Improving Madvr HDR to SDR mapping for projector - Page 208 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6211 of 6249 Old 09-10-2019, 05:11 AM
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Could someone post the settings with the new build for projectors with 50/60 Nits?
I continue to have the best compromise with the penultimate build (the 86), the 87 remains too dark or with high lights shot.
Thank you

Sorry for my bad English
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post #6212 of 6249 Old 09-10-2019, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icaro View Post
Could someone post the settings with the new build for projectors with 50/60 Nits?
I continue to have the best compromise with the penultimate build (the 86), the 87 remains too dark or with high lights shot.
Thank you
Haven't tried v.87, but what settings are you using with v.86?
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post #6213 of 6249 Old 09-12-2019, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Haven't tried v.87, but what settings are you using with v.86?

I've always used Neo-XP settings (Thank you so much Neo ),
but now with build 87, I made a mix between the settings of builds 86 and 87 used by Neo-XP,
with the 87 in fact I don't use the "FALL Knee algo" (I think Neo-XP uses it on a brighter TV), with the projector with only 61 nits, the image is too dark,
instead with these settings and build 87, I am fine with both the projector and the old TV with only 74 nits

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Last edited by Icaro; 09-12-2019 at 06:57 AM.
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post #6214 of 6249 Old 09-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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@Icaro

I still use the settings you posted for watching new HDR titles. The only difference is my real display peak nits of course.

Oddly, the Red Sparrow scene at 00:26:46 is not producing any visible brightness adaptation anymore with these brightness speeds (even at 50 real nits and 100 dynamic tuning), madshi must have fixed something without telling us (or without being aware of it ).
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post #6215 of 6249 Old 09-12-2019, 10:35 AM
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@Neo-XP

Sorry Neo,
but I had seen that in your only settings post of build 87, you used the "Fall Knee algo" with 75 dynamic tuning and 0 recovery strength
I thought they were your current settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post



For now, I find the targets with the alternative FALL Knee algo better (more "ideal" per scene) than with the default FALL algo.

With low FALL they stay low (not producing a too dark image), but with high FALL the targets are much higher (more balanced image, less compression in highlights, without being too dark).

Obviously, this can cause even more brightness difference between two scenes of the same "chapter", it is yet another compromise to make...

The "FALL threshold" option is only harmful for me.

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Last edited by Icaro; 09-12-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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post #6216 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:07 AM
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Has anyone else noticed this issue in build 87? In my setup, the colors are off in build 87, this particular scene is very red in build 87, I’m not sure if the phone captures the image very well, but on the screen this scene doesn’t look right, the first image is build 86 and the second image is build 87. There are no other changes in the settings and I can switch between the builds with consistent results.
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post #6217 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkino View Post
Has anyone else noticed this issue in build 87? In my setup, the colors are off in build 87, this particular scene is very red in build 87, I’m not sure if the phone captures the image very well, but on the screen this scene doesn’t look right, the first image is build 86 and the second image is build 87. There are no other changes in the settings and I can switch between the builds with consistent results.

I can confirm that this Blade Runner 2049 scene is rended much more saturated with build 87 that it used to be with the older build 78 I was still using.

I was using mapping to DCI-P3 for the comparison if it matters.

Since I love saturation, I will not complain... but would be good to know which one is correct.
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post #6218 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:43 AM
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@azkino

The only difference I see by switching between build 86 and 87 is the OSD showing "movie" on build 86 and "video" on build 87:

Build 86 / Build 87



What settings are you using, especially for color gamut? Do you see any difference on the OSD between the two builds?
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post #6219 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:50 AM
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I think I have found the issue: the "this display is already calibrated" option is broken on build 87.

There is no difference for me between all color gamut.
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post #6220 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Well actually, I think I found the issue. No matter what you select in colorspace, the new build always give the same results.

I guess it's akways tone mapping to REC709 in the new build.

So people who used to tone map to 709 will see zero difference.
People who used to tone map to dci-p3 will see everything slightly oversaturated. And the one who tone mapped to rec2020 will see it massively oversaturated.
@madshi could it be? :-)
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post #6221 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
I think I have found the issue: the "this display is already calibrated" option is broken on build 87.

There is no difference for me between all color gamut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Well actually, I think I found the issue. No matter what you select in colorspace, the new build always give the same results.

I guess it's akways tone mapping to REC709 in the new build.

So people who used to tone map to 709 will see zero difference.
People who used to tone map to dci-p3 will see everything slightly oversaturated. And the one who tone mapped to rec2020 will see it massively oversaturated.
@madshi could it be? :-)
Yeah, I’m using “this display is already calculated” with BT.2020 option and it’s really oversaturated.
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post #6222 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 01:27 PM
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Still in build 87,
also in device properties,
nothing changes between "TV Levels" and "PC Levels"

Sorry for my bad English
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post #6223 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
And the one who tone mapped to rec2020 will see it massively oversaturated.
...unless (s)he uses a 3D LUT
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post #6224 of 6249 Old 09-18-2019, 10:55 PM
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I thought it was a feature and not a bug

Does that mean the users who are using 2020 should switch back to build 86 or will there be a build 88 soon?
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post #6225 of 6249 Old 09-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbird View Post
I thought it was a feature and not a bug

Does that mean the users who are using 2020 should switch back to build 86 or will there be a build 88 soon?
I just switched back to build 86 for now.
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post #6226 of 6249 Old 09-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkino View Post
I just switched back to build 86 for now.
Same here

Sorry for my bad English
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post #6227 of 6249 Old 09-20-2019, 10:16 AM
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I currently use the zooming method (constant height) with my setup and I get 110 nits when watching 16.9 content. For scope content, I get 70 nits. Therefore, I must change that setting (real nits value) in madvr according to the movie I watch. The result is stunning!

Is there a way for madvr (using profiles?) to know whether the movie is 16:1 vs 2.35:1? I would like to make two profiles, one for each zoom preset, and have madvr automatically chose the correct one (70 vs 110 nits).

Can this be done?
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post #6228 of 6249 Old 09-20-2019, 10:58 AM
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the AR variable is what you need
and rule for profile :

if (AR >=2.40) "ratio2.40"
elseif (AR >= 2.385) "ratio2.39"
elseif (AR >= 2.375) "ratio2.38"
elseif (AR >= 2.345) "ratio2.35" .....

else "ratio4:3"
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post #6229 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 02:29 AM
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I use the mode and it is really different. The HDR mode is very dark and almost invisible.
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post #6230 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
I currently use the zooming method (constant height) with my setup and I get 110 nits when watching 16.9 content. For scope content, I get 70 nits. Therefore, I must change that setting (real nits value) in madvr according to the movie I watch. The result is stunning!

Is there a way for madvr (using profiles?) to know whether the movie is 16:1 vs 2.35:1? I would like to make two profiles, one for each zoom preset, and have madvr automatically chose the correct one (70 vs 110 nits).

Can this be done?
why do you get lower nits on scope content? In CIH dont you just get black bars on 16x9 content on the sides?

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post #6231 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 03:50 AM
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I would like to try the neo-xp settings for build 86 but can't seem to find them in this quite long thread. Anyone a link to a screenshot?
Thanks!
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post #6232 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 04:14 AM
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@tingtong5

For build 86:


For build 86, with adapted (better) brightness speeds:


For build 87:


Don't use build 87 unless your display is calibrated to BT.709 and with PC levels (0-255).

And increase dynamic tuning as you wish if you find it too bright

Last edited by Neo-XP; 09-21-2019 at 04:28 AM.
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post #6233 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
why do you get lower nits on scope content? In CIH dont you just get black bars on 16x9 content on the sides?

When zooming for CH, you have to light up a much bigger surface for the scope image to be as high as the 16.9 one.

xxxx5, Thank you for the tip, I will try it tonight (AR variable).
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post #6234 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
@tingtong5

For build 86:


For build 86, with adapted (better) brightness speeds:


For build 87:


Don't use build 87 unless your display is calibrated to BT.709 and with PC levels (0-255).

And increase dynamic tuning as you wish if you find it too bright
Thanks a lot Neo-XP!! Will try it tonight :-)
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post #6235 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
@tingtong5

For build 86:


For build 86, with adapted (better) brightness speeds:


For build 87:


Don't use build 87 unless your display is calibrated to BT.709 and with PC levels (0-255).

And increase dynamic tuning as you wish if you find it too bright
Thanks a lot Neo-XP!! Will try it tonight :-)
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post #6236 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 11:00 AM
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For those of us using Soulnight measurements customization tool, would a newer beta build give any benefits quality wise? I am probably at build 40 or something close to it.
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post #6237 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by danbez View Post
For those of us using Soulnight measurements customization tool, would a newer beta build give any benefits quality wise? I am probably at build 40 or something close to it.
I'd say no. There were no changes in madMeasureHDR.exe.

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post #6238 of 6249 Old 09-21-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Well actually, I think I found the issue. No matter what you select in colorspace, the new build always give the same results.

I guess it's akways tone mapping to REC709 in the new build.

So people who used to tone map to 709 will see zero difference.
People who used to tone map to dci-p3 will see everything slightly oversaturated. And the one who tone mapped to rec2020 will see it massively oversaturated.
@madshi could it be? :-)
I noticed that last night. Being new-ish to MadVR in general I wasn't sure if it was something new or something I had never noticed before. Thanks! Rolling back to 86 for now, but I actually kinda like the FALL Knee algo.
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post #6239 of 6249 Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM
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Been using madvr with my x970R for a while, and now have an NX9 and a DCR lens coming for it.

I estimate I should have up to ~44ftL available for HDR from my 1.18 actual gain screen. I only had about 25ftL available from my x970R with 1800 hrs on the bulb.

With this additional brightness, I'm wondering if I should be doing something else in how I output from madvr?

Currently tone mapping HDR but outputting SDR to the projector. Should this change now with the increased brightness?

Also, is the proper way to determine the nits value to put in the newest version of madvr to read ftL on 100IRE pattern off screen when in HDR mode/high lamp using Mascior's HDR patterns, and then convert to nits?

Finally, about madmeasureHDR given my details above - what would be the recommended settings to generate that measure file for my setup?
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post #6240 of 6249 Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Been using madvr with my x970R for a while, and now have an NX9 and a DCR lens coming for it.

I estimate I should have up to ~44ftL available for HDR from my 1.18 actual gain screen. I only had about 25ftL available from my x970R with 1800 hrs on the bulb.

With this additional brightness, I'm wondering if I should be doing something else in how I output from madvr?

Currently tone mapping HDR but outputting SDR to the projector. Should this change now with the increased brightness?

Also, is the proper way to determine the nits value to put in the newest version of madvr to read ftL on 100IRE pattern off screen when in HDR mode/high lamp using Mascior's HDR patterns, and then convert to nits?

Finally, about madmeasureHDR given my details above - what would be the recommended settings to generate that measure file for my setup?
I have an RS1000/NX5 (115" screen/1.2gain at almost min throw) so I'm ~50ftL in high lamp give or take. With the dtm from MadVR I ended up leaving it on low lamp except when I'm watching 3D. I noticed a slight increase in brightness, but ended up deciding it wasn't worth the lamp wear. I have the projector tucked away in a closet with a port hole so noise isn't an issue. The tone mapping by MadVR is so good I just didn't think it was worth going to high lamp. I'd set it up how you want, calibrate, etc and then just flip back and forth and see how you like it. I run mine right now low lamp 0 iris and no DI. For SDR I ended up doing low lamp, -10, and auto 2(the yellowing isn't noticeable for me below -8 or so).
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