NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 108 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3211 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
Using emotionally loaded words much?

"lazy", "whine"

People get older. What once was trivial/easy becomes more difficult.

People with physical disabilities also might like their movies.

Independence from how often they must ask for help is also valuable for many people.

...It would be easy to go on.

Emotionally loaded words? I call them adjectives, but ok.


If it's that big of a deal, mount it on a shelf. Sheesh.

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #3212 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:31 PM
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Moved from Chi-Town area down south to the Knoxville (that's TN-USA for you "foreigners" ) and just now coming up for AIR! I'm still theaterless at this point but a work in progress (hope to be done by Winter).

Thx to everyone for the well wishes (including the PM's!). Nice to be "home" again ("home" defined as a Vortex wallet sucking cavern of indecision & uncertainty!)!

So... am I correct in seeing on the sell-sheets (or not seeing I should say!), the new 4K line has dropped 3D support?? I have soooo much invested (including our level of enjoyment), it'd be a serious consideration/hesitation for me (maybe selling the RS500 at a major loss to get the new RS540 and keeping 3D is my better path at this point).

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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hi Kevin, nice to see you here!

No the 3D is still here in the new models, it's on the specs sheets, same emitter/glasses, no worries!

3D is alive and well Kev - the reports of it's death have been greatly exaggerated ...




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post #3213 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Can’t you get a Panny 820 to do this? Though you can’t route the Apple 4k via it. Or do you mean you wish it was onboard the projector for streaming sources?
I currently have my DirectV (HD - Only) going to the input of my OPPO which is a wired cable. I ran the fiber cable to the PJ from the Apple 4K and may have to reverse that to use the OPPO 203 for Tone Mapping it. Boy am I glad I got the OPPO before it's price went crazy. Another great recommendation from John Schuerman who sold me my RS-640. He gave me some guides he got from Kris on how to use the OPPO for this. I just need to take some time to do it.
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post #3214 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
100% agree..

Its one of the most noticeable improvements i noticed going from my X9500/X9900 to the Z1/RS4500.

A good friend noticed the same thing going from his X9500 to the Sony 760ES...

I would find it hard to go back to a Bulb based PJ.

JVC are onto a winner with the NX9..BUT when they release ( and they will! ) the NX9 "with" Laser they will have hit a "Home Run" !
It will be a RS4600K
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post #3215 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:35 PM
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post #3216 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hi Kevin, nice to see you here!

No the 3D is still here in the new models, it's on the specs sheets, same emitter/glasses, no worries!
Oh awesome (I was sent the main sheet but it wasn't till I went on the website under 'Specs..." did I see any mention of "3D")!




Thx Manni (good to be back... I think!)

(I need to have a sideline convo w/ you about upgrading from the 7200WA to 8500H like I heard/read you did??)
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post #3217 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
As I've said above, it's not the cost of lamps that bothers me, but the decay in the brightness and calibration of lamp pj's. I would be happy with a 12 ft wide (my current HP screen) Samsung OLED 'wall' if it were feasible. Lacking that, the RS4500 is at present the best alternative to a super large screen tv.
Yup, I get it. But in the thread someone mentioned that with age the imager ALSO loses contrast and brightness. I would assume similar technology is used for the imager in the 4500.
I have not heard anything about the Samsung wall since CES. Did it ever see the light of day as a related product?
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post #3218 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
Maybe, maybe not.

But I'm not sure that is what he really wanted to ask / the true intent of his question.

I think his question is "Will the tone mapping built into the JVC be good enough that I might as well sell the Lumagen?"

Since that would allow him to throw those dollars 'retrieved' from the Lumagen into paying for / justifying the new projector.

However, the Lumagen does much more, is capable of much more, than just tone mapping. E.g., it almost certainly has better upscaling performance than the JVC would.

So it gets down to "Sell it, or not, based on whether or not in your judgement it would still be providing sufficient advantages across to board to justify keeping it.".

Sorry, no "easy button" answers to be had in this game.
Nailed it! Thanks.
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post #3219 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:43 PM
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@krichter1 Glad you're back on here Kev...the king of memes So, which unit ya gettin'?
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post #3220 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Good enough is relative to the user. If you are asking me, no, the JVC tone mapping will not be particularly good by my standards. I would not personally use it. Its no different to what it is now, it will just adjust a little each time a movie is played. The lumagen is a far more powerful tone mapping solution.
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
I can easily agree with all that.

IMO, for anyone who actually uses all that a Lumagen can do, selling it would inevitably, eventually, result in regret.

I found an earlier generation Lumagen near invaluable with my RS35. It was really a necessary accessory to bring out all that that year's JVC was capable of. However, with the upgrade to the RS640 I did not feel compelled to shell out the bucks for a 4k capable new generation Lumagen unit. Yes, I could benefit from one - just past my personal point of diminishing returns for cost vs. performance gain.

But then again, I'm completely comfortable starting with your curves (thank you), tweaking them as needed for my projector/screen/room, and also having/using the panoply of instruments and software for final cal.
Thanks for your inputs. Helps me make the decision.
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post #3221 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:51 PM
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IMO there are many reasons why the laser is superior. Not in the least the quality of the light source, it's more stable/steady making for a much more pleasant viewing experience.
Lets be real though, most of us want laser, but the cheapest laser native 4k projector is not 'cheap'. Even Sony has lamps in the lower tier models. So realistically, if they want masses to buy these things, right now laser was probably too expensive to implement in tandem with 4K Chips. I see the economical reason for that.

Laser for the masses with 4k chips seems like something we need to wait just a little longer for, another generation or two it sounds like. I dont see Sony releasing laser projectors from the base model up for a good few years yet. It would be nice if the NX9 had it, but you can bet your nuts it would have cost a whole lot more than $18kUSD. Just look at what Sony is trying to charge for the 995ES with its lens, a whole $10,000 more for most of the same specs just just a laser added. I am actually really happy they went for the lens from the Z1 in the NX9, its clearly produced an earthquake in terms of image possible from the price point. I guarantee you Sony has stood up straight when they saw that thing.

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post #3222 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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3D is alive and well Kev - the reports of it's death have been greatly exaggerated ...
I should have figured as much Jas when I didn't read anything from you earlier in this thread (you would gone balistic I'd imagine!). Thx!
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post #3223 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
100% agree..

Its one of the most noticeable improvements i noticed going from my X9500/X9900 to the Z1/RS4500.

A good friend noticed the same thing going from his X9500 to the Sony 760ES...

I would find it hard to go back to a Bulb based PJ.

JVC are onto a winner with the NX9..BUT when they release ( and they will! ) the NX9 "with" Laser they will have hit a "Home Run" !
I think the winner part of the NX9 is its price point and lens honestly. Not so much in Australia maybe, remains to be seen, but that thing is priced to kill the competition in the US and the EU.

9 out of 10 people wont know what light source they are looking at when they demo one.

Let me ask you this, would you rather lose the lens you have, or the light source you have with the Z1?

I know precisely which aspect you have been talking up to me every time we talk

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post #3224 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post

Let me ask you this, would you rather lose the lens you have, or the light source you have with the Z1?

)
I am "Greedy! , i want both!!!
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Also, the contrast figures on my Sony are better than those 10k by a rather large margin, I understand that my unit may not be representative as it is a golden sample, still I don't think all VW885s perform at 10k either.
I didn't think you had any meters, how do you know? In any case though I'd expect it to be a good one if it really was the best out of 6!
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post #3226 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 03:59 PM
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Not so much in Australia maybe, remains to be seen

)
We shall see.....fingers crossed!
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post #3227 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:01 PM
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Thanks, so if I get RS3000, is there any advantage to still retaining the lumagen? Is tone mapping better on the lumagen compared to the one in JVC? Any other reasons to hold on to the lumagen if we go the RX3000 route?
Lumagen provides the most precise and best tone mapping at the moment especially along with 3D Lut calibrated. I.e. it's the best solution for HDR content. Custom curve tools is an option as well. I guess JVC tone mapping feature just give you an option to enjoy watching HDR out of the box as to a normal everyday user, so you don't need to learn about custom curves or Lut calibration in order to enjoy it.

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post #3228 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:03 PM
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The DI isn't working because this is a prototype. It's not a 100% finished projector..
I have a different theory; because they're using a large screen the DI being enabled at the shows would show too much pumping as they're at iris almost wide open. So they disabled it for the show to avoid that
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post #3229 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by laguna_b View Post
If you buy the PJ now, and set it somewhere to watch, your room will never happen since watching the PJ is 98% of what the room will provide only 2% I got my 640 4 months ago been watching it since and finally got it mounted some place other than on the shipping box last week.
LOL. I know! I bought my RS-500 3 almost three years ago. I set it up occationally and viewed on a large white wall. My dedicated theater is coming along and should be done this winter, finally!
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post #3230 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:18 PM
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I have a different theory; because they're using a large screen the DI being enabled at the shows would show too much pumping as they're at iris almost wide open. So they disabled it for the show to avoid that
The other scenario is the dynamic iris kills ANSI contrast, if JVC wants to showcase the improved ANSI contrast it may best to disable the dynamic iris.
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post #3231 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:28 PM
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I didn't think you had any meters, how do you know? In any case though I'd expect it to be a good one if it really was the best out of 6!
It was measured before I received it.
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
Lumagen provides the most precise and best tone mapping at the moment especially along with 3D Lut calibrated. I.e. it's the best solution for HDR content. Custom curve tools is an option as well. I guess JVC tone mapping feature just give you an option to enjoy watching HDR out of the box as to a normal everyday user, so you don't need to learn about custom curves or Lut calibration in order to enjoy it.

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In terms of tone mapping where do you rank the Lumagen, JVCs new mapping, Panasonic 820, and any others? Same question to Javs.
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post #3233 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I think the winner part of the NX9 is its price point and lens honestly. Not so much in Australia maybe, remains to be seen, but that thing is priced to kill the competition in the US and the EU.

9 out of 10 people wont know what light source they are looking at when they demo one.

Let me ask you this, would you rather lose the lens you have, or the light source you have with the Z1?

I know precisely which aspect you have been talking up to me every time we talk
In the US absolutely, in the EU I'm not so sure. The VW760ES is right under it, with some advantages of it's own.

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post #3234 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:43 PM
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In terms of tone mapping where do you rank the Lumagen, JVCs new mapping, Panasonic 820, and any others? Same question to Javs.
If you have powerfully HTPC, it will
MadVR as it uses all the potential of your GPU, which can be the top GPU also it can be Lut calibrated and etc
If non pc it's
1. Lumagen
2. Custom curves uploading
3. Penny oppo and JVC would place at the same line as pretty much they are doing the same job


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post #3235 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:48 PM
 
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The other scenario is the dynamic iris kills ANSI contrast, if JVC wants to showcase the improved ANSI contrast it may best to disable the dynamic iris.
Would your theory carry over to running manual iris on an eshift jvc? I ask because there is just something different about running x990 with the iris off.
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post #3236 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 04:51 PM
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Would your theory carry over to running manual iris on an eshift jvc? I ask because there is just something different about running x990 with the iris off.
Yes. That model is not only dynamically changing the iris aperture, it is also dynamically playing some games with gamma, at least, as it does that.

== edit
Best example/proof of that is where someone has posted clips demonstrating problems with "The Greatest Showman" on one particular scene.
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post #3237 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 05:02 PM
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It will be a RS4600K
One day for sure......

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Oh awesome
Yes, I am glad as well, way to many 3D fans out there. I think 3D will stay on the projectors for some time to come, as long as they keep the 3D in movie theaters.
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post #3238 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 05:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
Yes. That model is not only dynamically changing the iris aperture, it is also dynamically playing some games with gamma, at least, as it does that.

== edit
Best example/proof of that is where someone has posted clips demonstrating problems with "The Greatest Showman" on one particular scene.
Gamma processing under DI has definitely improved since the early Sony DI days, but I have noticed some highlight compression when going from a low APL scene to textured highlights in a high APL scene. I was seeing it when using the x990 as a reference monitor during video editing, so i started running manual iris and problems solved. The bonus, general movie watching took on a different feeling as well. The x990 has enough inherent native contrast, i really don't miss the DI.
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post #3239 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
If you have powerfully HTPC, it will
MadVR as it uses all the potential of your GPU, which can be the top GPU also it can be Lut calibrated and etc
If non pc it's
1. Lumagen
2. Custom curves uploading
3. Penny oppo and JVC would place at the same line as pretty much they are doing the same job


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People speak about tone mapping in the OPPO (which have). I had gotten some earlier tips on how to optimize which I have not yet tried. But my question is: With out having made ANY setting changes to my OPPO, am I getting any tone mapping benefit? Is this just something it does? I am still digging into the new world of a zillion standards and choices.... the world of CRT projectors basically had gamma, contrast and brightness

Past: CRTs NEC/Runco, Barco 1208, 1209 Current: JVC RS-640, Stewart Cima Neve 123" Screen 92" Da-Lite
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post #3240 of 13653 Old 09-08-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Gamma processing under DI has definitely improved since the early Sony DI days, but I have noticed some highlight compression when going from a low APL scene to textured highlights in a high APL scene. I was seeing it when using the x990 as a reference monitor during video editing, so i started running manual iris and problems solved. The bonus, general movie watching took on a different feeling as well. The x990 has enough inherent native contrast, i really don't miss the DI.
Hmmm, I've not bothered with doing any such content watching testing to see which I prefer. Reckon I really need to give it a go in order to really know what I prefer.

I just assumed it was a 'good' and kept on enjoying the fade to blacks.

But, it sounds like what you are telling me is that what I really want is laser dimming.
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