When is the next line of 4k projectors comming? - Page 77 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2281 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
So do folk really believe the entire JVC range will be swapped to 4K native? Seems like a very bold move if so. I wonder if that explains some of the seeming quality issues maybe observed in the most recent eShiftseries - perhaps they've just been "using up the dregs" parts-wise...

If everything is going 4K - what will that do the the entry level pricing? Are folk going to have to buy in at the price which is reserved for the second level models at the moment?

If they do get 4K at the current DILA entry pricing that would be a really interesting development in the market; but my scepticism is still high for that...
I would like to think that JVC might retain at least one eShift projector and drop the price, thereby creating a new lower priced entry level projector. But this is pure speculation on my part.
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post #2282 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
So do folk really believe the entire JVC range will be swapped to 4K native? Seems like a very bold move if so. I wonder if that explains some of the seeming quality issues maybe observed in the most recent eShiftseries - perhaps they've just been "using up the dregs" parts-wise...

If everything is going 4K - what will that do the the entry level pricing? Are folk going to have to buy in at the price which is reserved for the second level models at the moment?

If they do get 4K at the current DILA entry pricing that would be a really interesting development in the market; but my scepticism is still high for that...
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I would like to think that JVC might retain at least one eShift projector and drop the price, thereby creating a new lower priced entry level projector. But this is pure speculation on my part.
.
I think you are correct on them keeping at least one eShift projector to cater to a lower priced crowed. And I will be highly impressed if they move the mid and higher end models to native 4K while keeping the same price intact and the same contrast levels.

So much speculations and soon we will all find out
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post #2283 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If they do get 4K at the current DILA entry pricing that would be a really interesting development in the market; but my scepticism is still high for that...
It would indeed. And I hope they do, as all the big players have been resting on their laurels for a little too long now.
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post #2284 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 08:29 AM
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Question JVC RS4500 versus Sony ES5000 Laser projectors

Hey guys,


I wonder why there is not one comparison here on this site between those two Laser projectors ???
Seems as long as this site has been around that we would probably see multiple Threads on them in comparison.


I'm going to take a Wild-Guess that since this site is owned by a Corporation and really is in reality a marketing internet site.
They must not sell the Sony ES5000 but they do sell the JVC RS4500.


I would think I'm hopefully not the only member that would love to see what actual members owning either of those Laser projectors would have to say.
Especially for the Rich 1 percenters on here that have multiple high-end projectors liked staked Sony ES5000 units.


I have Googled and really don't find anything in reviews directly comparing the two Laser Projectors.


Since this Thread is talking and discussing anything and everything why not some of you discussing this in the open.
Personally I'd love reading what End-Users have to say if you would like to share.


I'm asking because I will be in the Market and so far have not the information that I would really like to see comparing those.


T.

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post #2285 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 09:04 AM
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post #2286 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post
Video was posted last Thursday, but the link does confirm one thing. It says projectors, as in plural.
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post #2287 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Hey guys,


I wonder why there is not one comparison here on this site between those two Laser projectors ???
Seems as long as this site has been around that we would probably see multiple Threads on them in comparison.


I'm going to take a Wild-Guess that since this site is owned by a Corporation and really is in reality a marketing internet site.
They must not sell the Sony ES5000 but they do sell the JVC RS4500.



I would think I'm hopefully not the only member that would love to see what actual members owning either of those Laser projectors would have to say.
Especially for the Rich 1 percenters on here that have multiple high-end projectors liked staked Sony ES5000 units.


I have Googled and really don't find anything in reviews directly comparing the two Laser Projectors.


Since this Thread is talking and discussing anything and everything why not some of you discussing this in the open.
Personally I'd love reading what End-Users have to say if you would like to share.


I'm asking because I will be in the Market and so far have not the information that I would really like to see comparing those.


T.
Not true at all. Send Arrow a pm and ask him his opinion of the two projectors. They aren't really even in the same price category though. On your screen, a VW5000 would be beyond overkill.
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post #2288 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Hey guys,


I wonder why there is not one comparison here on this site between those two Laser projectors ???
Seems as long as this site has been around that we would probably see multiple Threads on them in comparison.
You are in the wrong thread.

Try looking in the $20,000+ thread.

There is one sub thread named RS4500 vs Sony 5000 and there are numerous other threads and reviews in the $20,000+ thread talking about each projector.

You are in the $3,000+ thread. The RS4500 is around $35,000 and the Sony 5000 is around $60,000.
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post #2289 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Honestly, not to deride anyone, I do feel purist groups can get out of touch with reality from occasion. Contrast is always nice, but it's absolutely not the most important image quality factor for most people. 4k is extremely important for projection because we're utilizing large screens, especially with content that makes full use of it like games. E-shift is great, but it's still a compromise and if you're used to native 4k it's difficult to go back.

And for sure, people who fall for marketing are people who go cheap imo. You go for a +5k display device, you know EXACTLY what it can do, or you're just used to throwing money around (Of which there are few). Saying people generally do not inform themselves is not true for a niche like this, especially the expensive LCOS ranges. There's a huge amount of consideration in getting a projector, from room, to screen, etc. I don't believe for a second people treat projectors in this range just like grandparents get TVs to watch football.
People think they need 4K. Still 95%+ of modern content is sourced from 2K DIs. HDR and the larger color gamuts are where the UHD formats shine.

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post #2290 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
So do folk really believe the entire JVC range will be swapped to 4K native? Seems like a very bold move if so. I wonder if that explains some of the seeming quality issues maybe observed in the most recent eShiftseries - perhaps they've just been "using up the dregs" parts-wise...

If everything is going 4K - what will that do the the entry level pricing? Are folk going to have to buy in at the price which is reserved for the second level models at the moment?

If they do get 4K at the current DILA entry pricing that would be a really interesting development in the market; but my scepticism is still high for that...
I don't know why it would be all that bold. They've had the panel for quite a while. Their competition has been doing it. If they've managed to solve the contrast on the 4K panel then you could see a sizable bump in asking price. I'd guess about $1000-2000 per tier for the first gen and slowly coming back to where they currently are as the new factor wears off. If they haven't fixed the contrast then they probably can't go that high on price bump as the demand probably won't be there.

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post #2291 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
I don't know why it would be all that bold. They've had the panel for quite a while. Their competition has been doing it. If they've managed to solve the contrast on the 4K panel then you could see a sizable bump in asking price. I'd guess about $1000-2000 per tier for the first gen and slowly coming back to where they currently are as the new factor wears off. If they haven't fixed the contrast then they probably can't go that high on price bump as the demand probably won't be there.
I agree. People need to keep in mind that the JVC pricing dropped (5 and 6 series) over the last couple of years, since there were only small changes. So we could see the pricing going back up a little bit, since it looks like we are talking about completely new products.
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post #2292 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
People think they need 4K. Still 95%+ of modern content is sourced from 2K DIs. HDR and the larger color gamuts are where the UHD formats shine.
Hopefully this will change soon.

The funny thing is that most of the studios have been shooting 4k or 5k for quite awhile now. The issue has been that it is downsampled to 2k for most digital processing and archival. Then the original 4k or 5k master was destroyed. There were many many titles that could have been scanned from 4k masters but were lost due to the decision to archive at 2k.

Alex Lindsay of Pixel Corps, has been saying that it will change very soon as most digital and computer graphics companies are upgrading equipment to handle 4k master processing.

Most of Sony's 4K titles are true 4k. 20th Century Fox and Warner Bros, not so much. Most 4k titles are really 2K.
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post #2293 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I agree. People need to keep in mind that the JVC pricing dropped (5 and 6 series) over the last couple of years, since there were only small changes. So we could see the pricing going back up a little bit, since it looks like we are talking about completely new products.
since you and kris sold the 4500's i'll assume something nice is on it's way, add me to the pre-order pls.
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post #2294 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
since you and kris sold the 4500's i'll assume something nice is on it's way, add me to the pre-order pls.
Will do.
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post #2295 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
People think they need 4K. Still 95%+ of modern content is sourced from 2K DIs. HDR and the larger color gamuts are where the UHD formats shine.

It's not entirely about needing 4K, but I want 4K! I'm paying a premium for 4K discs to take advantage of HDR and Atmos, so I at least want the projector to display all of those beautiful pixels. Most disc reviews note a small but noticeable uptick in resolution, even when coming from a 2K DI. If JVC does release some native 4K projectors to compete with the Sony 285/385, I will be very interested. But if contrast suffers, and the 540 can be had for an even better price than they are now, I may just have to get shifty.

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post #2296 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I agree. People need to keep in mind that the JVC pricing dropped (5 and 6 series) over the last couple of years, since there were only small changes. So we could see the pricing going back up a little bit, since it looks like we are talking about completely new products.
Looking at it from the bottom though D-ILA pricing has been going up for years - used to be you could get into a DLA-X for much less than today with the X3/X30. I guess they've stuck the DLP units down there now; but they're not really the same kind of thing.

Ironically if they can get the yields good on a 4K panel, given that you can then drop the whole eShift mechanism and the electronics to drive it, plus the increased support costs from a more complex product, the 4K move could be cost neutral or a cost benefit. So I really do hope they've solved the issues with the contrast.

If they haven't got the contrast they're going to be into a price / feature battle against Sony.

I'll be really upset if they're only able to achieve contrast >20,000:1 with the use of DI as I can't stand the artifacts the current implementations introduce.
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post #2297 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
since you and kris sold the 4500's i'll assume something nice is on it's way, add me to the pre-order pls.
Ya, but I kept my RS4500, and Kris might get another one - hee hee !
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post #2298 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:25 PM
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2k€ sonys have some corner light uniformity issues if im understood corretly , does all current gen jvc have unified black across the viewable area ? how about the sony 3000 dollars + models ?

i got so good offer on the x5900 i would asume something big is coming in IFA
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post #2299 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:27 PM
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Here's what it looks like with source material. CIH 16:9/2.35:1 and large 16:9(Imax/VAR)

View full screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71GUtwl4xRk

Nice!


That looks very much like what I get with my 4 way masking "variable image size" set up.
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post #2300 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post
It's not entirely about needing 4K, but I want 4K! I'm paying a premium for 4K discs to take advantage of HDR and Atmos, so I at least want the projector to display all of those beautiful pixels. Most disc reviews note a small but noticeable uptick in resolution, even when coming from a 2K DI. If JVC does release some native 4K projectors to compete with the Sony 285/385, I will be very interested. But if contrast suffers, and the 540 can be had for an even better price than they are now, I may just have to get shifty.
I look at these new models in terms of what they offer as the sum of all parts. For example aside from resolution and contrast, everyone will benefit from more lumens for HDR so it will be interesting what these new models will be able to from a calibrated lumen output compared to the current models. A boost would be nice. Also, will they have improved internal tone mapping capabilities so that one doesn't have to rely on an outside source for it (such as the player, Arve curve, etc.) would also be interesting depending on how well it performs, but admittingly this is probably more difficult.
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post #2301 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post

If they haven't got the contrast they're going to be into a price / feature battle against Sony.
Worse they'll be battling themselves. I would put several bulbs in the RS520 before I'd take a step down in contrast/black floor. I'm pretty sure a fair amount of owners that would normally trade would be doing the same.
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Hopefully this will change soon.

The funny thing is that most of the studios have been shooting 4k or 5k for quite awhile now. The issue has been that it is downsampled to 2k for most digital processing and archival. Then the original 4k or 5k master was destroyed. There were many many titles that could have been scanned from 4k masters but were lost due to the decision to archive at 2k.

Alex Lindsay of Pixel Corps, has been saying that it will change very soon as most digital and computer graphics companies are upgrading equipment to handle 4k master processing.

Most of Sony's 4K titles are true 4k. 20th Century Fox and Warner Bros, not so much. Most 4k titles are really 2K.
Yes we will get there eventually but I don't think it will be as fast as the hard core enthusiast wants the transition to happen. Look at the recent Disney Avengers movie. A movie that was going to be a surefire hit and generate significant revenue for the studio was still only shot at 2.8K and then the final DI was only 2K. Really if it wasn't for the HDR and Atmos(albeit a lackluster effort) you could make the arguement to stick with Blu-ray over UHD disc. There just isn't a lot of financial incentive to fully transition to 4K yet.

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This is the thing I don't get about the JVC 4k native contrast conundrum; If they've really "solved" the native contrast 4K issues, then where does that leave the Z1? About to get a high contrast replacement?
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post #2304 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post
It's not entirely about needing 4K, but I want 4K! I'm paying a premium for 4K discs to take advantage of HDR and Atmos, so I at least want the projector to display all of those beautiful pixels. Most disc reviews note a small but noticeable uptick in resolution, even when coming from a 2K DI. If JVC does release some native 4K projectors to compete with the Sony 285/385, I will be very interested. But if contrast suffers, and the 540 can be had for an even better price than they are now, I may just have to get shifty.
It's the HDR that accounts for the improvement. Unless these reviewers are pixel peeping frames I take what they say comparing BD to UHD with a grain of salt. There's just not enough of a jump comparing a 2K DI source on BD and UHD.
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post
It's not entirely about needing 4K, but I want 4K! I'm paying a premium for 4K discs to take advantage of HDR and Atmos, so I at least want the projector to display all of those beautiful pixels. Most disc reviews note a small but noticeable uptick in resolution, even when coming from a 2K DI.
A UHD disc made from a 2K master will, on top of having HDR and 10-bit (even 12-bit) colour and P3 gamut at least, it will also have 4:4:4 at 2K resolution (so full chroma res at 1080p meaning only upscaling the luma channel while maintaining the chroma channel, possibly), which should be at least a little bit of of an improvement in terms of real pixel data over a regular Blu-ray.
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post #2306 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 01:44 PM
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This is the thing I don't get about the JVC 4k native contrast conundrum; If they've really "solved" the native contrast 4K issues, then where does that leave the Z1? About to get a high contrast replacement?
That would be the logical next step. The Z1 with updates has very good contrast, a lens without peer and a lot of light output. If they have refined the panel, no reason not to just stick it in the same chassis and continue to sell it with little other change. Just add 50 to the model number or whatever. It still will have features the lesser models don't to justify it's pricing. Even if you stick a laser in the RS6xx replacement it still won't have that lens. And the lens alone will justify the premium for those in the market (and with good reason).
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post #2307 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 01:46 PM
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This is the thing I don't get about the JVC 4k native contrast conundrum; If they've really "solved" the native contrast 4K issues, then where does that leave the Z1? About to get a high contrast replacement?
Good point. Upgraded model or phased out until a laser model can exceed the speculated units? When was the 4500/Z1 introduced 2016 or 2017?

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post #2308 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 02:36 PM
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That would be the logical next step. The Z1 with updates has very good contrast, a lens without peer and a lot of light output. If they have refined the panel, no reason not to just stick it in the same chassis and continue to sell it with little other change. Just add 50 to the model number or whatever. It still will have features the lesser models don't to justify it's pricing. Even if you stick a laser in the RS6xx replacement it still won't have that lens. And the lens alone will justify the premium for those in the market (and with good reason).
Even after owning an RS600, I have no complaints regarding my RS4500. The picture is stellar. Contrast is plenty good, and brightness - I've never had a projector this bright and it stays bright. At 918 hours now, it's still just as bright as day one. I like that !
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post #2309 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 02:48 PM
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Yea I said this before, the one thing that would get me excited about a new model would be a big bump in brightness while maintaining at least similar contrast. That's really the one place I feel my 540 is still lacking. I'm using my HP screen for that reason, but I'd really like to go back to my original 126" screen. Oh and also I would like to do that in a lower power mode to keep the noise down. I can do all of this with the HP screen, but it's only 106".
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post #2310 of 3111 Old 08-15-2018, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Yea I said this before, the one thing that would get me excited about a new model would be a big bump in brightness while maintaining at least similar contrast. That's really the one place I feel my 540 is still lacking. I'm using my HP screen for that reason, but I'd really like to go back to my original 126" screen. Oh and also I would like to do that in a lower power mode to keep the noise down. I can do all of this with the HP screen, but it's only 106".
You feel the 540 is lacking in brightness on a 126" screen?

Seems like that should be very good lumen output, that should be a light cannon with a fairly short to medium throw. (At least compared to nearly everything else in the price range)
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