NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 275 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8221 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I think you're giving yourself more work than necessary without a good payoff.
The relationship from 0% to 1% to 2% to 5% etc plots very predictably. See here from the excellent work of Projectiondream.com:

I'm not sure how much more you'll learn unless you think that the relationship between 0% and 1% is going to somehow diverge from the obvious trend lines? (seems pretty unlikely)
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post #8222 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I feel for the people waiting, but all good things and all that... I still can't decide what to get lol. If I want a new one this year then the NX5 is at the very top of my budget so reviews are going to have to be pretty spectacular. Might just be better off trying to get the NX7 if new models come out next year. But I just want to upgrade so darn bad.lol


Tech question. I have a 3DLUT box but it does not have hdmi 2.0, can I use an HDfury(?) with the NX5 for auto calibration?

The 540 is worth considering, while it's still available.
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post #8223 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
I think you are about 3000 posts behind. Nothing shipped yet..nothing will be trickling into anybodies hands until a month from now. JVC delayed the shipment.
Not behind, been following since the beginning. A month from not is not far and that is my point. People need to relax. Before you know it they will be here.
Then again I ordered my Marantz AV8805 in Feb and didn't get it until June. Didn't care. It was a hot new product I knew would be worth the wait. If I wanted something in Feb I would have ordered something that was already available.

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post #8224 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
The 540 is worth considering, while it's still available.
Has anyone actually seen the new $3999 prices on the 790/540? I have checked weekly since CEDIA and have yet to see it advertised.

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post #8225 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
Has anyone actually seen the new $3999 prices on the 790/540? I have checked weekly since CEDIA and have yet to see it advertised.

It is JVC's MSRP and I can attest it can be had at that price. Call the dealers on the forum here.

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post #8226 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
It is JVC's MSRP and I can attest it can be had at that price. Call the dealers on the forum here.
I know JVC has stated the price will be dropping, however it's still the old price on JVCs website and other big box retailers.

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post #8227 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
I now JVC has stated the price will be dropping, however it's still the old price on JVCs website and other big box retailers.

Trust me only because I just bought one a few weeks back. Call the dealers that participate here on the forum.

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post #8228 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
Not behind, been following since the beginning. A month from not is not far and that is my point. People need to relax. Before you know it they will be here.
Then again I ordered my Marantz AV8805 in Feb and didn't get it until June. Didn't care. It was a hot new product I knew would be worth the wait. If I wanted something in Feb I would have ordered something that was already available.
OK?? Not trying to make it a big deal but you said they will be arriving any day (your quote is below)...thats not the case. They will be arriving in a month. I was just trying to clarify your statement because from your words, it didn't appear you were aware they were delayed.

"They always said end of Oct/ early Nov. It's FINALLY Nov 1. Any day these will start trickling into your waiting hands."
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post #8229 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 05:58 PM
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I'm pretty sure that since you live in TX, like I do, your HVAC couldn't deal with the heat that would be generated by a lamp with enough wattage to deliver 800 nits.
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
I know JVC has stated the price will be dropping, however it's still the old price on JVCs website and other big box retailers.
Guess the dealers who have the old price listed do not care to sell any. Got to keep those prices in check
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post #8230 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:03 PM
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OK?? Not trying to make it a big deal but you said they will be arriving any day (your quote is below)...thats not the case. They will be arriving in a month. I was just trying to clarify your statement because from your words, it didn't appear you were aware they were delayed.

"They always said end of Oct/ early Nov. It's FINALLY Nov 1. Any day these will start trickling into your waiting hands."
To me 4 weeks is not that far, any day. Before you know it they will be off the boat, and into the truck for shipment. Pick apart what I said if that's what you want. Hold JVC to "hard / estimated timelines" if that makes you feel better. I have followed along. I have watched the 60 min video twice covering the new JVCs. I have heard the comments that there are delays to the end of Novembers.

Next weekend will already be the 10th, after that the 17th, after that Thanksgiving and BF. This month will go by so damn fast unless I guess someone has nothing better to do than come up with reasons to why they don't have a JVC projector already and discuss it for hundreds of pages on AVS forum.
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post #8231 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:05 PM
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That's an overgeneralization. By no means in all instances does it do so.

I could give you some measurements and ask you to predict what the figures would be and you'd get it wrong.

There's a significant amounting of content that sits between ON/OFF and 1% ADL and in order to evaluate the comparative performances within that range estimates based off trend lines just isn't good enough. Sorry.

Also it's just 3 additional measurements and I'm not lazy

Interesting info; would you be sufficiently motivated to plot curves using a log scale for the ADL? This will likely reveal all the hidden data in the under 1% ADL.
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post #8232 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:07 PM
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You guys sound more impatient than the guy that wakes up in the middle of surgery and asks "how much longer doc"....

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post #8233 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:12 PM
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You guys sound more impatient than the guy that wakes up in the middle of surgery and asks "how much longer doc"....
Or checking the forum every 10 minutes to see if the delivery date has changed.
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post #8234 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting info; would you be sufficiently motivated to plot curves using a log scale for the ADL? This will likely reveal all the hidden data in the under 1% ADL.
I already have the data for 0% ADL (= ON/OFF) and 1% ADL, having measured these... I want to measure how the contrast tracks in-between. And I don't want to be estimating anything; I want it to be absolutely 100% accurate.

I am going to be measuring the full ADL range with respect to all of my projector reviews from here onwards.

For the benefit of those who are not in the know, ADL is defined as being the average on-screen brightness after gamma correction; and the ON/OFF contrast corresponds to an ADL of 0%, and the ANSI contrast corresponds to an ADL of 50%.

ON/OFF contrast and ANSI contrast are the two extremes of the contrast range that relates to video content. The ON/OFF Contrast only gives you the black level on a completely black picture. Similarly, the ANSI Contrast only gives you the black level at the extreme upper limit of video content brightness. Hence, typically over 99% of video content falls within these.

Consequently, in order to gain a proper understanding and to be able to properly assess and evaluate what is the comparative contrast and associated black levels performances regarding different display devices we really need to be taking measurements with respect to the contrast performance in-between the ON/OFF and ANSI contrast; namely the full range of ADL (Average Display Level) contrast.

Accurately measuring 0.1%, 0.2% and 0.5 % ADL provides the contrast performance with respect to the content coming out of and above full field black. And depending on the content there is quite the significant amount of content that falls within this range, so I consider it important to measure these further to ON/OFF and 1% ADL such that I can establish precisely what is the corresponding contrast performance between these and with respect to this range:



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post #8235 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:41 PM
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Okay so a slightly off topic question - since Shield TV does not output MaxCLL data, and I really don't want to get an ATV because of other issues, is there another player or streamer that can play my ripped 4K HDR Blu rays (very limited number though as of yet) from a NAS?

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post #8236 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:50 PM
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This is all getting confusing. I thought that wasn't what JVC ultimately said at that time. I thought it was Europe, but that the 'States were not affected, right? I always thought of JVC as initially a grassroots type of company that catered to its customer base needs. It would be nice if JVC itself just quells the anxiety by releasing an official statement rather than us hearing all this second-hand through the salesmen.
JVC doesn't sell products to end customers or communicate with end customers. JVC's customers are the dealers that they work with. JVC is talking to these dealers as they have information. I don't see a problem. If you want a status, you shouldnt look at avsforum, twitter, jvc's website. You should contact your dealer.

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post #8237 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The new JVCs do a single tone map that is designed based on the metadata. It uses MaxCLL. I have some inquiries in to JVC to answer some questions about what it does in certain circumstances, but I haven't heard back on it yet.
Kris, hi any new info from JVC on this topic? how will they handle titles with 0 data for the MaxCLL or titles where it's off the charts like Mad Max

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post #8238 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Okay so a slightly off topic question - since Shield TV does not output MaxCLL data, and I really don't want to get an ATV because of other issues, is there another player or streamer that can play my ripped 4K HDR Blu rays (very limited number though as of yet) from a NAS?
If that's your use case, setup an HTPC with madVR and have the best possible picture far superior than any ATV or shield. Especially in upscaling but also in tone mapping. MadVR's upscaler is on par with whatever is used to master UHD blurays from a 2K source.

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post #8239 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
We may not have the projectors yet, but JVC released Autocal 11

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...ationsoft.html


A serial number is needed to download the software. The one of my X9500 worked just fine.
@KarlKlammer -- which sensor do you use? I have a Calman C6 HDR sensor but I take it only the X-rite i1 Pro2 or the Datacolor Spyder5 ELITE/PRO work with the JVC software.
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post #8240 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
I know JVC has stated the price will be dropping, however it's still the old price on JVCs website and other big box retailers.
I also bought an RS540 recently. Call around to the forum dealers and you should have no problem getting it for the new MSRP if not significantly less.
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post #8241 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
@Javs from the data in this thread: AVS APL Study - Adjunct to AVS Contrast Project in conjunction with you and I having taken some ADL measurements, it is clear to me that we really need to be additionally measuring 0.1% ADL, 0.2% ADL, and 0.5% ADL, so as to map and hence be able to evaluate what is the contrast performance between ON/OFF and 1% ADL wherein there is a lot of content and there is typically a large drop. This will also be very helpful is assessing how well a projector (or other video display) performs coming out of black.

Any chance you can be a superstar and create some corresponding pairs of 0.1% ADL, 0.2% ADL, and 0.5% ADL test patterns for us to use?

I think you should pick one. Measure too low, and you are actually relying MUCH more on the accuracy of gamma calibration rather than native contrast itself. There is no way to adjust gamma that low on projectors, so the results may not be repeatable at all model to model.

This shot is 0.0156% though FYI... By the time the ship gets smaller its probably 0.01%



Maybe 0.2% is the only one you need. That interstellar shot is insanely rare as a shot that contains useful information, it may be prevalent in other films, but I wager the shots are fleeting and dont contain anything worth looking at if you get what I mean. They could be just panning shots past a dark building or tree at night, that interstellar shot is a proper considered frame. I dont remember many others like that.

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post #8242 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
This is all getting confusing. I thought that wasn't what JVC ultimately said at that time. I thought it was Europe, but that the 'States were not affected, right? I always thought of JVC as initially a grassroots type of company that catered to its customer base needs. It would be nice if JVC itself just quells the anxiety by releasing an official statement rather than us hearing all this second-hand through the salesmen.
JVC doesn't sell products to end customers or communicate with end customers. JVC's customers are the dealers that they work with. JVC is talking to these dealers as they have information. I don't see a problem. If you want a status, you shouldnt look at avsforum, twitter, jvc's website. You should contact your dealer.
You are conflating a companies go to market channel with a companies customers.

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post #8243 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Okay so a slightly off topic question - since Shield TV does not output MaxCLL data, and I really don't want to get an ATV because of other issues, is there another player or streamer that can play my ripped 4K HDR Blu rays (very limited number though as of yet) from a NAS?
If that's your use case, setup an HTPC with madVR and have the best possible picture far superior than any ATV or shield. Especially in upscaling but also in tone mapping. MadVR's upscaler is on par with whatever is used to master UHD blurays from a 2K source.
Certainly interesting ... Did you build your own? Any pointers on how to build one?

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post #8244 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 08:47 PM
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Certainly interesting ... Did you build your own? Any pointers on how to build one?
I can send you a PM on this, probably way out of scope here. I think there are htpc for madVR build threads too.

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post #8245 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 09:09 PM
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Good thing was middle KY instead of eastern Kentucky, or the hills would have killed you! And hence, no rs3000!

Was in Richmond KY couple of times this summer. Been awhile since BG. Beautiful area.


EDIT: maybe we could get park service to let us set up theater in Mammoth cave? If not, maybe the one in BG

Real bat cave theater
Mammoth Cave would not happen, but Lost River, about 4 blocks from my house would most likely do something, they have a dance floor and can be rented for events.
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post #8246 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Okay so a slightly off topic question - since Shield TV does not output MaxCLL data, and I really don't want to get an ATV because of other issues, is there another player or streamer that can play my ripped 4K HDR Blu rays (very limited number though as of yet) from a NAS?
What other issues are you talking about with the ATV4K? It works great and is probably one of the best quality streaming devices that supports both 4k DolbyVision, and Dolby Atmos.
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post #8247 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Okay so a slightly off topic question - since Shield TV does not output MaxCLL data, and I really don't want to get an ATV because of other issues, is there another player or streamer that can play my ripped 4K HDR Blu rays (very limited number though as of yet) from a NAS?
What other issues are you talking about with the ATV4K? It works great and is probably one of the best quality streaming devices that supports both 4k DolbyVision, and Dolby Atmos.
A number of posts ago (don't think that is grammatically correct &#x1f600 someone mentioned that ATV messes up HDR data, especially on content originally encoded as DV. Also ATV does not support Atmos on Prime Video (that Shield supports). Also for ripped MKV I don't think ATV supports Atmos or Lossless

I already have an ATV that I use to stream to m TV it's a great device but not for high quality movie streamer

Gear: Fronts: B&W 803D3 | Center: B&W HTM2D3 | Surrounds: B&W 705S2 | Backs: B&W DM601S3 | Heights: Definitive Techonlogy ProCinema 1000 | Receiver & Amps: Anthem MRX 720 + Emotiva BasX-5 | Projector: JVC NX7 | Source: HTPC with Nvidia 2070, Kodi + External Player: MPC-HC with MadVR (for Blu-ray rips), Nvidia Shield (for streaming content)
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post #8248 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 09:51 PM
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I can send you a PM on this, probably way out of scope here. I think there are htpc for madVR build threads too.
Would really appreciate that!

Gear: Fronts: B&W 803D3 | Center: B&W HTM2D3 | Surrounds: B&W 705S2 | Backs: B&W DM601S3 | Heights: Definitive Techonlogy ProCinema 1000 | Receiver & Amps: Anthem MRX 720 + Emotiva BasX-5 | Projector: JVC NX7 | Source: HTPC with Nvidia 2070, Kodi + External Player: MPC-HC with MadVR (for Blu-ray rips), Nvidia Shield (for streaming content)
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post #8249 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 11:13 PM
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@KarlKlammer -- which sensor do you use? I have a Calman C6 HDR sensor but I take it only the X-rite i1 Pro2 or the Datacolor Spyder5 ELITE/PRO work with the JVC software.
Only Spyder5 and i1 Pro2 are supported.

With previous JVCs I used a Spyder5 Express, but only for gamma. Using the i1 Pro2 for gamma is tricky, because it is not sensitive enough for lower luminance levels. But it makes a good job with autocal color calibration.

Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
VP/Calibration: Lumagen Radiance Pro, LightSpace CMS, x-rite i1 Pro 2, x-rite i1 Display 3
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post #8250 of 13653 Old 11-01-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
A number of posts ago (don't think that is grammatically correct &#x1f600 someone mentioned that ATV messes up HDR data, especially on content originally encoded as DV. Also ATV does not support Atmos on Prime Video (that Shield supports). Also for ripped MKV I don't think ATV supports Atmos or Lossless

I already have an ATV that I use to stream to m TV it's a great device but not for high quality movie streamer
No, the ATV4k doesn't mess up HDR data. DolbyVision content that is streamed doesn't have HDR10 metadata associated with it like UHD Blu-ray DolbyVision discs. Therefore the AppleTV has to create the metadata from the DV content. It works really well. There are only a few DV titles that have issues and that is because the ATV4k seems to be sending more than one instance of MAxCLL and MaxFALL which upsets some devices. But these are only DV titles and only a few of those.

The ATV does support Atmos on Amazon Prime with the latest release of the Amazon Prime App. It has been a bit buggy but this is an Amazon problem not the ATV4K. Amazon doesn't seem to be on top of any bug fixes in their app that they create for the ATV4k. But Jack Ryan is indeed playing in Atmos on ATV4K with the latest Amazon app.

I am not sure what apps play ripped files but I know it is possible.

The ATV4k is probably the best quality media streamer available until you go to something like MADVR on a HTPC which is a lot more expensive and requires a setup more complicated than a simple streaming device connected to a projector.
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