Any reason to wait for an upcoming projector? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Spoken like the consummate reseller.

I don't think I offered any solutions, or utopia (?) I was just postulating that manufacturers can, should and will soon have to start thinking a about little more than just about the bottom line. Less goods manufactured, less waste.

No one really needs to upgrade a display every year. It is completely understandable if some new 'big thing' comes along that will push enthusiasts and early adopters to it, but as we have seen, there are people using 10+ year old kit and still finding it perfect usable as indeed most of it still is, if it is still in homes and not rotting somewhere.

The government needs no hand in any of this I would have thought other than regulating the materials used to manufacture goods perhaps?

Also, what you described was how it was with product cycles not that very long ago.

I remember my dad paying a couple of months wages on a colour TV and it was used for best part of two decades as I recall. Excellent Sony Trinitron. (Made in Japan not Wales). Widescreen came along and one of those only came into the house because I bought my own, which again was used for nearly a decade itself!
"If manufacturers would enable features on older kit via firmware or even hardware upgrades"

To make things so that they are hardware upgradeable, they would have to be made modular, so that replacement is practical. That is the whole thing I responded to. The rate of progress and new development is a little faster these days, compared to when you or I were growing up. So items did not get outdated quite as fast. Besides, when I grew up, (60's and 70's) there was not that much on television. We spent most of our time outside.
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post #92 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 01:19 PM
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Companies in the current financial/political system have a responsibility, not to the public, not the country, not to the environment and not to the planet, but to the shareholders - and a short term one at that! By making as much profit as possible every year so they can pay more and more dividends to their shareholders.

How are they supposed to increase overall profit by introducing modular systems where the customers pay less for upgrading and re-use much more instead of spending a lot more money for buying a whole lot of new stuff every year ? There are simply no incentives for doing that. (Remember, production costs are not that high compared to sales prices, so the more they sell the more they earn).

In the current system, this will never happen..
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post #93 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Drexler View Post
Companies in the current financial/political system have a responsibility, not to the public, not the country, not to the environment and not to the planet, but to the shareholders - and a short term one at that! By making as much profit as possible every year so they can pay more and more dividends to their shareholders.
IMO, that is generally a cop out statement for companies to do underhanded things for short-term gains like Wells Fargo did.
I don't like that statement, because it implies a separation of what is in the interest of the customer is always at odds with expanding or making profit using ethical behavior.

That statement has been used by companies for years and years to do the most underhanded practices. The truth is the companies have a responsibility to the public and to the shareholders, not one or the other, and the customer is more important in the long-term than the shareholders, because shareholders will always be buy/sell for the most part.

80% of the time there is a better and more ethical way to make more money. Companies like AT&T, Wells Fargo, and others that have been fined for bad behavior end up with a 'hated' relationship from their customers and in the long-term are likely to fail, or would have already failed if it hadn't been for govt enabling monopolistic/oligopolistic segments of the markets to be controlled by these companies.

Look at Amazon as an example, they did not go for short-term profits now they are bigger than almost everyone else.
Not that they are anymore ethical, just that short-term is likely to end up ruining your brand name, or at the very least damaging it.

Companies falsely overvalue certain metrics over others, they want to try to measure everything.
A repeat customer is an almost immeasurable metric, because it's hard to judge how many customers aren't buying something because of the product, or because of the brand name. And the reason they don't buy can be either/or...
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Last edited by coderguy; 04-20-2018 at 01:50 PM.
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post #94 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post
Companies in the current financial/political system have a responsibility, not to the public, not the country, not to the environment and not to the planet, but to the shareholders - and a short term one at that! By making as much profit as possible every year so they can pay more and more dividends to their shareholders.

How are they supposed to increase overall profit by introducing modular systems where the customers pay less for upgrading and re-use much more instead of spending a lot more money for buying a whole lot of new stuff every year ? There are simply no incentives for doing that. (Remember, production costs are not that high compared to sales prices, so the more they sell the more they earn).

In the current system, this will never happen..
I think it's more of a technical problem than it is a financial problem...

There is always a middleground companies can find with how much to charge to offset losses of other newer products people might purchase otherwise.
Besides, the projector business is pretty small niche and not anything major compared to the TV business.

The answer is there is a middleground where those 'sideline buyers' will come off the sidelines for upgrades to where they wouldn't do so otherwise.

So they can charge accordingly. They can always improve newer products even that much more beyond the modular upgrades.

Problem with modular upgrades is the manpower and complexity in the design to allow it to take place, and all the other logistical headaches that go into it.
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Last edited by coderguy; 04-20-2018 at 05:34 PM.
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post #95 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI, I had the lip sync issue on Jumanji 4k as well. I turned off the low latency, I guess it's on by default, and that seemed to correct the issue. And the picture is beautiful in 4k. I love it. I will watch the whole movie tomorrow.
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post #96 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 04:34 PM
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One modular thing from projectors manufacturers that would really help is the optics. Come up with ONE standard mount and create lenses that can be carried across projectors.

This gives option of using the lens that each person is comfortable with. The lens in Sony 1000/1100es, 5000 or JVC RS4500 costs a ton to manufacture and are excellent quality. It’s a shame they cannot be used with other projectors and are simply wasted at the EOL of the projector. I am sure these lenses can be used for years till technology moves out of using light for projection.

Something like what is available in cameras, but just with one standard mount. Hope someone comes up with something like that.
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post #97 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuning View Post
One modular thing from projectors manufacturers that would really help is the optics. Come up with ONE standard mount and create lenses that can be carried across projectors.

This gives option of using the lens that each person is comfortable with. The lens in Sony 1000/1100es, 5000 or JVC RS4500 costs a ton to manufacture and are excellent quality. It’s a shame they cannot be used with other projectors and are simply wasted at the EOL of the projector. I am sure these lenses can be used for years till technology moves out of using light for projection.

Something like what is available in cameras, but just with one standard mount. Hope someone comes up with something like that.
That is a very good idea, but they'll probably never do it because they will see it as losing control over part of the process, even though that may be an over-simplification.
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post #98 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuning View Post
One modular thing from projectors manufacturers that would really help is the optics. Come up with ONE standard mount and create lenses that can be carried across projectors.

This gives option of using the lens that each person is comfortable with. The lens in Sony 1000/1100es, 5000 or JVC RS4500 costs a ton to manufacture and are excellent quality. It’s a shame they cannot be used with other projectors and are simply wasted at the EOL of the projector. I am sure these lenses can be used for years till technology moves out of using light for projection.

Something like what is available in cameras, but just with one standard mount. Hope someone comes up with something like that.
On the pro side, interchangeable lens have been available for years. It does not cut down on cost, it increases cost. DPI makes their projectors with a standard lens and if you want one of the optional lens, you pay two to three thousand more. If Sony did this.

HW45 and HW65, three lens choices. Short, medium and long.
VW285, 385, 675 and 885, three lens choices.
VW5000 three lens choices.

That is more different designs than they currently make now.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 04-20-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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post #99 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 05:52 PM
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He was talking about across all brands though, most of the lenses are fitted to be set to a specific group of models.
Yes, even Benq has some projectors with interchangeable lenses.

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post #100 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
He was talking about across all brands though, most of the lenses are fitted to be set to a specific group of models.
Yes, even Benq has some projectors with interchangeable lenses.
Across brands, no way that would work. Yes, I listed the Sony models that are currently grouped together.
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post #101 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Across brands, no way that would work. Yes, I listed the Sony models that are currently grouped together.
Well it could with a standardization process, but no way they will standardize it.
Too much redesign work... There is no real driving factor for them to do so.

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post #102 of 110 Old 04-20-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Well it could with a standardization process, but no way they will standardize it.
Too much redesign work... There is no real driving factor for them to do so.
If Sony and JVC went together, they could probably share lens designs. Maybe even a couple Epson models also. Good luck getting JVC and Sony to work together. About like getting Pepsi and Coke to work together.
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post #103 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
"If manufacturers would enable features on older kit via firmware or even hardware upgrades"

To make things so that they are hardware upgradeable, they would have to be made modular, so that replacement is practical. That is the whole thing I responded to. The rate of progress and new development is a little faster these days, compared to when you or I were growing up. So items did not get outdated quite as fast. Besides, when I grew up, (60's and 70's) there was not that much on television. We spent most of our time outside.
Hi.
I think that was more of a suggestion than a solution....

I hear you re being outside more. I think I spent more time covered in dirt and stuff than being clean in my childhood days.
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post #104 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post
Companies in the current financial/political system have a responsibility, not to the public, not the country, not to the environment and not to the planet, but to the shareholders - and a short term one at that! By making as much profit as possible every year so they can pay more and more dividends to their shareholders.

How are they supposed to increase overall profit by introducing modular systems where the customers pay less for upgrading and re-use much more instead of spending a lot more money for buying a whole lot of new stuff every year ? There are simply no incentives for doing that. (Remember, production costs are not that high compared to sales prices, so the more they sell the more they earn).

In the current system, this will never happen..
So true, unfortunately. Although, saying they have no responsibility except to shareholders is a little inaccurate I feel.

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post #105 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
On the pro side, interchangeable lens have been available for years. It does not cut down on cost, it increases cost. DPI makes their projectors with a standard lens and if you want one of the optional lens, you pay two to three thousand more. If Sony did this.

HW45 and HW65, three lens choices. Short, medium and long.
VW285, 385, 675 and 885, three lens choices.
VW5000 three lens choices.

That is more different designs than they currently make now.
How I read it was, three lenses that fit all models. One (or perhaps two) common chassis and the only thing that need differ (if at all) is a mounting adapter.

Once you have the lens of your choice you are then left with lower costs as an end user and also then the projectors are cheaper to sell with no lens.
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post #106 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Well it could with a standardization process, but no way they will standardize it.
Too much redesign work... There is no real driving factor for them to do so.
Also standardisation means there is no way to try to lock you into any proprietary hardware either.
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post #107 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
How I read it was, three lenses that fit all models. One (or perhaps two) common chassis and the only thing that need differ (if at all) is a mounting adapter.

Once you have the lens of your choice you are then left with lower costs as an end user and also then the projectors are cheaper to sell with no lens.
If Sony went to two chassis, they would be able to eliminate one lens, but then they would be putting a 4K lens into two 1080P projectors. Does not sound like a cost saving measure to me, especially if Sony provided lens options. Believe me, if it was a cheaper way to go, manufacturers would be doing it. It is done on the pro side, because often times the throw is real long, but not always, so manufacturers have to offer different lens to make their projectors work.
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post #108 of 110 Old 04-21-2018, 12:43 PM
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Believe me, if it was a cheaper way to go, manufacturers would be doing it.
Now that, we can definitely agree on!

I still think in the long run manufacturers will HAVE to start being more modular to prove their green credentials as it is obvious we can't go on just making everything out of plastic and changing stuff once a year.

Mind you, when rollable screens and/or video walls become affordable, projection will become even more niche, if not extinct.

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post #109 of 110 Old 04-23-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I'm thinking the same thing. I don't think JVCs resale value is quite as high as it was 5-6 years ago as well, but I'd love to be wrong.
Projectors where more money then, I bet % wise they are about the same......

---As far as upcoming electronics and waiting, there is never a good time to buy electronics. A product comes out at a good price, price change thru out the year, sometimes prices go up, sometimes they come down, usually down though. Close out time is upon us, usually the best deals of the year, but look at the new product coming out soon with all that "new" glitter and gold, just wow . I will just wait till the first price drop or next year, then I will buy, I say to myself......process starts over.........lol.
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post #110 of 110 Old 04-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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In answer to the OP's question, the best time to buy is when the item you want does all you want it to.

If you wait in the hope of the next big thing, you will never stop waiting.

If the feature you want is not yet available, then waiting is an option, but there are no guarantees as to what features will be added, or when, by any manufacturer.


“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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