NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 429 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12841 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Huh? Even my former RS4910 got full 709 coverage in low lamp with no filter. All delta errors under 1.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...HZxRjJBQWE0WUk

My RS440 is very similar:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ea...YZlmxvGpiLAy3a

In high lamp, with no filter, P3 coverage is very good. Not all points reach 100% saturation, but that is more important for animation (which I don't watch). I think some are sweating too much over not using a P3 filter when it comes to films. In my opinion, going for maximum light output will be more beneficial.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vI...6UaTAr4Vxwd78B
Neither of those have a switchable cinema filter, do they?
I think the optic block setup is slightly different between the units with the filter and without; that the units without the filter have a change in the optic block which gets you closer to REC709 but costs a little light, which isn't a problem given the spec on those units.

Both the RS540s I've had fall short of REC709 in low lamp with the filter out of circuit, but are closer in high lamp. My original X3 was better for reaching REC709.
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post #12842 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Neither of those have a switchable cinema filter, do they?
I think the optic block setup is slightly different between the units with the filter and without; that the units without the filter have a change in the optic block which gets you closer to REC709 but costs a little light, which isn't a problem given the spec on those units.

Both the RS540s I've had fall short of REC709 in low lamp with the filter out of circuit, but are closer in high lamp. My original X3 was better for reaching REC709.
Correct, no filter. I did pull up my RS500 report with rec 709 and the filter not engaged - used in low lamp. It did very nicely.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...WhyeDNvTmtENGs
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post #12843 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Correct, no filter. I did pull up my RS500 report with rec 709 and the filter not engaged - used in low lamp. It did very nicely.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...WhyeDNvTmtENGs
Unless I'm mistaken... without the filter it is coming up a little bit short on green . x 0.3056 y 0.5980.
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post #12844 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
The numbers are derived from a preseries NX9 that was shown at an event that I have attended here in Switzerland. So I can tell that it had 214h on. The native contrast measuements were taken before the public event started. The ANSI value was determined in the evening between the 2 event days (according to Ekki). The NX9 had better black floor than the 995 and 885 but was also dimmer. So the native contrast numbers make sense to me. The ANSI as well btw
I will take that bet. I have already talked to calibrators and gotten measurements on more than one 995 and none of them beat 1,870 calibrated lumens. When I say calibrated, I mean a de of less than 3. I am not counting, going into the service menus and moving the white point and such nonsense to get max lumens.

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post #12845 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Unless I'm mistaken... without the filter it is coming up a little bit short on green . x 0.3056 y 0.5980.
Considering a delta error under 1 is undetectable by the eye, I guess I never considered it short.
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post #12846 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
In high lamp, with no filter, P3 coverage is very good. Not all points reach 100% saturation, but that is more important for animation (which I don't watch). I think some are sweating too much over not using a P3 filter when it comes to films. In my opinion, going for maximum light output will be more beneficial.
The with-/without-filter comparison shows a noticeable difference in gamut:
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post #12847 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
In high lamp, with no filter, P3 coverage is very good. Not all points reach 100% saturation, but that is more important for animation (which I don't watch). I think some are sweating too much over not using a P3 filter when it comes to films. In my opinion, going for maximum light output will be more beneficial.
The with-/without-filter comparison shows a noticeable difference in gamut:

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post #12848 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The gaming remote is much better than the included remote. It's a must have if you aren't using a 3rd party remote.
Can the shield handle blu-ray menu's? And is it the best media player to get with the new jvc's?
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post #12849 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The with-/without-filter comparison shows a noticeable difference in gamut:

First reports were saying over 100% with filter and 90% without. Doesn't seem to be true. Hope we get feedback on a production model really soon.
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post #12850 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The with-/without-filter comparison shows a noticeable difference in gamut:
My point is, most movie content probably doesn't exceed 75% saturation very often. If you look at my RS440 P3 gamut, it does rather nicely in general and up to 75%. I don't lose sleep at night thinking about not reaching 100% saturation on all color points. I would much rather retain 18% more light assuming these new 4K units have a pretty decent ~90% coverage or something similar to my RS440 without a filter (see below) as this is going to show more of a "real world" movie difference versus looking at 100% saturation numbers on paper. However, at the end of the day, people will have a choice either way on what to use with the RS2000 and 3000. We'll have to see what production units do. If the coverage is not as good without the filter compared to the eshift units, then it might be a harder choice.
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post #12851 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
First reports were saying over 100% with filter and 90% without. Doesn't seem to be true. Hope we get feedback on a production model really soon.
These are the same figures for the e-shift models. Not that surprising considering they use the same bulb.
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post #12852 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
My point is, most movie content probably doesn't exceed 75% saturation very often. If you look at my RS440 P3 gamut, it does rather nicely in general and up to 75%. I don't lose sleep at night thinking about not reaching 100% saturation on all color points. I would much rather retain 18% more light assuming these new 4K units have a pretty decent ~90% coverage or something similar to my RS440 without a filter (see below) as this is going to show more of a "real world" movie difference versus looking at 100% saturation numbers on paper. However, at the end of the day, people will have a choice either way on what to use with the RS2000 and 3000.
Exactly, if movie content isn't even approaching 90% most of the time why waste the light for no reason.

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post #12853 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 12:35 PM
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This press release was released by JVC today, announcing that the NX9/RS3000 achieved THX 4K HDR Certification. I left the formatting intact to preserve the links for further research to those so inclined.



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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

JVC Projectors Achieve World’s First THX 4K HDR Certification
LONG BEACH, CALIF., January 4, 2019 – Underscoring its commitment to deliver the best home theater experience possible,JVC today announced that two recently introduced home theater projectors achieved THX 4K HDR Certification, the first display products to do so.
The new JVC Procision SeriesDLA-NX9 and Reference SeriesDLA-RS3000 are the only display devices to date to have achieved THX 4K HDRCertification, the most demanding specification that a display product can achieve. Both models feature JVC’s newest native 4K D-ILA device and the company’s 8K e-shift technology to produce an 8K image on the screen.
HDR content offers a substantial improvement in image quality with its expanded luminance range, wide color gamut, 10-bit gradation, and other enhancements. THX 4K HDR Certification ensures that a display achieves all that HDR can deliver to provide the most true-to-life video images.
HDR is a significant advancement in picture technology that delivers tangible improvements in image quality,” said Fred Zecha, General Manager, Custom Installation Sales, JVCKENWOOD USA Corporation. “With HDR available in a wide range of products today, THX 4K HDR Certification indicates a product that stands apart from the others and provides consumers with the assurance that their JVC projector will deliver the best possible HDR performance for a truly extraordinary viewing experience.”
THX performs hundreds of tests to confirm color accuracy, sharpness and contrast. A larger DCI-P3 color gamut is required for HDR, and THX 4K HDR Certification ensures that a display truly achieves this new color palette, and with the highest accuracy. Furthermore, 4K HDR displays are evaluated for color and moiré artifacts with full HD and 4K content. Images must match the color, luminance, black levels and gamma seen in the filmmaker’s studio.
The THX HDR test suite also ensures that even in scenes with multiple sized objects, white levels are produced that meet those expected by editors and colorists in production suites.
A key feature of the new JVC projectors is the Auto Tone Mapping function, which automatically adjusts settings for the optimum HDR10 image. The HDR10 mastering information MaxCLL (Maximum Content Light Level) / MaxFALL (Maximum Frame Average Light Level) varies greatly depending on content. Therefore, in order to achieve the best HDR10 experience it is necessary to set the appropriate brightness settings for each piece of programming. The new Auto Tone Mapping function automatically adjusts settings based on the mastering information. Various HDR images with different brightness can be viewed optimally without manual adjustment of the settings. THX tests for tone mapping to ensure that all content is rendered with precise definition in the brightest and darkest areas. In cases where content does not contain mastering information, a fixed value will be set or it can be manually adjusted.
JVC is always at the forefront of delivering emerging technologies, and pushing the boundaries of quality and performance,” states Peter Vasay, SVP of Technology Operations at THX. “We are amazed at the detail and precision in the picture quality of JVC’s 4K HDR projectors. Whenever we certify a product from JVC, we know we are working with equipment that will truly deliver the artist’s vision.”
The JVC DLA-NX9 and DLA-RS3000 projectors are each priced at $17,999.95.
About JVCKENWOOD USA Corporation
JVCKENWOOD USA Corporation is a wholly-owned subsidiary of JVCKENWOOD Corporation and is a leading developer of imaging, home and car entertainment and navigation products for the consumer market, two-way radio communications systems for public safety, private industry and amateur users, and video equipment for the broadcast and professional markets. For detailed information, call JVCKENWOOD USA at 1-800-582-5825 or visit us at http://us.jvckenwood.com, www.kenwoodusa.com and www.jvc.com.
About THX Ltd.
Founded by legendary filmmaker George Lucas in 1983, THX Ltd. and its partners provide premium entertainment experiences in the cinema, in the home and on the go. Over the past thirty-five years, THX has expanded its certification categories beyond studios and cinemas to consumer electronics, content, and automotive systems. Today, THX continues to redefine entertainment, providing exciting new technologies and assurance of experiences which provide consumers with superior audio and visual fidelity and ensure an artist’s vision is truthfully delivered to audiences worldwide.

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post #12854 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 12:52 PM
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That's good to know, anyone with an NX9 needs to stop by their local Walmart and buy a THX certified soundbar to complete their system.

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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
Can the shield handle blu-ray menu's? And is it the best media player to get with the new jvc's?
It does not handle menus but works very well with BD and UHD mkv. There are media players that do with mixed results like the dune 4k pro and zidoo x9s/z9s

None of them do as good a job as the Oppo 203 at this time which works excellent with BD and UHD menus and passes full HDR metadata.
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post #12856 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 01:19 PM
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Free lamp promo for Canadians.

Received this from my dealer today.

The promo has been extended until March 31.

He was also told that pre-orders are expected to be delivered to customers between now and the end of February.

Here is the French version of the claim form.
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post #12857 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Considering a delta error under 1 is undetectable by the eye, I guess I never considered it short.
I think I worked it out to be exactly 1.0, ie a just noticeable difference (note the <1 rule of thumb is just that, it breaks in many places). I take your point that it isn't a big difference, and it is at the edge of the gamut. But my original (and disputed) point was that these units don't reach REC709 without the filter, and I stand by what I said - that (at least a reasonable number of them) don't.

I didn't say there was much in it, but if you profile with Lightspace and generate a 3DLUT you'll see the areas of the gamut that are clipped. And when you visualise it like that you realise that once you have something being clipped you've got a few choices to correct it and none of them are great because they either result in clipping with certain stimulus or modifying the whole or a substantial part of the gamut to "make it fit".

None of this is life or death or even that big of a deal, but if you are striving for reference you care.

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Exactly, if movie content isn't even approaching 90% most of the time why waste the light for no reason.
It's all very well saying not to bother about the 10%, but then the questions occur what do you do when you get content in the 10%? Is it clipped, or did you modify the 90% to make that 10% fit? Of course when we're talking about P3 we're also talking about a luminance range we can't achieve; so before long you're left thinking "what exactly do I have of my HDR WCG presentation left on the table over the SDR one?"
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post #12858 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 01:37 PM
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This press release was today, announcing that the NX9/RS3000 achieved THX 4K HDR Certification. I left the formatting intact to preserve the links for further research to those so inclined.
Congrats to JVC. They really care about their projector products. I only hope that the quality control has been thorough and detailed for each and every piece.
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How do you control the engagement or not of the color filter? Just a menu setting?


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How do you control the engagement or not of the color filter? Just a menu setting?
Edit: the same way as on your X790. Certain colour profiles engage it. If you are watching some WCG HDR content and switch to a profile with it enabled, the projector will then switch in the filter any time WCG HDR is received.

Unfortunately JVC still haven't added a colour profile off option that disables the CMS while allowing the filter to be used. This is a little bit annoying for those of us doing 3DLUT as it breaks RGB separation a little bit.
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post

It's all very well saying not to bother about the 10%, but then the questions occur what do you do when you get content in the 10%? Is it clipped, or did you modify the 90% to make that 10% fit? Of course when we're talking about P3 we're also talking about a luminance range we can't achieve; so before long you're left thinking "what exactly do I have of my HDR WCG presentation left on the table over the SDR one?"
Lets say you found some material that exceeds 90% P3 and the worst case scenario happens where it is clipped. Even in that situation it's still 18% darker which means it's still a duller HDR picture by 18%.

And the other 99% time when content isn't hitting 90% P3 you also get to watch all that stuff 18% darker.

Seems like a big trade off to me.

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post #12862 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I think I worked it out to be exactly 1.0, ie a just noticeable difference (note the <1 rule of thumb is just that, it breaks in many places). I take your point that it isn't a big difference, and it is at the edge of the gamut. But my original (and disputed) point was that these units don't reach REC709 without the filter, and I stand by what I said - that (at least a reasonable number of them) don't.

I didn't say there was much in it, but if you profile with Lightspace and generate a 3DLUT you'll see the areas of the gamut that are clipped. And when you visualise it like that you realise that once you have something being clipped you've got a few choices to correct it and none of them are great because they either result in clipping with certain stimulus or modifying the whole or a substantial part of the gamut to "make it fit".

None of this is life or death or even that big of a deal, but if you are striving for reference you care.
I like to strive for reference which is why Chad B has been my calibrator for nearly the last 15 years.

However, I also know how to keep things in context, perspective and understand the "real world" or practicalities of a lamp-based projector, how content is mastered, as well as what the eye can really see.

I do not consider a delta error of slightly less than 1 - or at 1 - as a deficiency. I understand the human eye cannot tell the difference between that or at something that low. I also don't believe a Lightspace 3D LUT is going to make any kind of practical, significant difference in this specific case, but I get where you're coming from. So, with that said, I don't consider any of my four JVCs to have had rec 709 green insufficiency at 100%. But, we'll just have to agree to disagree as this is getting off-topic and we're not going to change each other's minds.

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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Lets say you found some material that exceeds 90% P3 and the worst case scenario happens where it is clipped. Even in that situation it's still 18% darker which means it's still a duller HDR picture by 18%.

And the other 99% time when content isn't hitting 90% P3 you also get to watch all that stuff 18% darker.

Seems like a big trade off to me.
What's another 18% darker between friends? . You're already a country mile away from HDR luminance levels...

I guess the choice you might be making there is for gradient areas to become posterised, versus a non-posterized but dimmer image, or to have a generally brighter but less accurate colour image. I would consider taking the dimmer image with more linear / accurate gamut unless it was so dim as to be unusable. 18% dimmer is a similar ballpark to the range that SDR folk operate in (12-16FtL); not having enough brightness is something we're used to in projection.

But they're all compromises so it is nice to have the options and for us to be able to compare results and opinions.
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post #12864 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 02:19 PM
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It will be interesting to see what the final numbers look like post production with various samples that are being tested by Kris, Arrow, and others.
It will be great to get some true numbers that is for sure

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UPDATE FROM JVC REGARDING UK & EUROPE:

I just received confirmation from JVC that there’s going to be a number of batches of limited quantities, probably 3 in total, provided to the UK and Europe with the first arriving 2nd or 3rd week January, and the majority if not all pre-orders aiming to be fulfilled by end of February
Will not be long now.....
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post #12865 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Edit: the same way as on your X790. Certain colour profiles engage it. If you are watching some WCG HDR content and switch to a profile with it enabled, the projector will then switch in the filter any time WCG HDR is received.

Unfortunately JVC still haven't added a colour profile off option that disables the CMS while allowing the filter to be used. This is a little bit annoying for those of us doing 3DLUT as it breaks RGB separation a little bit.
I wonder how much this varies between units because I know that JAVs had no trouble hitting 100% of BT.709 with less than 1 de without the filter with his 640. I have also seen other reviews of recent eshift models that also easily hit 100% of BT 709 without the filter.

In fact, there is very little difference between color range on the new Sonys 295, 696, 885, 995 and the old JVC eshifts without the filter. Obviously with the filter the JVCs outperform the Sonys by hitting more than full P3.

I think I am going to set up my RS3000 so that for SDR, I don't use the filter but set the iris low and low lamp. For HDR, I'll set it up with the color filter, iris a little higher, and high lamp. I only have a 110" diagonal 1.1 gain Cima Neve Screen. So the RS3000 should light my screen up above 40 FL even with color filter in place. Right now I have a 385 Sony rated at only about 1300 lumens calibrated and I have been measuring about 36 FL on my screen.
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post #12866 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
That's good to know, anyone with an NX9 needs to stop by their local Walmart and buy a THX certified soundbar to complete their system.
Does anyone now exactly what the THX settings do on the JVC?

Are they something close to calibrated reference settings? Or do they have some slightly different tweaks to color and picture settings.

In other words, Will you need to setup multiple settings like Reference SDR, Reference HDR, and THX? Or will THX be a setting that could be used for HDR only or SDR only. I guess what I am asking is what do THX settings do and do you need specific THX blu-ray discs to make use of it?
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post #12867 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 03:08 PM
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JVC DLA-NX7 D-ILA projector

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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
It will be great to get some true numbers that is for sure

Will not be long now.....

My North American JVC Dealer had also sent me an email today stating that I would get my JVC DLA-NX7 in the 2nd or 3rd week of January..
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post #12868 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 03:20 PM
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And the other 99% time when content isn't hitting 90% P3 you also get to watch all that stuff 18% darker.
Not true if you have the proper curves. See the comparison between 75 nits peak and 120 nits peak; nowhere near 37% darker.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post55874834
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post #12869 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 03:22 PM
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My North American JVC Dealer had also sent me an email today stating that I would get my JVC DLA-NX7 in the 2nd or 3rd week of January..
please provide appropriate Yeti alert as soon as there is a sighting

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post #12870 of 13660 Old 01-04-2019, 03:25 PM
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Not true if you have the proper curves. See the comparison between 75 nits peak and 120 nits peak; nowhere near 37% darker.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post55874834
Color filter is going to reduce brightness by 18% regardless of curves or iris settings.

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