NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
So the Sony vs JVC wars have already resumed

I would argue against that really. Again, the JVC doesn't have Reality Creation nor does it have a laser engine. Hence it is very much comparable to the VW760ES. It's even priced pretty much in the same range. The 870 should be considered in a different category alltogether.

That doesn't mean that it isn't a very interesting device, I'm not going to just believe that 100k contrast number until I know exactly what it means yet however. I am curious to the performance of the lens.

I'm also wondering what this 8k exactly does tho. I find eshift for upscaling not good at all, and as far as I know there's not going to be any 8k input? That's really too bad, I really see a lot of potential if we can actually utilize that 8k resolution.
What is the use of Reality Creation? It does only 'bad things' in my opinion for sources like UHD and BluRays. Studios are using millions of dollars to make 'masters' true to original source, and putting them on high-quality media, and we shall use processing that makes them overly sharpend, removing fine-detail and introducing unwanted artefacts?
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post #1292 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:13 PM
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Do these new JVC Projectors do 3D?

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post #1293 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I understand that you will both be attending the same private demo, so I guess there is no point in asking the same questions twice...
Well how about that... It's a small world isn't it? Therefore, your 'friend of a good friend' is Ran

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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Looking forward to your contrast measurements though, if they let you measure (and publish) on-off contrast measurements from a pre-production unit in a (most likely non-dedicated) showroom, that will be welcome. But please, don't post the measurements if there is any ambient light, reflected or not, in the room. We need accurate, meaningful measurements or nothing.
Do I have a track record of taking and publishing inaccurate non-meaningful measurements?
.
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post #1294 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

Do I have a track record of taking and publishing inaccurate non-meaningful measurements?
.
You can only test what is in front of you which will be a prototype....... But hey with all these posts, something is better then nothing
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Originally Posted by darinp View Post
Just doing other things, but this does tend to be the most exciting part of the year here. Looks like we'll have a pretty good CEDIA this year.

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From some old timers from way back when, I heard CEDIA and CES where quite the party behind closed doors, work all day, party all night Nothing like what they are today I guess, started going I think 12 years ago, that was my first year.

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There is usually no time at these shows for measurements. Anyway, better to get an actual production unit to measure, and have the time to do it right on one's own home turf !
Yep, no kidding have been to many, just responding to someone mentioning testing at shows.
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post #1295 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:21 PM
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I really want the NX9 or NX7 but without HDMI 2.1 and the fact that there are many new components, I will wait this round out as there will be quality issues that are sorted out in the second year of production.


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post #1296 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Wasn't the RS4500 native 4k chip's pixel pitch of 3.8 μm as well?
Definitely, but this is in relation to how the 4K contrast got here from the previous 1080p series.
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post #1297 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:26 PM
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I kindly ask you please, changing my past post, if the N7 has a notorious improvement over the X 950 I own, considering the known specs, adding that my projection room is pretty dark, all blacked out. I use the Oppo 205 to upscale 1080p to UHD. I'd be thankful if someone could answer me. Thanks in advance.
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post #1298 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
...
The detail is all in the source material. You cannot create detail out of thin air.
Of course you can. Motion interpolation is one current example. Image processing is full of algorithms designed to somehow "enhance" the image.

The better question is when you create detail did you you do it correctly or did you introduce enough artifacts that the result is worse than leaving the original as-is.

Sony believes that the processing algorithms in their Reality Creation suite makes displayed motion images "better". A lot of users and focus groups seem to agree.
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post #1299 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I really want the NX9 or NX7 but without HDMI 2.1 and the fact that there are many new components, I will wait this round out as there will be quality issues that are sorted out in the second year of production.


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Didn't you do the same last year with the Sony projectors (I thought I remembered you from the 385 thread)? There will always be a reason to wait but things change so quick that at some point you just have to pull the trigger....or pull the trigger every year like some of us
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post #1300 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Didn't you do the same last year with the Sony projectors (I thought I remembered you from the 385 thread)? There will always be a reason to wait but things change so quick that at some point you just have to pull the trigger....or pull the trigger every year like some of us

I will likely buy the Trinnov Altitude 16 this year and then buy one of the new JVC this time next year..... if I can take reading all the glowing reports of these amazing new projectors.... I may snap under the pressure and put off the Trinnov!


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post #1301 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LumenChip View Post
Definitely, but this is in relation to how the 4K contrast got here from the previous 1080p series.
Got ya... reduction in aperture ratio.

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post #1302 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You can only test what is in front of you which will be a prototype....... But hey with all these posts, something is better then nothing
It's a pre-production unit. We all know this. It's the final hardware, but with beta firmware. I will be taking accurate measurements. I will also soon be taking accurate measurements of the first lot of production units with the proper launch firmware. I bet you that I will not be seeing a huge difference. Would you like to take that bet?
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post #1303 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:36 PM
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Do we know if these new Projectors are using the panels from the 4500?


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post #1304 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I will likely buy the Trinnov Altitude 16 this year and then buy one of the new JVC this time next year..... if I can take reading all the glowing reports of these amazing new projectors.... I may snap under the pressure and put off the Trinnov!


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As soon I get mine, you are more than welcome to come to my place to check it out and help me with initials setting as this is my first JVC ever.
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post #1305 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
As soon I get mine, you are more than welcome to come to my place to check it out and help me with initials setting as this is my first JVC ever.

That would be cool. Keep me updated.


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post #1306 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Sure, let's park it; but I will just say you should probably spend a little of your time watching the two videos here (thanks to @Gary Lightfoot for the links from a while back). It >might< change your view of 2K DI content.
http://yedlin.net/ResDemo/#
If you only get though the first 10 mins of part 2 you'll see why Reality Creation making stuff sharper is probably not getting you closer to what you think should have been the sharpness of a 4K version; the 2K DI rescaled back to 4K may well be perceptually sharper than the 4K would have been if you could have got access to it...
Hey Bobof,

I've got a double impression of that video.

On the one hand it's interesting to see the minimal difference between 6k and 2k (However, I still stand by what I said in that I find most content to be subpar). On the other hand, they also show what a good upscaler can do to an image. Even though the upscaler the video used is a lot coarser than what I'm used to, the effect is the same.

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post #1307 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Per Johnny View Post
What is the use of Reality Creation? It does only 'bad things' in my opinion for sources like UHD and BluRays. Studios are using millions of dollars to make 'masters' true to original source, and putting them on high-quality media, and we shall use processing that makes them overly sharpend, removing fine-detail and introducing unwanted artefacts?
No they're not, they're not using millions of dollars at all. They're GAINING millions of dollars by selling these barely improved sources.

I use it a LOT, and I find it extremely impressive. It's the best upscaler I've ever seen.

What exactly makes you think it removes fine detail or overly sharpens? The unwanted artefacts are certainly there, but far less pronounced than what eshift does even with a 4k source.

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Last edited by christoffeldg; 08-30-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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post #1308 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:46 PM
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Hey Arrow, another question for you to fire if you can.

What exactly is the purpose of the 8k eshift? Are they going to provide some kind of 8k input? And if not, what type of scaling are they going to use for the output?

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post #1309 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
It's a pre-production unit. We all know this. It's the final hardware, but with beta firmware. I will be taking accurate measurements. I will also soon be taking accurate measurements of the first lot of production units with the proper launch firmware. I bet you that I will not be seeing a huge difference. Would you like to take that bet?
.
I recognize that your list is growing but have one question to add:

Will the N5 with the lack of lens iris measure higher calibrated lumens than the N7 & 1700 lumens in the marketing material?
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post #1310 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Didn't you do the same last year with the Sony projectors (I thought I remembered you from the 385 thread)? There will always be a reason to wait but things change so quick that at some point you just have to pull the trigger....or pull the trigger every year like some of us
Yeah, I seem to be back on the "pull the trigger every year path"!
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post #1311 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Hey Arrow, another question for you to fire if you can.

What exactly is the purpose of the 8k eshift? Are they going to provide some kind of 8k input? And if not, what type of scaling are they going to use for the output?

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post #1312 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:01 PM
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@ARROW-AV , is there a list of question for you already...dont want to overburden or ask something already asked before

but I am really keen to understand the auto HDR aspect. and HDR10 support.... are they forgoing DV in that case is HDR10 king ? and how are they supporting exactly I wonder. ...

are these jvc finally plug and play with UHD ? without needing hd furies and gamma curves and what not ?

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post #1313 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
...
Do I have a track record of taking and publishing inaccurate non-meaningful measurements?
.
No, but the little puppy that keeps following you around keeps messing on the thread floors with inaccurate statements!
You need to house train him!
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post #1314 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:08 PM
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No they're not, they're not using millions of dollars at all. They're GAINING millions of dollars by selling these barely improved sources.

I use it a LOT, and I find it extremely impressive. It's the best upscaler I've ever seen.

What exactly makes you think it removes fine detail or overly sharpens? The unwanted artefacts are certainly there, but far less pronounced than what eshift does even with a 4k source.
Have you ever used madvr?
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post #1315 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:12 PM
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Have you ever used madvr?
That's true, the Madvr screenshots you made I can't replicate.

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post #1316 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I really want the NX9 or NX7 but without HDMI 2.1 and the fact that there are many new components, I will wait this round out as there will be quality issues that are sorted out in the second year of production.


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Yes, my Dad advised me to "never buy the first model year of a new car" because there will always be "bugs" that the manufacturer, owners and users will only discover AFTER they have purchased and used it for some time.

This advice also holds true for PJ's. I didn't follow my dad's advice, and learned my lesson the hard way. I bought the first year production model HDMI Sony Pearl (VPL-VW50).

We had to ship it back to SONY Corp SIX TIMES FOR REPAIR; SONY HAD IT FOR A TOTAL OF 18 MONTHS before they finally offered to "replace it with the next year's model Sony VPL-VW60, for a 'nominal fee''" ONLY AFTER WE CONTACTED AN ATTORNEY, GOT THE STATE'S "DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS" DIRECTLY INVOLVED AND THREATENED LEGAL ACTION!

Unsurprisingly, the replacement model Sony VPL-VW60 had rectified all of the defects that numerous Sony VPL-VW50 owners had encountered and reported.

We have put over 15,000 hours on our Sony VPL-VW60 without a hick up. Not one problem, and it has never needed repair.

Fortunately we use it nearly every day in a climate controlled environment and it is only now beginning to exhibit some panel degradation issues.

We are looking for a 4K replacement but aren't in any rush to be "early adopter" test guinea pigs. We will bide our time and wait for the "latest technology bugs" to be discovrred and worked out.

Another example are those who plopped down over $25,000 dollars for the 4K Sony 1000ES, only to discover it wasn't ready for prime time and couldn't even play native 4K without shipping it back to Sony for a "hardware update"! Hence the need for the Sony 1100ES.

Yes, the new native 4K JVC pj's, especially the 8Ke-shift look really good on paper, but we'll wait until after this year's models "shake down cruise" are over, and the "bugs" are discovered and rectified in next year's "new and improved"/updated models.
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post #1317 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:29 PM
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Yes, my Dad advised me to "never buy the first model year of a new car" because there will always be "bugs" that the manufacturer, owners and users will only discover AFTER they have purchased and used it for some time.



This advice also holds true for PJ's. I didn't follow my dad's advice, and learned my lesson the hard way. I bought the first year production model HDMI Sony Pearl (VPL-VW50).



We had to ship it back to SONY Corp SIX TIMES FOR REPAIR; SONY HAD IT FOR A TOTAL OF 18 MONTHS before they finally offered to "replace it with the next year's model Sony VPL-VW60, for a 'nominal fee''" ONLY AFTER WE CONTACTED AN ATTORNEY, GOT THE STATE'S "DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS" DIRECTLY INVOLVED AND THREATENED LEGAL ACTION!



Unsurprisingly, the replacement model Sony VPL-VW60 had rectified all of the defects that numerous Sony VPL-VW50 owners had encountered and reported.



We have put over 15,000 hours on our Sony VPL-VW60 without a hick up. Not one problem, and it has never needed repair.



Fortunately we use it nearly every day in a climate controlled environment and it is only now beginning to exhibit some panel degradation issues.



We are looking for a 4K replacement but aren't in any rush to be "early adopter" test guinea pigs. We will bide our time and wait for the "latest technology bugs" to be discovrred and worked out.



Another example are those who plopped down over $25,000 dollars for the 4K Sony 1000ES, only to discover it wasn't ready for prime time and couldn't even play native 4K without shipping it back to Sony for a "hardware update"! Hence the need for the Sony 1100ES.



Yes, the new native 4K JVC pj's, especially the 8Ke-shift look really good on paper, but we'll wait until after this year's models "shake down cruise" are over, and the "bugs" are discovered and rectified in next year's "new and improved"/updated models.

Totally agree.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #1318 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:44 PM
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Do these new JVC Projectors do 3D?
They sure do! 3d is still intact.
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post #1319 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 05:58 PM
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Of course you can. Motion interpolation is one current example. Image processing is full of algorithms designed to somehow "enhance" the image.

The better question is when you create detail did you you do it correctly or did you introduce enough artifacts that the result is worse than leaving the original as-is.

Sony believes that the processing algorithms in their Reality Creation suite makes displayed motion images "better". A lot of users and focus groups seem to agree.
When I had my VW600 and RS600 stacked so I could use either one, there was only one movie I thought looked better on the VW600 at the time - " Mad Max : Fury Road ". Everything else looked pretty close motion wise ( but they look different at times ). Motion hasn't been an issue at all on the RS4500. I'm curious to see what the motion handling looks like on the new JVC 4K machines.
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post #1320 of 13655 Old 08-30-2018, 06:42 PM
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Honestly, this is a very serious question tho. Would really like the answer to that.
Yes, but nobody is going to answer that question, before the show.
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