DLP contrast worse than 5 years ago? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by coug7669 View Post
Your comments fail when you have JVC selling DLP's in the home theater 3k market. JVC has sold DLP's before,yet, they were for the business market. JVC's new DLP entry is testament that DLP still has legs. The market for JVC's were mid price 4-8K and higher price 35k and then their simulation market. JVC was missing the sub 3k market. That JVC chose to go with DLP instead of Lcos speaks volumes that they could not compete at the new price level without cannibalizing their Lcos markets. So the under 3k market is where TI excels at, at the expense of JVC until now. I seriously doubt that JVC would enter into a dying market as you state DLP is. TI's DLP is the volume leader in projector sales overall. In the sub 3k market DLP rules and that is why JVC went DLP instead of Lcos at this pricepoint.
I said dead in the high-end, not dead entirely. But possibly dead entirely if someone wants to make a better low-cost LCOS like an improved hw45es.

JVC has been selling projectors below $3k through dealers for a very long time. DLP is dead in the high-end market, this is a budget play.
Projectors rarely sell for MSRP. JVC even had specials on the HD250 years and years ago for well under $3000 at times.
A lot of dealers sell the starting line JVC projectors well under $3,000 or not much above. Even the RS-4xx series mostly sells well under $3k, but it does vary.

It's nothing more than a market experiment for them to see if they can grab some market share in the sub-3k market.

I wouldn't be surprised to see JVC blowing these out at around $1500 or less eventually, and then just discontinuing them entirely...

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post #32 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Laser is a great technology and really looking forward to when we can actually get RGB laser, but any review that says the UHZ65 has good contrast is BS. And yes, I have seen the projector. Has good sharpness and okay, not great light output, but contrast is really lacking. Put it in a good room and compare to a high contrast projector and you see a huge difference. Everybody looks at the max brightness spec of 3,000, but calibrated it is around 1,250 lumens at short throw. Also brightness uniformity is pretty bad. Measure it at the cornes and that number drops to around 800 lumens. https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...age-brightness

Added
The best LCD projectors do not have very high native contrast, so I could see the UHZ65 looking okay, when compared to LCD.

The bolded part is weird. Go to the owners thread and you will see good calibrations with over 2000 lumens, even in HDR mode.

And about the contrast, why should we ignore the professional calibrator opinion in that video, and even ignore the results the video comparison is showing? (I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious to know what do you think is wrong with that video)
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post #33 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:03 AM
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Calibrated output is complex to compare between 2 so very different projectors like a JVC/Sony vs. a Laser DLP.
Especially when the Laser DLP is not even using an RGBRGB color wheel, that makes it even harder.

The truth is the Optoma is a very difficult projector to calibrate and everyone's results will vary to the point of 'near madness'.
The best estimate is around 1500 lumens will give you a decent calibration likely around 3-6 dE, which should be fine for this PJ to most people.

1250 lumens at closest throw is a low-ball estimate, and I don't think most people would calibrate this PJ like that.
1300 - 1500 Lumens should be about worst case frankly if you did a quick calibration and didn't put the correct effort into it.

2000+ would be pushing it from all the graphs I have seen, this would more than likely put you around 8-15 dE and I don't consider that calibrated.
1800 would be do-able if you are willing to make some concessions.

You'll likely end up around 1400-1500 at mid-throw with a dE under 6 (or 1500-1700 at closest), depends how many calibration attempts you take and what concessions you feel are 'ok'.

Realistically though, if you want a calibrated image as accurate as a JVC or Sony, this isn't the projector for you. Even attempting to calibrate it that accurately is a waste of time and you will just keep going in circles from everything I have read. Plus you will waste the lumens.

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post #34 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jpbonadio View Post
And about the contrast, why should we ignore the professional calibrator opinion in that video...
The more pertinent question is why we should put weight on the statements in a video of a source with no established history, who provides no numbers/measurements, and who is a seller of the machine?
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post #35 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jpbonadio View Post
The bolded part is weird. Go to the owners thread and you will see good calibrations with over 2000 lumens, even in HDR mode.

And about the contrast, why should we ignore the professional calibrator opinion in that video, and even ignore the results the video comparison is showing? (I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious to know what do you think is wrong with that video)
What is weird? I can find you owners and reviews that rave about most any product, even those that are complete junk. I provided measurements from a site that generally does pretty good with reviews. I provided a measurement, not opinion. 1,100:1 is not and never will be good or high native contrast. I have been around projectors for a long time. Have owned a long list of projectors. Have sold off a couple this year, but still own six projectors right now. I go to CEDIA every year and get to see all of the new models. For native 4K I have had in my room, VW600, VW1000 and JVC RS4500, so I know what a good projector looks like.
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post #36 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Calibrated output is complex to compare between 2 so very different projectors like a JVC/Sony vs. a Laser DLP.
Especially when the Laser DLP is not even using an RGBRGB color wheel, that makes it even harder.

The truth is the Optoma is a very difficult projector to calibrate and everyone's results will vary to the point of 'near madness'.
The best estimate is around 1500 lumens will give you a decent calibration likely around 3-6 dE, which should be fine for this PJ to most people.

1250 lumens at closest throw is a low-ball estimate, and I don't think most people would calibrate this PJ like that.
1300 - 1500 Lumens should be about worst case frankly if you did a quick calibration and didn't put the correct effort into it.

2000+ would be pushing it from all the graphs I have seen, this would more than likely put you around 8-15 dE and I don't consider that calibrated.
1800 would be do-able if you are willing to make some concessions.

You'll likely end up around 1400-1500 at mid-throw with a dE under 6 (or 1500-1700 at closest), depends how many calibration attempts you take and what concessions you feel are 'ok'.

Realistically though, if you want a calibrated image as accurate as a JVC or Sony, this isn't the projector for you. Even attempting to calibrate it that accurately is a waste of time and you will just keep going in circles from everything I have read. Plus you will waste the lumens.
That would be with a DE below 3.
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post #37 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
A firmware update is not going to change native contrast. It can improve dynamic contrast. Keep in mind, a higher number with dynamic contrast does not necessarily mean better. The higher the multiplier is, the easier it is to notice the iris /dynamic system working. The goal of an iris or dynamic dimming system is not to be noticed.
DLP PJ's have a lot going on in terms of coordination between the colour wheel, the individual pixel positions and the displayed content. The only way to know for certain if the firmware is effecting "native" contrast would be to compare the same PJ wth the two firmware versions.Granted, I wouldn't expect a huge difference in Ansi contrast.
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post #38 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:15 AM
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The problem is what people are referring to as 'calibrated'. We've had this discussion before for this projector.

If anyone is so unpicky as to not care about losing 40x the contrast, then I'll also assume they'll not care about an extra 1-3 dE in the color.
I would care, but I don't think most buying this PJ would.

It's easy to say for some projectors to say 'calibrated' vs. 'calibrated'...
I mean for a JVC vs. Sony, this is easy 90% of the time across any of their projectors.

The truth is, the Optoma doesn't really have a perfect calibration, the best calibration will cost too many lumens.
The point being, no-one is really all that likely to watch this PJ with the dials fully max'd into acheiving the lowest dE calibration because it doesn't calibrate like a Sony or JVC.

This isn't just for a Laser Optoma either, it applies to most projectors that are not RGBRGB color wheels.
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post #39 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The more pertinent question is why we should put weight on the statements in a video of a source with no established history, who provides no numbers/measurements, and who is a seller of the machine?
The seller, sells both reviewed PJs and probably makes more money on the costlier product.
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post #40 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
That would be with a DE below 3.
I agree, but the difference in the end being if you use a 5 dE on a JVC or Sony, you won't get many extra lumens because the spread isn't there.
The spread is too great to do a perfect comparison really.

It could be done I suppose if someone wanted to spend a few days going back and forth calibrating and watching a JVC vs. UHZ-65, then they could quantify it in terms of visual acuity.
Trying to quantify it in terms of that last dE under 3 is a bit difficult with this large spread and so many potential errors in reviewers' calibrations.

On some of these non-rgbrgb devices the lumens loss can get crazy once you get under a certain point.

Plus, a lot of the reviewers used the wrong modes to calibrate the projector. They did the same thing on the Optoma UHD-60...

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post #41 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
The seller, sells both reviewed PJs and probably makes more money on the costlier product.
I can name reviewers for every projector that have the review wrong.
The Optoma is interesting because it's a fairly sharp DLP projector with a Laser Engine, but the contrast breaks the deal for me by a mile, sorry.

I would never spend this kind of money on a projector with that low of contrast, regardless.

As far as who is right or wrong - well it's all relative
This happens even for the best reviewers. Generally speaking though, trust those like Kris Deering from S&V over most.
I pretty much take PJC, Kraine, and all the other reviews with a tad more than a grain of salt. PJR I put somewhere in the middle (depends on context).

The majority of people would prefer a JVC over the Optoma for movies.
The Optoma would only really beat it in documentaries like Planet Earth type stuff and maybe Sports and general TV.
The Optoma has a lot of gaming lag and no 3D either.

So depends what you care about I suppose.

Native Contrast is very very important for movie aficionados.

There is too much purchase justification in this forum
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post #42 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I can name reviewers for every projector that have the review wrong.
The Optoma is interesting because it's a fairly sharp DLP projector with a Laser Engine, but the contrast breaks the deal for me by a mile, sorry.

I would never spend this kind of money on a projector with that low of contrast, regardless.

As far as who is right or wrong - well it's all relative
This happens even for the best reviewers. Generally speaking though, trust those like Kris Deering from S&V over most.
I pretty much take PJC, Kraine, and all the other reviews with a tad more than a grain of salt. PJR I put somewhere in the middle (depends on context).

The majority of people would prefer a JVC over the Optoma for movies.
The Optoma would only really beat it in documentaries like Planet Earth type stuff and maybe Sports and general TV.
The Optoma has a lot of gaming lag and no 3D either.

So depends what you care about I suppose.

Native Contrast is very very important for movie aficionados.

There is too much purchase justification in this forum
Lots of things are important to movie aficionados and contrast is just one of them. The other thing that is not being considered is that the Optoma will only be 10% through it's life at 2000 hrs while the JVC's lamp will be half done. I wonder how the two would compare then?
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post #43 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Added
The best LCD projectors do not have very high native contrast, so I could see the UHZ65 looking okay, when compared to LCD.
Indeed I agree that having a similar LCD or DLP as your reference point affects your view of the performance greatly.
For instance, I finally tested my older DLP yesterday vs the RS520 and the differences in black levels and contrast were so huge. I never realized how washed out the image was and looking at something like Hobbit (desolation of smaug) when its all Dark then the title screen comes up and the first night scene begins ...it was a revelation to my eyes.

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post #44 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I agree, but the difference in the end being if you use a 5 dE on a JVC or Sony, you won't get many extra lumens because the spread isn't there.
The spread is too great to do a perfect comparison really.

It could be done I suppose if someone wanted to spend a few days going back and forth calibrating and watching a JVC vs. UHZ-65, then they could quantify it in terms of visual acuity.
Trying to quantify it in terms of that last dE under 3 is a bit difficult with this large spread and so many potential errors in reviewers' calibrations.

On some of these non-rgbrgb devices the lumens loss can get crazy once you get under a certain point.

Plus, a lot of the reviewers used the wrong modes to calibrate the projector. They did the same thing on the Optoma UHD-60...
I used 3de because that is what is universally accepted as calibrated. Yes, if you accept higher error, you will get higher lumens. But I don't think from a discussion of it that you give one projector a brightness advantage when comparing to another, just because it loses so much light, getting to where it should. But I do agree that it should be mentioned, that you will gain around 250 lumens if you allow just a little bit of error.
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post #45 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Luis Gabriel Gerena View Post
Indeed I agree that having a similar LCD or DLP as your reference point affects your view of the performance greatly.
For instance, I finally tested my older DLP yesterday vs the RS520 and the differences in black levels and contrast were so huge. I never realized how washed out the image was and looking at something like Hobbit (desolation of smaug) when its all Dark then the title screen comes up and the first night scene begins ...it was a revelation to my eyes.
Yep, a lot of it has to do with what you have been able to compare or at least experience. Just like pretty much every body that buys their first projector is blown away, even if it was a cheap low contrast projector.
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post #46 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 02:18 PM
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Yep, a lot of it has to do with what you have been able to compare or at least experience. Just like pretty much every body that buys their first projector is blown away, even if it was a cheap low contrast projector.
Ha tell me about it...my jaw dropped the first time I saw a projector..the Sony W400Q! For which I paid more than I did for my RS520 to make it worst
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post #47 of 643 Old 04-09-2018, 04:06 PM
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I would consider the spread from the max torch mode when figuring calibrated lumens, because otherwise it is too easy to just cherry pick 'calibrated lumens' from one reviewer when we know there is going to be a big variance with this type of projector between reviewers.

I think most people would rather have a LASER projector that can do 1400 Lumens but has a torch mode available if needed, then have a UHP based projector that starts at 1500...
There is a point to where having extra brightness is more important than having perfect accuracy all the time, hence as the lamp ages.
When I squeezed 2800 hours out of a JVC lamp that one time, I actually calibrated 3D mode to make it a bit brighter to last as long as it did.

My issues with this projector are not brightness related, just the lack of contrast.

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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I would consider the spread from the max torch mode when figuring calibrated lumens, because otherwise it is too easy to just cherry pick 'calibrated lumens' from one reviewer when we know there is going to be a big variance with this type of projector between reviewers.

I think most people would rather have a LASER projector that can do 1400 Lumens but has a torch mode available if needed, then have a UHP based projector that starts at 1500...
There is a point to where having extra brightness is more important than having perfect accuracy all the time, hence as the lamp ages.
When I squeezed 2800 hours out of a JVC lamp that one time, I actually calibrated 3D mode to make it a bit brighter to last as long as it did.

My issues with this projector are not brightness related, just the lack of contrast.
Same here. As I said it had decent, not great brightness. Lack of contrast is the real issue.
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post #49 of 643 Old 04-10-2018, 12:50 AM
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Lots of things are important to movie aficionados and contrast is just one of them. The other thing that is not being considered is that the Optoma will only be 10% through it's life at 2000 hrs while the JVC's lamp will be half done. I wonder how the two would compare then?
What projector do you have in your HT? And how good is your HT set up in regards to light control (ambient and reflections)?
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post #50 of 643 Old 04-10-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Lots of things are important to movie aficionados and contrast is just one of them. The other thing that is not being considered is that the Optoma will only be 10% through it's life at 2000 hrs while the JVC's lamp will be half done. I wonder how the two would compare then?
The JVC would be dimmer and still be in a different league picture wise. You could also replace the bulb. Most of us buying lamp based units are prepared for this.

I had the opportunity to see an Optoma UHD60 recently. My first 2 projectors were both Infocus DLPs (an IN76 and X10). There's no gentle way to put it, the picture was not that good. I know most of the discussion is around the laser based UHD65, but even if it was several times better than the UHD60 I still could not recommend it. It was eye opening to see how much DLPs had regressed.

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Yeah, the 0.95" DC4 DMD is still the pinnacle of DLP technology, every development since then has been to reduce cost/price, not increase performance.
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
What projector do you have in your HT? And how good is your HT set up in regards to light control (ambient and reflections)?

Only one of our residences has a semi-dedicated theatre room. I have a late model W1070 in it, but the room is not optimal in terms of wall colour or ambient light, at least not yet, but as we only spend our winters there, it's been slow going in terms of improving it. Elsewhere our PJs double as TV replacements and have to operate with lots of ambient light.
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post #53 of 643 Old 04-10-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yeah, the 0.95" DC4 DMD is still the pinnacle of DLP technology, every development since then has been to reduce cost/price, not increase performance.
Unfortunately very true. Just give us dual stacked DMD's so that you can get good contrast out of a DLP and increase the light output and many people would go back to DLP. Of course now they will also need to give us wider color space. So I see the divide just getting bigger between DLP and LCOS.
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post #54 of 643 Old 04-10-2018, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Only one of our residences has a semi-dedicated theatre room. I have a late model W1070 in it, but the room is not optimal in terms of wall colour or ambient light, at least not yet, but as we only spend our winters there, it's been slow going in terms of improving it. Elsewhere our PJs double as TV replacements and have to operate with lots of ambient light.
Well, when you're in a dedicated room, and you have a high native contrast PJ like a JVC set up correctly, and compare it side by side (as I have done) to a high native contrast DLP (high for DLP!), which was a Mits HC3800 w/3000:1 native contrast, the MAIN difference IS contrast and blacks. That is what you pay for and that's what most (if not all) 'movie aficionados' with PJ's in dedicated rooms are most concerned with.

The W1070 native contrast is less than 2000:1. Bottom line is that with blu ray movies there's lots of low APL scenes that will suffer with low contrast PJ and for just about any movie aficionado with a dedicated PJ and room, it IS a big deal.

Now, can you live with 2000-3000:1 native contrast and blu ray movies? Of course. I did for like 15 years, with 3 different PJ's. But I, like all of us w/o JVC contrast/blacks, yearned for the ultimate, the last piece of that PQ prize.

Until you've experienced almost total black outs, black space scenes where it looks like you're in a black hole looking out 16:9 window into space, you just won't know. Even commercial theaters can't get this black/dark (they have to keep the scone and runway lights on to prevent lawsuit trips and it hurts blacks/contrast).

Now, for sports, gaming, planet earth, etc. type content, contrast/blacks isn't the main goal. And in non-dedicated rooms, where there's always ambient light, a JVC would be a waste. But for movies, contrast is probably one of the most important PQ attributes. These days the differences with all the other attributes (sharpness, colors, brightness) are relatively similar with movie content.

I personally bought a used JVC and sold my previous DLP to a friend...so my outlay was only about $1600 total for an awesome upgrade
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post #55 of 643 Old 04-10-2018, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Well, when you're in a dedicated room, and you have a high native contrast PJ like a JVC set up correctly, and compare it side by side (as I have done) to a high native contrast DLP (high for DLP!), which was a Mits HC3800 w/3000:1 native contrast, the MAIN difference IS contrast and blacks. That is what you pay for and that's what most (if not all) 'movie aficionados' with PJ's in dedicated rooms are most concerned with.

The W1070 native contrast is less than 2000:1. Bottom line is that with blu ray movies there's lots of low APL scenes that will suffer with low contrast PJ and for just about any movie aficionado with a dedicated PJ and room, it IS a big deal.

Now, can you live with 2000-3000:1 native contrast and blu ray movies? Of course. I did for like 15 years, with 3 different PJ's. But I, like all of us w/o JVC contrast/blacks, yearned for the ultimate, the last piece of that PQ prize.

Until you've experienced almost total black outs, black space scenes where it looks like you're in a black hole looking out 16:9 window into space, you just won't know. Even commercial theaters can't get this black/dark (they have to keep the scone and runway lights on to prevent lawsuit trips and it hurts blacks/contrast).

Now, for sports, gaming, planet earth, etc. type content, contrast/blacks isn't the main goal. And in non-dedicated rooms, where there's always ambient light, a JVC would be a waste. But for movies, contrast is probably one of the most important PQ attributes. These days the differences with all the other attributes (sharpness, colors, brightness) are relatively similar with movie content.

I personally bought a used JVC and sold my previous DLP to a friend...so my outlay was only about $1600 total for an awesome upgrade
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was the manager and projectionist of a 400 seat independent cinema equipped with a 35mm 3 platter projector (and a single reel carbon arc projector). What I enjoyed then was a huge screen, and crisply focused image filled with minute detail. As you state, black levels were not superb, but the immersive quality of the image more than compensated for that, IMHO. After the first night with a new film (when I could trust the splices) , I would sit in the first or 2nd row and watch the film in the auditorium.

I find that DLP Pjs like my W1070 give me a similar film like quality especially if the image is large (~140in my HT). I don't mind losing some blacks as long as details in shadows are preserved and not crushed.
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post #56 of 643 Old 04-11-2018, 01:04 AM
 
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Calibrated output is complex to compare between 2 so very different projectors like a JVC/Sony vs. a Laser DLP.


Especially when the Laser DLP is not even using an RGBRGB color wheel, that makes it even harder.
And it probably won't ever be, for laser phosphor anyway. There's no need for a blue segment on the wheel, you'd just lose wider blue gamut coverage since the wheel segment won't be as saturated as the blue laser. There's a reason all the laser based DLPs use the dual phosphor (blue and yellow) and color wheels (red and green) and not a single RGBRGB wheel.



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....The truth is the Optoma is a very difficult projector to calibrate and everyone's results will vary to the point of 'near madness'.

The best estimate is around 1500 lumens will give you a decent calibration likely around 3-6 dE, which should be fine for this PJ to most people.



1250 lumens at closest throw is a low-ball estimate, and I don't think most people would calibrate this PJ like that.

1300 - 1500 Lumens should be about worst case frankly if you did a quick calibration and didn't put the correct effort into it.



2000+ would be pushing it from all the graphs I have seen, this would more than likely put you around 8-15 dE and I don't consider that calibrated.

1800 would be do-able if you are willing to make some concessions.



You'll likely end up around 1400-1500 at mid-throw with a dE under 6 (or 1500-1700 at closest), depends how many calibration attempts you take and what concessions you feel are 'ok'.



Realistically though, if you want a calibrated image as accurate as a JVC or Sony, this isn't the projector for you. Even attempting to calibrate it that accurately is a waste of time and you will just keep going in circles from everything I have read. Plus you will waste the lumens.

Totally agree.
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post #57 of 643 Old 04-11-2018, 04:42 AM
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Well, when you're in a dedicated room, and you have a high native contrast PJ like a JVC set up correctly, and compare it side by side (as I have done) to a high native contrast DLP (high for DLP!),
Absolutely, I've got a Planar 8150 and an RS600 in my HT. Contrast is the main difference. If you were to watch bright content, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, both can be calibrated to near perfection as far as color goes, sharpness is a tossup, brightness can be matched (but the RS600 has a lot more on tap if you need it).

But when you throw in something like Harry Potter or Star Wars, it's no contest. The JVC just blows the Planar out of the water, blacks look black, not milky gray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I find that DLP Pjs like my W1070 give me a similar film like quality especially if the image is large (~140in my HT). I don't mind losing some blacks as long as details in shadows are preserved and not crushed.
Shadow detail is a calibration issue. Other than that, sounds like you haven't seen a properly setup modern JVC (or Sony for that matter).
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post #58 of 643 Old 04-11-2018, 09:11 AM
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Absolutely, I've got a Planar 8150 and an RS600 in my HT. Contrast is the main difference. If you were to watch bright content, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, both can be calibrated to near perfection as far as color goes, sharpness is a tossup, brightness can be matched (but the RS600 has a lot more on tap if you need it).

But when you throw in something like Harry Potter or Star Wars, it's no contest. The JVC just blows the Planar out of the water, blacks look black, not milky gray.
I remember lusting after the Planar 8150 back when I had my Mits HC3800 DLP. The Mits had no Iris...dynamic or manual. The 8150 supposedly had an excellent DI, multiplying the contrast performance of that DLP. I remember keeping an eye out for a used one.

Ended up with a very nice, low mileage JVC RS57 (X700) about a year ago.

But the way you describe the blacks of your 8150, it makes it sound like my Mits HC3800

Is your 8150 moot now? Doesn't seem like there's any reason to fire it up?
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post #59 of 643 Old 04-11-2018, 09:33 AM
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Is your 8150 moot now? Doesn't seem like there's any reason to fire it up?
The lag on my JVC is too high for most gaming, so that's the only reason I still have the Planar.
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If I had a spare projector, DLP or otherwise, I'd be furiously stuffing rec 2020 lasers into it to make fun stuff happen.

Yes, they can be bought. Easily. Just make sure you use appropriate eye safety wear.
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