NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 415 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12421 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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post #12422 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post
I remember back in the RS1 days, people who felt the image was too bright used neutral density filters...I'm curious if this would still be an option for those going with the RS1000/NX5.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread - at the demo I was at a few weeks ago, the N5 was at a short throw and the screen was maybe 8ft wide. The black level seemed quite raised to me (similar to the entry level eshift demo I'd attended), even with the iris at -15 so for me, I would want to add an ND filter. However, you may want all the brightness you can get for HDR. in which case you may want to put the filter on a slide or make it easily removable when going from BD to UHD for example.

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post #12423 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
I'm up for a single thread too. I'd imagine that the number of RS1000/N5 owners will be few compared to the RS2000/RS3000.
Makes me wonder which member is going to be the first ??
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post #12424 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
Can some of the experts in all things JVC describe and comment on the differences between the RS 3000 vs. RS2000 - on paper at least. I know the RS2000 has been absent at all the venues. That's why I'm interested in the theoretical differences. I view the 8K e shift as a non issue due to the handling of native 4K sources that are upscaled to 8K to then be E shifted. Maybe I'm wrong on that point, so correct me if I'm wrong.
besides the e-shift, it's primarily the lens, some extra brightness and extra contrast as well. The reality of the brightness / contrast advantage is TBD until production models land and are properly calibrated / measured.

a test I'd like to see is the RS2000 vs RS3000 in a lens center comparison. meaning minimal lens shift on both models. This is how I run my RS600 (shelf mount, projector is dead center to screen) and has sharp focus from corner to corner on my 142" screen.

I went with the RS2000 as I think it will be the best bang for the buck for features (dual iris + full P3 support vs. RS1000). Plus there is a chance we may see a laser update in this chassis in ~2 years so this price point is more palatable while they are still using lamps.
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post #12425 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
besides the e-shift, it's primarily the lens, some extra brightness and extra contrast as well. The reality of the brightness / contrast advantage is TBD until production models land and are properly calibrated / measured.

a test I'd like to see is the RS2000 vs RS3000 in a lens center comparison. meaning minimal lens shift on both models. This is how I run my RS600 (shelf mount, projector is dead center to screen) and has sharp focus from corner to corner on my 142" screen.

I went with the RS2000 as I think it will be the best bang for the buck for features (dual iris + full P3 support vs. RS1000). Plus there is a chance we may see a laser update in this chassis in ~2 years so this price point is more palatable while they are still using lamps.
If your dead center I'm thinking the RS2000 is the better bang for the buck because it should resolve 4k end to end being centered on the flat part of the lens. RS3000 light advantage is pretty nice though but I suppose you could supplement that with a Paladin and get even more brightness for about the same price.

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post #12426 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 08:53 AM
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I'm a bit confused about wide color gamut support on the NX5. I've seen people post that it can only do about 90%, and NX7/9 can do 103% DCI-P3. I also saw in the specs, specific mention of "wide color gamut" for the 7/9 models, but it didnt say that for the 5. Now the question is this... in the menu, will there be an ability to select wide color gamut, or is this only for the 7/9? My LG OLED from 2 yrs ago probably can't do 100% DCI-P3 but it does have a wide color gamut selection.... want to know if NX5 has that option
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post #12427 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 09:01 AM
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The wide color gamut in the 7/9 (100%+ DCI-P3) is achieved by a filter which also reduces brightness somewhat. The 5 does not have the filter and thus does only about 90% DCI-P3.
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post #12428 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post
I'm a bit confused about wide color gamut support on the NX5. I've seen people post that it can only do about 90%, and NX7/9 can do 103% DCI-P3. I also saw in the specs, specific mention of "wide color gamut" for the 7/9 models, but it didnt say that for the 5. Now the question is this... in the menu, will there be an ability to select wide color gamut, or is this only for the 7/9? My LG OLED from 2 yrs ago probably can't do 100% DCI-P3 but it does have a wide color gamut selection.... want to know if NX5 has that option
The NX5 will only do about 90% of the DCI-P3 color gamut. This is the same as all the Sony 4K models. The NX7 & NX9 have a color filter that will boost the color space to 103% of DCI-P3 but at the expense of reducing total light output about 25%.

I am not sure what the Wide Color Gamut option does on your LG Oled but the NX5 will still support HDR10 BT 2020 color space input. However it can only reproduce about 90% of DCI-P3. I think Full DCI-P3 is about 70% smaller than full BT. 2020 color.

I would bet that your LG Oled does reproduce full DCI-P3 because oled has good color reproduction.
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post #12429 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
If your dead center I'm thinking the RS2000 is the better bang for the buck because it should resolve 4k end to end being centered on the flat part of the lens. RS3000 light advantage is pretty nice though but I suppose you could supplement that with a Paladin and get even more brightness for about the same price.
That's what i'm hoping to see since the center is typically the best part of a lens. In my setup, I definitely don't need the extra bit of light With the projector around ~1 foot above eye level i'm getting near max gain from this large 2.8HP screen. I have ~1800 hours on the RS600, run low lamp for HDR and it still looks very bright.
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post #12430 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
That's what i'm hoping to see since the center is typically the best part of a lens. In my setup, I definitely don't need the extra bit of light With the projector around ~1 foot above eye level i'm getting near max gain from this large 2.8HP screen. I have ~1800 hours on the RS600, run low lamp for HDR and it still looks very bright.
Zombie if your proj is dead centre of the screen doesnt the light beam get blocked everytime someone moves or stands up to move?

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post #12431 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 10:35 AM
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Zombie if your proj is dead centre of the screen doesnt the light beam get blocked everytime someone moves or stands up to move?
He has his kids trained to stay low.
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post #12432 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post
I'm a bit confused about wide color gamut support on the NX5. I've seen people post that it can only do about 90%, and NX7/9 can do 103% DCI-P3. I also saw in the specs, specific mention of "wide color gamut" for the 7/9 models, but it didnt say that for the 5. Now the question is this... in the menu, will there be an ability to select wide color gamut, or is this only for the 7/9? My LG OLED from 2 yrs ago probably can't do 100% DCI-P3 but it does have a wide color gamut selection.... want to know if NX5 has that option
In the NX7/9 menu you can select the BT.2020 Colour Profile (103% DCI-P3). In the NX5 menu you can only select the HDR Colour Profile, which gives you 90% of DCI-P3.
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post #12433 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 11:33 AM
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Zombie if your proj is dead centre of the screen doesnt the light beam get blocked everytime someone moves or stands up to move?
I just yell " down in front " and take away their wine glass. Then they don't have to get up to pee after that.
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post #12434 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 11:36 AM
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Zombie if your proj is dead centre of the screen doesnt the light beam get blocked everytime someone moves or stands up to move?
I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.

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post #12435 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 11:45 AM
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He has his kids trained to stay low.
yes.. the trigger word is 'subwoofer crawl' and they know exactly what to do..
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post #12436 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 11:56 AM
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I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.

I would want the best projector on all the time for everyone

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post #12437 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 12:04 PM
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I would want the best projector on all the time for everyone
We watch more than movies in my HT room so if it's a sport event I will usually run the top shelf DLP's which excel for that kind of content.

it's not really a big deal in trade for the intense brightness I get from the HP screen which benefits HDR and 3D.
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post #12438 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.

What rack or shelfs are those? I see about 60-70lbs per shelf so they must be strong.
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post #12439 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
That's what i'm hoping to see since the center is typically the best part of a lens. In my setup, I definitely don't need the extra bit of light With the projector around ~1 foot above eye level i'm getting near max gain from this large 2.8HP screen. I have ~1800 hours on the RS600, run low lamp for HDR and it still looks very bright.
I can imagine - how many nits are you getting?
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post #12440 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 03:09 PM
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I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.

Love this picture! I showed it to my wife with the editorial comment that this proves how reasonable and restrained I am in just wanting to replace our one projector with the NX7
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post #12441 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.
That is a sweet set up, so are one of those units going away when the JVC comes in?

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Love this picture! I showed it to my wife with the editorial comment that this proves how reasonable and restrained I am in just wanting to replace our one projector with the NX7
LOL, right on.
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post #12442 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 04:26 PM
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I have a 3 tier rack and run a top shelf projector if we have a number of guests over which doesn't cause interference when folks are walking around.
How do you manage that? I had a hard enough time running 2 projectors (sony 675es and jvc rs640). The JVC could do full 18gb and the sony only 13.5gb hdmi so the edid was different. The sony broadcasts its edid when off so it was problematic to get my JVC to link RGB 4k/60 (for example). I ended up installing a bunch of wifi power dongles and writing pc software to automatically power on and off projectors as needed which solved the problem (pretty much). I imagine some of those are 4k others 1080p so the problem is even worse and you'd have to use some mutli port splitters which fowl things up as well. For only 2 projectors I could just run 2 HDMI runs from my anthem and didnt even need a splitter.

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post #12443 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post
I remember back in the RS1 days, people who felt the image was too bright used neutral density filters...I'm curious if this would still be an option for those going with the RS1000/NX5.
ND filter not recommended. Unlike some of the higher end DLPs I've owned (and tested with ND filter), the JVC lens is not threaded. That makes proper fit and alignment to avoid reflections and ghosting difficult. Filters also hurt what is already a very low ANSI contrast. As Gary pointed out, in the age of HDR, it's also a pain to install/remove. If you own the HP screen, you owe it to yourself to get the dual-iris models - both for fine tuning brightness and to take advantage of the increased on/off contrast potential afforded by the high gain. Owners with dimmer screens usually can't clamp the iris as much and have to resort to dynamic iris and associated issues.
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post #12444 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
It was still there on the N5 I saw a few weeks ago. I wasn't looking for it but there was a test pattern on screen and the pulsating caught my attention straight away.
Just to make sure we're on the same page, Toe and I are talking about an irregular random brightness fluctuation. Not a regular/constant flicker you would get from a low refresh rate display - for example 50 or 60 Hz CRT. Also not referring to any image pixel-level noise from the typical JVC color dithering algorithm.

The best video camera capture of the issue I've seen was done in this old post.

Can you confirm if this is what you saw on the N5?
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post #12445 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 05:08 PM
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What rack or shelfs are those? I see about 60-70lbs per shelf so they must be strong.
This is the model I picked up a few years ago. I like it because it has all the flat edges vs. the typical model with the loop holes exposed. very strong no issues holding even the VW1100.

I have it mostly wrapped in velvet now so the projectors look like they are floating in space.

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I can imagine - how many nits are you getting?
Dave hi I will get a lumen check over weekend and let you know. if I go in high lamp it's time for the sunglasses.

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That is a sweet set up, so are one of those units going away when the JVC comes in?
Sony's are no longer here.. 2 DLP's + RS600 stay + RS2000. 4 projectors in one room makes perfect sense.
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post #12446 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 05:42 PM
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Very happy to go with the majority view... What does everyone else think? One owners thread for all models or keep split into two threads as per historically?


One thread, to rule them all.
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post #12447 of 13653 Old 12-28-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Just to make sure we're on the same page, Toe and I are talking about an irregular random brightness fluctuation. Not a regular/constant flicker you would get from a low refresh rate display - for example 50 or 60 Hz CRT. Also not referring to any image pixel-level noise from the typical JVC color dithering algorithm.

The best video camera capture of the issue I've seen was done in this old post.

Can you confirm if this is what you saw on the N5?
It was similar to the video I guess, but a more pronounced, and appeared to be on one part of the test pattern.

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post #12448 of 13653 Old 12-29-2018, 07:12 AM
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ND filter not recommended. Unlike some of the higher end DLPs I've owned (and tested with ND filter), the JVC lens is not threaded. That makes proper fit and alignment to avoid reflections and ghosting difficult. Filters also hurt what is already a very low ANSI contrast. As Gary pointed out, in the age of HDR, it's also a pain to install/remove. If you own the HP screen, you owe it to yourself to get the dual-iris models - both for fine tuning brightness and to take advantage of the increased on/off contrast potential afforded by the high gain. Owners with dimmer screens usually can't clamp the iris as much and have to resort to dynamic iris and associated issues.
Although filters can have an effect on ANSI CR (usually very small), good quality ones like Hoya HMC coated filters are invisible and don't affect the image in a visible way other than as intended. Most peoples rooms have a far bigger impact on the image - even 'batcaves' that have reflective surfaces and/or painted walls.

Overall I think they add more than they take away. With an ND, depending on the screen size, luminance and how that effects your eyes, an ND can give the impression of reducing the black level more than the white level, even though in real terms it's reducing them both equally. Colour correction filters can further increase the native CR of a pj, but that requires recalibration to achieve that. In some cases you can even get back the lumens you lost by adding the filter because the recal increases the blue and green energy enough that end up with the same amount of lumens you had without the filter at D65.

I think sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the knowledge of things (such as the impact on ANSI) rather then what we actually see.

The only filters that I've seen have a visibly negative effect on an image are the plastic and resin ones. The really bad ones make the image look kinda milky.
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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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My HT room plan places the NX7 about two feet behind and about 3 feet above the MLP. Should I be worried about fan noise? Throw distance will be about 10' on a 92" 0.8 gain screen, so I'm not sure I'm going to need to run it in high lamp mode.

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post #12450 of 13653 Old 12-29-2018, 08:12 AM
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...and in the brightness blind them?
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JVC-RS540, 124" Wide 2.40:1 DIY Screen, Denon 8500H, Denon 6200W, Panasonic UB820 UHD Player, (3) iNuke 6000DSP; (2) iNuke NX3000D; (3) HTM-12; (14) RSL C34e surrounds; (2) 18" DA RSS460HO-4 Subwoofers; (1) DA UM18-22 18" Ultimax Subwoofer; (4) DA RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofers; BOSS Platform - (12) 12" Subwoofers
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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eshift , Jvc , native 4k , projector , uhd

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