larger screens will require dramatically more Lumens to hit those nit levels (or that those same Lumens will result in dramatically lower brightness/nit/fL levels). Which leads to misunderstandings like the above.

For as many words as he put in that article, he could have explained it correctly, it's not that complicated:

Brightness of a projected image is equal to the light output of the projector, divided by the screen area, times the screen gain, or :

Brightness (fL) = Output (Lumens) * gain / screen area (sqft)
If we assume a 100" 1.1 gains screen, and a projector with 1000 Lumens:
Brightness (fL) = 1000 Lumens * 1.1 / 29.7 sqft = 37 fL

And since 1fL = 3.4 nits that means that's 125 nits.
Thank you for this!
So, based upon your 100" screen calculation and trying match that up with the UHZ65 specifications:

A 1000 lumen projector on the 100" screen produces 125 Nits on the 1.1 screen.
The UHZ65 is rated at 3000 lumens, so 3 times 125 = 375 Nits. The Oppo recognizes the UHZ65 automatically (and approximately) as a 300 Nit projector. It seems we are in the ball park approximately.

Thanks again!
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post #58 of 1518 Old 12-04-2017, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
Thank you for this!
So, based upon your 100" screen calculation and trying match that up with the UHZ65 specifications:

A 1000 lumen projector on the 100" screen produces 125 Nits on the 1.1 screen.
The UHZ65 is rated at 3000 lumens, so 3 times 125 = 375 Nits.
If that's the calibrated output, yes.

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The Oppo recognizes the UHZ65 automatically (and approximately) as a 300 Nit projector.
That doesn't sound right, display brightness isn't part of the EDID that's reported by the display to the player, there should be no way for the Oppo to know how bright the display it's connected to is. Sounds more like it's just a nice coincidence that the default in the Oppo is similar.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
If that's the calibrated output, yes.



That doesn't sound right, display brightness isn't part of the EDID that's reported by the display to the player, there should be no way for the Oppo to know how bright the display it's connected to is. Sounds more like it's just a nice coincidence that the default in the Oppo is similar.
That is entirely possible, and it had occurred to me that it might be just a default factory setting. I have not done the research yet to determine whether that setting is there to influence the tone mapping for the HDR. I assume if there is an entry that it must have an actual purpose.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGrease View Post
That is entirely possible, and it had occurred to me that it might be just a default factory setting. I have not done the research yet to determine whether that setting is there to influence the tone mapping for the HDR. I assume if there is an entry that it must have an actual purpose.
If you're talking about the "Target Luminance"setting, that's only used for HDR to SDR conversion (per the Oppo thread), ie when you have HDR OFF or Strip Metadata enabled.
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