NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 317 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9481 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 04:41 PM
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Happy Thanksgiving!

https://youtu.be/4CbLXeGSDxg

Can't wait for that movie!! That teaser gave me goosebumps!!
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post #9482 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 04:49 PM
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Unfortunately, that is where the problem lies. Even auto manufacturers issue recalls and updates. When you are paying upwards of a small to large automobile for some of these units it would have been nice for Sony to give consumers a little more consideration.
Nah, you should be grateful they sold it to you... Hehehe

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post #9483 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 05:14 PM
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lol. Yep that is Sony for you. I will be moving over to JVC in the future.



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Nah, you should be grateful they sold it to you... Hehehe

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post #9484 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 05:24 PM
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Not to be a buzz kill but this is a worldwide release issue.
I agree......

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Craig, I love ya..but I don't agree with ya

There is clearly something "to them" or else JVC would have come out and said everything is on track. Get ready to enjoy your new toys!!!!!
Bottom line, I don't see dealers saying if they are wrong, well give you free projectors, when that's said, maybe there sure...lol. When they are touched, they are in stock, until then.....all speculation.
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post #9485 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 05:25 PM
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Happy Thanksgiving!

https://youtu.be/4CbLXeGSDxg

This is going to be great !!!
I love this stuff !
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post #9486 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 06:32 PM
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So I was going to move up from the Epson 5040 I have to the Sony 295es... and then I subscribed to this forum. And then I spent the last few days catching up on the discussion. Now, like everyone else here, wait. I really just want true 4K and HDR when playing my PS4. When I see how good HDR gaming with Red Dead Redemption or Spider-Man looks on my fairly crappy Vizio, well, I have high hopes for the NX5.


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post #9487 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DanGraney View Post
So I was going to move up from the Epson 5040 I have to the Sony 295es... and then I subscribed to this forum. And then I spent the last few days catching up on the discussion. Now, like everyone else here, wait. I really just want true 4K and HDR when playing my PS4. When I see how good HDR gaming with Red Dead Redemption or Spider-Man looks on my fairly crappy Vizio, well, I have high hopes for the NX5.


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I owed the 5040 for a couple weeks before moving to JVC. Moving to JVC rs420 was a massive improvement from the 5040. I now have the 790r and the only thing I’ve been wanting from it was 4K. You’ll be very very happy with the NX5!
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post #9488 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 07:51 PM
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I have a JVC RS-1 which I purchased in 2017, and I've been holding off for some time on upgrading it in anticipation of JVC offering a native 4K projector. The screen I have is a 120" inch wide Da-Lite Hi Power screen with a gain of 3.0. From what I've read, the brightness of the JVC projectors over the past few years is significantly greater than what it was with the RS-1.

My question is, if I were looking at upgrading to one of the new JVC 4k native projectors or one of the more recent discontinued JVC models that seem to be favored on this forum, is it possible that the image will be "too bright" with my screen gain of 3.0? Maybe it is a stupid question to ask if an image can be too bright, but I'm just trying to figure out for planning purposes if I'm going to be able to live with my current screen (which is in excellent shape) and put money into the projector, or whether I am going to have to replace both the projector and the screen.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

EDIT: FWIW, my screen is a widescreen screen and I zoom in to get a 2:35 to 1 image (no anamorphic lens) so I lose a little bit of brightness there possibly.

Last edited by smitty; 11-22-2018 at 07:57 PM.
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post #9489 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I would start with picking up the Display Pro first - they are generally consistent between copies and will help with a basic calibration for greyscale, gamma, color gamut. All the projectors i've calibrated over the last 10 years need at least this basic health check out of the box and proper tweaks when needed.

If gamma droop proves to be an issue with these new models, then you would pick up the spyder 5 pro later to correct it.

The link below is a good basic primer here for understanding the concepts of calibration. This is an older article but the core principles still apply today.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
Thank you!
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post #9490 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
I have a JVC RS-1 which I purchased in 2017, and I've been holding off for some time on upgrading it in anticipation of JVC offering a native 4K projector. The screen I have is a 120" inch wide Da-Lite Hi Power screen with a gain of 3.0. From what I've read, the brightness of the JVC projectors over the past few years is significantly greater than what it was with the RS-1.

My question is, if I were looking at upgrading to one of the new JVC 4k native projectors or one of the more recent discontinued JVC models that seem to be favored on this forum, is it possible that the image will be "too bright" with my screen gain of 3.0? Maybe it is a stupid question to ask if an image can be too bright, but I'm just trying to figure out for planning purposes if I'm going to be able to live with my current screen (which is in excellent shape) and put money into the projector, or whether I am going to have to replace both the projector and the screen.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

EDIT: FWIW, my screen is a widescreen screen and I zoom in to get a 2:35 to 1 image (no anamorphic lens) so I lose a little bit of brightness there possibly.

Hi, it sounds like you have the 2.8 gain version of the HP screen. You wouldn't have any issues with either the e-shift or upcoming 4K models with this screen, it's actually an advantage for UHD HDR content. With SDR content (Bluray, TV broadcast, etc) , you can clamp down the iris in low lamp to control overall brightness and this also increases the native contrast of the projector as well. For HDR content, you would open it up more and likely be able to run in low lamp the majority of the time.

I have a 142" 16:9 version of this screen and it works great with my JVC RS600. I have 1500 + hours on lamp and still run low lamp for most content.

definitely don't get rid of the screen until you've had a chance to see it first with a newer model. Going from an RS1 to any of the last 3 year JVC models would be a huge upgrade in every possible way. color, brightness, sharpness, contrast, etc.
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post #9491 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 10:17 PM
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Has anyone tried these.. Do they really provide a brighter image?

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They works perfect with JVC...
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post #9492 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 10:24 PM
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Same here, RS-1 and a 2.8 high power. Except I've had my RS-1 for ten years.

Before the JVC, I had a 2800 lumen LCD projector. Before there were such things as irises and low lamp. So something over 60 foot lamberts. Almost never felt it was too bright. Ok, maybe in the fade to white when Frodo wakes up in Rivendell.

Having a huge bright image is something to experience. But like you, I'm dying to see HDR on it as well. Keep the screen.
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post #9493 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post
I have a JVC RS-1 which I purchased in 2017, and I've been holding off for some time on upgrading it in anticipation of JVC offering a native 4K projector. The screen I have is a 120" inch wide Da-Lite Hi Power screen with a gain of 3.0. From what I've read, the brightness of the JVC projectors over the past few years is significantly greater than what it was with the RS-1.

My question is, if I were looking at upgrading to one of the new JVC 4k native projectors or one of the more recent discontinued JVC models that seem to be favored on this forum, is it possible that the image will be "too bright" with my screen gain of 3.0? Maybe it is a stupid question to ask if an image can be too bright, but I'm just trying to figure out for planning purposes if I'm going to be able to live with my current screen (which is in excellent shape) and put money into the projector, or whether I am going to have to replace both the projector and the screen.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

EDIT: FWIW, my screen is a widescreen screen and I zoom in to get a 2:35 to 1 image (no anamorphic lens) so I lose a little bit of brightness there possibly.
I have heard this a few times, how a high gain screen can be too bright. With a JVC projector, it's kind of impossible. For instance, with a light control room, 12ftL is the lowest majority will go. If you have a 1.0 gain screen at 120in diagonal, you'll need about 525 lumens for 12ftL. Which is low, many prefer 16-18ftL, which is 700 to 800 lumens. Factor in HDR, where you will need at minimum 25ftL, which will be around 1000 lumens.

Now using your screen that is 2.8 gain, a jvc can go as low as 200-250 lumens. With a 120in wide screen that is 2.8 gain, you'll get less than 10ftL with the aperture completely close. Of course increasing the aperture will give you more brightness, but it's almost impossible to be too bright. I have a 2.2 gain screen and appreciate getting 20ftL with 100k+ contrast on all my content.
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post #9494 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 11:02 PM
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. In looking at the specs for the new projectors, I noticed that they are quite large, especially in terms of width. The width of the RS-1000, for example, is about 19 1/2 inches, which is too wide for the cabinet where my RS-1 is currently located. So I'd probably have to move the projector to the top of the cabinet, which raises it up about 17" and will defeat quite a bit of the gain of the High Power screen. So that should alleviate any theoretical possibility that it would be "too much" with a projector putting out 1800 lumens or whatever.

I'm probably going to have to get the projector once they become widely available, and experiment with the height of the projector, possibly replacing the cabinet, etc. I suppose the other option is to get one of last year's JVC models, which are a bit smaller in width and would fit in my cabinet, but I'm not sure they'll still be around when I get around to making a purchase.

Again, thanks for the help. You guys have set my mind at ease. Replacing my current screen would be a PITA.

Last edited by smitty; 11-22-2018 at 11:07 PM.
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post #9495 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 11:26 PM
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I have heard this a few times, how a high gain screen can be too bright. With a JVC projector, it's kind of impossible. For instance, with a light control room, 12ftL is the lowest majority will go. If you have a 1.0 gain screen at 120in diagonal, you'll need about 525 lumens for 12ftL. Which is low, many prefer 16-18ftL, which is 700 to 800 lumens. Factor in HDR, where you will need at minimum 25ftL, which will be around 1000 lumens.

Now using your screen that is 2.8 gain, a jvc can go as low as 200-250 lumens. With a 120in wide screen that is 2.8 gain, you'll get less than 10ftL with the aperture completely close. Of course increasing the aperture will give you more brightness, but it's almost impossible to be too bright. I have a 2.2 gain screen and appreciate getting 20ftL with 100k+ contrast on all my content.
Only the 7 series and up can get that dark thanks to the dual iris.
The 5 series can be too bright with a high-gain screen.
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post #9496 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 11:34 PM
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Only the 7 series and up can get that dark thanks to the dual iris.
The 5 series can be too bright with a high-gain screen.
The entry model is 350-400 lumens. I would call that extreme in anyway. But if you have 100in or less, maybe it can be. But people do prefer less than 16ftL and they should not have high gain screens.
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post #9497 of 13653 Old 11-22-2018, 11:36 PM
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Maybe (for Netflix anyway) we won't see any more broken programmes (I can hope). I don't buy content on Itunes - if I'm owning it I want it 100%, not 90%. Though there is quite a list of titles that is broken there, too.
I understand what you are saying and I do hope Apple gets this fixed fast or that the JVC Auto Tone Mapping plays nice with some of the less than perfect metadata.

But honestly, is this really a big deal. I mean all of the SDR, HDR10 content works fine. Only DV content is effected and I have only run into it on less than 10% of the shows I have watched.

In addition, when I do come across the issue I just switch to SDR 4k output on the ATV4k and turn off match dynamic range. Problem solved. The title plays fine and honestly 75% of the time it looks better in 4k SDR than it did in DV converted to HDR10.

Just tonight I watched Crazy Rich Asians on iTunes, rented movie. I came across the DV issue once and decided to switch to SDR 4k. It actually looked better in SDR. Brighter and more vibrant. I still got the Dolby Atmos soundtrack and the playback was excellent with my 385.
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post #9498 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 12:04 AM
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The entry model is 350-400 lumens. I would call that extreme in anyway. But if you have 100in or less, maybe it can be. But people do prefer less than 16ftL and they should not have high gain screens.
I recall Ekki measured the 5000 series at 480 lumens for iris closed / low lamp / min throw.
http://cine4home.de/cine4home-edition-jvc-dla-x5000/
Anyway, the point is it's not "kind of impossible" to be too bright with a high screen with JVC PJs...
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post #9499 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 12:16 AM
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I understand what you are saying and I do hope Apple gets this fixed fast or that the JVC Auto Tone Mapping plays nice with some of the less than perfect metadata.

But honestly, is this really a big deal. I mean all of the SDR, HDR10 content works fine. Only DV content is effected and I have only run into it on less than 10% of the shows I have watched.

In addition, when I do come across the issue I just switch to SDR 4k output on the ATV4k and turn off match dynamic range. Problem solved. The title plays fine and honestly 75% of the time it looks better in 4k SDR than it did in DV converted to HDR10.

Just tonight I watched Crazy Rich Asians on iTunes, rented movie. I came across the DV issue once and decided to switch to SDR 4k. It actually looked better in SDR. Brighter and more vibrant. I still got the Dolby Atmos soundtrack and the playback was excellent with my 385.
It depends on what you watch. I'm pretty sure on AppleTV 4K Netflix there isn't HDR10 content (you can check the format streamed to the ATV using the developer HUD); everything HDR is streamed to the AppleTV as Dolby Vision in that app, and there is a lot of broken content. For me Netflix is a big source of HDR content; I won't buy content via Apple Itunes to watch - if it is a movie I want I want it "full fat" so always go for disc.

With regards to your last night; personally it drives me up the wall settling in to watch a movie then getting dragged into thinking I need to switch to this or that to make it actually work. Unfortunately folk living and /or not understanding that the AppleTV is the root cause probably contributes to the issue not getting addressed. You're right, the other option is to turn off HDR completely for a "seamless" experience. And indeed, I'd advocate that as probably a better approach than a workaround that breaks other stuff or results in indeterminate behaviour. But in doing so you'll lose what I think is more important than the dynamic range - you'll lose the Wide Colour Gamut, too.

Really all metadata deviation from standards needs jumping on. For the reason of not being able to see into the future realtime image analysis for tone mapping cannot be as good as correctly implemented dynamic metadata, so studios, device manufacturers and content services need to realise the importance of getting this right, and dragging over the coals until they comply... :-p
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post #9500 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 12:24 AM
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I mean all of the SDR, HDR10 content works fine. Only DV content is effected and I have only run into it on less than 10% of the shows I have watched. In addition, when I do come across the issue I just switch to SDR 4k output on the ATV4k and turn off match dynamic range. Just tonight I watched Crazy Rich Asians on iTunes, rented movie. I came across the DV issue once and decided to switch to SDR 4k. It actually looked better in SDR. Brighter and more vibrant. I still got the Dolby Atmos soundtrack and the playback was excellent with my 385.
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You're right, the other option is to turn off HDR completely for a "seamless" experience. And indeed, I'd advocate that as probably a better approach than a workaround that breaks other stuff or results in indeterminate behaviour. But in doing so you'll lose what I think is more important than the dynamic range - you'll lose the Wide Colour Gamut, too.
So, is SDR 4K output from the ATV4k Rec709 and NOT SDR BT.2020??
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Unboxing NX9-


Since it doesn't have all the manuals, cables, bags, etc it would seem it is a unit that does the rounds
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I will be doing just that next Tuesday!!!
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So, is SDR 4K output from the ATV4k Rec709 and NOT SDR BT.2020??
Yes. Disabling "Match Dynamic Range" and playing back some DV content results in SDR709 playback of said content.
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post #9504 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 01:03 AM
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Really all metadata deviation from standards needs jumping on. For the reason of not being able to see into the future realtime image analysis for tone mapping cannot be as good as correctly implemented dynamic metadata, so studios, device manufacturers and content services need to realise the importance of getting this right, and dragging over the coals until they comply... :-p
I agree that manufacturers have to get metadata correct but no projector handles dynamic metadata. On top of that, the video content labels for Apple aren't supplying HDR10 metadata. They are just supplying DV data. Apple is at least trying to make it work for HDR10 only users by calculating it on the fly but honestly this is what happens when you have multiple standards.

If the video is supplied with DV metadata then it may or may not be possible to calculate correct HDR10 metadata from the DV data. Especially HDR10 metadata that matches what the original master for blu-ray intended.

This problem is only going to get worse because more and more flat panel TVs are going to support DV. This may lead to the death of HDR10 metadata for streaming devices if they quit supplying HDR10 metadata.

It may be like the betamax / VHS wars. As a result, for streaming, DV may win and HDR10 just won't be available except on UHD blu-ray disc where it is required. Unless that changes over time as well.
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post #9505 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 01:04 AM
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Yes. Disabling "Match Dynamic Range" and playing back some DV content results in SDR709 playback of said content.
Thanks for that clarification. What color space is obtained when playing Netflix via a Panasonic UHD player which is set at SDR BT.2020 (or is that color space selection only valid for play back of UHD Blu-Ray content)?
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I recall Ekki measured the 5000 series at 480 lumens for iris closed / low lamp / min throw.
http://cine4home.de/cine4home-edition-jvc-dla-x5000/
Anyway, the point is it's not "kind of impossible" to be too bright with a high screen with JVC PJs...
It would seem that anyone using a projector that requires less than 400 lumens are probably not the ones who prefer high gain screen. They would want to watch at extremely low ftLs I would assume. But there are one or two who prefer 6-10ftL.

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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Thanks for that clarification. What color space is obtained when playing Netflix via a Panasonic UHD player which is set at SDR BT.2020 (or is that color space selection only valid for play back of UHD Blu-Ray content)?
I think you can output SDR BT2020 with the Panasonic fine. The Panasonic apps might even correctly output HDR10 BT 2020 from DolbyVision Netflix titles but I haven't tried it.

This is a mainly and Apple TV issue because they have a lot of DolbyVision streaming content. Since streams aren't required to carry HDR10 Metadata along with the DV metadata, Apple calculates the HDR10 metadata from the DV stream. Unfortunately for many titles the calculation is incorrect or it changes multiple times during a program which isn't allowed by HDR10 standards.

I believe the NVidea Shield has no problem with this but I also don't think the shield supports DV. Apple supports DV but has issues with HDR10 metadata calculated from that DV stream. HDR10 content on the ATV4k is fine.
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post #9508 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 01:39 AM
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Hello people,


I got a RS620 but haven't had time to use it a lot. Seeing that there is new natives 4K projectors I'm stressing out that it will be obsolete and made an error.


A lot of 4K Blurays are only 2K upscale and honestly I prefer good wide gammut in SDR. Should I worry that I made a mistake by not waiting ?
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post #9509 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 01:43 AM
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Lol this improvement and fot this was delay?





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post #9510 of 13653 Old 11-23-2018, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddle View Post
Lol this improvement and fot this was delay?
I know your username is 'Riddle' but come on, what is that supposed to mean?
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