NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 223 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6661 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 06:20 PM
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What to do with the empty space behind the couch? Move 2nd row of seating closer or build a snack chest:
Thats a great idea
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post #6662 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 06:30 PM
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I'm guessing these are standard issue at Markmon1's house for movie night:



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post #6663 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 07:23 PM
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Tsk Tsk Tsk...!
You guys need to take your snack food to a new plane of existence, like some caramelized home made pineapple ice-cream, or some hand made raspberry chocolate truffles.


Or if that's too much bother, find some organic pop corn made in a hot air popper topped with organic butter !
There's no substitute for organic butter !

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post #6664 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
What to do with the empty space behind the couch? Move 2nd row of seating closer or build a snack chest:
You will be better off by using that empty space for very nearfield subs
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post #6665 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
Thanks for the info. My dilemma is that I need to make a decision soon as to which way to go.

1. For content I’d say 20% games 50% TV/Netflix, 30% movies on Apple TV

2. The screen will be 115” and we will sit 14’ back.
Your screen is too small and you are too far back to benefit from native 4K even for games. I'd just scratch native 4k as a feature off the list entirely.

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Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
3. Stream HDR from Netflix and Apple TV movies only.
There is no tone mapping here on any of this stuff. HDR will be too dark on an x990 unless you get custom curves and are ok with switching them per hdr source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
4. Room is completely light controlled although we watch a lot of sports with the lights on and will be using an ALR screen.

5. I’m only between the 990 and NX7. Leaning towards the 990 only because I know it’s such a good projector. Thoughts based on my responses?
I think in your case, I'd recommend you get an NX5. While 4K is not a factor, the HDR tone mapping is. Your screen is a black diamond 2 and you watch with lights on a lot so the benefits of the 990 in contrast is negated. The benefits of the NX7 contrast is probably minimal compared to the NX5 in your situation, again due to the screen and ambient light watching. The black diamond 2 screen is not the greatest fit in your case, but it's what you have, in my opinion. It's probably great for sports. The double gain / alr of the black diamond does some odd things to blacks in pure light controlled room. They sort of shine and are a little raised and deep at same time. I don't think the added contrast of the NX7 over the NX5 will be realized on your screen.

The 990 is probably out for you in my opinion due to being married to apple tv and using streaming for HDR and apple tv for movies, you need some tone mapping.

You can make due with a 990, but not sure what the price is compared to NX5 for you. The tone mapping is the main reason I suggest this. So in summary:

* 4K irrelevant for your seating distance / screen size
* You need tone mapping for your HDR sources
* You probably won't benefit hugely from higher contrast due to ambient light and black diamond screen is both gain and ALR and does some odd stuff to blacks anyway.

NX7 is fine as it has the tone mapping. NX5 in your case may be just as good so may as well save the money and go there.

If you're willing to replace your screen with a net gain 1.0 screen you may get better movie experience and benefit more from NX7 over NX5, but the day time sports watching will be less impressive. Although, low light in my room (over head lights on but dimmed) for superbowl looks "fine".

If you're willing to dump the apple tv, get a panasonic 820 and use its netflix app and tone map all netflix and move all movie watching to bluray disks where you can tone map, I'd say the 990 is better for you.

If you want to benefit from 4K, you'll need to move your seats up to about 7 feet from that smallish screen. The space in front of your main seating is probably just wasted space anyway. If you do that, then the gaming sharpness will greatly benefit from the NX5 or NX7.

This is just my opinion, but I'd go NX5 in your unique case and move the seating way up closer.

What to do with the empty space behind the couch? Move 2nd row of seating closer or build a snack chest:

You're a patient man Mark lol. If this doesn't put his 990 or NX5 repeated question to bed nothing will. 😉

I'll take the Dots please.

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post #6666 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
Thanks for the info. My dilemma is that I need to make a decision soon as to which way to go.

1. For content I’d say 20% games 50% TV/Netflix, 30% movies on Apple TV

2. The screen will be 115” and we will sit 14’ back.
Your screen is too small and you are too far back to benefit from native 4K even for games. I'd just scratch native 4k as a feature off the list entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
3. Stream HDR from Netflix and Apple TV movies only.
There is no tone mapping here on any of this stuff. HDR will be too dark on an x990 unless you get custom curves and are ok with switching them per hdr source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
4. Room is completely light controlled although we watch a lot of sports with the lights on and will be using an ALR screen.

5. I’m only between the 990 and NX7. Leaning towards the 990 only because I know it’s such a good projector. Thoughts based on my responses?
I think in your case, I'd recommend you get an NX5. While 4K is not a factor, the HDR tone mapping is. Your screen is a black diamond 2 and you watch with lights on a lot so the benefits of the 990 in contrast is negated. The benefits of the NX7 contrast is probably minimal compared to the NX5 in your situation, again due to the screen and ambient light watching. The black diamond 2 screen is not the greatest fit in your case, but it's what you have, in my opinion. It's probably great for sports. The double gain / alr of the black diamond does some odd things to blacks in pure light controlled room. They sort of shine and are a little raised and deep at same time. I don't think the added contrast of the NX7 over the NX5 will be realized on your screen.

The 990 is probably out for you in my opinion due to being married to apple tv and using streaming for HDR and apple tv for movies, you need some tone mapping.

You can make due with a 990, but not sure what the price is compared to NX5 for you. The tone mapping is the main reason I suggest this. So in summary:

* 4K irrelevant for your seating distance / screen size
* You need tone mapping for your HDR sources
* You probably won't benefit hugely from higher contrast due to ambient light and black diamond screen is both gain and ALR and does some odd stuff to blacks anyway.

NX7 is fine as it has the tone mapping. NX5 in your case may be just as good so may as well save the money and go there.

If you're willing to replace your screen with a net gain 1.0 screen you may get better movie experience and benefit more from NX7 over NX5, but the day time sports watching will be less impressive. Although, low light in my room (over head lights on but dimmed) for superbowl looks "fine".

If you're willing to dump the apple tv, get a panasonic 820 and use its netflix app and tone map all netflix and move all movie watching to bluray disks where you can tone map, I'd say the 990 is better for you.

If you want to benefit from 4K, you'll need to move your seats up to about 7 feet from that smallish screen. The space in front of your main seating is probably just wasted space anyway. If you do that, then the gaming sharpness will greatly benefit from the NX5 or NX7.

This is just my opinion, but I'd go NX5 in your unique case and move the seating way up closer.

What to do with the empty space behind the couch? Move 2nd row of seating closer or build a snack chest:

I have a blank slate. What would your ideal setup be? Remember we want to be able to watch sports with lights on as well as movies in the dark. What screen/projector combo would you recommend? What are your thoughts on the Wolf TXF-900?
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post #6667 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
Thanks for the info. My dilemma is that I need to make a decision soon as to which way to go.

1. For content I’d say 20% games 50% TV/Netflix, 30% movies on Apple TV

2. The screen will be 115” and we will sit 14’ back.
Your screen is too small and you are too far back to benefit from native 4K even for games. I'd just scratch native 4k as a feature off the list entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
3. Stream HDR from Netflix and Apple TV movies only.
There is no tone mapping here on any of this stuff. HDR will be too dark on an x990 unless you get custom curves and are ok with switching them per hdr source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
4. Room is completely light controlled although we watch a lot of sports with the lights on and will be using an ALR screen.

5. I’m only between the 990 and NX7. Leaning towards the 990 only because I know it’s such a good projector. Thoughts based on my responses?
I think in your case, I'd recommend you get an NX5. While 4K is not a factor, the HDR tone mapping is. Your screen is a black diamond 2 and you watch with lights on a lot so the benefits of the 990 in contrast is negated. The benefits of the NX7 contrast is probably minimal compared to the NX5 in your situation, again due to the screen and ambient light watching. The black diamond 2 screen is not the greatest fit in your case, but it's what you have, in my opinion. It's probably great for sports. The double gain / alr of the black diamond does some odd things to blacks in pure light controlled room. They sort of shine and are a little raised and deep at same time. I don't think the added contrast of the NX7 over the NX5 will be realized on your screen.

The 990 is probably out for you in my opinion due to being married to apple tv and using streaming for HDR and apple tv for movies, you need some tone mapping.

You can make due with a 990, but not sure what the price is compared to NX5 for you. The tone mapping is the main reason I suggest this. So in summary:

* 4K irrelevant for your seating distance / screen size
* You need tone mapping for your HDR sources
* You probably won't benefit hugely from higher contrast due to ambient light and black diamond screen is both gain and ALR and does some odd stuff to blacks anyway.

NX7 is fine as it has the tone mapping. NX5 in your case may be just as good so may as well save the money and go there.

If you're willing to replace your screen with a net gain 1.0 screen you may get better movie experience and benefit more from NX7 over NX5, but the day time sports watching will be less impressive. Although, low light in my room (over head lights on but dimmed) for superbowl looks "fine".

If you're willing to dump the apple tv, get a panasonic 820 and use its netflix app and tone map all netflix and move all movie watching to bluray disks where you can tone map, I'd say the 990 is better for you.

If you want to benefit from 4K, you'll need to move your seats up to about 7 feet from that smallish screen. The space in front of your main seating is probably just wasted space anyway. If you do that, then the gaming sharpness will greatly benefit from the NX5 or NX7.

This is just my opinion, but I'd go NX5 in your unique case and move the seating way up closer.

What to do with the empty space behind the couch? Move 2nd row of seating closer or build a snack chest:

You're a patient man Mark lol. If this doesn't put his 990 or NX5 repeated question to bed nothing will. 😉

I'll take the Dots please.
Isn’t that what the forum is for? To ask questions and learn? Does saying stuff like this make you feel good? Does this make up for the fact that you probably don’t have any friends?
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post #6668 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 08:52 PM
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Isn’t that what the forum is for? To ask questions and learn? Does saying stuff like this make you feel good? Does this make up for the fact that you probably don’t have any friends?
Yeah ‘bass addict’, why are you jumping on ‘spinn74’. I also have a blank slate and was wondering about the Wolf TXF-900. Either that or the BenQ 9050 that Kris mentioned. Which one do you think would be better for me?

Last edited by console; 10-13-2018 at 08:56 PM.
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post #6669 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 08:56 PM
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I have a blank slate. What would your ideal setup be? Remember we want to be able to watch sports with lights on as well as movies in the dark. What screen/projector combo would you recommend? What are your thoughts on the Wolf TXF-900?
Quote:
Originally Posted by console View Post
Yeah ‘bass addict’, why are you jumping on ‘spinn74’. I also have a blank slate and was wondering about the Wolf TXF-900. Either that or the BenQ that Kris mentioned. Which one do you think would be better for me?
I don't know much about the Wolf, but the TXF-900 looks to be not native 4K (it uses Gen4 V4K, its name for eshift type pixel shifting) and has half the contrast of an RS640. I think these retail around $10k and offer less than the RS540 that retails around $4k. Who knows maybe there's something else to them. It doesn't even advertise its native contrast so who knows how good that is. I couldnt imagine choosing a BenQ for a serious room...

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post #6670 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Kane View Post
Okay, now I understand we're talking about the same thing. Someone suggested a 1.3 gain for HDR. I like the idea but I'm concerned about the intensified light bouncing off the room. If I went that way I'd have to go with a darker room.

Does the "Half-Gain Angle" affect light?

ck
A 1.0 unity gain screen casts light 180 degrees, hitting the walls close to the screen. A 1.3 gain screen has a narrower viewing cone, so less light hits the walls.
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post #6671 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 09:32 PM
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Mike et al, any word from JVC about a fix for the 7% distortion with 16x9 content and a Paladin DCR lens on the new series?
No, nothing on this.
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post #6672 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I share Bytehoven's opinion but ordered an RS3000 to replace my RS640 anyway. My hope is that the black level won't be noticeably less as rumor is you need to be around double contrast to notice a difference and 100,000 is not half of 160,000. But who knows. I play a lot of games where 4K resolution is very noticeable. I use to have 2 projectors set up, an RS640 for tv/movies and a sony 675ES native 4K for games. I sold the 675Es to help fund the RS3000. If the RS3000 isn't better than the RS640 in tv/movies due to lack of contrast, I'll be selling it and keeping the RS640 and getting a cheap entry 4K projector for gaming in the meantime.

My thoughts in your case:
1) What type of content do you use on your projector.
- Games? Native 4K huge boost
- Movies/TV - not much benefit over eshift of x790/rs540

2) How far back do you sit?
- If you are more than 1 screen width from your screen don't bother with 4K you wont see the difference over eshifted pixels.
- Ideally you should be like .75 x screen width. I'm 8.5 feet from 135" screen. Even on that, eshift vs native 4k on movies is super hard to notice.

3) If you watch HDR content, from where?
- Streaming - the new projector tone mapping will be huge benefit.
- Bluray player panasonic 820 - the tone mapping can be done in player, not a benefit. If you dont have this player you can buy it.
- PC or "files on disk" - you can and should use something supporting MadVR so no benefit for tone mapping.

4) How light controlled is your room?
- Living room or "media room" - You wont benefit from the deep blacks of JVC any way so you probably cant tell difference in contrast.
- Complete light controlled room - you will benefit from the deep blacks of the best JVC models.

5) The RS3000 lens should be sharper in all content even at a little further seating distances.
- The improved lens has a way of just being sharper, its odd how it benefits all resolutions. People with an RS4500 can attest to this.
- The RS2000/RS1000 is basically sale lens as on RS540 but with better Q/C supposedly. Probably not massive difference.

Hope that all helps.

Personally, coming from an RS640, I would not consider an N5/RS1000 at 40,000:1. I would *maybe* consider an N7/RS2000, but I would not preorder it. I'd have to see it myself first. The NX9/RS3000 was the only one I consider could be a good all around upgrade without much/any sacrifice. Again on paper (but JVC isn't known for lying).

Remember, we don't know how these new models perform in the real world. But I suspect the black performance will be good. I had an x500r entry level projector and the black performance on that was quite good. I'm quite spoiled by my RS640 right now, the blacks are so awesome I enjoy watching end credits. RS3000 is going to have to be very close to not be sold off.

As a side note, the preorder discount is quite good. While site rules prevent stating it, I don't think I'll have a problem selling an RS3000 with 50 hours on bulb used and get my $$ back out should the new unit be disappointing. I think there's maybe 1 day left to grab the preorder discount on new models.
And 100,000:1 is more than half way to 160,000;1. On top of that, the difference gets smaller as you open the iris. I don't understand why people are looking at native contrast iris closed and make judgements off of that, when we know The delta decreases as the iris is opened up. Almost no one uses their projector with iris fully closed.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 10-13-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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post #6673 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 10:50 PM
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And 100,000:1 is more than half way to 160,000;1. On top of that, the difference gets smaller as you open the iris. I don't understand why people are looking at native contrast iris closed and make judgements off of that, when we know The delta decreases as the iris is opened up. Almost no one uses their projector with iris fully closed.
Excellent points. This is why I ordered an RS3000

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Originally Posted by spinn74 View Post
Thanks for the info. My dilemma is that I need to make a decision soon as to which way to go.

1. For content I’d say 20% games 50% TV/Netflix, 30% movies on Apple TV

2. The screen will be 115” and we will sit 14’ back.

3. Stream HDR from Netflix and Apple TV movies only.

4. Room is completely light controlled although we watch a lot of sports with the lights on and will be using an ALR screen.

5. I’m only between the 990 and NX7. Leaning towards the 990 only because I know it’s such a good projector. Thoughts based on my responses?
You did not mention budget. For projector, RS2000 or RS3000 paired with Stewart screen with HALR fabric. About the only ALR screen out there that does not have a lot of artifacts and is not below 1.0 gain.
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post #6675 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by console View Post
Yeah ‘bass addict’, why are you jumping on ‘spinn74’. I also have a blank slate and was wondering about the Wolf TXF-900. Either that or the BenQ 9050 that Kris mentioned. Which one do you think would be better for me?
You do realize Kris talked about the 9050 in a negative way and the contrast on the Wolf is not very good.
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post #6676 of 13653 Old 10-13-2018, 11:43 PM
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Guys do we know yet if the new models support 1080p 120hz, this is important for pc gaming.
OMG this is so unimportant for PC gaming. The new models are native 4K. The boost for native 4K in gaming is so huge its just completely silly to go with 1080p for any reason. PC gaming at 4k/60 with anti aliasing completely disabled because the pixels are so small will result in a jaw dropping image that you cannot get on any movie content. Gaming is the sole reason to go 4K in my opinion and without it, I'd just keep my RS640. Even the idea that someone thinks 1080p/120 is the way to go is crazy talk once you see 4k/60 on a huge screen in action. Again, only PC gaming lets you disable anti aliaising which boosts sharpness a ton as you dont need AA because at 4k there are no jaggies.
It might not be important for you and many others, but its really a preference thing, i really enjoy the smoothness of playing ganes at 144hz on my monitor, of course 4k will be sharper and looks better and if we can do 4k 120 that would be awsome but we r not there yet.
I dont want to talk about this in this thread cause its not the place for it, i just wanted to know if 1080p 120hz is possible with these units, many new projectors are having this feature and its nice to have for whoever prefer using it.

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post #6677 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 12:02 AM
 
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And 100,000:1 is more than half way to 160,000;1. On top of that, the difference gets smaller as you open the iris. I don't understand why people are looking at native contrast iris closed and make judgements off of that, when we know The delta decreases as the iris is opened up. Almost no one uses their projector with iris fully closed.
The native contrast is just a spec we might all hope provides a reference point.

If JVC has not changed the relative relationship between iris positions on the new and last generation projectors, any contrast advantage would apply regardless of the state of the iris. A 60% advantage with the iris closed, would be nearly proportionally similar with the iris open.

Of coarse if JVC has implemented a new DI system which prevents any comparison, that would be important info to consider.

It's sad to see the arguement being made how 100k vs 160k will be inconsequential. When JVC increases contrast on future generations of the new design, will that contrast increase also be inconsequential?

The delta between the 640/990 at 160k and the 20LTD at 200k, was even smaller, but was considered a substantial improvement.

If on off contrast matters to a projector owner, the last generation top tier units will have an advantage. Suggesting it won't matter is inconsistent with many years of JVC product marketing and ownership experience.
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Last edited by Bytehoven; 10-14-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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post #6678 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 12:43 AM
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Hi all, I finally pre-ordered an NX7, so I'm joining the JVC fraternity soon. I'm upgrading from an old Epson 6030UB -- already sold on Fleabay -- which was pretty good for 3D back in the day, but noisy and with mediocre contrast.

My family and I watch about 20% cable/HBO/etc, 40% Blu-rays, 15% Netflix/Amazon streaming, and 25% Xbox gaming. We already have a sizable collection of 4K/UHD discs in preparation for the move to 4K -- it will be nice to finally watch them in 4K.

The screen is an Elunevision Reference Studio 4K with 1.0 gain, 115" diagonal -- the largest size that can fit in our modest-sized HT room. We have two rows of Seatcraft Diamante home theater seats, with the front row 8 ft from the screen on a 5" riser, and the second row 13 ft away in the back on an 11" riser (technically it's all one riser with two levels). The room is fully light-controlled, with dark blue walls and the ceiling is dark flat gray, which was a compromise since the wife doesn't want a bat cave.

FWIW, speakers are 3 x JTR Noesis 228HT left/center/right, 4 x JTR Single 8HT-LP for sides/rears, and 2 x SVS SB16-Ultra subwoofers. Our HT is small enough that those really shake the walls, lol.

With all the above in mind, it seems like the NX7 is the "goldilocks" projector for us. We wanted something with better contrast than the NX5, but can't afford the NX9, so the choice was simple.

Now the wait begins!

BTW, does anyone have a recommendation regarding the best device for JVC's autocal calibration system? Was leaning toward the Spyder5 Pro. Very much looking forward to trying autocal -- it seems like one of the coolest features of the JVC projectors!

Last edited by Justin Morgan; 10-14-2018 at 12:57 AM.
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post #6679 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
The native contrast is just a spec we might all hope provides a reference point.

If JVC has not changed the relative relationship between iris positions on the new and last generation projectors, any contrast advantage would apply regardless of the state of the iris. A 60% advantage with the iris closed, would be nearly proportionally similar with the iris open.

Of coarse if JVC has implemented a new DI system which prevents any comparison, that would be important info to consider.

It's sad to see the arguement being made how 100k vs 160k will be inconsequential. When JVC increases contrast on future generations of the new design, will that contrast increase also be inconsequential?

The delta between the 640/990 at 160k and the 20LTD at 200k, was even smaller, but was considered a substantial improvement.

If on off contrast matters to a projector owner, the last generation top tier units will have an advantage. Suggesting it won't matter is inconsistent with many years of JVC product marketing and ownership experience.
Yea, I'm with you on all this. However, I suspect JVC did something new with the iris system otherwise I think the dynamic iris would have been working at CEDIA. Based on what that is, the difference might be hard to notice. And remember there's an increase in ANSI contrast. Who knows if that'll be worth anything. I'm hoping the whole package works together and makes me feel the blacks are very deep.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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How much are replacement bulbs for these projectors?
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A 1.0 unity gain screen casts light 180 degrees, hitting the walls close to the screen. A 1.3 gain screen has a narrower viewing cone, so less light hits the walls.
While that is useful for the side walls, the back wall must present more of an issue I guess with a >1.0 gain screen?
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post #6682 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 03:39 AM
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How much are replacement bulbs for these projectors?
If you buy from JVC, about $600. If you find a good source for loose bulbs made by the exact same manufacturer as the one that makes the bulbs for JVC, about $100-150. There are essentially 4 bulb manufacturers that make bulbs that would fit into the JVC housing and work. But, you'd want a Ushio NSHA250JK - must have JK on end.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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If you buy from JVC, about $600. If you find a good source for loose bulbs made by the exact same manufacturer as the one that makes the bulbs for JVC, about $100-150. There are essentially 4 bulb manufacturers that make bulbs that would fit into the JVC housing and work. But, you'd want a Ushio NSHA250JK - must have JK on end.
Great answer, thank you!!

I did a quick Google search and you are right -- most sellers have this bulb for about $150 or less. Not bad.

Thanks again
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post #6684 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

It's sad to see the arguement being made how 100k vs 160k will be inconsequential. When JVC increases contrast on future generations of the new design, will that contrast increase also be inconsequential?

The delta between the 640/990 at 160k and the 20LTD at 200k, was even smaller, but was considered a substantial improvement.

If on off contrast matters to a projector owner, the last generation top tier units will have an advantage. Suggesting it won't matter is inconsistent with many years of JVC product marketing and ownership experience.
@Bytehoven please dont take offence, BUT gee you are reminding me so much of how "myself" was somehow trying to justify my X9500 when the Z1/RS4500 first appeared.

The sole factor mentioned at the time was "contrast"..... "contrast" being the most important factor in image quality. I was myself guilty of preaching this fact on many occasions.

Once i owned the Z1/RS4500 i realised just how wrong i was in relation to "contrast' being the holy grail of image quality!

A factor too many times overlooked is the spec,d contrast of the projectors....which is with the iris fully closed down with basically unusable light output. Very few people could use this setting . Most "real world" viewing will require the iris to be opened far in excess of the fully closed position.....i think MANY users would be surprised to learn just what their actual contrast figures are in this situation.

I know for a fact that when i ran my X9500 and X9900 i was getting in the vicinity of 30,000:1 certainly NO way near the "160,00:1" as with the iris fully closed. ....
I actually just measured an X7500 in my room at the same throw as my Z1/RS4500 and it produced approx 20,000:1 ......again NO way near its 130,000 with the iris fully closed.

Contrast is certainly important, but it is certainly NOT the sole aspect for image quality there a MANY other aspects that combine to make a terrific image!

If the NEW JVC projectors produce and image even remotely close to the Z1/RS4500 ( and i am sure they will) then i honestly think your whole perception of what a good image is will change.

Last edited by woofer; 10-14-2018 at 05:18 AM.
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@Bytehoven please dont take offence, BUT gee you are reminding me so much of how "myself" was somehow trying to justify my X9500 when the Z1/RS4500 first appeared.

The sole factor mentioned at the time was "contrast"..... "contrast" being the most important factor in image quality. I was myself guilty of preaching this fact on many occasions.

Once i owned the Z1/RS4500 i realised just how wrong i was in relation to "contrast' being the holy grail of image quality!

A factor too many times overlooked is the spec,d contrast of the projectors....which is with the iris fully closed down with basically unusable light output. Very few people could use this setting . Most "real world" viewing will require the iris to be opened far in excess of the fully closed position.....i think MANY users would be surprised to learn just what their actual contrast figures are in this situation.

I know for a fact that when i ran my X9500 and X9900 i was getting in the vicinity of 30,000:1 certainly NO way near the "160,00:1" as with the iris fully closed. ....
I actually just measured an X7500 in my room at the same throw as my Z1/RS4500 and it produced approx 20,000:1 ......again NO way near its 130,000 with the iris fully closed.

Contrast is certainly important, but it is certainly NOT the sole aspect for image quality there a MANY other aspects that combine to make a terrific image!

If the NEW JVC projectors produce and image even remotely close to the Z1/RS4500 ( and i am sure they will) then i honestly think your whole perception of what a good image is will change.
I sure hope I agree with this next month when my RS3000 arrives. As I already attempted to "upgrade" to a sony 675ES, it only convinced me that contrast is the #1 most important factor. I couldn't live with the 675ES poor black levels. The RS4500 is in a separate class to a Sony 675ES. But I'm not sure that it's black levels are. RS4500 owners seem to think they are and I cant dispute it. My only reason for doubting this at all is that there are 760ES owners that think that machine has great black levels and it for sure doesn't. Anyways, back to the 675ES. Yes it had some strengths in sharpness and detail, which is why I kept it around for video games. But that was greatly shadowed by better contrast and colors on JVC RS640. Keep in mind that brighter images often look better and your RS4500 is far brighter than your 9500 or 9900 was right? The same won't be true for an RS2000 / RS3000 over an RS640.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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-----I know for a fact that when i ran my X9500 and X9900 i was getting in the vicinity of 30,000:1 certainly NO way near the "160,00:1" as with the iris fully closed. ....
I actually just measured an X7500 in my room at the same throw as my Z1/RS4500 and it produced approx 20,000:1 ......again NO way near its 130,000 with the iris fully closed.

Ok its taken me a few weeks to understand this whole contrast thing and the above statements pretty much sums it all up.. None of us are getting 160,000:1 what matters is where your iris is set at.. So if this is correct which i think it is then I have nothing to worry about with my new purchased N7 coming from an rs520..

I'm an armature when it comes to specs but the below statement if also true then I think I've hit a home run purchasing the N7.. The new projectors are supposed to have 50% more ANSI than the current projectors...

-----A very high On/Off rating does not means it also has very high ANSI contrast -- it might, but you don't know. You can have a projector with a low Full /On Off that has a very high ANSI reading and looks spectacular. Don't be surprised if you put Projector A rated at 50,000:1 up against Projector B at 500,000:1, and discover that Projector A looks much higher in contrast. It happens all the time.
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post #6687 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 07:16 AM
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The native contrast is just a spec we might all hope provides a reference point.
I would not use it as a reference point, to many variables at play. If you, Chad B, Javs tested them all, I would believe you guys lol

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
If you buy from JVC, about $600. If you find a good source for loose bulbs made by the exact same manufacturer as the one that makes the bulbs for JVC, about $100-150. There are essentially 4 bulb manufacturers that make bulbs that would fit into the JVC housing and work. But, you'd want a Ushio NSHA250JK - must have JK on end.
I hear its a real lottery with in the after market bulb world, is it not?

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I did a quick Google search and you are right -- most sellers have this bulb for about $150 or less. Not bad.
For 25% of the cost, sure worth giving it a shot.
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post #6688 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 07:20 AM
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I hear its a real lottery with in the after market bulb world, is it not?

For 25% of the cost, sure worth giving it a shot.

As long as I bought a Ushio NSHA250JK, am I winning the lottery?
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post #6689 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
The native contrast is just a spec we might all hope provides a reference point.

If JVC has not changed the relative relationship between iris positions on the new and last generation projectors, any contrast advantage would apply regardless of the state of the iris. A 60% advantage with the iris closed, would be nearly proportionally similar with the iris open.

Of coarse if JVC has implemented a new DI system which prevents any comparison, that would be important info to consider.

It's sad to see the arguement being made how 100k vs 160k will be inconsequential. When JVC increases contrast on future generations of the new design, will that contrast increase also be inconsequential?

The delta between the 640/990 at 160k and the 20LTD at 200k, was even smaller, but was considered a substantial improvement.

If on off contrast matters to a projector owner, the last generation top tier units will have an advantage. Suggesting it won't matter is inconsistent with many years of JVC product marketing and ownership experience.
No it is not and my stance on this has not changed a single bit. For years I have stated you have to double the native contrast to see a noticeable difference. 60% is a long way from doubling. While as always, I welcome more contrast, just like I welcome more lumens, I am still going to saying the same thing I always have.

Apparently not. I don't think a single AVSF forum member purchased a 20LTD, even after they went on closeout below cost. What was so funny about this, many on here talked for years how they would pay extra for a truely top projector that was about as perfect as you could get for that price range. Kris Deering looked at one and said the 20LTD was what you would expect in a hand picked parts projector. JVC brought out what many said they wanted, but no one purchased.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 10-14-2018 at 08:08 AM.
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post #6690 of 13653 Old 10-14-2018, 08:21 AM
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JVC brought out what many said they wanted, but no one purchased.
I don't think anyone asked for it to look GAWD AWFUL.
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