NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13017Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1471 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
willieconway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 872
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
There are plenty of RS440's left ( 100 perhaps ), if that's any consolation .

Based on feedback from Mike Garrett it's not, unfortunately. My throw distance is about 10' and my screen is 100", and I can't handle too much brightness.

Equipment and collection:
Spoiler!
willieconway is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1472 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:24 AM
Advanced Member
 
griffindodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked: 1034
OK, I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn on many areas of image quality, but I can't help but bang my head against the table with some of the snake oil and seemingly odd decisions coming out of some of these announcements...

It's got 8K with e-shift!!!!! but only 18gbps HDMI!!!!!! So even when you have 8K content.....you can't watch it on this device YAY!!!! But think of all those beautiful dots you'll be able to see when you sit 4ft away from a 20ft screen.......but it's only 2,200 lumens, with the Iris wide open, so it will be too dim to see those dots....... AND ALL FOR ONLY 17,000 EUROS!!!

The 5 and 7 seem a little more reasonable in their tech and price points, but good lord, the 9 has some very questionable 'features'

</ENDRANT>
Mike_WI likes this.
griffindodd is offline  
post #1473 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
hasta666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Here goes guys,



So I attended 2 different JVC Demo's this afternoon. At the end of the second one, I was able to persuade one of the guys there to put some of our own stuff (Nigel and I).



Before we get to my impressions, I had a few minutes with one of their tech guys and managed to get some answers to some of the questions I had. Some questions remained unanswered, as they wouldn't give a straight, or any answer to the question asked.



In NO particular order:



1. Ansi Contrast has been improved and is now similar to the 4500.



2. The lens on the 5+7 are the same as last years lens.



3. Updates will be done via the USB port.



4. A completely new Light engine.



5. Iris is the same as last years, BUT the N9 will have a brand new Iris system.



6. Sync times will be cut in half.



7. Streaking is a thing of the past (hopefully of course…)



8. Light loss with the filter will be less (not sure how much less) than last year.



9. New and improved calibration software will be out shortly, NO support for new sensors.



10. Bright Corners (my absolute nightmare) is a well known issue, which currently can NOT be solved under current conditions and pricing. Asked about this "picking the best parts stuff" (which is a thing of the past now, but still made me wonder...) and they said it has nothing to do or no effect on bright corners what so ever, just lens and better contrast.





As for the Demo.





The N9 was the only projector running.



The showed a bunch of nature stuff which of course I'm not familiar with. The Iris was on Manual, because the Dynamic Iris is still a work in progress.



The screen was a Stewart 1.3 gain, 3.8M width, which made things quite difficult for me to evaluate as I have the HP (1.7 Gain effectively) screen with 3M width, so this can be a little tricky.





Brightness was Ok but I couldn't say it was great, there was A LOT of mosquito noise which would not go away, even when we turned the E.Shift Off.



I saw some serious Banding during the demo, in fact 3-4 times during this 20 minutes demo.



Sharpness was very good and there was a lot of detail which was quite remarkable.

Contrast looked fine as well, I can't say, coming from a X9500,that I was aware of any problems with the contrast.



We then switched to parts of Pacific Rim 2, which I'm not familiar with it so I have no reference. Having said that I think the picture was very good , a lot of detail , very sharp and nice contrast, Brightness seemed OK, but not something that made me think it was more than enough. Motion was fine, but it did not seem any different from what I'm used to.



After the public Demo was over I was given the opportunity to watch Skyfall at 1080P which I know better than anyone who has ever worked on the film..



I had a close look at the balcony scene (where Bond is given a shave..) and it looked very good in terms of sharpness, brightness and contrast, though I did see this kind of mosquito noise which I'm not familiar with on my unit.



As mentioned, the screen was much bigger than my own, so comparing to the picture I see at home is quite difficult, but I came out thinking that this looked very good, but not necessarily much better than mine.



I was meaning to test some 4K footage but we where out of time and I let Nigel put on some test patterns so we can further evaluate things. I'll let him say a few words about that, but it was surely impressive.



In summery, coming from the X9500, I think that the N7 will be quite risky in terms of contrast and perhaps it might become an issue.



The N9 seems to be the obvious choice for a true upgrade but price wise and the fact that this is not a 2.1 chip (No idea of any upgrade path) this will be too risky to purchase one with out viewing a production unit first.



So, I'm on hold right now until I get to test out (or someone I trust) a production unit and evaluate how much of an upgrade this thing really is.





Ran


Thanks. Very honest opinion it seems. Of course without your usual test material it is harder to judge. Plus the dynamic iris is not ready yet and it will probably change some things.
hasta666 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1474 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:25 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
tigerhonaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN. USA
Posts: 1,552
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 587
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
I agree that for a member on this site to NOT be wise enough to check all projectors is a Major-Mistake if one is in the market or going to be.
And with me saying the above your right this site for some reason I honestly still don't really understand it is a Divided-Camp on Sony & JVC for sure.
Why I don't get but it is …………


Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
That is the biggest change I see in AVS now that I am back posting after a 5 year hiatus.
Every post seems to be about proving that one brand is "better" than the other which is annoying to folks just trying to get info on which projector would best fill one's own individual needs.
HoustonHoyaFan,

And for us members that have been into the marketing thing in our careers we instantly recognize the Sony versus JVC promoting one against the other.
And as some of us recognize it is and does make our decision making on a replacement Model Projector really-really difficult.
I know only speaking for myself AVS IMHO has turned into a Marketing Internet Site and one had better be wise enough and on their toes in what they read to decipher the comments on discussions.
Personally I just want to try to get the Facts on the Sony as well as the JVC upper end projectors.
I'm not into the get the next model as they change time after time.
I want to get the Highest-End Model I can afford and it last me as long as I want it to.


Terry
HoustonHoyaFan and roxiedog13 like this.

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, August 20th 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 08-31-2018 at 09:44 AM.
tigerhonaker is online now  
post #1475 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3920 Post(s)
Liked: 6366
My two cents:

UPDATE FROM IFA 2018:

Hi everyone,

JVC had the JVC DLA-NX9 on demo only. As we all know, this is a preproduction unit, so this needs to be borne in mind.

We were not able to obtain answers to everyones questions, but we were unable to obtain the answers to some of them, which I will come onto in a second. Further to this JVC were reluctant to allow us to put on our own video content, but the good news is that we managed to persuade JVC to allow us to put one or two items of our own content on.

The dynamic contrast functionality was/is not working properly so the demos at IFA 2018 have been with it turned off and so the projected image relates to native ON/OFF contrast performance only, without any dynamic contrast functionality.

There was also noticeable posterization however I was assured that this will not be present with the production units.

Furthermore, the unit was uncalibrated and the settings not optimized.

Also, the focus had been set imperfectly, which became apparent when I put on some test patterns.

**HOWEVER** in spite of all of this, subjectively speaking my first impressions of the JVC DLA-NX9 are that the image projected looks very good indeed; and I have no doubt whatsoever that with respect to the actual production units with proper launch firmware and with the projector setup properly and calibrated, this projector is going to look nothing short of absolutely incredible. In short, I have been absolutely blown away by its performance.

Also, as a point of interest, the manual mechanical iris was closed down to -3. The screen size was circa 3.5m wide and was using Stewart Filmscreen 1.3 gain screen material.

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AS PER FOLLOWS (sorry if there is some repetition with respect to Ran's answers!):

Native on/off for all models with the iris fully open? Even if only a rough idea compared to the specs, which presumably are for iris fully closed?

We were unable to take measurements and JVC were not agreeable to confirming this yet

Autocal support confirmation, and for which meters?

Yes and the same meters (Spyder); however, the Autocal is reportedly improved

Is the lens on the N5/N7 the same lens as on the current models?

NO the lens is similar but has been improved, according to JVC's main technical guy. Subjective opinion regarding the N5 and N7 are that they are better as compared with the existing eShift range as far as lens and optics performance is concerned.

Is their new tone mapping based on static HDR metadata, or are they doing real-time processing to calculate each frame’s peak brightness to emulate HDR10+ (similar to what MadVR does [EDIT:apparently, the UB820 only processes HDR10 static metadata])

Yes it is indeed based on static HDR metadata, similar to how the new Panasonic UB820 and UB9000 Blu-Ray players operate.

Furthermore, a rather neat feature, it tells you what is the media’s static HDR metadata (Max CLL and Max FALL). See this photo that I took which shows this:



ANSI contrast

According to JVC but not yet definitely confirmed via independent measurements the ANSI contrast performance is increased by circa 50%. Unsure at the present time whether this extends to both of the N5 and N7 further to the NX9.

Does the dynamic iris close further than on the current models (i.e. any improvement to fade to black)?

No. It’s the same.

There are “up to” 10 installation memories that hold lens memory, pixel correction, masking etc all together, which sounds great, but how many of these for each model

With respect to the NX9 it’s 10. Unsure at the present time whether this includes the N5 and N7 as well, but I expect that it does.

Is the HDMI sync time improved compared to the current models

Yes. It’s been HALVED

Can you confirm the +/- 100% V and +/- 47% H lens shift reported by some sources?

Confirmed

What is the lumen loss with DCI P3 filter in place?

According to JVC “it is less”

JVC were unwilling or unable to divulge more details that the fact it is less. So someone will simply have to measure it, which I will be doing myself, as and when I receive delivery of my units

Is there additional video noise when eShift is turned on

No. There is absolutely zero additional video noise when eShift is turned on.

Bright corners

When asked the question whether or not there has been any development invested into improving the potential for bright corners, the response from the JVC guys was that no there has not been. **HOWEVER** I was not seeing any bright corners with respect to the NX9 unit being demonstrated; and this is a totally new optical block plus chipset, plus chassis etc. so it could very well be that the bright corners issue has indeed been improved. Either way, we won't know for sure until we have multiple data points with respect to the production units.

Is the iris on the NX9 the same or new?

It is a completely new iris.

How has JVC managed to increase the native ON/OFF contrast with native 4K so much?

JVC are understandably and as expected unwilling to say how they have done it; however, they have confirmed that it’s an entirely new optical block and chipset.

Will JVC be releasing sometime next year a ‘big brother’ to the NX9 and/or replacement for the JVC RS4500/Z1 that’s essentially an NX9 with laser light source and higher peak lumens light output?

Would not confirm or deny.

When will the production units for the projectors be available / ship ?

End of October.

Impressions of lens performance and/or ability to resolve native 4K content at the pixel level

Despite all of the various pre-production related issues, and despite being 'out-of-the-box' uncalibrated, the NX9 completely aced both torture tests that I carried out. Firstly, it PERFECTLY resolved the Masciola single pixel native 4K test pattern off the HDR10 Test Pattern Suite, with perfect uniformity:

(N.B. I apologize for the quality of these photos - I was only able to take these using my phone not my 'proper' camera - there was in reality no moire in the projected image. That is a limitation of the photos)





Secondly, it completed nailed the Quick Brown Fox test pattern, with perfect sharpness (aside from the projector having been set out of focus slightly) and perfect focus uniformity right across the whole image. The RGB convergence was also very good indeed all things considered; and the image was devoid of any and all streaking / ghosting / smearing, comprising an exceptionally clean and razor sharp image, even when viewed at extremely close proximity of less than 1 metre away, with superb contrast and dynamic range:



My conclusion from my first experience of the JVC DLA-NX9 is that JVC has hit a home run with this projector; and potentially with respect to the whole new projector range. Personally, I cannot wait to lay hands on the production units and carry out my evaluations and complete my in-depth review of the range, including comprehensive measurements, scientific analysis, and direct comparisons; which will be published shortly thereafter


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 09-01-2018 at 02:22 PM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1476 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
My thought on the digital optimizer, the fact we are told that it is supposed to improve the outer edge focus . The ARC-F lens was likely designed with a sweet spot optimized for a longer throw . Now this ARC-F lens is being used in a short throw range and I'd bet the edges without correction are not so crisp. The optimizer is probably there for this reason , it specifically says edge correction if I have understood the posts and comments made about this feature . The previous lens was designed for a short throw range, it's already in the sweet spot it was designed and intended for .
I don't believe that DFO is designed to correct any deficiency in the VPLL7013 lens. The VPLL7013 is a state of the art piece of kit which has one more ED element that the lens in the RS4500. Edge fidelity is about the best you can buy on any projector on the planet.

Sounds like a marketing feature that engineering threw in because they could. Someone at Pro suggested that it could have a similar effect as the peripheral field improvement using a curved screen but I am skeptical.
roxiedog13 likes this.
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #1477 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:41 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 24,215
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6516 Post(s)
Liked: 6487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
I am about 20 pages behind and don't care to wade through all of this.
She is moving fast.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
It's like Ford vs Chevy owners !
Trucks this could be true, sports car, Chevy will the clear win With the ZL1, Z06, ZR1......Would be nice if Ford brought back the Torino or something besides a FORD GT with a few units made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post

As mentioned, the screen was much bigger than my own, so comparing to the picture I see at home is quite difficult, but I came out thinking that this looked very good, but not necessarily much better than mine.
Sounds about right. Its not like these new models are going to dust, smoke, or destroy one of the best projectors made, the 440U, 540U, or 640U.
Cleveland Plasma is online now  
post #1478 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gary Lightfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 6,434
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1302 Post(s)
Liked: 1053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post

2. The lens on the 5+7 are the same as last years lens.
That kinda makes sense - a lens needs to be better than 1080 if it's using eshift, so I can imagine that it should be OK for native 4k as the 4K pixels and the eshifted sub pixels will be of similar size. Though that does seem to go against what others have heard previously regarding the elsn so we'll have to see..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
7. Streaking is a thing of the past (hopefully of course…)
Did you see evidence of that or was that what you were told? It's a good step in the right direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
10. Bright Corners (my absolute nightmare) is a well known issue, which currently can NOT be solved under current conditions and pricing. Asked about this "picking the best parts stuff" (which is a thing of the past now, but still made me wonder...) and they said it has nothing to do or no effect on bright corners what so ever, just lens and better contrast.
Bummer. Would have hoped that would have been finally fixed for good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Brightness was Ok but I couldn't say it was great, there was A LOT of mosquito noise which would not go away, even when we turned the E.Shift Off....

I had a close look at the balcony scene (where Bond is given a shave..) and it looked very good in terms of sharpness, brightness and contrast, though I did see this kind of mosquito noise which I'm not familiar with on my unit.
That's very disappointing, as that's one thing I notice with the JVCs. Was there any evidence of any micro flicker as well?

Thanks for taking the time.

Gary.
BakeApples likes this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
Gary Lightfoot is offline  
post #1479 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,573
Mentioned: 464 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2339 Post(s)
Liked: 3042
Nigel & Ran, thank you for your feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
I had a close look at the balcony scene (where Bond is given a shave..) and it looked very good in terms of sharpness, brightness and contrast, though I did see this kind of mosquito noise which I'm not familiar with on my unit.
Did you see this mosquito noise with Nigel's 4K test patterns, too? If not, it probably comes from upscaling the 1080p source, maybe combined with a sharpening algorithm which makes any 1080p compression artifacts extra visible.
OzHDHT, Manni01 and ARROW-AV like this.
madshi is offline  
post #1480 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Mike Garrett,



So, Mike that must mean you are thinking/considering/pondering selling your RS4500 (Buddy)
I'm sure you do remember how to contact me, right


Terry


I usually keep one year and then sell so that I can buy the next new model. Did that with my VW600, RS600 and RS4500. I sold my 4500 first of February and have an RS640 placeholder in my room right now. Plan has been to move the RS640 to my family room setup and a new projector for the dedicated room.
tigerhonaker likes this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1481 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
christoffeldg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,375
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1310 Post(s)
Liked: 526
That fox pattern definitely looks better than what my vw760es can achieve.

Video: Sony VPL-VW760ES, Elite screen Aeon 135" Cinewhite + JVC X7900, Magicscreen Reference ALR 120"
Speakers: Bowers and Wilkins 802 D3 front, JBL 580, JBL 520c, JBL 550p
Amplifiers: Lyngdorf stereo TDAI 2170, Lyngdorf SDA 2400, Denon 4300H Home Theatre
Equipment: PC/PS4/Xbox One/Switch/Synology 2415+
christoffeldg is offline  
post #1482 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:04 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
I thought you were satisfied enough with the 4500 to stick with it for another year?

Shouldn't you keep it until the bulb (laser) is at least half way 'used up' as a rule of thumb?
The 4500 was hard to let go. Best projector I have had in my room. But if I keep one year, then I can get my money out of it and be ready for next new projector. With this plan, you need a backup projector, because you will be using it for a few weeks. I have a few backup projectors.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1483 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3920 Post(s)
Liked: 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
That fox pattern definitely looks better than what my vw760es can achieve.
Yes. It is; and in more ways than one. The same goes for the JVC RS4500/Z1. You will see this when you visit. There is a very significant difference

Also, here's how the SONY 760/885ES handles that single pixel native 4K HDR10 Masciola test pattern, similarly out of the box, but with respect to actual production units:



Manni01 likes this.

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 08-31-2018 at 10:12 AM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1484 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:09 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Craig,


Hey I just saw the post on Mike and did not recall that he already sold his.


I'm really not wanting to make the move right now but sometimes one would be (Smart) to go ahead if the Price-was-Really-Really-{Right}.


From what I keep reading it seems the general consensus is JVC will introduce the next series RS4500.
If that does happen and I think that does make sense since if I'm right 2019 is three (3) years for the current model.
Then I have little doubt the pricing on the current RS4500 will be, shall we say, more to my Budget.


Terry

My VW600, RS600 and RS4500 sold to either the first or second person I offered it to.
tigerhonaker likes this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1485 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I'm not too disappointed that the NX9 does not have laser, even though I've been wanting laser for years. It will be great for calibration stability and for quick on/off without bulb guilt of turning on a pj just to catch the end of a game, etc. But if after 5000 hours I've lost say 1/4 brightness on a laser that cannot be easily/cheaply replaced, then I think the bulb is an advantage because that can be easily and cheaply swapped. Also with the auto calibration its a breeze to just fix any drift from time to time. Compared to years ago when I'd have to spend 6 hours manually editing the gamma in the RS1 to get a proper calibration.

If the ANSI CR increase is indeed close to 50%, that is very significant to me. My Sony VW95 has an advantage over the older JVC lines in the area of ANSI CR and I always felt the image looked better and more lifelike on the VW95, which I attributed largely to its 400-500 ANSI CR in my bat cave. I read above that someone said 400+ ANSI CR would beat the Sony. So at some point in more recent years did Sony's ANSI CR drop? IIRC it was 400+ with the VW95.

The big question I have right now is if this ANSI CR is real, and if so, if it is in the chip design in which case it may be in at least the NX7 and NX9, or if it is in the lens than it may be NX9 only.

Are the dimensions of the NX7 and NX9 the same, or is the NX9 bigger? I think I read that it has the same mounting holes as the RS500? That would be convenient.
Sony was not able to increase the ANSi over the 450:1 mark of the VW95 and in fact have regressed to < 400:1 in recent models.

IIRC you did some on-screen in room ANSI CR measurements back in the day as part of the AVS contrast project. Where did your on-screen measurements finally top out?

I was part of some testing recently where we measured RS4500 (50:1) GTZ240 (75:1) in a brown walled conference room and RS4500 (220:1) and GTZ240 (300:1) in a velvet bat cave.

Were you ever able to measure over 300:1 after your room improvements.

Apologies if I have confused you with another poster!
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #1486 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 3,423
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1184 Post(s)
Liked: 986
After skating through the 400 some posts since last night...., It sounds more and more like the N9 is going to be well worth the price increase. At least right now it does.

If we get improved motion then I would have no problem eating ramen noodles and selling a kidney to grab one of these. If not, then I will probably wait another year and ride my RS500 some more.

Hopefully motion handling will be answered soon.

Thanks to all of you that are there and reporting on this.
COACH2369 is online now  
post #1487 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,905
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
Any word if JVC has improved their motion handling to better compete with Sony's?

This is one of the things that is critical for me, in my opion motion handling is one of the most important features before all other variables . 4K and best lens must be coupled with good motion handling , otherwise the it's a waste IMHO . Sony has always been known to have the advantage with great motion handling , I'll want to verify the new JVC will be able to match this important characteristic otherwise it's a no go for me .This new line up from JVC in all honesty looks very impressive, certainly much has to be verified , so far it's all on paper and some of the features as we have been told earlier not functioning yet . Last year might have been a big one for Sony , their 4K line and the price point was huge. What JVC have done with these projectors appears to be very impressive, if it pans out I expect this to be a huge year for JVC. Took 6 years for JVC to get in the 4K game , they have done so I a very big way across the board, Sony is clearly now in the backseat as far as I can tell . Will take a few months for everything to be verified , even longer to see if these are trouble free . The NX9 is very intriguing for me personally , I don't think however I could go back to a lamp at this point after seeing the positive benefits laser has to offer .
DigitalAV likes this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #1488 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 587 Post(s)
Liked: 310
Secondly, it completed nailed the Quick Brown Fox test pattern, with perfect sharpness (aside from the projector having been set out of focus slightly) and perfect focus uniformity right across the whole image. The RGB convergence was also very good indeed all things considered; and the image was devoid of any and all streaking / ghosting / smearing, comprising an exceptionally clean and razor sharp image, even when viewed at extremely close proximity of less than 1 metre away, with superb contrast and dynamic range:





[/QUOTE]

Wow this fox pattern looks amazing.. And the picture above is sick!!!!
ARROW-AV likes this.
jorgebetancourt is offline  
post #1489 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
BakeApples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

That's very disappointing, as that's one thing I notice with the JVCs. Was there any evidence of any micro flicker as well?

Thanks for taking the time.

Gary.

The micro flicker you mention or image unrest as i call it is someting i have seen on all the JVC lamp models i have watched and it`s the only thing which has kept me away from a change to JVC from Sony. I was really hoping that the switch from 1080p e-shift to 4k would finally get rid of this but i am not 100% it has yet. Or maybe it`s something with the lamps because i didn`t see this when i watched the Z1.

Sony VPL-VW550 + custom HDR gamma curves | DNP Supernova 08-85 116" 2.35:1 | Pioneer SC-LX89 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo X20 | PS4 |
BakeApples is offline  
post #1490 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:28 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I flat out don't believe the answer to question 2. It contradicts other things I have heard from JVC here.
The current 65mm lens are very good all glass designs and were overbuilt for E-shift. What probably should have been asked would be if the QC and tolerances have been improved.
Bytehoven and CrazyEddie like this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1491 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
Based on feedback from Mike Garrett it's not, unfortunately. My throw distance is about 10' and my screen is 100", and I can't handle too much brightness.
Not a huge amount of 440's, 540's and 640's left, but particularly 540's. I would not call around 100 a lot of 440's, for the whole US.
Craig Peer likes this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1492 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,905
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
I don't believe that DFO is designed to correct any deficiency in the VPLL7013 lens. The VPLL7013 is a state of the art piece of kit which has one more ED element that the lens in the RS4500. Edge fidelity is about the best you can buy on any projector on the planet.

Sounds like a marketing feature that engineering threw in because they could. Someone at Pro suggested that it could have a similar effect as the peripheral field improvement using a curved screen but I am skeptical.

I'm just trying to figure out why they would need edge correction with a precision lens, RC is already there . Was just taking a stab at the rationale behind this additional correction , it's certainly there for some reason .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #1493 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,038
Mentioned: 314 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5382 Post(s)
Liked: 5465
Nigel and Ran, thanks for all the feedback and impressions, much appreciated.

I guess the good news is that the N9 without a DI didn't leave you wanting from a black floor / contrast point of view despite the -3 manual iris setting. Unfortunately it's also really hard, as expected, to interpolate what an N7 would look like, with the lower native on/off, the lesser lens and possibly less ANSI contrast (as there is no certainly that the improvements reported by JVC are for all three models).

I agree with Madshi, if the noise was absent when playing native 4K, then it might by the 1080p upscaling, but we need to know the source and how it was set-up. It could be the source upscaling if the source was outputting 4K, or it could be the PJ upscaling if the source was outputting 1080p.

Poor upscaling in the PJ wouldn't be such a big issue for MadVR users as long as their is no such artifacts when playing native 4K (or 1080p better upscaled by the source).

Banding is concerning too, but again that could be the source. So what was the player?

Disappointing that bright corners aren't solved.

And Nigel, regarding "We were unable to take measurements and JVC were not agreeable to confirming this yet", you now know why I'm not surprised given that it was a pre-prod unit in a showroom. It's if they had let you do this that I would have been surprised. It would have been a world first. So don't feel bad about it, nothing to do with you

Thanks again to both of you for sharing as much information as you could and providing both objective answers and subjective impressions.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 08-31-2018 at 11:47 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
post #1494 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,841
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12021 Post(s)
Liked: 9541
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasta666 View Post
Thanks. Very honest opinion it seems. Of course without your usual test material it is harder to judge. Plus the dynamic iris is not ready yet and it will probably change some things.
What I find surprising that no one is commenting, that the blacks and contrast looked very good on a 12.5' wide 1.3 gain screen with no dynamic dimming being used. That tells me that the contrast with iris open must be pretty good.

Added
I see they are. Thread moving fast.
Craig Peer and ARROW-AV like this.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 08-31-2018 at 11:59 AM.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #1495 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,038
Mentioned: 314 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5382 Post(s)
Liked: 5465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
What I find surprising that no one is commenting, that the blacks and contrast looked very good on a 12.5' wide 1.3 gain screen with no dynamic dimming being used. That tells me that the contrast with iris open must be pretty good.
I did comment on that, in the post just above yours, but you might have been writing while I was posting
ARROW-AV likes this.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
Manni01 is offline  
post #1496 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,905
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2762 Post(s)
Liked: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
Sony was not able to increase the ANSi over the 450:1 mark of the VW95 and in fact have regressed to < 400:1 in recent models.

IIRC you did some on-screen in room ANSI CR measurements back in the day as part of the AVS contrast project. Where did your on-screen measurements finally top out?

I was part of some testing recently where we measured RS4500 (50:1) GTZ240 (75:1) in a brown walled conference room and RS4500 (220:1) and GTZ240 (300:1) in a velvet bat cave.

Were you ever able to measure over 300:1 after your room improvements.

Apologies if I have confused you with another poster!

Perfect example of how the room is the biggest variable . ANSI is relative to the room it is used in , you get the best ANSI in a perfect bat cave , much less in a poor light controlled environment . ON/OFF is also poor in a less than ideal room .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #1497 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3920 Post(s)
Liked: 6366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
Secondly, it completed nailed the Quick Brown Fox test pattern, with perfect sharpness (aside from the projector having been set out of focus slightly) and perfect focus uniformity right across the whole image. The RGB convergence was also very good indeed all things considered; and the image was devoid of any and all streaking / ghosting / smearing, comprising an exceptionally clean and razor sharp image, even when viewed at extremely close proximity of less than 1 metre away, with superb contrast and dynamic range:





Wow this fox pattern looks amazing.. And the picture above is sick!!!!
Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals.

The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing.

It was/is essentially as good as the JVC RS4500/Z1 in this regard, but with superior contrast.

The NX9 is nothing short of amazing. I am of course assuming here that the various issues afflicting the pre-production unit will be fixed with respect to the production units, wherein if they are then in my opinion the JVC NX9 will be one of the best performing home theater/cinema projectors in the world as of right now, particularly at the respective price range


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 08-31-2018 at 12:58 PM.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #1498 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I'm just trying to figure out why they would need edge correction with a precision lens, RC is already there . Was just taking a stab at the rationale behind this additional correction , it's certainly there for some reason .
There are a lot of features that you can use or not use depending on your personal preferences. IIRC Vincent said that the lens is pin sharp and if he toggled DFO on and off he had to be right at the screen to see a slight difference.
roxiedog13 likes this.
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #1499 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,803
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1817 Post(s)
Liked: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started scrutinizing it up close and taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals. The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing. It was/is essentially as good as the JVC RS4500/Z1 in this regard, but with superior contrast.

The NX9 is nothing short of amazing. I am of course assuming here that the various issues afflicting the pre-production unit will be fixed with respect to the production units, wherein if they are then in my opinion the JVC NX9 will be one of the best performing home theater/cinema projectors in the world as of right now, particularly at the respective price range

Sounds great Arrow.

When do you think you will get to review the new Sony 870?
GregCh is offline  
post #1500 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 24,215
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6516 Post(s)
Liked: 6487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started scrutinizing it up close and taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals.

The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing.
To bad you can not take it home at close and bring it back the next day before they open.... lol.
David Mathews and ARROW-AV like this.
Cleveland Plasma is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
eshift , Jvc , native 4k , projector , uhd

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off