NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 227 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6781 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
A-lens is expensive, but the cost of an A-lens can be spread out over a much larger lifetime than a projector. I have used my A-lens with five different projectors.
While true, it's still a sizeable investment for an enhancement for many. Not downplaying the benefits, just saying I can't envision ever deciding to spend $4-9K on a lens while so many other things need funds. I don't begrudge anyone that can. I just don't think it's a reality for many and lens memory with the every increasing lumen output trend will be "good enough".
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post #6782 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
While true, it's still a sizeable investment for an enhancement for many. Not downplaying the benefits, just saying I can't envision ever deciding to spend $4-9K on a lens while so many other things need funds. I don't begrudge anyone that can. I just don't think it's a reality for many and lens memory with the every increasing lumen output trend will be "good enough".
Not arguing that it is an expensive item. Not much in this hobby is cheap. Just stating that comparing the cost of an A-lens to the cost of one projector is not quite how you should look at it, since the A-lens can way outlast the projector. Not much to tear up on a fixed in place A-lens.
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post #6783 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
While true, it's still a sizeable investment for an enhancement for many. Not downplaying the benefits, just saying I can't envision ever deciding to spend $4-9K on a lens while so many other things need funds. I don't begrudge anyone that can. I just don't think it's a reality for many and lens memory with the every increasing lumen output trend will be "good enough".

I'd agree with this. I have been using an older Panamorph lens (little brother to DCR) with my past few projectors and really love it. This was the main deciding point for me not jumping on the new crop; as the lens won't work with the new recessed lenses on the 2000/3000. I couldn't justify buying a new projector and then having to fork out another 5k or so for a lens.



It's hard going back to zooming when you've been accustomed to the benefits of using an A lens for the past few years.



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post #6784 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
And I don't really care about the handful of titles that have shifting aspect ratios, I just crop them.

There has been a 4K Lumagen for some time now that works just fine, it is just price prohibitive for many.
What about streaming exclusive original 4K content from Netflix or Amazon? It's almost all 16x9. These days, there is more real 4K HDR (instead of upscaled 2K) on streaming than there is on discs.
Then there are 4K HDR video games - all 16x9.

Same argument goes in favor of a Lumagen or built-in JVC Auto Tone Mapping vs. something like madVR that can only handle PC video files.
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post #6785 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
What about streaming exclusive original 4K content from Netflix or Amazon? It's almost all 16x9. These days, there is more real 4K HDR (instead of upscaled 2K) on streaming than there is on discs.
Then there are 4K HDR video games - all 16x9.

Same argument goes in favor of a Lumagen or built-in JVC Auto Tone Mapping vs. something like madVR that can only handle PC video files.
That's why I think I am going to be doing a big old jumble of crap when it comes to tone mapping. My current plan now is, MadVR for UHD, JVC for Netflix, and JVC for gaming. I was researching gaming and I read somewhere that PS4 sends out a HDR signal but the metadata is empty, so not sure how that one is going to work. Just have to figure it out once I get my RS2000 like most home theater stuff.

I still think a boxed tone mapper on the output to the projector is the best solution, but its not looking like that will be an option outside the Lumagen.
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post #6786 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
No hesitation about how close the weight of the projector (44 lbs) comes to the weight limit of the mount (50 lbs)?


I know that 44 is less than 50, but I guess I'm looking for impressions from people about how close to rated weight capacities on mounts is acceptable. Having the RPA mount work is much preferable to me, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't want to come downstairs and see the projector laying on the floor...
I am sure that mount can hold more then that, I am sure that is not the max weight its just not recommended to be any more.....
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post #6787 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
What are the references of your screens? I don't like motorized screens because if they are not tensioned properly, the screen surface is not perfectly flat. Yours look fine. If a room is neither height nor width limited, this is a great solution.

Mine is both height and width limited (slanted ceiling in loft), so 16/9 is the best option, but I don't plan to stay in that room for ever...
They are both Stewart. They are both tensioned properly !
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post #6788 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
What about streaming exclusive original 4K content from Netflix or Amazon? It's almost all 16x9. These days, there is more real 4K HDR (instead of upscaled 2K) on streaming than there is on discs.
Then there are 4K HDR video games - all 16x9.

Same argument goes in favor of a Lumagen or built-in JVC Auto Tone Mapping vs. something like madVR that can only handle PC video files.
I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to titles with shifting aspect ratios, which is a VERY limited selection of content overall. If content is not 2.35, I can either zoom or scale so that the image is properly presented with my screen. I was only talking about cropping off the extra info if you're watching something that shifts between the two aspects, like The Dark Knight.

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post #6789 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Depends. Lens memories are better than ever, digital masking works well and we have much smaller pixel size. No one is going to argue that a lens doesn't enhance the experience with the extra brightness, but for someone like me that struggles to buy something like an NX7 the cost:beneit ratio will simply never be there until a quality lens hits a MUCH lower price point. And we know quality optics aren't likely to decrease in cost. I've seen more RS4xx and RS5xx in homes where $3K+ on a lens would likely be considered a major expenditure vs. homes where it wouldn't.

I'll be just as happy zooming with a replacement to my RS520 and I know what I will be missing by doing so. I do think you'll see the folks with more disposable income providing a bit of a resurgence over the next few years. But most of us on a budget will probably be sticking with lens memory unless someone makes a huge breakthrough with optics manufacturing.
Yes, they do cost a bit of money, but like Mike said, they can be used for many years, and many projectors. Anyway, you know how they say once you see something ( RBE on single chips, a spot on your screen etc. ) you can't un-see it ? It is the same with this lens. Once you see an extra 38% light, and 2.5+ million pixels, well, you can't un-see the improvement !

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post #6790 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Yes, they do cost a bit of money, but like Mike said, they can be used for many years, and many projectors. Anyway, you know how they say once you see something ( RBE on single chips, a spot on your screen etc. ) you can't un-see it ? It is the same with this lens. Once you see an extra 38% light, and 2.5+ million pixels, well, you can't un-see the improvement !
Not arguing that and I have seen a couple A-lenses in use. The reality of someone buying a $25k projector vs. someone that has to scrape up to buy $6K projector is simply different. A lens absolutely enhances the experience. But is it strictly necessary for me to enjoy my 130" scope screen? No. It wasn't on the RS46 and isn't on the RS520. Would I like one? Sure. But it's just not ever likely to make it to the top of the pile of things I could spend $9K on. No matter how many projectors it would last on.
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post #6791 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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Since these new bubs have a brand new light engine, lessons gleaned from the RS4500 fade to black etc could be applied. Why not utilise a lamp iris or similar method for improving black levels at the darker end. Perhaps not total fade to black, but close.

I guess we'll soon see....

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post #6792 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
No hesitation about how close the weight of the projector (44 lbs) comes to the weight limit of the mount (50 lbs)?


I know that 44 is less than 50, but I guess I'm looking for impressions from people about how close to rated weight capacities on mounts is acceptable. Having the RPA mount work is much preferable to me, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't want to come downstairs and see the projector laying on the floor...
The weak point is where/how you secure to the ceiling. 4 flange bolts is ok, but if you thru bolt the flange to a piece of 3/4" plywood, which you secure to the ceiling, it makes for a more stable setup.

I'd note I installed ceiling reinforcement during construction.

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post #6793 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:04 PM
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The weak point is where/how you secure to the ceiling. 4 flange bolts is ok, but if you thru bolt the flange to a piece of 3/4" plywood, which you secure to the ceiling, it makes for a more stable setup.
I don't believe the ceiling adapter is the issue. Chief rates the X shape part at 500lbs. The RPA (which attaches to the down pipe from the ceiling adapter) though is rated at just 50lbs, which the RS3000 gets right up against at 49lb and maybe exceeds it with the SLB plate. Then if you want to add a lens + mounting plate, that is another ~ 7lbs. The RPA, where the bolts hang, is pretty thin. I'd imagine the break rating is much higher than 50lbs, but these are expensive items to be playing around with!

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post #6794 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Not arguing that and I have seen a couple A-lenses in use. The reality of someone buying a $25k projector vs. someone that has to scrape up to buy $6K projector is simply different. A lens absolutely enhances the experience. But is it strictly necessary for me to enjoy my 130" scope screen? No. It wasn't on the RS46 and isn't on the RS520. Would I like one? Sure. But it's just not ever likely to make it to the top of the pile of things I could spend $9K on. No matter how many projectors it would last on.
$9K ? You're shopping at the wrong place.
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post #6795 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:10 PM
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$9K ? You're shopping at the wrong place.
LOL!!!! Even if you're patient on ebay you can find an ISCOIIIL in perfect shape for $2500-3000 with slider. Under that if you are super lucky like me.
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post #6796 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
I don't believe the ceiling adapter is the issue. Chief rates the X shape part at 500lbs. The RPA (which attaches to the down pipe from the ceiling adapter) though is rated at just 50lbs, which the RS3000 gets right up against at 49lb and maybe exceeds it with the SLB plate. Then if you want to add a lens + mounting plate, that is another ~ 7lbs. The RPA, where the bolts hang, is pretty thin. I'd imagine the break rating is much higher than 50lbs, but these are expensive items to be playing around with!
I have a Chief RPMAU that I plan on getting the adapter plate for, to mount my NX7. Are you saying that's a bad idea?
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post #6797 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
No hesitation about how close the weight of the projector (44 lbs) comes to the weight limit of the mount (50 lbs)?


I know that 44 is less than 50, but I guess I'm looking for impressions from people about how close to rated weight capacities on mounts is acceptable. Having the RPA mount work is much preferable to me, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't want to come downstairs and see the projector laying on the floor...
This would be my fear as well.

Can anyone chime in on how they're going to mount their NX5/7/9?

I have an RPMAU right now, which is the RPMA with universal bracket. I'll need to get the JVC adapter plate (thanks Mike! ), to go with it. But you all are scaring me there a bit. I think that means I have an RPM with the "A" lock/slot?

Especially if I'm running my dual JTR 2400ULFs in my room and shaking the entire northern state of Texas!
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post #6798 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:26 PM
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I have a Chief RPMAU that I plan on getting the adapter plate for, to mount my NX7. Are you saying that's a bad idea?
Get the plate ! They work better.

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post #6799 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:33 PM
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I have a Chief RPMAU that I plan on getting the adapter plate for, to mount my NX7. Are you saying that's a bad idea?
No, you'll be under the 50lb rating (43.5 for the projector, maybe 2lb for the plate). It's just the 48lb of the RS3000 + plate is close to the rating, but likely is under unless you also mount a lens directly to it.
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post #6800 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:39 PM
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If anyone is worried about being so close to 50 lbs with their Rs3000 i would be willing to send my future rs2000 in trade so you breath easy knowing your at a safe weight. Im doing this because im a nice guy.
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post #6801 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Fade to black is darker because of eye bias. That is why a fade to black looks completely black for a few moments. Even a bright low contrast projector can do this to a certain extent if the content biased your eyes enough to begin with. Typically the illusion is broken as soon as you move your eyes.
I use to think this, too but did some tests. I can take a fully white screen and hit hide and its nowhere near as dark as fade to black scene. If I hit hide, I can still make out the screen borders instantly. If I let a show do a fade to black I cannot make out the borders on my screen even looking all around but after about maybe 10 seconds I *kind of* can but even then its still hard. At least on my RS640, fade to black is significantly darker than hide button.

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post #6802 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
No hesitation about how close the weight of the projector (44 lbs) comes to the weight limit of the mount (50 lbs)?


I know that 44 is less than 50, but I guess I'm looking for impressions from people about how close to rated weight capacities on mounts is acceptable. Having the RPA mount work is much preferable to me, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't want to come downstairs and see the projector laying on the floor...
Those weight limits are funny. You could do pull ups on that mount without ripping it out of the ceiling.
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post #6803 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Two words - two screens ( I just couldn't resist ). I watch Dunkirk on my 16:9 screen - seems like 1/2 the movie or more was shot for IMAX. I watch Interstellar on my scope screen - there aren't enough IMAX scenes to care about. And with the new JVC's, they have the internal masking feature as mentioned, which works great ! But so does my DCR lens for scope !
If you get rid of all those curtains you can get that scope screen to fill your whole wall Whats going on here!?!

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post #6804 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Since these new bubs have a brand new light engine, lessons gleaned from the RS4500 fade to black etc could be applied. Why not utilise a lamp iris or similar method for improving black levels at the darker end. Perhaps not total fade to black, but close.

I guess we'll soon see....
The iris on my RS640 gets it so close to pure black I don't think any work needs to be done there. I can't see the edges of my screen or anything on a fade to black right now until about 10 seconds of pure black elapses. It's way different than hitting hide button, its way blacker. Hopefully the new series can get as close as that.

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post #6805 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 04:58 PM
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Can anyone chime in on how they're going to mount their NX5/7/9?

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post #6806 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post




That edge work is nice.
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post #6807 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
While true, it's still a sizeable investment for an enhancement for many. Not downplaying the benefits, just saying I can't envision ever deciding to spend $4-9K on a lens while so many other things need funds. I don't begrudge anyone that can. I just don't think it's a reality for many and lens memory with the every increasing lumen output trend will be "good enough".
Exactly. As nice as that lens was that I saw at the shootout, I just can't justify the cost at all. Reality is I'm working on a truck drivers salary and I can't buy every HT item I want.
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post #6808 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 05:17 PM
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Get the plate ! They work better.


Yuuuuup. Mike is gonna add one to my NX7 order.
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post #6809 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
No, you'll be under the 50lb rating (43.5 for the projector, maybe 2lb for the plate). It's just the 48lb of the RS3000 + plate is close to the rating, but likely is under unless you also mount a lens directly to it.


What’s the weak link there?
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post #6810 of 13653 Old 10-15-2018, 05:33 PM
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What’s the weak link there?
Make sure the ceiling plate is lag screwed to solid backing / blocking, and there really won't be a weak link. They probably underrate it.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
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