NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 221 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6601 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
From my understanding resolution is the least important and trumped by contrast and color.
That is 100% correct........
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post #6602 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 09:56 AM
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That is 100% correct........
What is your opinion on the NX7 vs the X990r?
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post #6603 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I posted this earlier.

Also:

One of the memories can be selected to activate the 12V trigger: With a Motorized Sled for an Anamorphic Compression lens you could set a memory to zoom to screen width, engage Anamorphic mode, do the pixel adjust for that size, and then activate the 12V trigger to move the lens into place.
{bold added in quote by me}

Are we sure about this one...I asked JVC about this particular function while at CEDIA (since the first two D-ILA projectors actually had a remote function for 12v trigger independent of the anamorphic mode but was changed in later models). I asked them if there was a way to activate the 12v trigger with either a remote button or remote code and they said that it was not possible....that 12v trigger was ONLY possible when the anamorphic mode was activated and turned off when that mode was turned off.
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post #6604 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:22 AM
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Guys do we know yet if the new models support 1080p 120hz, this is important for pc gaming.

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post #6605 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
It is more than that. The problem we have right now is that more than 90% of the UHD titles on the market report a MaxCLL of 1000 (Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, Universal) and that is it. So even a player that reads the metadata is still just tone mapping to 1000 nits, but the content could be anything, including much lower or much higher. So ultimately you are at the mercy of a generic set of values. Warner and Sony consistently have different metadata, but they also consistently have wacky numbers with MaxCLL values that exceed their MaxDML, which really doesn't make any sense if it was authored properly. And even if it was right, you are now tone mapping to a value that could literally be a single pixel that was super bright over an entire movie that was dark. So that one pixel made the rest of the movie look dark and dull.

Frame by frame allows you to ignore the metadata completely and adjust how the overall APL of the image is handled throughout the movie so that you are maximizing the content to the display constantly. This should make a REALLY big difference with content that has massive changes in APL throughout the movie (lots of dark scenes and lots of bright scenes). This is why Dolby Vision is the most ideal solution (on top of 12 bit) out there. It tells the display what to do with EVERY frame, so no guess work is needed. Some people say HDR10 is good enough but that is because they have no frame of reference. Good enough is always good enough until you see better. And the only way to actually compare something like HDR10 and Dolby Vision is with two identically calibrated displays that have the same content playing side by side in real time with one using HDR10 and one using DV. And what you'd want to do is use highly variable content, so you see how well it handles vastly different APLs. You'd also want to test discs that have wacky HDR10 metadata because then you'd see what limitations that imposes on the display that uses HDR10 compared to DV.

Sicario is a perfect example. That is a movie with 0 for MaxCLL and 4000 for MaxDML. Just watch the opening sequence after the short title piece. If the display is using 4000 for its tone map, it looks muddy and flat. The real MaxCLL is about 1150 on this title. So if you can tone map to that, it looks VASTLY different with a lot of image pop and depth. I would love to compare this same sequence with three displays really. One that uses the metadata (4000), one that defaults to 1000 (closer to true MaxCLL) and one that is frame by frame (as we don't know if this opening sequence has anything remotely close to 1100 in it, so it may benefit even more from frame by frame.

While most say this and that is good enough, the truth is there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to HDR tone mapping. We've gotten great results with the different options on the market today, but that doesn't mean we have reached a point of diminishing returns. People just assume they're watching something that can't get much better, but then they see better. It happens all the time.
I really want to try MADVR but the limiting factor for me is the entire process of ripping and storing UHD somewhere to use it. I would need to find a drive that rips, hope the keys are available, rip it, store it, configure madvr (which is ever evolving right now).

I was hoping the auto tone mapping would be good on the projectors, but based on what you are saying about the metadata not being correct on a lot of discs, then I don't see how it could be good.....but then again most people seem happy with the Panasonic and its doing it based on metadata as well. Perfect solution would be an external box to do this that doesn't cost 5000+ dollars like the Lumagen. I don't see MADVR moving to an external box when I read the thread it requires a lot of power on a HTPC.
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post #6606 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
I really want to try MADVR but the limiting factor for me is the entire process of ripping and storing UHD somewhere to use it. I would need to find a drive that rips, hope the keys are available, rip it, store it, configure madvr (which is ever evolving right now).

I was hoping the auto tone mapping would be good on the projectors, but based on what you are saying about the metadata not being correct on a lot of discs, then I don't see how it could be good.....but then again most people seem happy with the Panasonic and its doing it based on metadata as well. Perfect solution would be an external box to do this that doesn't cost 5000+ dollars like the Lumagen. I don't see MADVR moving to an external box when I read the thread it requires a lot of power on a HTPC.
u owe it to yourself to try MADVR if u have a good enough HTPC, the quality u get from tone mapping to upscaling to all the customization etc.. is outstanding.

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post #6607 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:41 AM
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u owe it to yourself to try MADVR if u have a good enough HTPC, the quality u get from tone mapping to upscaling to all the customization etc.. is outstanding.
Yeah I might cave ,but to even try it I will have to track down and buy a drive that can rip UHD (I already have a drive but its not on the compatibility list). My main issue being when I watch movies, I want to sit down and watch it, not get into the black hole of constantly tweaking, or have PC issues that always seem to pop up.
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post #6608 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:42 AM
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Spinn,



Enough already. No one has any idea. Read through the 790/990 threads and this thread. The information is there; all the rest is strictly pure conjecture/speculation. No one is going to be able to make a 100% accurate recommendation until these are in the public's hands. Even then there is a lot more to recommendations that just statistics. Price point, use, etc all play a role in purchase decisions.

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #6609 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
I really want to try MADVR but the limiting factor for me is the entire process of ripping and storing UHD somewhere to use it. I would need to find a drive that rips, hope the keys are available, rip it, store it, configure madvr (which is ever evolving right now).
See this post from Makemkv about what drives to use. (there is a link in there as well of lots of useful info.)

https://makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16883

And as far as setting things up with MadVR, I think Javs has a link in his signature for his settings.

You may also need a new video card that can handle H.265 decoding _ like the NVIDIA 1000 series or better.

EDIT: Here's the Javs link, you don't even have to know what you're doing really, just copy his settings in the screen shots.
Be sure and read what he says under the screen shots.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post49913417

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post #6610 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 11:05 AM
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I am reviewing the NX9/3000. I think Tom may be doing the N7, but not 100% sure.

I've never had to worry about pissing off advertisers, I don't sell ads or make any money off them. I get paid the same for a review if I like a product or hate it. The only product I've reviewed recently that I thought was in bad shape was the BenQ 9050. It had A LOT of issues.
I'm looking forward to seeing this review. Great review on the UB820 in the latest Sound and Vision issue by the way !
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post #6611 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
I really want to try MADVR but the limiting factor for me is the entire process of ripping and storing UHD somewhere to use it. I would need to find a drive that rips, hope the keys are available, rip it, store it, configure madvr (which is ever evolving right now).

I was hoping the auto tone mapping would be good on the projectors, but based on what you are saying about the metadata not being correct on a lot of discs, then I don't see how it could be good.....but then again most people seem happy with the Panasonic and its doing it based on metadata as well. Perfect solution would be an external box to do this that doesn't cost 5000+ dollars like the Lumagen. I don't see MADVR moving to an external box when I read the thread it requires a lot of power on a HTPC.
I wouldn't worry about it too much until we see how these perform. They looked fine at the show and others who have had an opportunity to look at them in action have been very impressed. There is always something that does something a little better, and we'll get there at some point. Worse case scenario you could get a 820 to couple with it and enjoy.
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post #6612 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post
Spinn,



Enough already. No one has any idea. Read through the 790/990 threads and this thread. The information is there; all the rest is strictly pure conjecture/speculation. No one is going to be able to make a 100% accurate recommendation until these are in the public's hands. Even then there is a lot more to recommendations that just statistics. Price point, use, etc all play a role in purchase decisions. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Enough already? Stop being a troll.
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post #6613 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:11 PM
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Enough already? Stop being a troll.

This coming from the guy with a 200 post count; where most of them are asking the same question over and over again.


Why don't you try doing some research for yourself for a change, instead of asking redundant questions.

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #6614 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
{bold added in quote by me}

Are we sure about this one...I asked JVC about this particular function while at CEDIA (since the first two D-ILA projectors actually had a remote function for 12v trigger independent of the anamorphic mode but was changed in later models). I asked them if there was a way to activate the 12v trigger with either a remote button or remote code and they said that it was not possible....that 12v trigger was ONLY possible when the anamorphic mode was activated and turned off when that mode was turned off.
At CEDIA, JVC had had limited time with the new projectors. My info came from JVC earlier this week. Also, your info is not correct. Even with the current model, you can set the 12 volt trigger for use, outside of anamorphic use. I have an exhaust fan that is triggered by a 12 volt relay. I have it connected to my 12 volt trigger on my RS640. It is set in the projector to activate the 12 volt trigger on power on.
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post #6615 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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Spin, it can be frustrating for folks who put time and effort into this thread to see the same questions asked over and over..especially when the info is pretty easy to find. For example, your first question I answered was around contrast of these new projectors versus the eshift projectors. The answer is right on the JVC website (and on this thread multiple times), did you even try looking it up?

That being said, we are all HT hobbyist so lets stay on the same team. We are having first world problems here.
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post #6616 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:37 PM
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At CEDIA, JVC had had limited time with the new projectors. My info came from JVC earlier this week.
Sweet!!! I have been bugging them with that feature (or remote code) request for like 7+years...ever since I got my RS46.
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post #6617 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:42 PM
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I have an exhaust fan that is triggered by a 12 volt relay. I have it connected to my 12 volt trigger on my RS640. It is set in the projector to activate the 12 volt trigger on power on.
Power on is not the same as a separate remote code like in the old models. The old models you could activate (turn on/off) the 12-v at any time by simply calling that remote code. Now I can't remember if the actual remote control had the button but it was definitely a remote code for it. I had it programmed to one of my old universal remotes.
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post #6618 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much until we see how these perform. They looked fine at the show and others who have had an opportunity to look at them in action have been very impressed. There is always something that does something a little better, and we'll get there at some point. Worse case scenario you could get a 820 to couple with it and enjoy.
Well if you can just set it to a #, like 1200 nits, then it would work on most titles. As I'm sure you know, a lot of us are just running Javs 1200 nit curve 90+% of the time. I've experimented with others, but just end up back there. If JVC had shipped the RS4/5/6 series with something like that, everyone would have probably been pretty happy with them right out of the box.
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post #6619 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Also, your info is not correct. Even with the current model, you can set the 12 volt trigger for use, outside of anamorphic use. I have an exhaust fan that is triggered by a 12 volt relay. I have it connected to my 12 volt trigger on my RS640. It is set in the projector to activate the 12 volt trigger on power on.
I just checked and it looks like that Installation option was added to the RS4500 as well. The RS640 only has two options while the RS4500 has three. So maybe they decided to make that third option a standard on all new models as well.
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post #6620 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
What is your opinion on the NX7 vs the X990r?
On paper I'd say the 640/990/9900 would walk away from the n5, will be better than the n7 and maybe better than the nx9 on contrast performance. But i agree seeing the new units is required to confirm.

Regarding color performance, it's not clear if the expanded gamut is something that will really jump out at you on the new units, but it will be a nice upgrade .

Regarding resolution, the nx9 is assuredly going to be the champion. The n5/n7 will have to prove the updated lens fares better than the last generation. I'm not clear if the updated lens is actually better than a good sample on the last generation projectors, or if the updated less will benefit from better QC, with good lenses ending up in all n5/n7 projectors. I'd love to know where those new lenses that fail the QC test end up.

At the end of the day, for me, enhanced resolution and modest gamut expansion is not enough for me to abandon my excellent 990. I also want superior contrast performance, so I'm willing to wait for the total package.

Will I be suffering from this choice? It sure doesn't feel like suffering, but if it is, I'd wish all poor choices resulted in such consequences.
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post #6621 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Well if you can just set it to a #, like 1200 nits, then it would work on most titles. As I'm sure you know, a lot of us are just running Javs 1200 nit curve 90+% of the time. I've experimented with others, but just end up back there. If JVC had shipped the RS4/5/6 series with something like that, everyone would have probably been pretty happy with them right out of the box.
Again, that is oversimplifying it a bit. A tone map not only has to take into account the range of the signal you're watching (which changes with each title) but also the display brightness of that particular setup. Again, we've got solutions that work pretty well, and there is no reason you can't use the same custom curve you're using now if you wish, but JVC couldn't have just uploaded a single custom curve and said this should work for everyone since it wouldn't. There is a reason guys like Javs and Manni are excited about what MadVR is bringing them. If it didn't deliver even better results I doubt they would be taking the time. The more you actually understand HDR, the more you'll realize how much more potential for improvement there still is with playback on projectors with proper tone mapping.
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post #6622 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

At the end of the day, for me, enhanced resolution and modest gamut expansion is not enough for me to abandon my excellent 990. I also want superior contrast performance, so I'm willing to wait for the total package.

Will I be suffering from this choice? It sure doesn't feel like suffering, but if it is, I'd wish all poor choices resulted in such consequences.

Byte man, I'm in the same boat. I sold my 990 waiting for the new series and after looking through the specs; I decided the cost increase didn't warrant the performance difference (on paper) so I grabbed another leftover 990.

If the 820 wasn't in the chain, the decision would have been a little different; but with the ability to map through the player, I didn't feel I was really giving up much with the outgoing model and I don't have to worry about my A lens not working.

If the 2000 proves to be everything and a bag of chips; I will sell the 990 and upgrade. I'd love the 3000; but putting kids through college takes precedence over a marginal increase in resolution.

The purpose of listening shouldn't be to respond as much as it should be to understand.
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post #6623 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:13 PM
 
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Byte man... If the 2000 proves to be everything and a bag of chips; I will sell the 990 and upgrade. I'd love the 3000; but putting kids through college takes precedence over a marginal increase in resolution.
Yeah, even with an outstanding discount on a nx9, i also have more pressing ways to spend the $$$.

I figure the new mouse and wheel Chad will be installing in my 990, will make waiting even easier. T minus 15 days and counting.
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post #6624 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:26 PM
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Byte man, I'm in the same boat. I sold my 990 waiting for the new series and after looking through the specs; I decided the cost increase didn't warrant the performance difference (on paper) so I grabbed another leftover 990.

If the 820 wasn't in the chain, the decision would have been a little different; but with the ability to map through the player, I didn't feel I was really giving up much with the outgoing model and I don't have to worry about my A lens not working.

If the 2000 proves to be everything and a bag of chips; I will sell the 990 and upgrade. I'd love the 3000; but putting kids through college takes precedence over a marginal increase in resolution.

Hey, quit taking my excuse...I am in the exact same boat. Ordered the RS 2000 but the RS 3000 sounds like the shiznit. I have one in college and one a year away. Hard for dad (and mom) to go spending money on luxury items when that money could go towards college savings. More first world problems.
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post #6625 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:37 PM
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More first world problems.

LOL, right?



My first projector was a Panny AE700 and I was like a pig in crap. I'm pretty sure this "dinosaur" 990 won't cause me to gouge my eyes out due to being forced to watch it's mediocre picture for another year.
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post #6626 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:57 PM
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The n5/n7 will have to prove the updated lens fares better than the last generation. I'm not clear if the updated lens is actually better than a good sample on the last generation projectors, or if the updated less will benefit from better QC, with good lenses ending up in all n5/n7 projectors. I'd love to know where those new lenses that fail the QC test end up.
Did anyone every pin down whether the new lenses, in the NX5/NX7, are manufactured by a different entity than that which manufactured the last series lens?
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post #6627 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 01:59 PM
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What is your opinion on the NX7 vs the X990r?
If anyone answers that saying for sure, I am not sure what to say about that as no one has tested a NX7 yet....Sure you can speculate all day long if you like, but to say something with certainty on an Item never seen, that's just not the right thing to do as this is a lot of "your" $$$$
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post #6628 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I wasn’t thinking of colour corruption, but the degradation of the contrast due the the black being washed out by the reflection.
Okay, now I understand we're talking about the same thing. Someone suggested a 1.3 gain for HDR. I like the idea but I'm concerned about the intensified light bouncing off the room. If I went that way I'd have to go with a darker room.

Does the "Half-Gain Angle" affect light?

ck
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post #6629 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Power on is not the same as a separate remote code like in the old models. The old models you could activate (turn on/off) the 12-v at any time by simply calling that remote code. Now I can't remember if the actual remote control had the button but it was definitely a remote code for it. I had it programmed to one of my old universal remotes.
No, it is not. I was just showing that it was not tied strictly to the anamorphic modes. but it still may not do what you want and the info you quoted is correct. it is just not saying, what you think it is saying. Note in the post you quoted, it was listed using an anamorphic lens along with the 12 volt trigger.
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post #6630 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Yeah I might cave ,but to even try it I will have to track down and buy a drive that can rip UHD (I already have a drive but its not on the compatibility list). My main issue being when I watch movies, I want to sit down and watch it, not get into the black hole of constantly tweaking, or have PC issues that always seem to pop up.
Order this drive: LG WH16NS40

You can then downgrade the fw to the correct version and rip your discs to your hearts content.

I've been ripping all of mine over the past year or so without any issue. The few times that AnyDVD or MakeMKV didn't have the correct key - an update took care of that (they do that automatically now).

But I agree, using an HTPC can be problematic. I've been using one for almost two decades. Disable windows updates (hard to do on Win10) - uninstall all unnecessary software get it all working and only update drivers, MadVR, LAV and other components when absolutely necessary are some of the steps to take. Lastly, make an image of the working stable setup.

Using players are far easier - but bug fixes are far and few between and component compatibility issues are very difficult to resolve.

JVC 4910, Marantz 7010 AVR, HTPC MPC-HC/MPC-BE x64; MadVR/LAV

Last edited by nightfly85; 10-13-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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