Improving Madvr HDR to SDR mapping for projector - Page 204 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6091 of 6215 Old 07-21-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
But what if it is much more than a self contained device. It goes out on the web and uses AI to determine the best way to play the video of your choice. Sweeet!
Again, it is an always receiving pass through connection. It has no way to know you started a video or ended a video. It can only deal with the frames it sees at the moment. So there is nothing to search for on the web as it doesn’t even know you’re playing a video. This has the added benefit of post processing video games as well though which makes it very exciting for me.
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post #6092 of 6215 Old 07-23-2019, 08:32 AM
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But what if it is much more than a self contained device. It goes out on the web and uses AI to determine the best way to play the video of your choice. Sweeet!
They should add that to MadVR. Let me pick the perfect reference upscale (even up to 16k res or something) of a Blu Ray rip that MadVR couldn't possibly render in real time, then let me train an upscaling model on the TensorCores in my NVIDIA RTX over the course of a few days/weeks. Then whenever I watch that specific movie I can have an inferred upscale done by the TensorCores in real time that gets very close to reference. Then MadVR can downscale it back to my regular screen resolution.
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post #6093 of 6215 Old 07-23-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
They should add that to MadVR. Let me pick the perfect reference upscale (even up to 16k res or something) of a Blu Ray rip that MadVR couldn't possibly render in real time, then let me train an upscaling model on the TensorCores in my NVIDIA RTX over the course of a few days/weeks. Then whenever I watch that specific movie I can have an inferred upscale done by the TensorCores in real time that gets very close to reference. Then MadVR can downscale it back to my regular screen resolution.
The Envy conjoined with your system configuration just keeps getting better, day after day. Maybe even suggest to you what software/hardware upgrades would be best and if you agree it rewards you with a deeper dive into AI neural networks and whatever else it sees fit. Now there is an example of machine learning. Bring it on...
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post #6094 of 6215 Old 07-25-2019, 02:38 AM
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@madshi

I know from Hendrik/Nev and Manni you have (on your long list) the ability to support measurement files on BD Folder playback using Menus. I'd love to see this working as well. We tend to play our UHD/BD using Menus (JRiver Media Center) as we get the correct Subs, can select versions, extras etc.... but at present the measurement files are not used when using Menu Playback (but work perfectly with Title Playback of course).

Thanks for you work.
Nathan
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post #6095 of 6215 Old 07-25-2019, 04:22 AM
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Hi, do you have more information about the program, and is it possible to use the mpc-be as a player?

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post #6096 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 12:26 AM
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I got a change to measure my nits for my JVC N5, with 16:9 it measured 116 nits and for 21:9 82 nits. Anyone got the best setting to go with does numbers? I using the latest test build. Thanx.
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post #6097 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
I got a change to measure my nits for my JVC N5, with 16:9 it measured 116 nits and for 21:9 82 nits. Anyone got the best setting to go with does numbers? I using the latest test build. Thanx.
If you have a 16x9 screen and you're projecting a scope movie onto it, your 116 nits still applies. If you have a separate scope screen that you use that's far bigger, this would be the only way I think you would consider the 21:9 to be half bright. Therefore, I'd just go with the 116 value to start.

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post #6098 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
If you have a 16x9 screen and you're projecting a scope movie onto it, your 116 nits still applies. If you have a separate scope screen that you use that's far bigger, this would be the only way I think you would consider the 21:9 to be half bright. Therefore, I'd just go with the 116 value to start.
I have a 21:9 screen, so I need 2 settings.
Any advice about the no comparison limit en dynamic tuning settings with does nits?

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post #6099 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
I have a 21:9 screen, so I need 2 settings.
Any advice about the no comparison limit en dynamic tuning settings with does nits?
Your panel is still 16x9. I think for nits I'd still take the measurement based on panel size. So basically take your width, convert that to at 16x9 screen that wide and use that for your nits calc.

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post #6100 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Your panel is still 16x9. I think for nits I'd still take the measurement based on panel size. So basically take your width, convert that to at 16x9 screen that wide and use that for your nits calc.
But I use different zoom settings, so when watching 16:9 movies I have more light then watching 21:9 movies and different nits values right?

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post #6101 of 6215 Old 08-18-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
But I use different zoom settings, so when watching 16:9 movies I have more light then watching 21:9 movies and different nits values right?

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Right, you will have different nit values for different zoomed screen image widths.

Do the following for each nit calc:
For a 16x9 panel PJ, Divide your zoomed screen image width by 1.77 to get "Actual projected Screen Image Height" and use that to calculate image square footage.

I've had good luck with 0 for no compression limit and 50 for dynamic tuning, with latest test build. I have a 143" 1.1 gain 2.37 scope screen with JVC RS540 at around 60 nits.

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post #6102 of 6215 Old 08-22-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
So I use these now:

Hey guys!

We experiment with "Output video in HDR format" using madVRhdrMeasure86 on LG B8 and C8, trying to compare passthrough to madvr tonemapping (note that the tonemapping in the TV can't be disabled).

What do you think about the attached settings?
Thanks

Edit1: "maximal target nits" changed to 760 as well, due to this
Edit2: "highlight recovery strength" changed to "very high"
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post #6103 of 6215 Old 08-25-2019, 05:35 AM
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@chros73

I wish there was a middle ground between "none" and "low" for the "highlight recovery strength":

None / Low


The Meg - Frame 73762

As you can see, "low" produces ringing (around Statham's head) and dark halos (on clouds).

I really like the increased details on the clouds with "low", but I hate artifacts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
@chros73

I wish there was a middle ground between "none" and "low" for the "highlight recovery strength":

None / Low


The Meg - Frame 73762

As you can see, "low" produces ringing (around Statham's head) and dark halos (on clouds).

I really like the increased details on the clouds with "low", but I hate artifacts.
What happens if you then turn on the anti-ringing filter in post processing?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
What happens if you then turn on the anti-ringing filter in post processing?
Even more GPU power used for nothing

IMO, the best results are achieved by finding better target nits, like this:



If the target is not "ideal", I prefer no highlights recovery, or maybe something very subtle (between "none" and "low") if it doesn't produce artifacts or unnatural images.

Clouds are quite good to test this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
As you can see, "low" produces ringing (around Statham's head) and dark halos (on clouds).
Thanks! I'll leave it as it is, it's only for testing anyway. There's no much difference between the TV's tonemapping and madvr's (since the TV's tonemapping can't be disabled).

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A nasty bug I have just found with madVR and the maximal target nits option:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



Can anyone confirm this bug when going from 1099 to 1100 nits for the maximal target?

It can be tested with The Meg at frame 102795 for instance:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



So... don't take my word on the "highlight recovery strength" option for now, this can change everything.

Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
Can anyone confirm this bug when going from 1099 to 1100 nits for the maximal target?
...
So... don't take my word on the "highlight recovery strength" option for now, this can change everything.
I'll check it tonight.
I used it with "very high" for 3-4 months back then and I haven't noticed such issues with it (although that doesn't mean anything ), but "are you nuts" setting did.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
A nasty bug I have just found with madVR and the maximal target nits option:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



Can anyone confirm this bug when going from 1099 to 1100 nits for the maximal target?

It can be tested with The Meg at frame 102795 for instance:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



So... don't take my word on the "highlight recovery strength" option for now, this can change everything.

Thanks.

I don't have that issue on either scene when switching between 1099-1100 with either none or nuts activated.
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madVR onscreen display

My onscreen display of madVR settings has less information than shown in the screenshots above, is there a setting that expands what is shown?


Thanks
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post #6111 of 6215 Old 08-27-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
My onscreen display of madVR settings has less information than shown in the screenshots above, is there a setting that expands what is shown?


Thanks
Put a empty folder "Showhdrmode" in the madvr folder.

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post #6112 of 6215 Old 08-27-2019, 06:41 AM
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Put a empty folder "Showhdrmode" in the madvr folder.

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I tried it and nothing seemed to change. Are there other ways to expand the list of what is shown?


Thanks
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post #6113 of 6215 Old 08-27-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
I tried it and nothing seemed to change. Are there other ways to expand the list of what is shown?


Thanks
OK, I see some HDR stuff there now but it looks like the pictures above also have an expanded list of rendering times is there another switch for that?
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Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
OK, I see some HDR stuff there now but it looks like the pictures above also have an expanded list of rendering times is there another switch for that?
Add ShowRenderSteps folder.

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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
Add ShowRenderSteps folder.

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Worked perfect, Thanks!
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post #6116 of 6215 Old 08-27-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fer15 View Post
I don't have that issue on either scene when switching between 1099-1100 with either none or nuts activated.
Thanks, I've found the issue.

It only happens when there is a filter which removes HDR properties. In my case, it was the video transformation filter of PotPlayer.

Filter disabled:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



Filter enabled:

Maximal target nits 1099 / 1100



As you can see in the OSD, "HDR, unknown properties" is displayed when the transformation filter is enabled. It's still a bug I think.

So be sure to turn it off like this for HDR content if you are using PotPlayer:



Now I need to test the highlight recovery feature again
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
Now I need to test the highlight recovery feature again

You know you love it and have missed testing! I've been using the are you nuts setting lately and haven't had too many issues that I've noticed.
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post #6118 of 6215 Old 08-30-2019, 12:12 AM
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I still have not quite understood for me what the highlight recovery in native 4k material really is. Have indeed read onkyo the guide, but as I said smarter I'm not synonymous ...
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I will likely grossly misrepresent this, so, one of the more experienced users please correct me if I get this completely wrong....


That being said, my understanding is that when madvr processes a frame some of the brightness in the highlights (the high dynamic range parts of the picture) is lost. The highlight recovery option attempts to bring back some of that brightness. But, it's not without potential issues so you'll need to try it and compare to see what looks good to you. Some of us insane people like to try to get the highlights back even if it introduces some (hopefully) minor issues to the picture. Others take a more "hell no, don't mess with the picture!" approach.
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post #6120 of 6215 Old 08-30-2019, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2907 View Post
I still have not quite understood for me what the highlight recovery in native 4k material really is. Have indeed read onkyo the guide, but as I said smarter I'm not synonymous ...
It just sharpens and enhances/restores detail in the brightest parts of your image. Details which can otherwise be lost in extreme levels of tone mapping like tone mapping 1000 nits down to 100.
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