NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1501 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started scrutinizing it up close and taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals.

The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing.

It was/is essentially as good as the JVC RS4500/Z1 in this regard, but with superior contrast.

The NX9 is nothing short of amazing. I am of course assuming here that the various issues afflicting the pre-production unit will be fixed with respect to the production units, wherein if they are then in my opinion the JVC NX9 will be one of the best performing home theater/cinema projectors in the world as of right now, particularly at the respective price range

So my only question would be, now that you have seen the NX9 and know the 540/640 performance, for somebody like me that this is going to be his first JVC projector, should I go with the N7 or the RS640? The N7 would be the max I can afford, though.

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post #1502 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffindodd View Post
OK, I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn on many areas of image quality, but I can't help but bang my head against the table with some of the snake oil and seemingly odd decisions coming out of some of these announcements...



It's got 8K with e-shift!!!!! but only 18gbps HDMI!!!!!! So even when you have 8K content.....you can't watch it on this device YAY!!!! But think of all those beautiful dots you'll be able to see when you sit 4ft away from a 20ft screen.......but it's only 2,200 lumens, with the Iris wide open, so it will be too dim to see those dots....... AND ALL FOR ONLY 17,000 EUROS!!!



The 5 and 7 seem a little more reasonable in their tech and price points, but good lord, the 9 has some very questionable 'features'



</ENDRANT>


I agree about 8K being overkill. But the key here is that the projector only needs to accept a 4K HDR signal and we only need 18Gbps for that. The 8K e-shift enhances the 4K image. 8K e-shift is not about accepting an 8K signal.

My only concern is that I hope we can leave the e-shift off for 4K signals if we want to.


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post #1503 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
So my only question would be, now that you have seen the NX9 and know the 540/640 performance, for somebody like me that this is going to be his first JVC projector, should I go with the N7 or the RS640? The N7 would be the max I can afford, though.
Depends on the US pricing of these new units.........The way it looks so far, you being a novice, probably RS640U..........
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post #1504 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:15 AM
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@ARROW-AV

Can you confirm that we can leave e-shift off when the NX9 is fed a 4K signal?


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post #1505 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:16 AM
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NEW JVC DLA-NX9, DLA-N7, DLA N5 Native 4K Lamp-Based Projector Anticipation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Depends on the US pricing of these new units.........The way it looks so far, you being a novice, probably RS640U..........

What in the world does being a novice have to do with trying to get the best image quality? That is what ChadB is for !

So I should not buy the NX9 since I am not a projector designer?


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post #1506 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
@ARROW-AV

Can you confirm that we can leave e-shift off when the NX9 is fed a 4K signal?
Yes you can

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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I guess the good news is that the N9 without a DI didn't leave you wanting from a black floor / contrast point of view despite the -3 manual iris setting.
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
What I find surprising that no one is commenting, that the blacks and contrast looked very good on a 12.5' wide 1.3 gain screen with no dynamic dimming being used. That tells me that the contrast with iris open must be pretty good.
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I did comment on that, in the post just above yours, but you might have been writing while I was posting
Definitely good news. I just can't wait to see what the hell this thing looks like with the dynamic contrast functionality working!

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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Sounds great Arrow.

When do you think you will get to review the new Sony 870?
I have a private meeting with SONY at 9:00am tomorrow morning

Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
So my only question would be, now that you have seen the NX9 and know the 540/640 performance, for somebody like me that this is going to be his first JVC projector, should I go with the N7 or the RS640? The N7 would be the max I can afford, though.
Unfortunately I really can't comment properly until after I have evaluated the N7 both in its own right and as compared with the RS640/X9900... which by the way I will be doing ASAP with respect to both, following receipt of delivery of my units end of October.

@Manni01 summed things up very well with respect to this when he said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Unfortunately it's also really hard, as expected, to interpolate what an N7 would look like, with the lower native on/off, the lesser lens and possibly less ANSI contrast (as there is no certainly that the improvements reported by JVC are for all three models).
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post #1507 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I agree about 8K being overkill. But the key here is that the projector only needs to accept a 4K HDR signal and we only need 18Gbps for that. The 8K e-shift enhances the 4K image. 8K e-shift is not about accepting an 8K signal.

My only concern is that I hope we can leave the e-shift off for 4K signals if we want to.
I agree on your 4K points except the idea that 8K e-shift in any way enhances a 4K image in any real world practical way. I think we all know that 8K is about as much use as a chocolate soldering iron at this point (or perhaps any point outside of Virtual Reality) and that it's nothing more than an unnecessary number race so that fly boys can compare the size of their pixel count.

Outisde of this it sounds like the N9 is an amazing product that can stand on much more substantial and real merits.

God I hate marketing depts.
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post #1508 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:30 AM
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I may have missed it due to the speed this thread is moving, but any idea on the response time of these projectors?

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post #1509 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffindodd View Post
I agree on your 4K points except the idea that 8K e-shift in any way enhances a 4K image in any real world practical way. I think we all know that 8K is about as much use as a chocolate soldering iron at this point (or perhaps any point outside of Virtual Reality) and that it's nothing more than an unnecessary number race so that fly boys can compare the size of their pixel count.



Outisde of this it sounds like the N9 is an amazing product that can stand on much more substantial and real merits.



God I hate marketing depts.

Totally agree about 8K eshift. Maybe if I sit 3 ft from my screen I will discern a slight difference


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post #1510 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Totally agree about 8K eshift. Maybe if I sit 3 ft from my screen I will discern a slight difference


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8K eshift is like 3D - it's there if you want it. If not, leave it off. Who knows - maybe you'll like it for certain content !
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post #1511 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Let me put it this way... As soon as I put that test pattern on absolutely everyone in the room went completely nuts and started scrutinizing it up close and taking photos with their phones. It quite literally blew everyone in the room away. It was/is probably one of the strongest positive reactions that I have ever seen with respect to a new projector by a room full of AV professionals.

The same applied to the single pixel native 4K Masciola test pattern. Nobody could believe what they were seeing.

It was/is essentially as good as the JVC RS4500/Z1 in this regard, but with superior contrast.

The NX9 is nothing short of amazing. I am of course assuming here that the various issues afflicting the pre-production unit will be fixed with respect to the production units, wherein if they are then in my opinion the JVC NX9 will be one of the best performing home theater/cinema projectors in the world as of right now, particularly at the respective price range

Did you do the test with e-shift ON and OFF to compare sharpness?

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post #1512 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
10. Bright Corners (my absolute nightmare) is a well known issue, which currently can NOT be solved under current conditions and pricing. Asked about this "picking the best parts stuff" (which is a thing of the past now, but still made me wonder...) and they said it has nothing to do or no effect on bright corners what so ever, just lens and better contrast.
Thanks for this, really interesting reading.
The bright corners discussion sounds like a real disappointment and something that I find bothersome as I've just gone from a great unit to one I think is pretty gross (but sounds like it might be just average).
Any idea what the expectation is for what level of corners is acceptable and how this chimes with the quoted contrast ratios? My own testing seems to show a 5x reduction in CR in the bright corner areas of my X7900


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post #1513 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:11 PM
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According to John Archer (Forbes) a correction on the price has been made by JVC and the prices went up a bit as follow:

N5: 6499 Euro
N7: 8499 Euro
NX9: 18599 Euro

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#6170ba3c6cf8

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post #1514 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
8K eshift is like 3D - it's there if you want it. If not, leave it off. Who knows - maybe you'll like it for certain content !

That’s true.


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post #1515 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
According to John Archer (Forbes) a correction on the price has been made by JVC and the prices went up a bit as follow:



N5: 6499 Euro

N7: 8499 Euro

NX9: 18599 Euro



https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#6170ba3c6cf8


I am really hoping MSRP in the USA for the 9 series is no more than $15k.


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post #1516 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
So my only question would be, now that you have seen the NX9 and know the 540/640 performance, for somebody like me that this is going to be his first JVC projector, should I go with the N7 or the RS640? The N7 would be the max I can afford, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
According to John Archer (Forbes) a correction on the price has been made by JVC and the prices went up a bit as follow:

N5: 6499 Euro
N7: 8499 Euro
NX9: 18599 Euro

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#6170ba3c6cf8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Not a huge amount of 440's, 540's and 640's left, but particularly 540's. I would not call around 100 a lot of 440's, for the whole US.
Will be very interesting to see the US pricing this week at CEDIA. I suspect the 540 will remain the price-to-performance king for a while yet. Not surprised that the 540 inventory is so low - either JVC smartly managed it down in channel or customers purchased it in anticipation of a big price hike for equivalent 4K model...?
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post #1517 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I am really hoping MSRP in the USA for the 9 series is no more than $15k.
I wasn't expecting it to be that low but if it is then I have to completely rethink my budgetary decision between the N7 and the NX9.
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post #1518 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:39 PM
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My RS-35 is getting replaced in the next couple of years...by what, I am not yet sure. I am open to recommendations; I have a bat cave and a 110" Stewart StudioTek 130 screen.

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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
You held out longer than I did. My RS35 got replaced by a 640 last year.

At this time, my thought would be to look for clearance pricing on an RS540. Let that carry you for at least a couple of years until after the teething pains of this new chassis have been settled out.
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Not many 540's left in the US.
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Great plan.......

Come on, that's not the AVS way...lol
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Mike has confirmed the current range was end of life, and stocks are running low (at least for 540), so if you want a new one, don’t wait. There will be plenty of used ones soon though
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Not a huge amount of 440's, 540's and 640's left, but particularly 540's. I would not call around 100 a lot of 440's, for the whole US.
Thanks for the input. I have no objections to a "flight-proven" used RS540 or RS640 at a really good price, as I only typically watch one movie a week in the theater. And even that is challenging sometimes. I actually purchased the RS35 used from through William Phelps, as it had belonged to one of his customers.

Mark
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post #1519 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:42 PM
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That is a decent % price increase on the low end model from where a 440 is at right now. I'm surprised they are retiring the 440 rather than keep it in the lineup for another year.

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post #1520 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Did you do the test with e-shift ON and OFF to compare sharpness?
I did; however, I only had time to do one instance of the test, and with just one test pattern (Quick Brown Fox), so I have by no means properly evaluated to 8K eshift. Quite honestly, I could not perceive any difference. But like I have said, I need to carryout more comprehensive testing before I can for an opinion or draw any conclusions. It probably did not help that the focus was imperfectly set either

It's also worth noting that it's not true 8K resolution... 4K eshifted yields circa 6K.

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post #1521 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The 4500 was hard to let go. Best projector I have had in my room. But if I keep one year, then I can get my money out of it and be ready for next new projector. With this plan, you need a backup projector, because you will be using it for a few weeks. I have a few backup projectors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
According to John Archer (Forbes) a correction on the price has been made by JVC and the prices went up a bit as follow:

N5: 6499 Euro
N7: 8499 Euro
NX9: 18599 Euro

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#6170ba3c6cf8
Based on history and how the US MSRP was discounted compared to the Euro MSRP, can anyone make an decent guestimate on what the US MSRP may look like then for these models?
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post #1522 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I did; however, I only had time to do one instance of the test, and with just one test pattern (Quick Brown Fox), so I have by no means properly evaluated to 8K eshift. Quite honestly, I could not perceive any difference. But like I have said, I need to carryout more comprehensive testing before I can for an opinion or draw any conclusions. It probably did not help that the focus was imperfectly set either

It's also worth noting that it's not true 8K resolution... 4K eshifted yields circa 6K.

.
We will have more time next week !
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post #1523 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 12:59 PM
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Does no one else think JVC is shooting themselves in the foot with these prices? They are widening the delta from low cost to high end. Not really any middle market.



It's a huge increase from current models just to basically have a native 4K chip when e-shift was really close enough. How good the lens is with streaking and the new chip and how it handles black level uniformity remains to be seen. But honestly, something they should have worked on the past few years/models anyway.


I feel they should have gone laser instead. Held off on native 4K chips til next year or later. And introduced a newer RS4500 to justify that cost and market segment. Makes me think they have yet to work out any laser improvements for brightness and contrast.


To top it off, who's going to spend almost $20k on a lamp based projector? Isn't a new Sony Laser about to drop around that price range? Even if not, they'd be better suited looking for a good used 4500. But really, someone who has the budget for a $20k projector, they probably could be able to squeeze a little more for a laser.



The economy is not doing as well as everyone thinks. High cost of living (and increasing every year), especially in the housing market (be it rental or owning), coupled with wage stagnation, makes me think these will not be as hot a seller as previous models.



Time will tell...
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post #1524 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:03 PM
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Based on history and how the US MSRP was discounted compared to the Euro MSRP, can anyone make an decent guestimate on what the US MSRP may look like then for these models?
This price is too high now.. I liked the way it was yesterday...

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post #1525 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:11 PM
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Be interesting to see where the price ends up for the US market. We've seen that European pricing doesn't always indicate what we get here. I'm hoping that JVC manages to get the N7 here in the $7-8K range. Street pricing after the new shiny factor calms down would probably put that in reach of most RS5xx buyers. Time will tell.

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post #1526 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:12 PM
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Now that they are hitting 2200 lumens at 4k with good contrast, I think that they should come in with laser at 4000-5000 lumens. Of course this will be more $ but will help separate the lines.

Assuming of course that JVC plans to continue down the laser path for HT.
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post #1527 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Does no one else think JVC is shooting themselves in the foot with these prices? They are widening the delta from low cost to high end. Not really any middle market.

...

To top it off, who's going to spend almost $20k on a lamp based projector? Isn't a new Sony Laser about to drop around that price range? Even if not, they'd be better suited looking for a good used 4500. But really, someone who has the budget for a $20k projector, they probably could be able to squeeze a little more for a laser.
100%. I would totally pay a bit extra for a VW870ES over the NX9. If starved for lumens, the NX9 could easily burn through hundreds of dollars worth of bulbs (if not thousands, depending on how long you keep it) if one was looking for a long-term purchase between these two.

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post #1528 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:15 PM
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post #1529 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:22 PM
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That is ridiculous and the way you describe your "two camps" is clear proof.

The initial focus groups used in initial testing and refinement of most of the image processing features are typically production or post production professionals in lab controlled double blind settings.

All these technologies use image processing in one form or another to put the best image on the screen. E-shift is image processing. Dynamic contrast is image processing. Excessive ditter to combat PWM created artifacts in near black is image processing.
We are talking specifically of the claims that reality creation is adding something useful to 4K content particularly if it has been subject to 2KDI.

The reason these arguments are bunkem is that this processing for the most part can and will have been added at the head end. Sony have a long history of making and selling professional video tools. If this was a silver bullet you'd already be buying 4K 2KDI content that had been through the process, and then you're telling me it would still be right to process it again to restore even more? Say there is some content out there that does need processing. How do you / the algorithms know if the 4k content needs the extra processing or not?

There is a specific case for processing that makes sense in the display. (actually in the player source is better). This would be algorithms specifically to try and counteract the effects of 4:2:0 chroma subsampling and to attempt to back out negative effects of video compression. But you would really need knowledge of the source media which is why this lives better in the source player - by the time it is pixels on an HDMI cable you don't know what compression has occurred that you want to try and improve

I personally put the implementations I've seen of DI in a similar box of undesirable meddling.

There is obviously some processing which makes complete sense but these usually have controlled input / output conditions.

For me RC does make sense if it is trying to forwards sharpen something before it goes through something which could be better and has known behaviour; eg a lens which could be better, and funnily enough that is happening in the latest projectors.



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post #1530 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
Now that they are hitting 2200 lumens at 4k with good contrast, I think that they should come in with laser at 4000-5000 lumens. Of course this will be more $ but will help separate the lines.

Assuming of course that JVC plans to continue down the laser path for HT.
I could not agree more! A new flagship that's essentially an NX9 with laser light source, 5000 lumens, and HDR10+

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