NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 235 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7021 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Thank you, this is helpful. May I ask what determines if I can run iris at -15? Distance, room conditions, light control?

My setup is in my mid-sized attic that doubles as my home office, I watch typically at night with lights off and minimal ambient light. My walls are white, but I can put black drapes all over my room. Distance from PJ mount to the screen is ~15 ft. My screen is 16:9 106 inch grey with 1.5 gain, which I am thinking of changing to a similar sized 4K screen with 1.0 gain (Elunevision Reference 4K screen ... cant afford pricier Stewarts unfortunately )

Knowing what we know from specs any thoughts / advice? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]

Thank you!
What fabric is in your screen? Gray based and an actual gain of 1.5?
It is an Elitescreen Cinegrey 5D ALR screen. I had bought it when I had planned to install the system in my living room with lots of windows and bright walls. Now I am regretting that decision as my setup is in a fairly dark dedicated room and being an ALR screen there is quite a bit of artifacts.

TBH I don't know if the screen has an actual gain of 1.5 that's what the manufacture claims.

https://m.elitescreens.com/images/do...erialSheet.pdf

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post #7022 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Thank you, this is helpful. May I ask what determines if I can run iris at -15? Distance, room conditions, light control?

My setup is in my mid-sized attic that doubles as my home office, I watch typically at night with lights off and minimal ambient light. My walls are white, but I can put black drapes all over my room. Distance from PJ mount to the screen is ~15 ft. My screen is 16:9 106 inch grey with 1.5 gain, which I am thinking of changing to a similar sized 4K screen with 1.0 gain (Elunevision Reference 4K screen ... cant afford pricier Stewarts unfortunately )

Knowing what we know from specs any thoughts / advice? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]

Thank you!
Its screen size mainly. Your screen is tiny compared to what most people run now, and has gain. the N5 will almost certainly be too bright for it; you will need the N7 as it can cut twice as much light; and you will gain something from contrast.

Understood. Thanks a bunch for the explanation.

😞 Yes my screen is tiny but that's the largest I can fit in my room.

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post #7023 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 07:19 PM
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Are you sure you have the correct MSRP @ CAD 7499.99? (I assume you're referring to an N5) - that would translate to USD 5,775 which would mean it would be cheaper for people in the US to buy from Canada?
Eastporters don't usually post their "good deal" prices on new items, you have to call to get a quote.
When ever I see them post a price on new stuff, it has always been the MSRP price, but maybe things have changed.
They have a price on the 295es Sony and I know that's MSRP.
You have to go to Amazon.ca or Best Buy to see it though.

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Only if shipping and duties were free...
If I were to import from Australia we would be charged the local taxes only. (7 and 5% Federal and Provincial)
There shouldn't be any duty on it because they're made in Japan and Canada doesn't manufacture projectors _ electronics in general.
However it wouldn't stop a courier service from charging duty.
They always seem to find a way to stick it to a person.

The shipping would cost a fortune, so any gains would soon go out the window.

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post #7024 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
It is an Elitescreen Cinegrey 5D ALR screen. I had bought it when I had planned to install the system in my living room with lots of windows and bright walls. Now I am regretting that decision as my setup is in a fairly dark dedicated room and being an ALR screen there is quite a bit of artifacts.

TBH I don't know if the screen has an actual gain of 1.5 that's what the manufacture claims.

https://m.elitescreens.com/images/do...erialSheet.pdf
1.5 gain is a BS number. The highest actual on axis gain of that material is 1.0. Drops off from there as you move more off axis. The entry level JVC's will work fine for you. Even if mounted at the short end of the throw, you would have around 21FL. A little high, but a few hours on the lamp would tone that down. Also increasing the throw, would reduce the brightness.
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post #7025 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 07:32 PM
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However it wouldn't stop a courier service from charging duty.
They always seem to find a way to stick it to a person.
Courier services cannot charge duty. They can only collect duty and sales tax on behalf of the government. They do charge a fairly hefty “customs clearance fee” but you can choose to do the paperwork yourself and avoid the fee.
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post #7026 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 09:48 PM
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Hi, can one of you experts please confirm my throw distance calculations are correct? I've pre-ordered an NX7. My screen is 115" Elunevision Reference 4K, 1.0 gain, 16:9.

According to the brochure linked in the first post, the minimum throw distance ("Wide") for a 110-inch 16:9 screen is 3.486 meters. For a 120" screen it's 3.807m. That means (3.486+3.807)/2 = 3.647m, or almost precisely 12 feet.

Just to be on the safe side I was planning to mount the projector 12' 6" from the screen.

Does that sound okay? Just wanted to make doubly sure, since it'll be a pain to fix it later if I'm wrong, and even NASA gets these conversion calculations wrong sometimes.

Thanks!

Last edited by Justin Morgan; 10-17-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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post #7027 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
It is an Elitescreen Cinegrey 5D ALR screen. I had bought it when I had planned to install the system in my living room with lots of windows and bright walls. Now I am regretting that decision as my setup is in a fairly dark dedicated room and being an ALR screen there is quite a bit of artifacts.

TBH I don't know if the screen has an actual gain of 1.5 that's what the manufacture claims.

https://m.elitescreens.com/images/do...erialSheet.pdf
1.5 gain is a BS number. The highest actual on axis gain of that material is 1.0. Drops off from there as you move more off axis. The entry level JVC's will work fine for you. Even if mounted at the short end of the throw, you would have around 21FL. A little high, but a few hours on the lamp would tone that down. Also increasing the throw, would reduce the brightness.
Thanks Mike ... You just saved me a couple of grands

During the brief time I had the x5900 I never felt that I had abundance of brightness so hoping NX5 will be fine.

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post #7028 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 11:29 PM
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Members I think it's a bit to much talk about prices around the globe of course it will differs I have 25% vat in my country and the dollar ****s everything up we have hade a really big price turn for almost all products, but this is a thread about the projectors not how currency market is or local tax/vat .

So we should focus more on the products.



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post #7029 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 11:44 PM
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Members I think it's a bit to much talk about prices around the globe of course it will differs I have 25% vat in my country and the dollar ****s everything up we have hade a really big price turn for almost all products, but this is a thread about the projectors not how currency market is or local tax/vat .

So we should focus more on the products.



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Sorry man have to pull you up there. After as many years here as I've had and discussing comparative pricing across our many territories, many of us have found it quite useful in general. I can even point to one example where I was instrumental in assisting a few US members parallel import the Sony VW70(80) model back about 10 years ago in order to take advantage of a significant price disparity between Aus and the US at the time on that model. That's just one example of the benefit in us comparing notes on pricing across territories. So I for one see no need to leave this out of the discussion any new globally available projector models...
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post #7030 of 13655 Old 10-17-2018, 11:53 PM
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The N7/RS2000 could finally make its appearance in 2 days in Italy-

https://www.thereviews.it/i-nuovi-pr...ity-a-bologna/
Frohlich and riddle like this.
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post #7031 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 02:11 AM
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This is interesting - I had a chance to A/B Sony 285 and JVC RS440 / 5900X at my local Magnolia Bestbuy. And I can say that JVC beat the Sony in terms of black-levels and contrast hands down. A/B was at 1080p source, so cant say much about sharpness or HDR, but JVC image seemed more real.

I ended up buying the 5900X, but returned it because the eShift noise was driving me nuts, and the new N5/7 were just around the corner. I am hoping N5 is more than a match for Sony 295, with the dynamic iris and historically better contrasts.
I think the N5 is going to destroy the Sony 695ES. Forget the 295ES.

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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I just hope this new 4K lineup doesn't go down as a lemon. The last time JVC released a new projector design in 2010, there were some definite issues. Lamps dying early (requiring 3 lamp revisions to resolve), front IR sensor boards dying because of backward capacitor, HDMI lock-ups, etc. I guess there are some risks to be an early adopter. At least this time they are recycling a proven lamp..
Well the lamp is the same lamp as the previous units since the RS400/500/600 was released so there shouldn't be an issue there. I don't think the HDMI chipset or IR chipsets have changed. The panels were used on RS4500, the rest are pretty familiar ground for JVC. I don't anticipate any real issues. This isn't their first projector. And it's not such a drastically changed part that anything is super new.

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Has anyone measured the actual height of the unit? I really dont want to re-frame my projector mount (I hate drywall work), and am within 1/4 of an inch based on the measurements provided by JVC.
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post
Glad to see I am not the only one struggling to fit this projector into a box one day! Seriously they are cutting it so close! Think I have 1/2" maybe. I have to take the vent cover off my projector box!
I think you guys will need more than 1/4 - 1/2" clearance. While JVC has ridiculous requirements listed like 8 inches from top and 12 inches on each side, I think you might want like 2" on top and at least 3-4 inches on each side. I redid my shelf mount to provide more space for my RS3000 on the way.

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Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post
Hi, can one of you experts please confirm my throw distance calculations are correct? I've pre-ordered an NX7. My screen is 115" Elunevision Reference 4K, 1.0 gain, 16:9.

According to the brochure linked in the first post, the minimum throw distance ("Wide") for a 110-inch 16:9 screen is 3.486 meters. For a 120" screen it's 3.807m. That means (3.486+3.807)/2 = 3.647m, or almost precisely 12 feet.
Looks right to me.
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post #7032 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post
Hi, can one of you experts please confirm my throw distance calculations are correct? I've pre-ordered an NX7. My screen is 115" Elunevision Reference 4K, 1.0 gain, 16:9.

According to the brochure linked in the first post, the minimum throw distance ("Wide") for a 110-inch 16:9 screen is 3.486 meters. For a 120" screen it's 3.807m. That means (3.486+3.807)/2 = 3.647m, or almost precisely 12 feet.

Just to be on the safe side I was planning to mount the projector 12' 6" from the screen.

Does that sound okay? Just wanted to make doubly sure, since it'll be a pain to fix it later if I'm wrong, and even NASA gets these conversion calculations wrong sometimes.

Thanks!
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Looks right to me.
I've wondered about these calculations myself, as my screen size is inbetween the stated sizes on the JVC PDF's. Your numbers assume a linear relationship, but when I look at the data they provide, this is not the case. For example, the throw distances for a 100" screen are not half those of the 200" screen. It's close, but not exact. So there appears to be some non-linearity involved. Depending on your tolerances, this may not matter, but if you're really close, as many of us are, it could be important.

Does anybody have an accurate formula for calculating throw distances for screen sizes inbetween those used in the JVC charts?
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post #7033 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 03:50 AM
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I've wondered about these calculations myself, as my screen size is inbetween the stated sizes on the JVC PDF's. Your numbers assume a linear relationship, but when I look at the data they provide, this is not the case. For example, the throw distances for a 100" screen are not half those of the 200" screen. It's close, but not exact. So there appears to be some non-linearity involved. Depending on your tolerances, this may not matter, but if you're really close, as many of us are, it could be important.

Does anybody have an accurate formula for calculating throw distances for screen sizes inbetween those used in the JVC charts?
If you're that close you probably have bigger problems as the stated JVC tolerance on the table data is +/-5%!

If you look at the previous series tables the ratios between screen size and throw don't even follow a pattern - they sometimes swap around, though there is a general trend. So I have a feeling some poor sap in Japan is given the job of measuring this and creating a table. It certainly doesn't look like it has come out of any sort of robust formula...

This table is for X series:
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post #7034 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:21 AM
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Still find it amusing that they mix imperial & metric units on the same chart....
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post #7035 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:31 AM
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The N7/RS2000 could finally make its appearance in 2 days in Italy-

https://www.thereviews.it/i-nuovi-pr...ity-a-bologna/
Thank you. Thats one I am waiting for since the NX5 and NX9 have been the ones seen in the wild so far and I have the NX7 on pre-order.
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post #7036 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:39 AM
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It looks like we can expect 103% DCI-P3 (79.3% BT.2020) with the filter.
https://twitter.com/ChromaPureUK/sta...13421736493057



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post #7037 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:47 AM
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It looks like we can expect 103% DCI-P3 (79.3% BT.2020) with the filter.
https://twitter.com/ChromaPureUK/sta...13421736493057



Nice! Do they say what it reaches without the filter? . . . I'm sure Ricky of Kalibrate is on this forum, if I can find his username to tag him!
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post #7038 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:53 AM
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I haven't found anything about DCI coverage without filter yet.


There are some other pictures on his twitter account.
I'm not sure that I like this light leakage

https://twitter.com/InvisionVideo/st...98616839016448

Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
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post #7039 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:55 AM
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Nice! Do they say what it reaches without the filter? . . . I'm sure Ricky of Kalibrate is on this forum, if I can find his username to tag him!
Here we go:

@R10KYJ are you able to share anymore of your NX-9 measurements, and performance comments with us at all, following your Twitter post linked above?
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post #7040 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 04:59 AM
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I'm not sure that I like this light leakage
What light leakage?
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post #7041 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:06 AM
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What light leakage?
Look at the right side of the chassis
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post #7042 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:06 AM
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I haven't found anything about DCI coverage without filter yet.


There are some other pictures on his twitter account.
I'm not sure that I like this light leakage

https://twitter.com/InvisionVideo/st...98616839016448
DLA-X series also has a small amount of light engine light visible through that grille. The question is how much and can it reach the screen.

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post #7043 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:09 AM
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Here we go:

@R10KYJ are you able to share anymore of your NX-9 measurements, and performance comments with us at all, following your Twitter post linked above?
I posted the below on the UK Forums:

Quote:
In that time though, I did manage to calibrate a NX9 for a distibutor's launch event last week, and I have to say I was impressed. The unit was very stable, and we had it running for 2 days without issue, using all the options (apart from CMD). It was certainly a revelation compared to some of the JVC engineering units (Z1), and even some of the early production models of other models which would lock up.

HDMI handshaking was much improved, which was something I immediately noticed.

The unit did not work with the autocal software, so I was unable to do a complete calibration, but with around 20 hours on the clock (it is one of 2 x NX9 around Europe at the moment) the SDR calibrated very well, with dE of under 1 on the colour gamut (inc colourchecker and multisaturation), after a few tweaks in the user menu. Gamma tracked a little low (around 0.1 down, but was nice and flat), and overall a very good image, as you would expect from a projector of this price.

I did not get proper lumen measurements, and because this was on a big screen (140" wide, 2.35:1, AT 0.8gain screen) and I do not know exactly where it was in the throw distance, it was hard to get full contrast measurements, as I only had a limited amount of time with the unit, but it did look very nice once set up. There are some pictures on my twitter feed here: Kalibrate Limited (@ChromaPureUK) on Twitter

The auto tone mapping was working on this unit. I need to do more testing on this, as there were a couple of scenes that I felt the black floor may have lifted, and blacks may have been a little bit crushed, but this was not my usual room, so have no point of reference, and thus it may be a room limitation on contrast rather than a projector/algorithm limitation. The tone mapping becomes an option when HDR is the selected gamma. It appears to use MaxCLL and MaxFALL for its calculations, and these are reported in the gamma window. As well as doing the auto part, there is a slider with a -5 to +5 (from memory) for manual adjustment of intensity, and this was clear to see in scenes from Blade Runner 2049. I did not manage to measure to see exactly what it was doing, but as you moved positive you introduced more light into the SDR part of the image. I did not manage to test if this also meant the clipping point decreased. I did use one disc that had no metadata on it (a quiet place), it appeared that the unit defaulted to a standard 1000nit curve and the intensity bar was still working (but I need to do more testing on this).

The colour gamut with the Rec.2020 filter in place, measured 103% of P3 on this unit.
I did not measure the gamut without the filter, unfortunately, although I have an enginnering sample of the N5 arriving tomorrow for a longer test and demos, and I will be measuring the gamut, which may be similar to the NX9 (RS3000 without filter).
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post #7044 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:09 AM
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Look at the right side of the chassis
Oh I see. Not an issue for me, as mine will be in a hush box, but could be a potential issue form some, even though the vent louvres should prevent it being directly at the screen.
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post #7045 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:27 AM
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I’m in - time to replace my two RS-40 units. They’ve served me well for a long time! Looking to replace with the NX7.

(Oh and Hi everyone - long time since I’ve been on here!)
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post #7046 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:36 AM
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I posted the below on the UK Forums:

I did not measure the gamut without the filter, unfortunately, although I have an enginnering sample of the N5 arriving tomorrow for a longer test and demos, and I will be measuring the gamut, which may be similar to the NX9 (RS3000 without filter).
Thanks Ricky, much appreciated!

Subjectively, how was the sharpness of the NX9 lens, and also convergence - was it good edge to edge?

Was the DI working on that sample?

If you can post your measurements of the N5 when you've tested it, that would be great!
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post #7047 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Look at the right side of the chassis
My RS-500 had the same light leak off the same side. With the projector 14ft from the wall the stray light did in fact make it to the wall where the picture was displayed.
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post #7048 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 06:48 AM
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I'm not sure that I like this light leakage

https://twitter.com/InvisionVideo/st...98616839016448
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My RS-500 had the same light leak off the same side. With the projector 14ft from the wall the stray light did in fact make it to the wall where the picture was displayed.
About 100 pages back there were some pictures posted from the German sessions, and the light spill was lighting up the material the projector was sitting on. From @ARROW-AV post

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post #7049 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 06:52 AM
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There is always room for improvement and I'd prefer more on off contrast as a top priority. The 20LTD was the peak of evolution of the species by closing the iris down a tad more than the 640.

I run the 990 in manual iris mode and have no regrets but I'd love more. With proper masking, it takes awhile for a fade to black to begin to elevate ever so slightly.

As long as the lower gamma response is well managed, the complete black out of a laser optical block would seem to be the ideal solution.

I'm curious if closing the JVC iris further toward a full black out, introduces iris failure risks we have seen reported by projector owners. Other wise why wouldn't JVC have done so?
I have read this statement from you several times. I do not believe this to be true and here is why. The lens in the RS540, RS640 and 20LTD are the same lens. The only difference is in the grading. The 640 got hand picked parts over the 540. The 20LTD got the same treatment, only it got the best of the hand picked parts from the 640. In other words the top 20 lens manufactured and the top 20 chips manufactured. You match the top 20 chips and the top 20 lens and that gets you 2000,000:1 contrast. JVC did not change the DI allowing it to just close down more.
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post #7050 of 13655 Old 10-18-2018, 06:53 AM
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If you're that close you probably have bigger problems as the stated JVC tolerance on the table data is +/-5%!

If you look at the previous series tables the ratios between screen size and throw don't even follow a pattern - they sometimes swap around, though there is a general trend. So I have a feeling some poor sap in Japan is given the job of measuring this and creating a table. It certainly doesn't look like it has come out of any sort of robust formula...

This table is for X series:
If you take the min throw (multiple by 1000 to convert to mm) and divide by the width in mm, each pair is ~1.37 which is in line with the quoted min throw of 1.4 * width.
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