NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 311 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9301 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Maybe not on the record, but I thought one of the reps said it was no longer a problem. In my old age, my memory isn't what it used to be.
I'm just having some fun. " The problem we never officially admitted was a problem is no longer a problem. Unofficially. "
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post #9302 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
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Originally Posted by umr View Post
I am a professional calibrator. I do not calibrate them anymore except for clients for whom I have worked with in the past. I have zero interest in seeing another SXRD product. I have calibrated hundreds of SXRD products over the years.

Are your JVC projection calibrations well regarded? Have you been using custom HDR curves? Do you recommend Panny UB820 tone mapping now?
That's Jeff Meier, one of the best calibrators in the world.
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post #9303 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
That's Jeff Meier, one of the best calibrators in the world.
I know! I didn't even know who it was until I read later his signature. I just got a PM from him and hopefully we can set something up.
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post #9304 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
Jeff, would you mind expanding on the above. What do you mean by shifted?
When SXRD first was on the scene the problem would tend to appear as yellow or green splotches. It also could appear as a strong purple shift near black. The black level would also increase.

The light output of black is still increasing, but the color is now shifting to blue with it being strongest in the darker regions. It also is much more uniform than in the past. Gamma is also falling overtime which reduces color saturation. This type of shift is much less obvious to consumers than a non-uniform problem.

I see the impact of this in as little as 200 hours of operation. After 2000 hours it is very pronounced. The higher the lamp or laser setting that is used the faster the problem will occur.

I have spent a lot of my personal time helping clients get warranty replacement of their SXRD projectors in the past. I am done with spending any of my time with Sony projectors and dealing with Sony on warranty claims.

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post #9305 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I've ordered the NX9 because someone here posted he saw both the newer Sony and one of the 4k JVCs below the NX9 and said he thought the Sony had the better motion but the motion on the NX9, he said, was as good.
He never said the NX9 was as good in motion as the Sony, good yes but not as good.

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post #9306 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
That's Jeff Meier, one of the best calibrators in the world.
I know! I didn't even know who it was until I read later his signature. I just got a PM from him and hopefully we can set something up.
I have him coming out to calibrate my nx7 in May 🙂
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post #9307 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
He never said the NX9 was as good in motion as the Sony, good yes but not as good.
You're mistaken. Go back and read the posts. I'm posting this as it may be of interest to others here too. He compared the N5 with the Sony 570. He said motion on the Sony was better than the N5's. I asked whether the Sony's was better than the NX9's motion and he said "no," which means the NX9's is at least as good or better. Here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57092368
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post #9308 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:00 AM
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I get that's how you interpreted it.

"Sony 570's motion better than the NX9's too?"

but he didn't actually answer your question, he simply stated that it was good.

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

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post #9309 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle:

Hi, its there some diference Elite VS PRO?

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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
The tripod mount is not visible in that photo. All 3 models have it. My Pro definitely has it.

NOTE that the price for the Pro is not correct. It was on sale (I got one), but no longer is.
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post #9310 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
I get that's how you interpreted it.

"Sony 570's motion better than the NX9's too?"

but he didn't actually answer your question, he simply stated that it was good.

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"
The longer I watch my JVC the less difference I see. I watched a bit of content on 4 or 5 VW5000's and 2 or 3 VW995's at Cedia. To my eyes motion didn't look any different than on my RS4500.

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post #9311 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
I think their literature is mistaken, all the photos i've seen of the express had the tripod mount, only ambient light sensor was missing which isn't used for the autocal.

I have an elite that works perfect for fixing gamma droop on my RS600 and plan on using it on the RS2000 if that becomes an issue on those models.
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post #9312 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
I get that's how you interpreted it.

"Sony 570's motion better than the NX9's too?"

but he didn't actually answer your question, he simply stated that it was good.

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"
Thank you. I have to get back to other things now. But I think objectively, any reasonable person would interpret those words in bold to their plain meaning without breaking out Webster's.
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post #9313 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
Damn Craig, blow my math mental out of the park. I had it all figured out that buying the RS3000 would be a better financial option. But the RS4500 street price vs. the RS3000 pre-order price is most likely not near each other. But I didn't ask the question from my dealer either. The RS3000 was a difficult purchase decision only made due to pre-order pricing values. If you are hinting that the two projector's prices are closer than my guess, I don't think I have the abilities to stretch that difference. I'm a cheap bastard, so I'll stretch the bulb life out as far as I can. But with DIY bulb swapping, I'm hoping that I can regain the price/value equation down the road. Or so it seems based on very early discussions in this thread about DIY bare bulb replacements. Tell me if I'm wrong.
If you are a " cheap bastard " ( I'm just quoting you, don't shoot the messenger ), you will get more hours out of lamps for sure. I'm a brightness lover, and tend to throw cash at problems I don't like ( another way of saying i'm the opposite of a cheap bastard ). You are good to go - stay the course !
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post #9314 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Domcorleone View Post
I'm still debating whether I should stick with my N7 preorder or go with the Sony 695es with very good pricing. I currently have the 790r which I love but I game in 4k alot and value that extra sharpness that native 4K brings.

Does JVC have a Reality Creation equivalent or have they improved the sharpness at all? I stream alot of movies as well so thats why I am looking at Sonys.
At CEDIA the RS1000 was able to resolve a single line 4K pixel pattern. That is saying a lot, for sharpness.
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post #9315 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Thank you. I have to get back to other things now. But I think objectively, any reasonable person would interpret those words in bold to their plain meaning without breaking out Webster's.

Agreed, I think this quote

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

means this

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

not this

"Yes, motion is as good as the sony."


With that said i am looking forward to the JVC motion now that it is all done in house and supposed to be improved.

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post #9316 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I think their literature is mistaken, all the photos i've seen of the express had the tripod mount, only ambient light sensor was missing which isn't used for the autocal.
The Ambient Light calibration IS available separately in the Autocal (although it may not be in earlier versions). Comments that I've seen seem to indicate that it doesn't have much value, however.
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post #9317 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
If you are a " cheap bastard " ( I'm just quoting you, don't shoot the messenger ), you will get more hours out of lamps for sure. I'm a brightness lover, and tnd to throw cash at problems I don't like ( another way of saying i'm the opposite of a cheap bastard ). You are good to go - stay the course !
Bang, bang. Sorry had to add my two cents. Hahaha
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post #9318 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post
When SXRD first was on the scene the problem would tend to appear as yellow or green splotches. It also could appear as a strong purple shift near black. The black level would also increase.

The light output of black is still increasing, but the color is now shifting to blue with it being strongest in the darker regions. It also is much more uniform than in the past. Gamma is also falling overtime which reduces color saturation. This type of shift is much less obvious to consumers than a non-uniform problem.

I see the impact of this in as little as 200 hours of operation. After 2000 hours it is very pronounced. The higher the lamp or laser setting that is used the faster the problem will occur.

I have spent a lot of my personal time helping clients get warranty replacement of their SXRD projectors in the past. I am done with spending any of my time with Sony projectors and their dealing with Sony on warranty claims.
My Sony HW40ES with only 262 hours, started showing panel degradation at 210 hours of use. It shows blue corners and blue sides. Same thing happened with my previous Sony VW40 with only 300 hours of use. The HW40ES is my last Sony projector fiasco for sure.
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post #9319 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
The Ambient Light calibration IS available separately in the Autocal (although it may not be in earlier versions). Comments that I've seen seem to indicate that it doesn't have much value, however.
Hi, yes its available but not part of the typical calibration workflow for the JVC.

Most are generally using it to fix gamma droop as their are inconsistencies between different copies of the same meter. I wouldn't recommend the full color calibration with one of these unless it's checked against a known reference meter as it may make it worse. They are all fine for gamma though.
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post #9320 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Agreed, I think this quote

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

means this

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

not this

"Yes, motion is as good as the sony."


With that said i am looking forward to the JVC motion now that it is all done in house and supposed to be improved.

I think you will have to ask the poster to clarify. Question asked:

"Sony 570's motion better than the NX9's too?"

An answer of yes would say the motion on the Sony is better. An answer of no, would say the motion is not better. He answered:

"No motion looked really good on the NX9"

Perhaps he left out the comma and meant to post:

"No, motion looked really good on the NX9"

No, answering that the motion is not better on the Sony and then reaffirming that the motion was very good on the JVC.
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post #9321 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Domcorleone View Post
I'm still debating whether I should stick with my N7 preorder or go with the Sony 695es with very good pricing. I currently have the 790r which I love but I game in 4k alot and value that extra sharpness that native 4K brings.
Does JVC have a Reality Creation equivalent or have they improved the sharpness at all? I stream alot of movies as well so thats why I am looking at Sonys.
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I can tell you that the native 4K JVC projector I have is already tack sharp. With all enhancement / sharpness settings set at 0. I'm sure the new projectors will be the same. The RS1000 at Cedia looked super sharp too. That's the first thing I noticed. This was shot from moving video -
Just to add to what @Craig Peer says here... The sharpness with the lenses that feature within the JVC RS4500/Z1 and NX9/RS3000 doesn't need improving. These are without a doubt the best performance lenses of any home theater/cinema projector costing less than 100K. They outperform SONY's ARC-F lenses.

Also, from what I have seen with respect to two different units of the N5/RS1000 so far the new and improved lens that features in that projector as well as the N7/RS2000 is precisely that, improved; and a very nice sharp image that's for sure. It's not as perfect as the lenses that feature within the JVC RS4500/Z1 and NX9/RS3000, but it would seem to be a noticeable step up performance wise as compared with the pre-existing eShift projector range lenses

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post #9322 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:44 AM
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That's possible, so Mike you've seen both models at Cedia, was the motion different in anyway between the models?

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post #9323 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:45 AM
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Hey JVC

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post #9324 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by umr View Post
I would avoid Sony. I see degradation of SXRD panels in as little as 200 hours of use. I have stopped working on them. The gamma and colors in these drift so rapidly calibration makes little sense. Especially now that JVC has a true 4K product at lower price points.
Reality Creation does not improve sharpness. It is an enhancement. Projector sharpness is more a function of the optical system than anything else. I find JVC units to be sharper than Sony on average. I highly recommend JVC products to my clients.
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Thanks Jeff. I am in no position to question your findings as your reputation precedes you as being one of the best in the business. I do find it interesting since the topic seems to have died off the last few years as folks (including myself) where under the impression it was fixed or at least reduced to such an extent that it wasn't material anymore.
I will state that they changed something for the better because on the HW50 it was evident to the naked eye (didn't need to measure it to notice it). I used the HW 65 for almost two years and the 385 for one year and didn't notice it at all.
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I see it on the latest machines. They have shifted the problem from what it was in the past, but it still exists. I have worked on products from the VPL-VW5000ES on down. It is not the best move from a business perspective to tell clients I will not work on their Sony projector. I am just sick of having to constantly use the Image Director software to try and recover a reasonable white balance and gamma. It is even a bigger problem with HDR than SDR.
People tend to trust what they have bought unless it is obviously flawed.
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
That is good to know. Sony has said at Cedia that the problem was fixed. Based on your observations, they may still have a problem.
I don't blame you for declining to work on the Sonys. There is nothing more frustrating than having to fix a problem that was not of your own making. Especially when it is on your dime.
I am seeing examples of such calibration shifting and contrast loss with the SONY 885/760ES… It’s by no means as bad or as prevalent as with respect to older models, such as the SONY 1100ES, wherein I recently measured a SONY 1100ES where the peak native ON/OFF contrast had dropped to 1700:1 but it’s still there with respect to some units, where the calibration shift is pretty noticeable.

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post #9325 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
That's possible, so Mike you've seen both models at Cedia, was the motion different in anyway between the models?
For several years, measured results have shown that Sony and JVC motion is the same. Now Sony has had better frame interpolation, so with that engaged, Sony was better. This year, JVC is supposed to have improved the FI in their new line. Will have to wait, until compared side by side, to see how they match up.
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post #9326 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:52 AM
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Hey JVC

Yes - at 4:30 pm Pacific time - that's the rumor anyway.
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post #9327 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I am seeing examples of such calibration shifting and contrast loss with the SONY 885/760ES… It’s by no means as bad as with respect to older models, such as the SONY 1100ES, wherein I recently measured a SONY 1100ES where the peak native ON/OFF contrast had dropped to 1700:1 , but it’s still there. The calibration shift is very noticeable

HMP...
So it's still a problem !

Sony thrives on the unsuspecting person off the street that know nothing about projectors...

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post #9328 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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HMP...
So it's still a problem !

Sony thrives on the unsuspecting person off the street that know nothing about projectors...
That and being the only option for a true 4K projector at lower price points. The price problem will be solved once JVC starts shipping these new units.
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post #9329 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey JVC

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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Yes - at 4:30 pm Pacific time - that's the rumor anyway.
Are you sure 4:30pm? I am hearing that might be delayed...
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post #9330 of 13653 Old 11-21-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I can tell you that the native 4K JVC projector I have is already tack sharp. With all enhancement / sharpness settings set at 0. I'm sure the new projectors will be the same. The RS1000 at Cedia looked super sharp too. That's the first thing I noticed. This was shot from moving video -

Are these images from the RS1000?

JVC DLA-NX9 | Paladin Anamorphic Lens | Panasonic UB820 | Denon AVR-X6400H | Rotel RB 993 Amp | 135" 2:35:1 Elunevision Aurora NanoEdge Ambient Light Blocking Screen | Paradigm Monitor 11 v7, Monitor Center 3 v7, Monitor Surround 3 v7, CI Pro P65-R |
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