NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
100K:1 native contrast is extremely close to the 130K:1 native of the RS540, and the RS440 claims 40K:1 native, which is the exact native of the N5, half of the N7 etc. So I'd say it does have the native contrast of the RS line.

JVC has never exaggerated its contrast measurements. No reason to think they started now. Feel free to be in disbelief, I believe it. Of course, I'll wait for a couple reviewers to verify before I buy anything.
I know they have never exaggerated their contrast numbers. However the pixel pitch is still 3.8um, the chip is still.69" aperture ratio is the same as the RS4500 chip. But yet the contrast has gone from 15,000:1 to 100,000:1. Could they be using a 'different method' to measure contrast than the previous projectors.

Granted, my skeptical side could be working overtime, all I'd like to know is are we comparing apples methods of measuring with apples methods of measuring.
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post #1592 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I give JVC a lot of credit. Tone mapping was an issue and JVC made efforts here to address that,
Not only that. People used to complaint A LOT about noisy e-shift. Well guess what, e-shift is gone for good so no more e-shift noise. People used to complaint about high lag time when switching inputs, well guess what, time was reduced by half. People used to complaint about non been 4K native, well guess what, now you have 4K native. People used to complaint about bad HDR implementation, well guess what now you have Auto Tone Mapping function. People used to complaint about 50% lost of luminance due to DCI-P3 filter, well guess what, luminance reduction when DCI-P3 filter is used is less with the new models. Now the new complaint is high prices, well guess what, improvements cost $$$, so people, instead of complaining just enjoy the good news. Just my 2 cents!!!

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post #1593 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I give JVC a lot of credit. Tone mapping was an issue and JVC made efforts here to address that,
Yes, and it seems their engineers were paying attention. Just look at the first post in this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...500-rs600.html . This is probably the most comprehensive and advanced calibration thread in the history of AVS. That shows that some serious tinkering was required to get the best out of these units. If things are what they seem, it looks like they have have taken a huge step forward in virtually eliminating the need for all which that thread covers. That said, advanced users may still have some benefit from custom curves, but for the vast majority it may be eliminated.

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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Also, USB updates and sync times reduced to half sound good to me. The bigger chassis also has the benefits of hopefully quieter fan noise and better cooling.
USB updates seem nice, although JVC doesn't have much of a history of releasing many updates. Yes hopefully the bigger chassis runs quieter. Unfortunately Ran did not spend time next to the pj to subjectively evaluate its noise level in high lamp.

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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
I'm thinking, not having an e-shift element in the way may help as well.
Yes and with ANSI CR as well.

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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Well this is interesting. Nice to see JVC managed to impress everyone this year.


I still don't see myself giving up my current RS600 as it has higher contrast than the N7, and I am doubtful the benefits of moving to a true 4K panel will amount to much for me, in terms of cost-to-benefit ratio. I'm just dipping my toes into 4K anyway, so I will keep the RS600 for at least another year.


One thing I'm curious about though: I do like the idea of not having to use things like the HDfury components. Will the new JVCs allow the use of the dynamic iris while showing 4K/HDR? Or would we still need an HDfury for that?
I think the JVC was more impressive on paper than it may have been in person. Still several things like banding and the DI to work out before we have a better idea of how it performs. Now in your case there is a wildcard that you may have not seen... The rumor is that the new units (perhaps the top end or supposedly all 3 models) will have about a 50% boost to ANSI CR. If true, it is possible that this ANSI CR increase could produce an improved picture over the RS600 despite having lower on/off CR. We'll need some in-depth testing to get a better idea.

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Because 4K *barely* makes a difference at seating distances. 8K is going to be even less of an impact and require you to be sitting about 4-6 feet from a 130" or bigger screen to even see it. No one is going to be ditching the NX9 for NX9v2 for 8k eshift.

NX9, on paper, sounds perfect to me. A replaceable lamp so I dont have to throw the projector away in a few years, contrast of the RS line with native 4K for games. I'll probably have to buy it.,
I sit 12.5 feet from a 140" wide 2.37 AR screen. When I look at a chart like this https://d18oqavmcmo3u.cloudfront.net...tion_chart.png I am right in the middle of the "UHD 4K benefits noticed" section. That's pretty close and a pretty large screen. So it seems there is SOME benefit to 4K for me but not a ton. And one could argue that eshift 4K would pretty much be hard to tell from native 4K in my setup. Therefore I don't put any value in eshift 8k. Let's get broadcast TV up to 4K first before we even start thinking about 8k...

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They(JVC) are hesitant to talk about how those contrast figures are achieved, is it true native or quasi native? remains to be confirmed.
That's a good point.
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post #1594 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 08:11 PM
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Considering JVC has upgraded to native 4K and there is a price hike, how do these models compare to the new Sony models? I don't see an active thread on Sony lineup.

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post #1595 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
I know they have never exaggerated their contrast numbers. However the pixel pitch is still 3.8um, the chip is still.69" aperture ratio is the same as the RS4500 chip. But yet the contrast has gone from 15,000:1 to 100,000:1. Could they be using a 'different method' to measure contrast than the previous projectors.

Granted, my skeptical side could be working overtime, all I'd like to know is are we comparing apples methods of measuring with apples methods of measuring.
I don't understand this skepticism of JVC's stated contrast. JVC stated native and they stated manual iris does not close down more in these models than it does in the current models. just because you did not expect, did not think they could, can't figure out how they did it and because JVC will not divulge trade secrets, does not mean JVC is playing games. Why not just say you are looking forward to reviews showing what the projector can do with iris open?
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post #1596 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Not only that. People used to complaint A LOT about noisy e-shift. Well guess what, e-shift is gone for good so no more e-shift noise. People used to complaint about high lag time when switching inputs, well guess what, time was reduced by half. People used to complaint about non been 4K native, well guess what, now you have 4K native. People used to complaint about bad HDR implementation, well guess what now you have Auto Tone Mapping function. People used to complaint about 50% lost of luminance due to DCI-P3 filter, well guess what, luminance reduction when DCI-P3 filter is used is less with the new models. Now the new complaint is high prices, well guess what, improvements cost $$$, so people, instead of complaining just enjoy the good news. Just my 2 cents!!!
Umm, what about the NX9? It has e-shift. So the NX9 will be more noisy than the N5 and N7??
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post #1597 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:15 PM
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Umm, what about the NX9? It has e-shift. So the NX9 will be more noisy than the N5 and N7??
According to Niles (Arrow) the NX9 has zero (0) noise with e-shift ON. Also, on the NX9, e-shift can be turned OFF when feed with 4K signal.
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post #1598 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I don't understand this skepticism of JVC's stated contrast. JVC stated native and they stated manual iris does not close down more in these models than it does in the current models. just because you did not expect, did not think they could, can't figure out how they did it and because JVC will not divulge trade secrets, does not mean JVC is playing games. Why not just say you are looking forward to reviews showing what the projector can do with iris open?
I agree Mike. JVC will not spill the beans and tell their trade secrets. Sony could take advantage of something like that. Personally, I don't care how JVC did it, as long as they delivered....and boy did they! I can't wait for measurements
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post #1599 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I don't understand this skepticism of JVC's stated contrast. JVC stated native and they stated manual iris does not close down more in these models than it does in the current models. just because you did not expect, did not think they could, can't figure out how they did it and because JVC will not divulge trade secrets, does not mean JVC is playing games. Why not just say you are looking forward to reviews showing what the projector can do with iris open?

The skepticism come from the basis that the chip used is basically the same chip they are using in the RS4500. For JVC to say in simple terms how they did it, is no big deal, they don't have to go into detail, just a general breakdown would be fine. Once the projector is on the market, other manufacturers can purchase a sample or two and dissect the heck out of it.

However if the native contrast figure is arrived at using a different method than say how the previous generation is measured, then it would be good to know. The previous gen's top two models have a lamp iris that works in conjunction with a manual iris and a lens DI that works independently, except it's max aperture is linked to the manual iris's setting. Sure the lens DI's minimum aperture is the same as the previous gen as stated, but is the lamp aperture now dynamic as well, closing down more in low APL scenes unlike the previous generation, reflecting the much higher apparent end result in this case?

At the end of the day, figure aside, it's the viewing experience that counts and I'm sure that's stellar. It's curiosity I guess, native contrast wise, are we comparing apples methods of function and measuring, with apples methods of function and measuring?

We are bound to find out sooner or later.
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post #1600 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
I wouldn't worry, I think the sales of the e-shift models were tapering off, with some folks jumping ship to the competition. In a few years these 4k models would have caught up to the contrast of their outgoing brethren.

Grab an e-shift model now if you're a contrast fiend like me.
I have an X7500 with a spare lamp, so no hurry to throw that out yet for a 4K model, since most of what I watch are still 1080p. The NX9 is out of my price range, the N7 would be a replacement, but it has a lower contrast ratio - just need to wait and see if it gives a better picture with real world content (i.e. lower ON-OFF but better ANSI contrast). Will also observe how the QC is on these N7's. For example, mine has no bright corners, but I am not too happy about some of the lamp flickering that can be seen at times.
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post #1601 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:35 PM
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After spending a few hours wading through the initial hype and noise of this thread, I came away disappointed with the conclusion. Especially after waiting 8 years for JVC to release a new chassis. My main complaints about the 1080p lineup don't appear to have been addressed:

The youtube video linked by Nexgen76 a few pages back shows clear image flickering. I know this sort of thing can be exaggerated by differences in camera sync but it does prove that JVC is still using a similar refresh method to what they used on the 1080p models. They also appear to be using essentially the same lamp. Some of us find that pulsating flicker distracting and annoying on brighter content.

They admitted that bright corners are still an ongoing problem.

Image noise that was present on the 1080p models is still there. Guess the supposed "12-bit" panels still can't resolve full color-depth without resorting to temporal dithering like 6-bit FRC computer monitors. The reports of color banding/posterization are not encouraging. Was that banding visible in motion (as on current 1080p models) or even visible on static images?

Same old lens on the lower cost models probably means same issues with internal reflections. We'll see about the claims of improved vertical streaking. Was that claim made for the lower models or just the high-end lens of the N9?

At least no more e-shift buzzing for 4K content. Probably impossible with the background noise of a show floor but can anyone who was at IFA comment on fan noise?

Will make final judgement after seeing it (and the new Sony models) myself at Cedia but based on what I've heard so far, I'm leaning towards looking for a used RS4500. Hopefully there will be some good deals from people "upgrading" to these newer models.
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post #1602 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 703 View Post
I have an X7500 with a spare lamp, so no hurry to throw that out yet for a 4K model, since most of what I watch are still 1080p. The NX9 is out of my price range, the N7 would be a replacement, but it has a lower contrast ratio - just need to wait and see if it gives a better picture with real world content (i.e. lower ON-OFF but better ANSI contrast). Will also observe how the QC is on these N7's. For example, mine has no bright corners, but I am not too happy about some of the lamp flickering that can be seen at times.
Nice projector!

I'd enjoy that for a few years, the JVC 4k units contrast will improve over the next gen or two and surely catch up. I think my next upgrade will be something like a NX10x Laser, 175,000:1 contrast......... $15,000.00 Max
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post #1603 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Nice projector!

I'd enjoy that for a few years, the JVC 4k units contrast will improve over the next gen or two and surely catch up. I think my next upgrade will be something like a NX10x Laser, 175,000:1 contrast......... $15,000.00 Max
Hey, I was going to buy that projector.
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post #1604 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:47 PM
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For those who want to know the dimensions:



Note that the lamp is a different model to the current generation.



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post #1605 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
According to John Archer (Forbes) a correction on the price has been made by JVC and the prices went up a bit as follow:

N5: 6499 Euro
N7: 8499 Euro
NX9: 18599 Euro

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#6170ba3c6cf8
Can anyone else confirm this pricing. Forbes has the higher pricing, but other sites show 5500/8000 Euros for the N5/N7. If this is true, the pricing is very ambitious, on the N5/7...the N5 comes un 1500 euros over Sony and the N7 500 euros over Sony. I don't see them doing so well with the average customer with that pricing, combined with Sony's better brand perception.
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post #1606 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:48 PM
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What noise are you talkling about? There is no noise in the picture. Only a little coming from the input signal and regular dila noise.

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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
I was asked earlier what was the source that was used for the demo, well it was an Oppo UHD player playing UHD discs and some stuff from a USB stick.

No idea how it was set-up, but the noise was there ON ALL content i.e 1080p and 4k.

Hopefully this, and the banding I saw (pretty bad actually, and several times) will be ironed out in the production unit.

Ran
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post #1607 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 10:59 PM
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So we have

JVC 590R / 440 = 34.0 lbs / 17 7/8 W x 18 9/16 D x 7 H / 1800 lumens / 40,000:1 Native
JVC 790R / 540 = 34.4 lbs / 17 7/8 W x 18 9/16 D x 7 H / 1900 lumens / 130,000:1 Native
JVC 990R / 640 = 34.4 lbs / 17 7/8 W x 18 9/16 D x 7 H / 2000 lumens / 160,000:1 Native

JVC RS4500K / Z1 = 82.67 lbs / 19 11/16 W x 28 3/4 D x 9 1/4 H / 3000 lumens /

JVC N5 = 43.6 lbs / 19 11/16 W x 19 1/2 D x 9 1/4 H / 1800 lumens / 40,000:1 Native
JVC N7 = 43.6 lbs / 19 11/16 W x 19 1/2 D x 9 1/4 H / 1900 lumens / 80,000:1 Native
JVC NX9 = 48.0lbs / 19 11/16 W x 20 3/8 D x 9 1/4 H / 2200 lumens / 100,000:1 Native

So new chassis are same width and height as the Z1, just a bit shorter. Looks to of gained 9 to 14 lbs over the 990R.

Wanting an NX9..

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malba2366 View Post
Can anyone else confirm this pricing. Forbes has the higher pricing, but other sites show 5500/8000 Euros for the N5/N7. If this is true, the pricing is very ambitious, on the N5/7...the N5 comes un 1500 euros over Sony and the N7 500 euros over Sony. I don't see them doing so well with the average customer with that pricing, combined with Sony's better brand perception.
In this order, in EUROS

5999
7999
17999
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post #1609 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by racecardriver View Post
so we have

jvc 590r / 440 = 34.0 lbs / 17 7/8 w x 18 9/16 d x 7 h / 1800 lumens / 40,000:1 native
jvc 790r / 540 = 34.4 lbs / 17 7/8 w x 18 9/16 d x 7 h / 1900 lumens / 130,000:1 native
jvc 990r / 640 = 34.4 lbs / 17 7/8 w x 18 9/16 d x 7 h / 2000 lumens / 160,000:1 native

jvc rs4500k / z1 = 82.67 lbs / 19 11/16 w x 28 3/4 d x 9 1/4 h / 3000 lumens /

jvc n5 = 43.6 lbs / 19 11/16 w x 19 1/2 d x 9 1/4 h / 1800 lumens / 40,000:1 native
jvc n7 = 43.6 lbs / 19 11/16 w x 19 1/2 d x 9 1/4 h / 1900 lumens / 130,000:1 native
jvc nx9 = 48.0lbs / 19 11/16 w x 20 3/8 d x 9 1/4 h / 2200 lumens / 100,000:1 native

so new chassis are same width and height as the z1, just a bit shorter. Looks to of gained 9 to 14 lbs over the 990r.

Wanting an nx9..
80,000:1 n7

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post #1610 of 13653 Old 08-31-2018, 11:46 PM
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Yep, copy paste edit fail on my part.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
JVC has never exaggerated its contrast measurements. No reason to think they started now. Feel free to be in disbelief, I believe it. Of course, I'll wait for a couple reviewers to verify before I buy anything.
Recent measurements I've taken in the brighter areas of my second 540 would say different - contrast on this unit I have is reduced five fold in those areas. I don't consider a measure that is only achieved in the centre of the screen to be particularly honest. It sounds like JVC's attitude to these areas is that they are expected so they should be represented in the spec.

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post #1612 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:22 AM
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Hey guys.

I have been asked some questions while I was asleep and this thread is moving fast, so just some clarifications on some of the stuff I said.

All the questions where asked before I saw any photage, the tech guy was not there when the demo was over so practically there was no one to really ask .

The mosquito noise I saw was very clear and it was on every stuff which was shown, 4k and 1080p, stuff from a disc or a usb stick, it was there and it was very clear to me. Turning e.shift off did not solve this.

Banding was also clear to see and I saw it for 3-4 times each demo and I'm not that banding sensitive...

As to bright corners, which on the other hand I'm very sensitive to.
The room at some parts of the demo was quite dark ,certainly not a bat cave but still dark, I couldn't say that I noticed Bright corners but then again there where no fade to blacks which would have helped to spot them.
As mentioned this is something that they are aware of and can not be solved under current conditions.

I was impressed with the Contrast during the second demo which in fact was identical to the first.
In fact I thought that the first demo was a joke in terms of contrast, but something changed in the second demo and it wasn't the DI.
I did look at the Iris on the second demo and it was on -3. It looked very good actually.

The Balcony scene from Skyfall which I know so well, looked impressive, though I can't honestly say that it made me feel that I'm looking at a sharper picture than the one I'm used to, not in any way.

As mentioned, brightness was OK but at no point did I think that there is some head room.

As to size. The first reaction I had was that this thing might be too big and what I immediately thought of was how similar in size this is to the Sony 760 laser.

At some time during my interrogation (probably that's how he felt) I asked the tech guy (with a smile..) if there measuring technique has somehow changed just to get an idea about the new contrast numbers and he said NO.

I'll be returning to the show on Sunday and I'm going to have another look and perhaps, if possible, see some of my stuff and ask some more questions, though Sunday may be crowded so probably just the public demo and no questions , will see..

Ran
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post #1613 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Hey guys.

I have been asked some questions while I was asleep and this thread is moving fast, so just some clarifications on some of the stuff I said.

All the questions where asked before I saw any photage, the tech guy was not there when the demo was over so practically there was no one to really ask .

The mosquito noise I saw was very clear and it was on every stuff which was shown, 4k and 1080p, stuff from a disc or a usb stick, it was there and it was very clear to me. Turning e.shift off did not solve this.

Banding was also clear to see and I saw it for 3-4 times each demo and I'm not that banding sensitive...

As to bright corners, which on the other hand I'm very sensitive to.
The room at some parts of the demo was quite dark ,certainly not a bat cave but still dark, I couldn't say that I noticed Bright corners but then again there where no fade to blacks which would have helped to spot them.
As mentioned this is something that they are aware of and can not be solved under current conditions.

I was impressed with the Contrast during the second demo which in fact was identical to the first.
In fact I thought that the first demo was a joke in terms of contrast, but something changed in the second demo and it wasn't the DI.
I did look at the Iris on the second demo and it was on -3. It looked very good actually.

The Balcony scene from Skyfall which I know so well, looked impressive, though I can't honestly say that it made me feel that I'm looking at a sharper picture than the one I'm used to, not in any way.

As mentioned, brightness was OK but at no point did I think that there is some head room.

As to size. The first reaction I had was that this thing might be too big and what I immediately thought of was how similar in size this is to the Sony 760 laser.

At some time during my interrogation (probably that's how he felt) I asked the tech guy (with a smile..) if there measuring technique has somehow changed just to get an idea about the new contrast numbers and he said NO.

I'll be returning to the show on Sunday and I'm going to have another look and perhaps, if possible, see some of my stuff and ask some more questions, though Sunday may be crowded so probably just the public demo and no questions , will see..

Ran
Nice! Most of those issues should be ironed out in the production units.

Could you ask if the lamp iris is active/dynamic at low video levels on the new units, operating independently of the manual iris, not static like the previous generation, tied in with the manual iris.

Thanks.

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post #1614 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:02 AM
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T



Recent measurements I've taken in the brighter areas of my second 540 would say different - contrast on this unit I have is reduced five fold in those areas. I don't consider a measure that is only achieved in the centre of the screen to be particularly honest. It sounds like JVC's attitude to these areas is that they are expected so they should be represented in the spec.
I'm sorry your unit sucked. Mine happens to be great, and I see no differences in the corners in a black screen than in the center. Since I don't believe native contrast is measured by taking every unit in production and averaging all their variances, I don't consider this JVC lying on their specs. Most others don't either.
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post #1615 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Nice! Most of those issues should be ironed out in the production units.

Could you ask if the lamp iris is active/dynamic at low video levels on the new units, operating independently of the manual iris, not static like the previous generation, tied in with the manual iris.

Thanks.
Is it even confirmed that there are still dual irises? I'm not sure I've seen that detail (might have missed it)

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post #1616 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:11 AM
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The skepticism come from the basis that the chip used is basically the same chip they are using in the RS4500. For JVC to say in simple terms how they did it, is no big deal, they don't have to go into detail, just a general breakdown would be fine. Once the projector is on the market, other manufacturers can purchase a sample or two and dissect the heck out of it.

However if the native contrast figure is arrived at using a different method than say how the previous generation is measured, then it would be good to know. The previous gen's top two models have a lamp iris that works in conjunction with a manual iris and a lens DI that works independently, except it's max aperture is linked to the manual iris's setting. Sure the lens DI's minimum aperture is the same as the previous gen as stated, but is the lamp aperture now dynamic as well, closing down more in low APL scenes unlike the previous generation, reflecting the much higher apparent end result in this case?
Again, this is dynamic contrast. They provided native contrast numbers. That has nothing to do with an iris dynamically changing. They also provided a dynamic contrast number of about 10x the native number where this would be taken into account. The only "trickery" they could have done to fudge the numbers would have been if the iris at -15 or whatever the max closed setting was, resulted in a more clamped down aperture than the RS640 line at -15. That would have yielded a better contrast ratio but a less usable image at that setting and was speculated as one method they used to get a comparable native contrast measurement. This was explicitly asked to JVC and they said this is *not* the case and that the -15 is about the same aperture as as the RS640 at -15.

I guess it's says a lot that JVC's numbers are so good you're in complete disbelief. I guess you should just wait for reviewers to take measurements and report back. I am going to do the same, but I am not in disbelief. JVC hasn't been deceptive with its contrast numbers in the past.

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post #1617 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:14 AM
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Will be going to IFA on Sunday and looking forward for the JVC presentation. I currently own an X7000 fed through a Lumagen Pro. Will either go for the N7 or NX9 as an upgrade but will wait until my dealer has both units to compare in depth!
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post #1618 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:14 AM
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I have an X7500 with a spare lamp, so no hurry to throw that out yet for a 4K model, since most of what I watch are still 1080p. The NX9 is out of my price range, the N7 would be a replacement, but it has a lower contrast ratio - just need to wait and see if it gives a better picture with real world content (i.e. lower ON-OFF but better ANSI contrast). Will also observe how the QC is on these N7's. For example, mine has no bright corners, but I am not too happy about some of the lamp flickering that can be seen at times.
Does your lamp flickering also appear if you kick the lamp into "high"? None of my JVC lamps have ever flickered, but one of my Sony lamps did this and it was good running at high. Around 400 hours, the flickering went away for good. Good chance that flickering is just the bulb not the QC on the projector. Unless you're really needing native 4k and sitting very close to your screen, you're probably fine with the x7500. I can get MadVR to upscale my 1080p content on my JVC eshift to look very close to the Sony native 4K I have with the same 1080p content.

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post #1619 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:41 AM
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The only "trickery" they could have done to fudge the numbers would have been if the iris at -15 or whatever the max closed setting was, resulted in a more clamped down aperture than the RS640 line at -15. That would have yielded a better contrast ratio but a less usable image at that setting and was speculated as one method they used to get a comparable native contrast measurement. This was explicitly asked to JVC and they said this is *not* the case and that the -15 is about the same aperture as as the RS640 at -15.
There are other tricks that could be being employed which might be really interesting. This wire gate array isn't understood yet; it is possible this is somehow addressable in zones or areas (think local area dimming on an LCD). As we know such systems don't give all the performance that you might expect given numbers. We have an understanding at the moment of what these numbers mean for a projection image for a "standard" projection setup.

There was a really interesting section at the end of the JVC interview Scott did a while ago where they were discussing arrangements involving a 4th panel or device for light level modulation. That section of the video was quite out of place as it was a discussion of something that wasn't in JVC (or any other HT projector). Why bring it up?

In any case I'm sure the performance will be very good, but I am sceptical of the numbers as they clearly don't tell the full story. Giving the example of my bright corners - over how much screen area can you expect the headline number? Are the existing relationships between throw and iris settings similar, or does contrast fall off in a different way throughout the range of those adjustments?

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post #1620 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:47 AM
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There are other tricks that could be being employed which might be really interesting. This wire gate array isn't understood yet
As someone else already suggested (I don't remember who), the term "wire gate" could be a mistranslation. Texts have been translated from Janapese to all kinds of other languages and then from there to English etc. The correct translation could be "wire grid" instead of "wire gate", which is the same JVC has always used.

Of course this is only a guess/possibility. It's also possible they're using new tech, but we don't know for sure right now.

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There was a really interesting section at the end of the JVC interview Scott did a while ago where they were discussing arrangements involving a 4th panel or device for light level modulation. That section of the video was quite out of place as it was a discussion of something that wasn't in JVC (or any other HT projector). Why bring it up?
We got an improvement which is smaller than 10x. It's absolutely great, of course! But a sequential panel arrangement with a 4th panel for light level modulation would actually multiply performance. So instead of "15k : 1" native contrast we'd get something like "225 million : 1" contrast. Furthermore, a 4th panel would cost quite a bit of lumens output. Neither of which is the case here, so JVC is definitely not using a 4th panel.
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