When is the next line of 4k projectors comming? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
I've been waiting years for a full featured 4K DLP. The Benq HT9060 is almost "there". The only thing missing from my wishlist is powered lens controls and lens memory. Any ideas when they will be available?
I would encourage you to view these in person. Solid state lighting is nice, but it in no way makes up for the deficiencies in the current crop of 4K DLPs. Picture quality wise it's the most disappointing new tech I've seen. An Epson 5040 is in a completely different league picture quality wise and the Sony/JVCs are step up from there.
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post #122 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
I've been waiting years for a full featured 4K DLP. The Benq HT9060 is almost "there". The only thing missing from my wishlist is powered lens controls and lens memory. Any ideas when they will be available?
Optomas HLD LED based on Coretronic D100 may have these powered controls as it is part of the reference design of the D100. However there is not even an official name for it so probably will come out some time after the HT9060.
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post #123 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 09:54 AM
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I can’t wait for the day when LED or laser technology allows for fan-less, totally silent designs that will last longer due to minuscule amounts of heat generated.

In my soundproofed, dedicated room I can hear my ceiling fan motor, projector fan on low/eco mode and I could even tell when my led lights were on prior to changing to a control4 lighting switch.

No fan noise means a lower noise floor which is always a good thing.

I wonder what the technical reason for lack of LED use is. Maybe color purity or something to do with the way/direction the photons emit from the LED chip? It can’t be the brightness.


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post #124 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Imagine when you will be able to get a MicroLED array to allow you to only have one display device that fulfills all of the criteria!


Is the micro LED the tech that covers the screen wall or is it in a projector? I don’t like the idea of moving to large, flexible screens we can roll onto the wall unless it is acoustically transparent.


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post #125 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I can’t wait for the day when LED or laser technology allows for fan-less, totally silent designs that will last longer due to minuscule amounts of heat generated.

In my soundproofed, dedicated room I can hear my ceiling fan motor, projector fan on low/eco mode and I could even tell when my led lights were on prior to changing to a control4 lighting switch.

No fan noise means a lower noise floor which is always a good thing.

I wonder what the technical reason for lack of LED use is. Maybe color purity or something to do with the way/direction the photons emit from the LED chip? It can’t be the brightness.


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The main issue with LED is the entendue (spread) doesnt match up well with the small DMDs in projectors. As a result LED typically cant compete with laser in brightness whose entendue matches up better.

However Philips Colorspark HLD LED uses colored High Lumen Density phosphor rods combined with blue leds to better focus the etendue of led with a 0.66" DMD. They also have another version of the HLD rods in development for 0.47" DMD size. Finally the current implementation uses a single HLD rod but apparently there is a dual rod version in development that can produce up to 5000 lumens.

While blue laser is brighter for overall color fidelity i believe the Colorspark HLD LED tech is the best light source solution until the far future where RGB laser is both available and affordable.

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post #126 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I can’t wait for the day when LED or laser technology allows for fan-less, totally silent designs that will last longer due to minuscule amounts of heat generated.

In my soundproofed, dedicated room I can hear my ceiling fan motor, projector fan on low/eco mode and I could even tell when my led lights were on prior to changing to a control4 lighting switch.

No fan noise means a lower noise floor which is always a good thing.

I wonder what the technical reason for lack of LED use is. Maybe color purity or something to do with the way/direction the photons emit from the LED chip? It can’t be the brightness.


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Laser certainly generates heat,and fan noise. Still, I won't go back to lamps - laser is the future !
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post #127 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 02:22 PM
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The problem today is the laser tax... at least from JVC and Sony. 35K and 25K wayyy too much considering neither are really light cannons.. The expensive VW5000ES reaches that territory of lumen output and could still use more. Some folks are stacking them for large screens

Epson found a way to release it at a reasonable price in the LS10000 and LS10500 but the light output is less than the competing lamp based models. Optoma did it for under 5K and other brands for even less coming out of korea and china.

laser phosphor shouldn't be crazy expensive at this point.

If JVC or Sony can't figure how how to make it cost effective over next 2 years, I would be interested in a native UHD JVC with similar contrast to current models using the same long lasting lamps they have in the recent models.
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post #128 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 03:15 PM
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I would like to see larger diameter, slower rpm fans to reduce noise or better engineered cooling solutions that are quieter. This is an area where we have seen no improvement over 10 years.


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post #129 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Is the micro LED the tech that covers the screen wall or is it in a projector? I don’t like the idea of moving to large, flexible screens we can roll onto the wall unless it is acoustically transparent.


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There are a lot of permutations to cater for but I think they will find ways of doing these things.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #130 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Laser certainly generates heat,and fan noise. Still, I won't go back to lamps - laser is the future !
I don't understand why lasers generate so much heat. I thought they were more efficient than LED?

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post #131 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
I don't believe it, there's always something . Perfection is never achieved .
Can't put speakers behind an LED screen.
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post #132 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I don't understand why lasers generate so much heat. I thought they were more efficient than LED?
Interestingly, the power consumption of the RS4500 is almost 2x the RS540. It is brighter of course, so that is part of it, but certainly no power usage reduction. Also it weighs over 2x as much. 82lbs!!!
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post #133 of 3111 Old 07-10-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
I've been waiting years for a full featured 4K DLP. The Benq HT9060 is almost "there". The only thing missing from my wishlist is powered lens controls and lens memory. Any ideas when they will be available?
The upcoming Optoma LED suppose to have powered lens and zoom but no lens memory. This projector will be very similar to Benq HT9060 with those extras. I'm also waiting for LED DLP, but not sure which one of these two i'll be buying.
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post #134 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Interestingly, the power consumption of the RS4500 is almost 2x the RS540. It is brighter of course, so that is part of it, but certainly no power usage reduction. Also it weighs over 2x as much. 82lbs!!!
Yes, it's a beast. And it is one sweet projector. I'm still amazed at the picture. But I did reinforce my closet shelf to hold it !

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post #135 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
The upcoming Optoma LED suppose to have powered lens and zoom but no lens memory. This projector will be very similar to Benq HT9060 with those extras. I'm also waiting for LED DLP, but not sure which one of these two i'll be buying.
Makes no difference. If the contrast is as poor with these 4K DLPs as all the other 4K DLPs then there is no point spending over $1500 on them. The primary picture quality element that distinguishes a cheap projector from a quality projector is native contrast. With contrast ratios of less than 2000:1, these 4K DLP projectors just can't compete.
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post #136 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Makes no difference. If the contrast is as poor with these 4K DLPs as all the other 4K DLPs then there is no point spending over $1500 on them. The primary picture quality element that distinguishes a cheap projector from a quality projector is native contrast. With contrast ratios of less than 2000:1, these 4K DLP projectors just can't compete.
For you. Not for everyone.
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post #137 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 11:20 AM
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For you. Not for everyone.
I know that we have had this argument before and I admire your determination to support DLP technology even though TI has effectively abandoned any future R&D on their patented chip design.

But why is it that every year at CES they judge the best looking TV picture quality and every year for as long as I can remember they always select the TV technology that can deliver the best native contrast and deepest black levels. It used to be RCA true color tech, then Sony Trinitron, next plasma displays won the awards, now it is OLED. All are usually judged winners primarily due to their excellent contrast and inky blacks.

Similarly, the best projection systems are those that deliver not only the truest color but the deepest blacks and the best contrast. The entire HDR revolution that is taking place is about extending dynamic range so that you can have deeper blacks and brighter brights. Kris Deering measured the last round of DLP 4K bulb projectors with less than 1200:1 native contrast. That is just pitiful.

I know that you can say that native contrast isn't important or that ANSI contrast is more important or that the eye is tricked when you have brights and darks on the screen at the same time. But all of that is just an excuse for an enormous shortcoming in black levels and native contrast. I wish DLP 4K would put more pressure on Sony and JVC with their very pricy LCoS designs. I wish Epson would develop LCoQ and get a 4K design on the market. But until DLP 4K actually utilize a larger true 4K chip which will allow for increased contrast then I just don't think it is worth paying the high dollars for these projectors no matter how many features they may or may not have.
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post #138 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
My vw760es/vw885es does a lot better than 16k, I think it was measured at 20k?

Edit: just look at my measurements, 20687:1 in SDR, 26060:1 in HDR Measurement done by arrow av, who's pretty neutral.
Hey, what do you mean 'pretty' neutral?

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That is higher than most are reporting, but you can substitute 20k:1 in my post, where I have 16K:1. My point is still the same. 20,000:1 and 24,000:1 is the same as far as the eye is concerned. So is 24,000:1 and 26,000:1.
That figure is higher than what is typical because the particular unit is way above average with respect to its performance. Peak luminance capability was/is also significantly higher as compared with typical as well; wherein it measured 2,016 lumens.

Typical native contrast performance for the SONY 885/760ES post-calibration is circa 16,000 - 17,000:1; and typical peak luminance 1,600 - 1,800 lumens.

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post #139 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Is the micro LED the tech that covers the screen wall or is it in a projector? I don’t like the idea of moving to large, flexible screens we can roll onto the wall unless it is acoustically transparent.


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I can't see how micro LEDs would ever be acoustically transparent. I do believe they will be the next big thing if all that is said about them is true.

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post #140 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Hey, what do you mean 'pretty' neutral?


That figure is higher than what is typical because the particular unit is way above average with respect to its performance. Peak luminance capability was/is also significantly higher as compared with typical as well; wherein it measured 2,016 lumens.

Typical native contrast performance for the SONY 885/760ES post-calibration is circa 16,000 - 17,000:1; and typical peak luminance 1,600 - 1,800 lumens.

Sounds like christoffeldg got an exceptional sample.
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post #141 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 01:35 PM
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I am reading some very interesting discussion in this thread regarding what are the most important aspects that make a good video image.

Here's my two cents.. According to not only the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF), but also THX; both of whom drive industry standards and train professional video calibrators worldwide, resolution is not the most important factor influencing video performance and hence good picture quality.

In fact, it’s quite a way down the list of importance. According to both ISF and THX, the least of the key parameters is resolution; the single most apparent thing you see is dynamic range; contrast and black level are most important; of next importance is colour saturation, depth, subsampling, and accuracy; and resolution is less important as compared with all of these. Furthermore, personally I'd also consider peak luminance, gamma performance, motion handling, and uniformity to be of at least equal importance too.

Specifically, ISF president and founder, Joel Silver reports that “the fourth and least of the four key parameters is resolution;” and “the single most apparent thing you see is dynamic range.” Similarly, Gregg Loewen, who heads the THX professional video calibration trainings worldwide, says “contrast and black level are most important” and that “resolution is only fourth behind contrast, colour saturation and colour accuracy”.

That said, of course personal preference will play a role here, in that for some people contrast and black levels might be of lesser importance than others, whom might consider resolution to be higher up on the list of importance; but I think it's fair to say that there are a several aspects, the summation of which influences how good or bad is the perceived overall video image quality.

With respect to image contrast and black level, I also consider that it's not just the native contrast performance, but also both the ANSI contrast performance and the dynamic contrast functionality that are also important.

For example, I am currently in process of completing a comprehensive in-depth review and evaluation report with respect to a brand new home cinema/theater projector, which uniquely sports all of:

• High ON/OFF contrast (circa 30,000:1 at typical light output levels; so about on par with the JVC laser projectors)

• The highest ever ANSI contrast (900:1 - 1,000:1; which is circa 3-5 times greater than the JVC and SONY projectors)

• Perfect dynamic dimming/contrast functionality (entirely devoid of pumping or artefacts)

• The combination of which equates to a ‘Triple-Whammy’ resulting in the best contrast and perceived black level performance of any home theater/cinema projector currently available in the world.

• 7,000 lumens (approx.) peak luminance calibrated

• Up to 107% coverage of DCI-P3 and 85% of BT.2020 color gamuts

• True 10-bit color processing

• Perfect focus and image uniformity

• Small footprint

• Low operating noise levels


Whilst I appreciate that screenshots are frowned upon by many folks on here (with good reason); because, typically, photos taken of projected images by people are almost always inaccurate and/or by no means truly representative of what is the actual appearance of the projected image. Furthermore, in many instances video editing is subsequently applied, yet even further altering their appearance. Consequently, in all such instances the photos / screenshots are of little use in evaluating what is the actual performance of the particular projector. However, in this instance all the following photos / screenshots are in fact very accurately representative of what the corresponding projected images actually look like. This is because they are raw images, which have been photographed professionally. (N.B. in order to view the images with the best accuracy this is best done via a calibrated video display, TV, or monitor.)

The ANSI Contrast performance in particular is completely insane. When I first saw a projected ANSI checkerboard pattern my jaw hit the floor because it was/is quite literally a perfect WHITE, BLACK, WHITE, BLACK. In fact, here’s an accurate photo of the projected ANSI Contrast Test Pattern; wherein, you can see this for yourself:



And here's some accurate screenshots... note the contrast, black levels, dynamic range, and color performance:
















And here's why the colour performance is so good, this being the measured DCI-P3 color gamut coverage capability:



Nice, eh?

It's the first instance of a projected image that I've seen wherein blacks actually look truly black. It outperforms the infamous Christie Dolby Vision projector in more ways than one; and the characteristics of the projected image has more in common with an OLED TV than the typical projector.

My point being that with respect to this particular new projector it's actually all the other aspects further to image resolution that in combination the summation of which produces truly exceptional projected video image performance. So this is an example of where the image resolution is in fact the least important factor.

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post #142 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 01:41 PM
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Nice Nigel. I'll guess that projector is way out of my price range, but I always need something new to dream about !
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post #143 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 01:55 PM
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Nice, eh?

It's the first instance of a projected image that I've seen wherein blacks actually look truly black. It outperforms the infamous Christie Dolby Vision projector in more ways than one; and the characteristics of the projected image has more in common with an OLED TV than the typical projector.

My point being that with respect to this particular new projector it's actually all the other aspects further to image resolution that in combination the summation of which produces truly exceptional projected video image performance. So this is an example of where the image resolution is in fact the least important factor.

So when is the review of this new projector going to be made public? Can you give any clues as to who the manufacturer is?
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post #144 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
For example, I am currently in process of completing a comprehensive in-depth review and evaluation report with respect to a brand new home cinema/theater projector, which uniquely sports all of:

• High ON/OFF contrast (circa 30,000:1 at typical light output levels; so about on par with the JVC eShift projectors)

• The highest ever ANSI contrast (900:1 - 1,000:1; which is 4-6 times greater than the best JVC and SONY projectors)

• Perfect dynamic dimming/contrast functionality (entirely devoid of pumping or artefacts)

• The combination of which equates to a ‘Triple-Whammy’ resulting in the best contrast and black level performance of any projector currently available in the world.

• 7,000 lumens peak luminance (calibrated)

• 107% coverage of DCI-P3 and 85% of BT.2020 color gamuts

• True 10-bit color processing

• Perfect focus and image uniformity

• Small footprint

• Low operating noise levels


Nice, eh?

It's the first instance of a projected image that I've seen wherein blacks actually look truly black. It outperforms the infamous Christie Dolby Vision projector in more ways than one; and the characteristics of the projected image has more in common with an OLED TV than the typical projector.

My point being that with respect to this particular new projector it's actually all the other aspects further to image resolution that in combination the summation of which produces truly exceptional projected video image performance. So this is an example of where the image resolution is in fact the least important factor.

I hate myself for saying this but.... YOU TEASE!!!!
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post #145 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 02:15 PM
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So when is the review of this new projector going to be made public? Can you give any clues as to who the manufacturer is?
I am aiming to publish my review within the next 5-6 weeks; wherein all will be revealed. After IFA and CEDIA.

The only other information I will divulge right now is that it is a high-end product, hence it is expensive; being more expensive than a SONY 5000ES, but significantly less expensive than a BARCO THOR. And in my opinion, without a doubt it produces overall the best projected video image of any projector currently available in the world as of right now.

But rather that derail this thread I'll post it in a new thread, because I am sure folks will have lots of questions and there will be quite the discussion regarding it.

The reason I mentioned it is because it's an excellent example of an instance where it's pretty much all the other aspects of video performance further to image resolution that makes this particular projector so phenomenal with respect to its video performance. The dynamic range, contrast, black levels, chroma / colour performance, coupled with high peak luminance, stand out in particular as being game-changing.

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post #146 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 02:16 PM
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post #147 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 04:17 PM
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I am reading some very interesting discussion in this thread regarding what are the most important aspects that make a good video image.

Here's my two cents.. According to not only the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF), but also THX; both of whom drive industry standards and train professional video calibrators worldwide, resolution is not the most important factor influencing video performance and hence good picture quality.

In fact, it’s quite a way down the list of importance. According to both ISF and THX, the least of the key parameters is resolution; the single most apparent thing you see is dynamic range; contrast and black level are most important; of next importance is colour saturation, depth, subsampling, and accuracy; and resolution is less important as compared with all of these. Furthermore, personally I'd also consider peak luminance, gamma performance, motion handling, and uniformity to be of at least equal importance too.

Specifically, ISF president and founder, Joel Silver reports that “the fourth and least of the four key parameters is resolution;” and “the single most apparent thing you see is dynamic range.” Similarly, Gregg Loewen, who heads the THX professional video calibration trainings worldwide, says “contrast and black level are most important” and that “resolution is only fourth behind contrast, colour saturation and colour accuracy”.

That said, of course personal preference will play a role here, in that for some people contrast and black levels might be of lesser importance than others, whom might consider resolution to be higher up on the list of importance; but I think it's fair to say that there are a several aspects, the summation of which influences how good or bad is the perceived overall video image quality.

With respect to image contrast and black level, I also consider that it's not just the native contrast performance, but also both the ANSI contrast performance and the dynamic contrast functionality that are also important.

For example, I am currently in process of completing a comprehensive in-depth review and evaluation report with respect to a brand new home cinema/theater projector, which uniquely sports all of:

• High ON/OFF contrast (circa 30,000:1 at typical light output levels; so about on par with the JVC eShift projectors)

• The highest ever ANSI contrast (900:1 - 1,000:1; which is 4-6 times greater than the best JVC and SONY projectors)

• Perfect dynamic dimming/contrast functionality (entirely devoid of pumping or artefacts)

• The combination of which equates to a ‘Triple-Whammy’ resulting in the best contrast and black level performance of any projector currently available in the world.

• 7,000 lumens peak luminance (calibrated)

• 107% coverage of DCI-P3 and 85% of BT.2020 color gamuts

• True 10-bit color processing

• Perfect focus and image uniformity

• Small footprint

• Low operating noise levels


Whilst I appreciate that screenshots are frowned upon by many folks on here (with good reason); because, typically, photos taken of projected images by people are almost always inaccurate and/or by no means truly representative of what is the actual appearance of the projected image. Furthermore, in many instances video editing is subsequently applied, yet even further altering their appearance. Consequently, in all such instances the photos / screenshots are of little use in evaluating what is the actual performance of the particular projector. However, in this instance all the following photos / screenshots are in fact very accurately representative of what the corresponding projected images actually look like. This is because they are raw images, which have been photographed professionally. (N.B. in order to view the images with the best accuracy this is best done via a calibrated video display, TV, or monitor.)

The ANSI Contrast performance in particular is completely insane. When I first saw a projected ANSI checkerboard pattern my jaw hit the floor because it was/is quite literally a perfect WHITE, BLACK, WHITE, BLACK. In fact, here’s an accurate photo of the projected ANSI Contrast Test Pattern; wherein, you can see this for yourself:



And here's some accurate screenshots... note the contrast, black levels, dynamic range, and color performance:
















And here's why the colour performance is so good, this being the measured DCI-P3 color gamut coverage capability:



Nice, eh?

It's the first instance of a projected image that I've seen wherein blacks actually look truly black. It outperforms the infamous Christie Dolby Vision projector in more ways than one; and the characteristics of the projected image has more in common with an OLED TV than the typical projector.

My point being that with respect to this particular new projector it's actually all the other aspects further to image resolution that in combination the summation of which produces truly exceptional projected video image performance. So this is an example of where the image resolution is in fact the least important factor.

Interesting specs, I do not see anything regarding 4K or HDR, is it a true 4K projector?
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post #148 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 05:06 PM
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I know that we have had this argument before and I admire your determination to support DLP technology even though TI has effectively abandoned any future R&D on their patented chip design.

But why is it that every year at CES they judge the best looking TV picture quality and every year for as long as I can remember they always select the TV technology that can deliver the best native contrast and deepest black levels. It used to be RCA true color tech, then Sony Trinitron, next plasma displays won the awards, now it is OLED. All are usually judged winners primarily due to their excellent contrast and inky blacks.

Similarly, the best projection systems are those that deliver not only the truest color but the deepest blacks and the best contrast. The entire HDR revolution that is taking place is about extending dynamic range so that you can have deeper blacks and brighter brights. Kris Deering measured the last round of DLP 4K bulb projectors with less than 1200:1 native contrast. That is just pitiful.

I know that you can say that native contrast isn't important or that ANSI contrast is more important or that the eye is tricked when you have brights and darks on the screen at the same time. But all of that is just an excuse for an enormous shortcoming in black levels and native contrast. I wish DLP 4K would put more pressure on Sony and JVC with their very pricy LCoS designs. I wish Epson would develop LCoQ and get a 4K design on the market. But until DLP 4K actually utilize a larger true 4K chip which will allow for increased contrast then I just don't think it is worth paying the high dollars for these projectors no matter how many features they may or may not have.
The functionality difference of solid state light source matters more to me than the picture difference from more native contrast. That's the bottom line.

TI arguably has done more to drive the 4K consumer projector market than any of its competitors have of late despite your claims of "no r&d".

Whether its the Optoma UHZ65 as the first 4K UHD solid state projector under $5k, the BenQ HT2550 as the first 4K UHD projector under $1500, the upcoming BenQ HT9060 as the first 4K UHD solid state projector w/ HDR+perfect 3D+full DCIP3 coverage under $10k, or the $400k RGB laser Barco Thor at the high end of the market - there are a ton of DLP options available that are unique and offer something not available from competing technologies. Plus in the pro market you have the spectacular Christie / Dolby collaboration. So I have no idea what you are talking about regarding R&D. The only thing that hasn't happened is ultra high contrast from single DMDs, and that is a tech limitation - not even the new 1.38" native 4K chip and its ultra expensive big lenses changes that reality. Since they can't move the bar on native contrast, TI has moved the bar in other areas instead - and have been very successful as a result.

The army of reasonably priced DLP 4K projectors forced Sony's hand in dropping the price of their entry level 4k projector to $5K.

The upcoming army of DLP solid state 4K will force Sony's hand in dropping the price of their entry level solid state down from its current $25k. While some would consider a $25k purchase, for most in the market that want a 4K laser projector it is a pretty tough sell that the Sony laser is worth well over $20,000 more than the UHZ65. Sure, there are people that might spend 6x+ as much money for the Sony, but most will look at the picture difference between the UHZ65 and Sony laser and decide that the difference isn't worth $20,000+ (the price of a car). Going to get even tougher for Sony once the 0.47" Colorspark HLD LEDs come out and there are solid state DLP 4K projectors for under $2500.

If you really want to see pressure on Sony/JVC/Epson to release solid state 4K UHD projectors under $10K as DLP has, the answer is simple - reject their bulb projectors under $10k, don't buy them anymore. By continuing to pay for bulb projectors under $10K you are prolonging the price gouging you are experiencing. As long as you and others continue to buy lamp projectors and willingly pay $20k+ for solid state 4K, that pricing is just what you will continue to get. Solid state DLP 4K UHD projectors are your strongest ally to bring solid state LCOS 4K UHD prices into a reasonable range.

While there is a small bubble of people on this forum that think contrast is the end all be all, for many others there are other factors that are equally or more important. This has been proven in the consumer market time and time again, as higher contrast technologies repeatedly lose out to lower contrast technologies for reasons unrelated to contrast.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-11-2018 at 05:19 PM.
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post #149 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I am aiming to publish my review within the next few weeks; wherein all will be revealed. Certainly before IFA and CEDIA.

The only other information I will divulge right now is that it is a high-end product, hence it is expensive; being more expensive than a SONY 5000ES, but significantly less expensive than a BARCO THOR. And in my opinion, without a doubt it produces overall the best projected video image of any projector currently available in the world as of right now.

But rather that derail this thread I'll post it in a new thread, because I am sure folks will have lots of questions and there will be quite the discussion regarding it.

The reason I mentioned it is because it's an excellent example of an instance where it's pretty much all the other aspects of video performance further to image resolution that makes this particular projector so phenomenal with respect to its video performance. The dynamic range, contrast, black levels, chroma / colour performance, coupled with high peak luminance, stand out in particular as being game-changing.

What is the likelihood of this brand filtering the technology down to cheaper units? And does this brand even make cheaper consumer units to begin with?

Not everybody needs 7000 lumens.

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post #150 of 3111 Old 07-11-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I am aiming to publish my review within the next few weeks; wherein all will be revealed. Certainly before IFA and CEDIA.



The only other information I will divulge right now is that it is a high-end product, hence it is expensive; being more expensive than a SONY 5000ES, but significantly less expensive than a BARCO THOR. And in my opinion, without a doubt it produces overall the best projected video image of any projector currently available in the world as of right now.



But rather that derail this thread I'll post it in a new thread, because I am sure folks will have lots of questions and there will be quite the discussion regarding it.



The reason I mentioned it is because it's an excellent example of an instance where it's pretty much all the other aspects of video performance further to image resolution that makes this particular projector so phenomenal with respect to its video performance. The dynamic range, contrast, black levels, chroma / colour performance, coupled with high peak luminance, stand out in particular as being game-changing.





My guess is a Wolf Cinema product.


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