NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 323 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9661 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I believe Mike Garret stayed it was 24dB in low lamp. A 3dB increase will likely be perceptible but it’s probably not a deal breaker for me since the old 21dB fans were so quiet.

I hope this isn't the case. Every 3dB increase doubles the volume of fan noise.
Supposedly, the fan noise is at a lower pitch, so while 3db louder, it may actually be less noticeable
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post #9662 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:12 PM
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hmm bigger slower moving fans are actually louder? This ive got to hear.

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post #9663 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Just out of curiosity, will the middle aged human eye actually perceive a difference in image reality by "only" seeing 93% of WCG, when compared with 97%, in the typical home theater of the posters here??? There is at least one ophthalmologist who monitors this thread, so maybe he could enlighten us. If not, then it would seem to be merely chasing (unobtainable) perfection......
What's up, doc?!

As a clinician, I'm not in a position to give an evidence-based answer to this very specific question. And given how there is significant person-to-person variation in the range and sensitivity of essentially all of our senses, I would be skeptical that a single answer can be given.

It would require a fairly rigorously controlled testing environment to answer this question. My guess would be that if the imagery used for such testing would emphasize the range and intensity of those colors in that 4% 'gap,' that careful and quick A/B comparisons would allow at least some people to see differences. But in terms of 'real world' movie content, taking into consideration posts by some of the senior posters here, who indicate that most movies rarely exploit that full WCG (while videogame content would be more likely to take it to the limit), my guess is that these differences would be subtle at best, with undetectable being more likely.

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post #9664 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
What's up, doc?!

As a clinician, I'm not in a position to give an evidence-based answer to this very specific question. And given how there is significant person-to-person variation in the range and sensitivity of essentially all of our senses, I would be skeptical that a single answer can be given.

It would require a fairly rigorously controlled testing environment to answer this question. My guess would be that if the imagery used for such testing would emphasize the range and intensity of those colors in that 4% 'gap,' that careful and quick A/B comparisons would allow at least some people to see differences. But in terms of 'real world' movie content, taking into consideration posts by some of the senior posters here, who indicate that most movies rarely exploit that full WCG (while videogame content would be more likely to take it to the limit), my guess is that these differences would be subtle at best, with undetectable being more likely.
Thanks for weighing in, Don. I was hoping that you were still monitoring this thread. My impression exactly matches yours, regarding real world (not gamer's) content of currently available media. We know that, as we age, many measurable aspects of visual acuity & perception (typically) deteriorate. I certainly understand why enthusiasts can become obsessed with seeking to obtain that last fraction of accuracy in color reproduction, irrespective of whether or not that may actually represent any meaningful enhancement of the viewing experience for the vast audience. I think that having confidence that the color gamut of the latest PJs faithfully reproduce what's on the source medium should really be what we're interested in.

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post #9665 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:50 PM
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How close to the back wall can I safely place a N7? Trying to see how big of a screen I can fill up in my space. I have 12.5’ between screen and back wall.

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post #9666 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post
I hope this isn't the case. Every 3dB increase doubles the volume of fan noise.


3dB does not sound twice as loud. We discussed this before and it seems it is actually 6-10 dB increase in to hear it as twice as loud.


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post #9667 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
hmm bigger slower moving fans are actually louder? This ive got to hear.

Is there a published spec from JVC that says the fans are larger diameter and slower? I have not heard that. Mike Garrett spoke with JVC and they stated 24dB. Could be incorrect but at least it is JVC telling a dealer.


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post #9668 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Every time I see a Studiotek 100 used for a demo at CES or Cedia, I can tell it's not a ST130 right away. It looks dull to me.
Funny because every time I looked at an ST130 I knew right away it was not an ST100 because of notable sparklies.
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post #9669 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
Are we still offering speculation on the cause of the delay?

Based on @westmd post about the N5 coming in (to Europe) soon but the NX9 still being an unknown delay, could the lens iris be an issue? In the dual iris system the lens iris is what needs to move fast with content, but on the 4500 the single iris (also in that same lens as the NX9?) was purely the "bulb" iris correct? Maybe in some samples the iris is fine but in others it too slow (as the bulb iris it would only need to move 1-2 steps per second) and could also be why in the preproduction machines it was disabled but JVC thought they had it operating well enough.

Just my thought, pure speculation.
Your speculation is as good as anyone else's

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Who and where in Colorado is this Preproduction unit? I would love to have a chance to view this RS3000.
Yes indeed right
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post #9670 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Domcorleone View Post
Craig, I might have a chance to get the Sony 885ES for a real good price. Since you have the 45000 do you think its better for me to go with a Sony laser or the RS3000? Aside from lamp life is there any other inherit benefits to laser projectors?
That's a tough one. I'm not giving up laser. But, I do think the RS4500 is a better projector than the VW885. My gut reaction is to say " get an RS4500 ".
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post #9671 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Is there a published spec from JVC that says the fans are larger diameter and slower? I have not heard that. Mike Garrett spoke with JVC and they stated 24dB. Could be incorrect but at least it is JVC telling a dealer.


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No published spec but you can see it through the intake vent, it seems larger to me.

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post #9672 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Your particular setup might also have effected how your screen looked ( much more lens shift vs a lower projector with minimal lens shift = more sheen ? ). It's true you can see a bit of shimmer at times on the very brightest parts of the picture on my ST130. Doesn't bother me. Every time I see a Studiotek 100 used for a demo at CES or Cedia, I can tell it's not a ST130 right away. It looks dull to me. And every VW5000 at Cedia on an AT screen looked slightly soft picture wise to me. All 5 of them. I'm used to super sharp and very bright. That's what I like - and it took me a decade to get there ( no projectors were ever bright enough until relatively recently ). Some people prefer better center channel location. You have to pick your poison !

Great post Craig, so true, pick your poison. Understand soft, switched to "uhd" screen for better sharpness, but would love to have center channel higher with AT screen so could hear vocals better, but agree super sharp and bright outweigh.

130 was actually at local dealer, projector mounted high, maybe 9-10 feet and I was standing, so certainly not representative of my home environment. I do have 10 foot ceiling in basement, but my current ceiling mount drops lens to about 7 feet since was considering ALR screen before turning media room into bat cave. It was good angle for ALR and my current seating and projector placement. Sparkles on ALR screen samples in home environment quickly killed "media room" dreams. Also brightness shift. Had 9 samples pinned up at center and screen corners. Light drop off at corners with my close seating was unacceptable.

Currently converting to shelf mount for incoming JVC, lens at 6 feet or lower. Hence willingness to give bright ST 130 another go at some point in future. Especially since even the Rs3000 can't hold a "candel" to the brightness of your rs4500 laser.

Dave
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post #9673 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 06:18 PM
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Sound and vision had a good review. st130 had 10.6% more gain and neve had better light uniformity, 36% vs 42%. I would pick the one that is more important to you.

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post #9675 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
They were never stated as available for sale, late October. When JVC says shipping at the end of october, they always mean arrive at west coast then. At least that is how it has been for the last several years.
"Late" I said for the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like disagreeing with you, Mike, but that's not correct. Or perhaps, I'm misunderstanding something because the plain language of the official News Release notice said as follows: "SAN DIEGO, September 6, 2018 -- JVC today announced a new line of D-ILA projectors that features the company’s newest native 4K D-ILA device and includes the world’s first 8K e-shift home theater projector.

"The new line is comprised of six projectors to be available in October 2018." (Bold Added).

See for yourself: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2018/consu...8_release.html
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post #9676 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I believe Mike Garret stayed it was 24dB in low lamp. A 3dB increase will likely be perceptible but it’s probably not a deal breaker for me since the old 21dB fans were so quiet.

I agree with you as I have a very quiet theater but my projector is mounted on the ceiling over the second row of seats.


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Yes, but the pitch of the noise is less obtrusive and you also no longer have E-shift noise.
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post #9677 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rg4471 View Post
Who and where in Colorado is this Preproduction unit? I would love to have a chance to view this RS3000.
JVC USA has it and has been going around showing it.
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post #9678 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Domcorleone View Post
Craig, I might have a chance to get the Sony 885ES for a real good price. Since you have the 45000 do you think its better for me to go with a Sony laser or the RS3000? Aside from lamp life is there any other inherit benefits to laser projectors?
The 300 has:
Higher native contrast.
Can do 100% of DCI Color space.
Has auto tone mapping.
Lower price.

The 885 has:
Laser.
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post #9679 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post
I hope this isn't the case. Every 3dB increase doubles the volume of fan noise.
What? Something 3db louder is not twice as loud, nor does it sound twice as loud to the ear. It does take twice as much wattage to get a 3db increase in SPL.
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post #9680 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Funny because every time I looked at an ST130 I knew right away it was not an ST100 because of notable sparklies.
Same here. Someone at CEDIA asked what screen was JVC using for the RS3000 demo. I immediately replied that it was an ST130. I could tell from the sparkle. Not that ST130 is bad, it is a great screen, but once you use a screen with zero sparkle, sparkle stands out. Only way an ST100 looks dull or dim would be if compared to an ST130 at the same time, so that the ST130 would be about 30% brighter. You brightness match them and viewers will pick the ST100 every time for best image.
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post #9681 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
"Late" I said for the benefit of the doubt.



I don't like disagreeing with you, Mike, but that's not correct. Or perhaps, I'm misunderstanding something because the plain language of the official News Release notice said as follows: "SAN DIEGO, September 6, 2018 -- JVC today announced a new line of D-ILA projectors that features the company’s newest native 4K D-ILA device and includes the world’s first 8K e-shift home theater projector.



"The new line is comprised of six projectors to be available in October 2018." (Bold Added).



See for yourself: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2018/consu...8_release.html


Mike is in denial on this one . The timing is clear in that memo. Coincidentally it’s ok to miss a deadline if its for the betterment of us consumers. Just means that during the silence some of us may find other unique toys to put some of our $$$ to. I’m sure we will wind up with a JVC we are diehards after all but for me it may be an N5 versus 9. I’ll upgrade later when all the kinks are worked out 100%. Or perhaps the laser little bro to the 4500 is ready.
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post #9682 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
Mike is in denial on this one . The timing is clear in that memo. Coincidentally it’s ok to miss a deadline if its for the betterment of us consumers. Just means that during the silence some of us may find other unique toys to put some of our $$$ to. I’m sure we will wind up with a JVC we are diehards after all but for me it may be an N5 versus 9. I’ll upgrade later when all the kinks are worked out 100%. Or perhaps the laser little bro to the 4500 is ready.
Deadlines are missed by at least a few days. It happens.....
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post #9683 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
"Late" I said for the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like disagreeing with you, Mike, but that's not correct. Or perhaps, I'm misunderstanding something because the plain language of the official News Release notice said as follows: "SAN DIEGO, September 6, 2018 -- JVC today announced a new line of D-ILA projectors that features the company’s newest native 4K D-ILA device and includes the world’s first 8K e-shift home theater projector.

"The new line is comprised of six projectors to be available in October 2018." (Bold Added).

See for yourself: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2018/consu...8_release.html
All I am telling you is this. Every year at CEDIA we ask, when will these be available. We are usually told before end of November. Upon further clarification, this almost always means: Projectors will hit the west coast last day of the month of November. Then the projectors have to go through customs and go through JVC USA QC. This year we were told end of October and as usual, that was arrive at west coast date, not shipping to dealers or shipping to customers date.
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post #9684 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
Mike is in denial on this one . The timing is clear in that memo. Coincidentally it’s ok to miss a deadline if its for the betterment of us consumers. Just means that during the silence some of us may find other unique toys to put some of our $$$ to. I’m sure we will wind up with a JVC we are diehards after all but for me it may be an N5 versus 9. I’ll upgrade later when all the kinks are worked out 100%. Or perhaps the laser little bro to the 4500 is ready.
The N5 seems nice too.
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post #9685 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
Mike is in denial on this one . The timing is clear in that memo. Coincidentally it’s ok to miss a deadline if its for the betterment of us consumers. Just means that during the silence some of us may find other unique toys to put some of our $$$ to. I’m sure we will wind up with a JVC we are diehards after all but for me it may be an N5 versus 9. I’ll upgrade later when all the kinks are worked out 100%. Or perhaps the laser little bro to the 4500 is ready.
JVC's press releases every year is very loose on the term available. If you looked at previous years, you will find that JVC has reported available November and yet every time what is actually happening: that is the date they arrive in the US, not a ship date.
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post #9686 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
JVC's press releases every year is very loose on the term available. If you looked at previous years, you will find that JVC has reported available November and yet every time what is actually happening: that is the date they arrive in the US, not a ship date.


So they aren’t delayed at all then! Or are they? Either way they will get to us at some point.

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post #9687 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
All I am telling you is this. Every year at CEDIA we ask, when will these be available. We are usually told before end of November. Upon further clarification, this almost always means: Projectors will hit the west coast last day of the month of November. Then the projectors have to go through customs and go through JVC USA QC. This year we were told end of October and as usual, that was arrive at west coast date, not shipping to dealers or shipping to customers date.
Believe me, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. It's just that I was looking at that News Release memo, where it said "The new JVC projectors will be available in October at the following prices:
DLA-NX9/DLA-RS3000 $17,999.95
DLA-NX7/DLA-RS2000 $7,999.95
DLA-NX5/DLA-RS1000 $5,999.95" and that led me to think something else. So from what I understand now, it seems you're saying JVC deviated or changed from its standard timeline course of dealing with you to a one-month earlier timeline on these new ones but based on your course of dealing that that still meant hitting west coast on either occasion. Do I have it right now?
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post #9688 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
Do you need the high gain? If yes, no other AT option can compare to the 130 microperf if you have the space for it.

But if you don't need the high gain, the Dreamscreen v6 sold by AVS is the best AT screen. You can't tell the difference between it and a non-AT material from any distance greater than about 18 inches, and because it is woven, the speakers can be placed within an inch or so of the material. Plus, the v6 is going to be way, way, way cheaper than the 130.
My theater is light controlled and totally blacked out with velvet and black acoustic panels for 12ft past the screen. I would probably be okay with the gain of the V6. I like a pretty bright picture though - I do a lot of gaming. The cheaper material would allow room in the budget for a larger size though, and/or motorized masking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
When I bought my V6 about two years ago I researched the topic AT screens a bit. General statements were that for a home theater microperf screens should be avoided because of a) loss in trebble (cinemas use horn speakers with much more power to push high frequencies through the screen) and b) the risk of moiree effects.
Again that was pure research online no testing myself. I can only say that the V6 only marginally alters the high frequencies which can easily be solved with an EQ (I use Dirac Live in my Datasat LS10) and picture quality is outstanding. The lower gain of the V6 I will try to solve with the NX9 (higher light output) and a Paladin DCR lens.
I value sound quality a lot, and I love the highs from the tweeters on my B&Ws, so maybe I can get a sample and see how microperf affects them. This is a great point to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I absolutely love my ( not perf'd ) StudioTek 130 screen. It provides a razor sharp image with just the right amount of gain. That's probably why they are used for projector demos at Cedia so often. I've seen the micro perf version in home theaters and they look very good. Get a sample.

The first thing to do is decide whether you are going with an AT screen or not - sounds like you aren't sure.
Indeed, that's the question! After this discussion, I am leaning towards the ST130 non-perf. I would comprimise on image size, but have maximum image quality, audio quality, and brightness, amongst the options.

Sounds like the first thing to do though is to order some samples and compare them to what I'm used to looking at today. Thanks all for the input!

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post #9689 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The 300 has:
Higher native contrast.
Can do 100% of DCI Color space.
Has auto tone mapping.
Lower price.

The 885 has:
Laser.



How about for Cable/Satellite TV not just movie? The way projectors are used nowadays, they are used more and more for 1080p or 720p TV watching. Are the new JVC projectors as good as a Sony laser 885es when watching, say sports, where black levels are not quite as important? I always thought, the only way JVC was superior to Sony, is if you had a bat cave. Black walls..ect.. Is that not the case in more? Just curious.
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post #9690 of 13653 Old 11-25-2018, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
So they aren’t delayed at all then! Or are they? Either way they will get to us at some point.
They are delayed. We were told at CEDIA that projectors would arrive in October. Based on that info, we told people that we thought they would get them first or second week of November. Then that got moved to arrive end of November. Now we are still waiting for a new date.
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