NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 404 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12091 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
JVC did two refreshes with the last series. So, I guess if they begin filling 2018's orders early in 2019, maybe they will have refresh models in late 2019, and if that happens, I think it will be better for me to just wait to get the refresh/latest and greatest at that point. But if JVC's filling 2018's orders goes from say March into June of 2019, then my guess is they may not have a refresh in 2019, but of course I could be wrong.
I give that a 1% chance of happening. When the 400, 500 and 600 came out, they were groundbreaking new models. Sold like hotcakes. The following year, very small changes were made. The 1000, 2000 and 3000 are again groundbreaking new models and once again selling like hotcakes. History says the 2019 models will have small changes. Has any projector company ever brought out groundbreaking changes two years in a row, I don't think so.
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post #12092 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Well suffice to say I don't think JVC would be moving ahead if the issue has not been 100% resolved whichever way that they have gone about things, whether duct-tape and superglue are involved or otherwise

Either way, JVC are aware that certain folks, such as myself, will be carrying out in-depth evaluation and analysis, which will indubitably reveal if there are any technical performance issues; so quite frankly I consider it to be almost certain that JVC has indeed 100% fixed the issue.

Seriously, if you were JVC would you risk going into mass production and announcing to the world that you've fixed the problem if you were not absolutely sure that you had in fact done so?

Either way, you should pop round as and when I receive delivery of my units James; wherein you will be more than welcome to partake in some such in-depth evaluation and analysis if you like. I will even lend you usage of my extra large magnifying glass for such purposes



Hehe, looking forward to it.

I'm sure they do have a good handle on this issue and I don't doubt they've got a good solution that works. I've been in the situation they've found themselves in and I have seen the gaffer tape . They've had to all intents a lucky escape it seems as I'm guessing from the sequence of events that this issue could have quite possibly made it through the cracks if that butterfly had farted left instead of right...!

In hardware land when there are 1000 boards already made they will often receive what won't be the true eventual production fix (it might well be logically the same, but not optimally applied for production / test / manufacturing standards quality purposes). But of course, woe betide them releasing something that doesn't hit the mark, so I'm sure whatever they have done will have addressed this issue to an acceptable level.

My comments about sitting this one out aren't really about this one issue; I'm as excited as the next person, and in fact I really don't think it makes much sense at the moment to be laying down what is still a big chunk of money on last year's models given the overall potential for improvement in the experience, there is a lot that is quite wrong (or better, suboptimal) with the outgoing model chassis...

There are plenty of folk in this game for whom the outlay on these PJs isn't that significant an investment, and installers who will put them in by default as they are the projector that is available when a job is being put in, I'm happy for them and looking forward to seeing what they think. But folk like me, who has a recent highish end unit (X7900 with Lumagen Pro) in a good room and for whom this represents quite the investment (beans instead of caviar on toast for a couple of months :-p ); maybe it's not a bad idea to pause for thought and think - can I scratch my upgrade itch with something else in my system, and pick up one of these once the rough edges have been knocked off a bit?

But in any case, I'm sure the folk who end up with them will be very pleased.
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post #12093 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
JVC did two refreshes with the last series. So, I guess if they begin filling 2018's orders early in 2019, maybe they will have refresh models in late 2019, and if that happens, I think it will be better for me to just wait to get the refresh/latest and greatest at that point. But if JVC's filling 2018's orders goes from say March into June of 2019, then my guess is they may not have a refresh in 2019, but of course I could be wrong.
Agreed. I recently purchased an X790R for $3800 when JVC released their new lowered pricing. I'm betting similar occurs when these NX replacements/refreshes happen at some point within the next 18 months.

I hope that eventually, the form factor of these NX series projectors become smaller. The X790R just BARELY fit into my projector lift. An NX won't
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post #12094 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
JVC did two refreshes with the last series. So, I guess if they begin filling 2018's orders early in 2019, maybe they will have refresh models in late 2019, and if that happens, I think it will be better for me to just wait to get the refresh/latest and greatest at that point. But if JVC's filling 2018's orders goes from say March into June of 2019, then my guess is they may not have a refresh in 2019, but of course I could be wrong.

Remember when the Rsx20 series came out, it was during CES about 1.5 years after the first generation. JVC attempted to improve some of the short comings at a lower price. So, I'm guessing nothing at CEDIA 2019 because it would be too short of a turnaround. Maybe a lower price on the rs3000/nx9 at CEDIA 2019 or a laser version. I highly doubt a change with the rs1000/nx5 and rs2000/nx7 at CEDIA 2019.
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post #12095 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
Remember when the Rsx20 series came out, it was during CES about 1.5 years after the first generation. JVC attempted to improve some of the short comings at a lower price. So, I'm guessing nothing at CEDIA 2019 because it would be too short of a turnaround. Maybe a lower price on the rs3000/nx9 at CEDIA 2019 or a laser version. I highly doubt a change with the rs1000/nx5 and rs2000/nx7 at CEDIA 2019.
They will probably keep this lineup with small updates next year. At next CEDIA (or earlier) I would expect to see a RS4500 update with either native or eshift 8k. It is doubtful they will drop prices any time soon in the US, unless Sony does so first.
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post #12096 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stummala View Post
Agreed. I recently purchased an X790R for $3800 when JVC released their new lowered pricing. I'm betting similar occurs when these NX replacements/refreshes happen at some point within the next 18 months.

I hope that eventually, the form factor of these NX series projectors become smaller. The X790R just BARELY fit into my projector lift. An NX won't
I think you'll be waiting a long time; the last chassis design has lasted 8 years and counting. There's little to drive making them smaller. In fact, quite the opposite... "Woaaa look at the size of that! Big projector, too..." :-p
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post #12097 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by stummala View Post
I'm betting similar occurs when these NX replacements/refreshes happen at some point within the next 18 months.
I doubt JVC drops the price much on these new projectors or their refresh. The reason for the big price drop on the eshift series is because they are being replaced by native 4k. Eventually e-shift will disappear from the market unless it is e-shift 8k.

The native 4k projectors should hold their price for awhile. Just look at how little Sony has changed pricing on their native 4k line over the years.
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post #12098 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 11:15 AM
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They will probably keep this lineup with small updates next year. At next CEDIA (or earlier) I would expect to see a RS4500 update with either native or eshift 8k. It is doubtful they will drop prices any time soon in the US, unless Sony does so first.
JVC has a strict no update rule with models that are in customers hands.
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post #12099 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 12:04 PM
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I give that a 1% chance of happening. When the 400, 500 and 600 came out, they were groundbreaking new models. Sold like hotcakes. The following year, very small changes were made. The 1000, 2000 and 3000 are again groundbreaking new models and once again selling like hotcakes. History says the 2019 models will have small changes. Has any projector company ever brought out groundbreaking changes two years in a row, I don't think so.
Hotcakes? How many of the N7s would be sold in the US do u think? (Your best estimate.)

Here in Norway the N7 will sell 1 per 1 million citizens. We have population of 5 million and it will sell probaly 3-5 units of the N7.

Will it sell 100, 1000 or 10000 in the US?

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post #12100 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 12:09 PM
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JVC has a strict no update rule with models that are in customers hands.
What is that supposed to mean? For some reason they can't release a new laser PJ with 8k shift?
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post #12101 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 12:11 PM
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Hotcakes? How many of the N7s would be sold in the US do u think? (Your best estimate.)

Here in Norway the N7 will sell 1 per 1 million citizens. We have population of 5 million and it will sell probaly 3-5 units of the N7.

Will it sell 100, 1000 or 10000 in the US?
It would be interesting to know how many units are sold in the USA. I would bet something around 2000 units of the N5/N7/N9 combined in a year. Mike is probably the best equipped person outside of JVC to give a ballpark number if he is allowed to.
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post #12102 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 12:18 PM
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It would be interesting to know how many units are sold in the USA. I would bet something around 2000 units of the N5/N7/N9 combined in a year. Mike is probably the best equipped person outside of JVC to give a ballpark number if he is allowed to.
I doubt it. I would expect sales to be more like 20,000 - 50,000 in a year for the entire RS1000, 2000, 3000 line in the US.
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post #12103 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 12:47 PM
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What is that supposed to mean? For some reason they can't release a new laser PJ with 8k shift?
I thought you meant that JVC will update the newly released models in 2019. In the past, JVC will just release a new model instead of updating and improving the previous models.
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post #12104 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 01:05 PM
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I thought you meant that JVC will update the newly released models in 2019. In the past, JVC will just release a new model instead of updating and improving the previous models.
However, JVC has released new firmware to add features or improve on existing features. Sony on the other hand rarely if ever does any kind of firmware update.
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post #12105 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 01:18 PM
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This is actually very near to how madVR's "NGU Sharp" algorithm was designed: It tries to undo/revert a 4K -> 2K downscale in the best possible way. There's zero artificial sharpening going on. The algo is just looking at the 2K downscale and then tries to take a best guess at how the original 4K image might have looked like, by throwing lots and lots of GLOPS on the task. The core part of the whole algo is a neural network (AI) which was carefully trained to "guess" the original 4K image, given only the 2K image. The training of such a neural network works by feeding it with both the downscaled 2K and the original 4K image, and then the training automatically analyzes what the neural network does and how much its output differs from the original 4K image, and then applies small corrections to the neural network to get nearer to the ideal results. This training is done hundreds of thousands of times, over and over again.

Sadly, if a video wasn't actually downscaled from 4K -> 2K, but is actually a native 2K source, the algorithm doesn't produce as good results as otherwise, but it's usually still noticably better than conventional upscaling algorithms.
Madshi - For NGU, would the 1080 Ti better than the newer GTX 2070 (lower price point), as the 1080 Ti has more CUDA cores? Just wondering which GPU architecture is better for NGU. The 2070 is about the same speed as the GTX 1080 (non Ti) for game benchmarks. However the 2070 is behind the 1080 Ti for games.
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post #12106 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stummala View Post
Agreed. I recently purchased an X790R for $3800 when JVC released their new lowered pricing. I'm betting similar occurs when these NX replacements/refreshes happen at some point within the next 18 months.

I hope that eventually, the form factor of these NX series projectors become smaller. The X790R just BARELY fit into my projector lift. An NX won't
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I think you'll be waiting a long time; the last chassis design has lasted 8 years and counting. There's little to drive making them smaller. In fact, quite the opposite... "Woaaa look at the size of that! Big projector, too..." :-p
Yup. And we know what JVC will eventually be using that extra chassis space for, don't we?



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post #12107 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
65" under $1,000, I would look at Vizio 65" P-series and the 65" TCL 6 series.
Vizio: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/p-series-2018
TCL: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tc...ries-2018-r617
Thanks Mike, if I were to go to the next level of about $1,500 +/-, what would you recommend? On the two above units, the Vizio and TCL, how are they for longevity and service? My Samsung has been pretty good overall. I just started seeing brightness changing like the DI pumping that folks have been talking about with their projectors.
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I doubt it. I would expect sales to be more like 20,000 - 50,000 in a year for the entire RS1000, 2000, 3000 line in the US.
Where do you get the number from? I'm yet to see any month where there was an X7900 or X790 serial number above 500 in the broken iris stakes that I was tracking.
If folk have a JVC PJ they can quote the last 4 digits of their SN and we can have a guess, it's not difficult to work out...
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post #12109 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 02:01 PM
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Thanks Mike, if I were to go to the next level of about $1,500 +/-, what would you recommend? On the two above units, the Vizio and TCL, how are they for longevity and service? My Samsung has been pretty good overall. I just started seeing brightness changing like the DI pumping that folks have been talking about with their projectors.
I'd take a strong look at the Vizio PQ in that price range. Read the thread on it of course to see what you're getting into - but I have one and love it. I also have a regular P series that Mike suggested.
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post #12110 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 03:35 PM
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I'd take a strong look at the Vizio PQ in that price range. Read the thread on it of course to see what you're getting into - but I have one and love it. I also have a regular P series that Mike suggested.
I currently have 3 TCL sets of varying size (up to 65") and love their Roku operating system. They have all behaved flawlessly and the new R series has been even better reviewed than the stellar P series. I hated the Vizio operating system on my 60" UHD model due to the extremely limited remote (and the need to use iOs or Android to access full system control) and, for a model built 2 years ago, streaming access which was not very user friendly. I was happy to sell it a few months ago. Perhaps the new Vizio models have improved on my user experience, but I'd always opt for TCL, especially with the fact that they are are aggressively priced and compatible with Dolby Vision.
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post #12111 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 03:48 PM
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I currently have 3 TCL sets of varying size (up to 65") and love their Roku operating system. They have all behaved flawlessly and the new R series has been even better reviewed than the stellar P series. I hated the Vizio operating system on my 60" UHD model due to the extremely limited remote (and the need to use iOs or Android to access full system control) and, for a model built 2 years ago, streaming access which was not very user friendly. I was happy to sell it a few months ago. Perhaps the new Vizio models have improved on my user experience, but I'd always opt for TCL, especially with the fact that they are are aggressively priced and compatible with Dolby Vision.
I enjoy using the Vizio models due to 120hz native panel - and I pair it with an ATV4K. I don't use any of the onboard applications. Everything has worked flawlessly for me. I seem to remember Rtings rating the Vizio over the TCL.

The new P series and PQ series have stellar reviews - especially the PQ series.

Looking at the threads - there is a panel lottery like any TV - perhaps I lucked out. I know a lot of people have had trouble with the P75 - I have a P65 and PQ65 that I've never had trouble with.

I'd buy another PQ in a heartbeat. The brightness and HDR on it is insane. It feels like I'm hallucinating watching Infinity War. It almost made me buy one over a projector for my media room. In fact if they had the PQ in a larger size than a 65 - I might have done just that.
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post #12112 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
JVC did two refreshes with the last series. So, I guess if they begin filling 2018's orders early in 2019, maybe they will have refresh models in late 2019, and if that happens, I think it will be better for me to just wait to get the refresh/latest and greatest at that point. But if JVC's filling 2018's orders goes from say March into June of 2019, then my guess is they may not have a refresh in 2019, but of course I could be wrong.
Even if there's a refresh in November, that's still 10-11 months out. Life is literally too short to be waiting on the next thing that may come out. Look at the differences between the RS600 and RS620. They were pretty insignificant minus game mode. From the RS620 to RS640 also pretty insigificant changes. Nothing major is coming christmas 2019 this round.

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But folk like me, who has a recent highish end unit (X7900 with Lumagen Pro) in a good room and for whom this represents quite the investment (beans instead of caviar on toast for a couple of months :-p ); maybe it's not a bad idea to pause for thought and think - can I scratch my upgrade itch with something else in my system, and pick up one of these once the rough edges have been knocked off a bit?
If I didnt play games constantly and only sit 7 feet from my screen, I'd probably stick with that combo you listed for many years.


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Madshi - For NGU, would the 1080 Ti better than the newer GTX 2070 (lower price point), as the 1080 Ti has more CUDA cores? Just wondering which GPU architecture is better for NGU. The 2070 is about the same speed as the GTX 1080 (non Ti) for game benchmarks. However the 2070 is behind the 1080 Ti for games.
FYI, I use a 1080ti. But I set my friend up with a 1070 and it does just as well on upscaling. So I think either a 1080ti or 2070 will be fine. The only downside is that with the 2070 you cannot use older windows 10 drivers which seem to be more stable for video playback modes (correctly setting limited vs full etc). But there's a good chance that's solved anyway.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #12113 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 04:22 PM
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Where do you get the number from? I'm yet to see any month where there was an X7900 or X790 serial number above 500 in the broken iris stakes that I was tracking.
If folk have a JVC PJ they can quote the last 4 digits of their SN and we can have a guess, it's not difficult to work out...
My local dealer told me that he sales about 50 projectors a year in our area of 50,000. Thats a ratio of 1:1000. So in a country of 350 Million that would be about 350,000 projectors a year. My guess is that commercial projectors sell at a lot higher percentage and then you have a lot of the cheap DLP projectors. Sony probably out sells JVC 5 to 1 or more.

Even taking all that into consideration, JVC is releasing 3 new models and a year of sales for all 3 models should be at least 20,000. If it is a good year possibly 50,000. That would be roughly 1/17th to 1/7th of the market.
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post #12114 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 06:05 PM
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Been off this thread for a few weeks so I don't know if this has been reported or not.

However, my dealer has let me know the following...


JVC is now moving forward with mass production on their JVC-DILA projectors.


If this has already been posted, my apologies. I have been away.
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post #12115 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 06:10 PM
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Madshi - For NGU, would the 1080 Ti better than the newer GTX 2070 (lower price point), as the 1080 Ti has more CUDA cores? Just wondering which GPU architecture is better for NGU. The 2070 is about the same speed as the GTX 1080 (non Ti) for game benchmarks. However the 2070 is behind the 1080 Ti for games.
If you upgrade your GPU now, I'd recommend going with the 20xx range, for reasons I don't want to talk about right now.
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post #12116 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 06:28 PM
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So has there been any head to head between the x970/x990, etc. and these new projectors yet? Or are we still waiting for then to arrive?
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post #12117 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you upgrade your GPU now, I'd recommend going with the 20xx range, for reasons I don't want to talk about right now.
Do want to discuss more but is the reason in a thread somewhere? Curious to see the benefits.
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post #12118 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I doubt JVC drops the price much on these new projectors or their refresh. The reason for the big price drop on the eshift series is because they are being replaced by native 4k. Eventually e-shift will disappear from the market unless it is e-shift 8k.

The native 4k projectors should hold their price for awhile. Just look at how little Sony has changed pricing on their native 4k line over the years.
Going from $15,000 to around $10,000 on the 6xx/5xx series is a pretty big drop, though.
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post #12119 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I think you'll be waiting a long time; the last chassis design has lasted 8 years and counting. There's little to drive making them smaller. In fact, quite the opposite... "Woaaa look at the size of that! Big projector, too..." :-p
I can tell you this, while you're right about the 'wow' factor, bigger is better psychology... but nowadays, a lot of ppl actually have to measure the place they have to place the projector.. esp the height of these projectors make them impossible for me to put on the tray i already have... so, i for one would not be able to get one even if i wanted to... the bigger your projector gets, the smaller the market for it... don't forget, not everyone has a $100K room build with the size, etc...

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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I doubt JVC drops the price much on these new projectors or their refresh. The reason for the big price drop on the eshift series is because they are being replaced by native 4k. Eventually e-shift will disappear from the market unless it is e-shift 8k.

The native 4k projectors should hold their price for awhile. Just look at how little Sony has changed pricing on their native 4k line over the years.
Not true.. They went from $25K to $4k in just a few years in their 4K lineup... When Sony came out with the 1000ES, I said I'll wait 2-3 years for the price to drop to 4K street... everyone one the forum went berserk saying it's impossible... that the lens needed for 4K is what's going to keep the price skyhigh... of course that's all nonsense... we now see 4K projectors (native) at the 4K price... and once there are 3rd party manufacturers for 4K chips, and every company in the world can make a 4K projector, you'll see price drops drastically... it's called the technology S-Curve... initially things move slot, but it'll be a geometric growth as soon as competition gets into the space... not a linear process... right now, we are at the cusp of 2k going 4k in the projector world.. a couple years back that was the TV world... and nowadays, you can get a 4K TV for cheaper than you can get a 2K tv just a few years back...
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post #12120 of 13653 Old 12-22-2018, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
I can tell you this, while you're right about the 'wow' factor, bigger is better psychology... but nowadays, a lot of ppl actually have to measure the place they have to place the projector.. esp the height of these projectors make them impossible for me to put on the tray i already have... so, i for one would not be able to get one even if i wanted to... the bigger your projector gets, the smaller the market for it... don't forget, not everyone has a $100K room build with the size, etc...



Not true.. They went from $25K to $4k in just a few years in their 4K lineup... When Sony came out with the 1000ES, I said I'll wait 2-3 years for the price to drop to 4K street... everyone one the forum went berserk saying it's impossible... that the lens needed for 4K is what's going to keep the price skyhigh... of course that's all nonsense... we now see 4K projectors (native) at the 4K price... and once there are 3rd party manufacturers for 4K chips, and every company in the world can make a 4K projector, you'll see price drops drastically... it's called the technology S-Curve... initially things move slot, but it'll be a geometric growth as soon as competition gets into the space... not a linear process... right now, we are at the cusp of 2k going 4k in the projector world.. a couple years back that was the TV world... and nowadays, you can get a 4K TV for cheaper than you can get a 2K tv just a few years back...
The VW1000 is not the same projector as the VW285, any more than a Yugo is the same car and a BMW or Lexus. And there is no economy of scale for home theater projectors. In fact, look how many brands have dropped out of the home theater projector market in the last 10 years and disappeared. Maybe native 4K projection will trickle down to Epson PC 4050 prices eventually. That would be great. But don't expect a RS3000 quality lens at that price - ever. Good glass never goes down in price.
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