NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 219 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6541 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:23 PM
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No they are on the next boat. Here is a picture of them on their way.
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post #6542 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:24 PM
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post #6543 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:33 PM
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It occurs to me as I ponder my purchase that because of the significant lumen increase of the NX5 over my X500. I would, in fact, be getting a contrast increase despite having 40,000:1 native each. Mainly, because with my X500 I cannot close the iris at all without going too dim for my taste, the NX5 has more wiggle room. So it would be a contrast increase, right? If I go 790 I get so much more contrast, but true 4K and a higher quality lens are important to me.

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post #6544 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
It occurs to me as I ponder my purchase that because of the significant lumen increase of the NX5 over my X500. I would, in fact, be getting a contrast increase despite having 40,000:1 native each. Mainly, because with my X500 I cannot close the iris at all without going too dim for my taste, the NX5 has more wiggle room. So it would be a contrast increase, right? If I go 790 I get so much more contrast, but true 4K and a higher quality lens are important to me.
NX5...blacks might subjectively look blacker, but the X500 is spec'ed at higher contrast.
NX7...should have better contrast.

This is fun talking about this stuff, really. So here goes, I think either the NX5 or NX7 will be overall better than the X500.
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post #6545 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
It occurs to me as I ponder my purchase that because of the significant lumen increase of the NX5 over my X500. I would, in fact, be getting a contrast increase despite having 40,000:1 native each. Mainly, because with my X500 I cannot close the iris at all without going too dim for my taste, the NX5 has more wiggle room. So it would be a contrast increase, right? If I go 790 I get so much more contrast, but true 4K and a higher quality lens are important to me.
Correct, you will be closing the iris down more on the X790 or RS1000, than you are with the X500.
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post #6546 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:45 PM
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JVC Australia stock comes by Air, so thats why I am still relatively hopefull we will get it in very early November until I hear directly from JVC otherwise...

It's state of the art shipping for your stuff, huh?
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post #6547 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:47 PM
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Looks like got messed up again!!

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post #6548 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post

Sony projectors have had massive panel degradation in low/no use. JVC has no known issues in this regard. I know where my old RS20 is at and it's still in use today. My x500r is at a friend's doing great. These things seem to last forever [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Thanks! That helps ease my mind. Does anyone have a general idea on the distance from the back edge of the Cheif ceiling mount to the front of the projector? I’ve got about a 3 ft section in my ceiling that’s been reinforced and am wondering, if I install the mount as far back as possible, where that leaves the lense.
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post #6549 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 06:51 PM
 
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Will any units require a JVC pit stop for software tweaks before leaving JVC California ?

It sounds like units will be fully prepped prior to shipping.
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post #6550 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 07:00 PM
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Sony projectors have had massive panel degradation in low/no use. JVC has no known issues in this regard. I know where my old RS20 is at and it's still in use today. My x500r is at a friend's doing great. These things seem to last forever
Yep. That's the main reason I went with JVC this time. My Sony VW40 and current HW40ES suffered of panel degradation with just 200 hours of use in a 3 years period. The VW40 was used for 200 hours without any issues, boxed it for 1 year due to overseas moving. Unboxed it and panel degradation was there.
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post #6551 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
NX5...blacks might subjectively look blacker, but the X500 is spec'ed at higher contrast.
NX7...should have better contrast.

This is fun talking about this stuff, really. So here goes, I think either the NX5 or NX7 will be overall better than the X500.
I should hope so lol, that would not be good.lol I am fighting between the N5 and 790, the N7 is too much. That "might subjectively look blacker might just be enough when you add everything else. However the 130,000:1 of the 790 would be something in my velvet pit.

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post #6552 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 07:24 PM
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Mad Max has a MaxCLL of 9,900 nits, so actually, I believe the image on the right is the JVC since it would likely be tone mapping expecting 10,000 nit peaks. Even if the JVC was doing 4000nit tone mapping, which I dont believe it is, because MacCLL is far higher, then the image on the right will still be the JVC, since a 1000 nit clipping curve on a Sony or any other projector vs 4000 or 10,000 nit will be far, far brighter than the other in every way, but obviously clipping hard when highlights are on the screen.

Now I think both images are where the image is not quite correct, because Mad Max happens to be one of those titles which not only has 4000 nits real peaks, more than once, it also has a stray pixel that blows trhough 4000 all the way up to 10,000 which throws off any tone mapping algorithm which looks at metadata. Does the JVC fall back to 4000 nits here? Not sure, will need to test.

In any case, I am fairly certain the image on the right is the JVC, and the image on the left is far from optimal. The optimal image would be somwhere inbetween obviously.

Not a good title to test auto tone mapping honestly.
Not many solutions that use metadata for tone mapping.

For this title specifically, the Lumagen will do an average between the two (MaxCLL and MaxDML) to achieve its peak for the tone map. For the Panasonic 820, it will use MaxDML if the MaxCLL is higher. If I had to chose how to handle it in this situation, I would chose the Panny.
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post #6553 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 07:54 PM
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Not many solutions that use metadata for tone mapping.

For this title specifically, the Lumagen will do an average between the two (MaxCLL and MaxDML) to achieve its peak for the tone map. For the Panasonic 820, it will use MaxDML if the MaxCLL is higher. If I had to chose how to handle it in this situation, I would chose the Panny.
What do you mean not many solutions use metadata? You just named two solutions that use metadata for tone mapping.

They have to look at metadata and possibly also measure for themselves if they are to adapt to content on a film by film, which the new JVC's do, or scene by scene basis, right? We need to test which takes precedence on the new models which I am very eager to do. I am just observing that, in either case, if the JVC is tone mapping for 4000 nits, or 10,000, then its going to be the darker of those two photos shown, hence the Sony is the bright one for sure. And in fact, this is not a good film to test metadata based Tone Mapping IMO since its pretty all over the place.

The old tone mapping of JVC, Sony, most UHD TV's are just using a standard one solution tone map curve and you use contrast slider to clip.

What does the 820 do with the Masciola Suite? It has content at 10,000 nits, yet its metadata states Max CLL is 1000.

Interestingly, here are three cases where Mad Max absolutely blows through 4000 nits.

The problem is though, these will be so fast that dynamic tone mapping probably wont be able to actually adjust quick enough to these instances. Still interesting though.

4300 nits.



7400 Nits



9200 Nits


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post #6554 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
However the 130,000:1 of the 790 would be something in my velvet pit.

If that's what you're after right now, you can grab one of the many X990s/RS640s for sale for a steal from those selling to upgrade. The caveat is that after you get one those 990s, you may crave other elements...sharpness. Enter the NX5, NX7, NX9. The dark grass isn't really greener on the other side; it'll just look sharper from where you'll be standing.
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post #6556 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 08:13 PM
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Just got off the phone with JVC. So latest is 3000 a few days before the end of the month, to get to the US. Then have to make it through customs and then ship to JVC's distributor and then to dealers. The 1000 and 2000, end of the month to hit US shore, then has to go through customs and to JVC's distributor, then ship to dealers. So if all goes well, looking at customers receiving mid November. Hopefully no holdup with customs.
Mike - Am I reading this correctly that now it looks like the RS3000 will only be a few days ahead of the 1000/2000, and in general you anticipate all pre-ordered units being in customers hands around the middle of the month (regardless of 1000/2000 vs 3000)? I think for a while they were expecting the 3000 to arrive a couple weeks ahead, but sounds like now its all roughly together?
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post #6557 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 09:07 PM
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Mike - Am I reading this correctly that now it looks like the RS3000 will only be a few days ahead of the 1000/2000, and in general you anticipate all pre-ordered units being in customers hands around the middle of the month (regardless of 1000/2000 vs 3000)? I think for a while they were expecting the 3000 to arrive a couple weeks ahead, but sounds like now its all roughly together?
It all depends on how long it takes to get through customs. If it goes through quickly, then mid November. If customs drags their feet, it could be a week or two later. The 1000 and 2000's will be a few days behind the 3000.
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post #6558 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 09:31 PM
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If that's still the case with US deliveries, I'd surmise excess demand between the US and Europe has done us no favors and de-prioritised our market this time around frustratingly I under there are actually some 'not for sale' demo units coming here shortly which would be an indicator that they will be production models.
Well, everything could change a week from now.
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post #6559 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 09:53 PM
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I should hope so lol, that would not be good.lol I am fighting between the N5 and 790, the N7 is too much. That "might subjectively look blacker might just be enough when you add everything else. However the 130,000:1 of the 790 would be something in my velvet pit.
I think it's a tough decision between the N7 and the x790. I'd rather have an x790 than an N5.
What is your primary usage? Games? Movies? TV? 4k bluray?
What is your room situation? Fully light controlled?
What is your screen size and aspect, your viewing distance from the screen?
If you watch HDR content, from where? Panasonic 820? Streaming? Other player?

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9200 Nits
wow that's about as shiny and chrome as it get..

one of my favorite movies in recent years
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post #6561 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 11:32 PM
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wow that's about as shiny and chrome as it get..

one of my favorite movies in recent years
Yeah I watched it in full again just the other day..

Honoured to know a bunch of people that worked on that movie. Pretty much a full on Aussie production crew.

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post #6562 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
What do you mean not many solutions use metadata? You just named two solutions that use metadata for tone mapping.

They have to look at metadata and possibly also measure for themselves if they are to adapt to content on a film by film, or scene by scene basis which the new JVC's do, right? We need to test which takes precedence on the new models which I am very eager to do. I am just observing that, in either case, if the JVC is tone mapping for 4000 nits, or 10,000, then its going to be the darker of those two photos shown, hence the Sony is the bright one for sure. And in fact, this is not a good film to test metadata based Tone Mapping IMO since its pretty all over the place.

The old tone mapping of JVC, Sony, most UHD TV's are just using a standard one solution tone map curve and you use contrast slider to clip.
It has been confirmed that the new JVCs do NOT do scene by scene analysis. It's auto-tonemapping (it reads the metadata for the whole title, adjust the curve once based on this, so a different curve is selected automatically for each title), not dynamic tonemapping like MadVR. It's very similar to what we've been doing with the Vertex, except it might have more than three different curves and might be able to handle more specific situations. I was also disappointed to read that it's not using custom curves but individual dark/skin tone/bright gamma settings, which is less accurate than custom curves. On the other hand, it might make it possible for them to steer away from BT2390 and for example bump the low end when needed/necessary. So I'm really waiting to see the result before I make an opinion on what they are doing.

I think you have been mislead (like many) by the animation showing the gamma settings moving for different shots in their demo material. This is not real-time footage, it's an animation created by JVC to show what their auto tonemapping does for different titles. It doesn't show what it is doing for different scenes in the same title.

At least that's my understanding at this stage, based on the answers I asked and what some early reviewers confirmed.

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post #6563 of 13653 Old 10-12-2018, 11:57 PM
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It has been confirmed that the new JVCs do NOT do scene by scene analysis. It's auto-tonemapping (it reads the metadata for the whole title, adjust the curve once based on this, so a different curve is selected automatically for each title), not dynamic metadata like MadVR. It's very similar to what we've been doing with the Vertex, except it might have more than three different curves and might be able to handle more specific situations. I was also disappointed to read that it's not using custom curves but individual dark/skin tone/bright gamma settings, which is less accurate than custom curves. On the other hand, it might make it possible for them to steer away from BT2390 and for example bump the low end when needed/necessary. So I'm really waiting to see the result before I make an opinion on what they are doing.

I think you have been mislead (like many) by the animation showing the gamma settings moving for different shots in their demo material. This is not real-time footage, it's an animation created by JVC to show what their auto tonemapping does for different titles. It doesn't show what it is doing for different scenes in the same title.

At least that's my understanding at this stage, based on the answers I asked and what some early reviewers confirmed.
You're right, that's a huge typo. I meant to say film by film.
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post #6564 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:08 AM
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You're right, that's a huge typo. I meant to say film by film.
Well, I did a huge one too in my reply you quoted, I said "dynamic metadata like MadVR" instead of "dynamic tonemapping like MadVR".

I'm leaving my reply as it might still clarify things for others.

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post #6565 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:43 AM
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Still camera so you still need to see live but the nx5 kicks 570 easy the 570 behaves like the 270 but a bit better contrast then 270.

Picture clearer better black and you see all detail on the nx5 .

Still HDR so yes nx5 on left but you see 60% more stuff on it with auto tone map.

P.s I can't express the important to see live because you can't catch it's performance with this.

It's like when people record their speakers and put on YouTube and someone listen to there laptop speakers and make an assumption on the recorded speakers.

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post #6566 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:52 AM
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JVC Australia stock comes by Air, so thats why I am still relatively hopefull we will get it in very early November until I hear directly from JVC otherwise...
I did hear directly from JVC yesterday, which is why I posted about it this morning. To reiterate what I was told, JVC are only getting two demo units in next few weeks and do not now anticipate any stock to arrive till late November or even into Early Dec.

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Well, everything could change a week from now.
Ok good to know Craig, I still made note of what the current US undertandings are on your first shipments to my JVC Aus contact today as well. Let’s hope You guys don’t to cop any delays to these exciting new units either
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post #6567 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:36 AM
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I did hear directly from JVC yesterday, which is why I posted about it this morning. To reiterate what I was told, JVC are only getting two demo units in next few weeks and do not now anticipate any stock to arrive till late November or even into Early Dec.



Ok good to know Craig, I still made note of what the current US undertandings are on your first shipments to my JVC Aus contact today as well. Let’s hope You guys don’t to cop any delays to these exciting new units either
JVC already has two demo units, so I guess you are saying they are getting two more.?

They had been testing an N5 and NX9 at a post house in Sydney over the past week or two.

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post #6568 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:40 AM
 
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JVC already has two demo units, so I guess you are saying they are getting two more.?

They had been testing an N5 and NX9 at a post house in Sydney over the past week or two.
Was it Mint?
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post #6569 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:41 AM
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Was it Mint?
Not sure the name.

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post #6570 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 03:56 AM
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JVC already has two demo units, so I guess you are saying they are getting two more.?

They had been testing an N5 and NX9 at a post house in Sydney over the past week or two.
Ok that’s interesting. Kind of odd really given my JVC contact is at the top of the pro division and said to me only yesterday in regards to the two not for sale units they were quote getting shortly were for testing by a few local post houses? I find it really odd that he’d misstate that if they’d actually already arrived and were in the hands of those prod houses
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