NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Arrow, I appreciate what you've done, reporting your observations and all, but I'm utterly confused by your statement about the lens. It doesn't make sense to me. It's either different or it isn't. If it's improved, it is not the same. If it hasn't been, then it is the same. Am I missing something here?
He is saying, same design, but tighter tolerances and tighter QC. This is just what Sony did this last year with the lens in the 285, 385, 675 and 885. When the Sony lens made it's first appearance a few years ago, it was not considered a very good lens, because too many people got bad samples. Now it is considered a pretty good lens.
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post #1682 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Hey Arrow no offense but let's keep our critical eye and don't get swept up in a happy news show that JVC would evidently love to see.

I'd rather us be wrong and them having a triple check on this feedback, then them trying to convince us and ignoring a potential issue. Perhaps the demo he gave you later had different settings that made the noise go away. Let Michael be unhappy, it's his job to get a faultless product out, so he should learn to take the criticsm and use it constructively.

The fact that Ran mentioned this, also means the demo wasn't properly carried out. If they had a Sony running there to compare with, or at least the Z1, we could've actually seen what might be source problem or something else. However I'm sure there is something going on here, considering Ran seems to be very convinced.
Arrow did not just say, take my word for it. He said go back and look again and confirm. So I think your post is out of line.
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post #1683 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballis View Post
Do these have a low latency game mode - one that actually is low latency?
Yes that was added two generations ago. Three generations ago, if you count the new models coming.
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post #1684 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I think the 870 is going to cost a lot more than just "a bit extra". What lumens do you expect the 870 to put out post-calibration?
This could totally be the case, but my rough guess is the 870 would be $25k USD vs. maybe $20k for NX9?

The 760/885 I believe calibrates to 2000 lumens (and is rated as such). The 870 is rated at 2200, so I'll conservatively say 2000 calibrated.

The RS640 is around 1500 calibrated lumens with an aged bulb, I think? I'd expect the NX9 to be similar.

Personally, I would need around 2500 calibrated lumens for what I'm planning, so I'll probably have to keep waiting.

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post #1685 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
This could totally be the case, but my rough guess is the 870 would be $25k USD vs. maybe $20k for NX9?
That seems very unlikely. The 760 is already $25k USD and it will stay in the line up. Unless Sony makes a *big* price cut for the 760, the 870 is probably going to be in the $30k - $35k range. Not sure about the NX9, but it's probably going to be around $18k (?). In Europe the situation is a lot different for the top models, though. There Sony is much cheaper in comparison and JVC a bit more expensive.
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post #1686 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Right, so does that mean just the same lens assembly? Then where are the changes? And what is the glass used ...the one in the entry and mid range series: X5xx/X7xx/RS4xx/RS5xx ?

Hopefully, he can clarify this point.
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Nothing that can be said about this would satisfy me honestly.

We'll have to wait for the actual reviews and comparison to see how well they stack up
Really. I am quite surprised by this statement. You already proved that you could be satisfied, by spending your money. The lens in your projector was used in all of the earlier generation under $15,000 native 4K projectors. There were countless complaints on the lens. Even Ekki that you like to quote said 25% of them were bad. I think he said only around 50%, maybe less were actually good samples. So Sony tightened up the spec and improved the QC and put the lens in the 885, which you bought. So JVC is looking at doing the same thing and now it is not acceptable to you?
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post #1687 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
And it never will be. It was a translation thing. It is a wire grid polarizer.
Thanks, I hadn't realised that was confirmed.
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post #1688 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:01 AM
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There's chatter going on at the moment over at the UK forum that the 7900 (AKA 790/540) hasn't been discontinued and will continue. Is this so?
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post #1689 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That seems very unlikely. The 760 is already $25k USD and it will stay in the line up. Unless Sony makes a *big* price cut for the 760, the 870 is probably going to be in the $30k - $35k range. Not sure about the NX9, but it's probably going to be around $18k (?). In Europe the situation is a lot different for the top models, though. There Sony is much cheaper in comparison and JVC a bit more expensive.
We can speculate all day, but I can't imagine the 870 being priced that closely to the much brighter 4500. The 870 seems like an incremental upgrade to the 760, which as you say is way cheaper outside of the US, and can be heavily discounted (or imported) as a result. Seriously, the only folks who would buy an 870 over a 4500 at around the same price point would have to be very uninformed individuals.

EDIT - I didn't realize the 870 now has the same lens of the 5000, so I can indeed see it being priced higher. Still, I can't imagine grabbing a 2200lm 870 over a 3000lm 4500 at the same relative price point.


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post #1690 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Really. I am quite surprised by this statement. You already proved that you could be satisfied, by spending your money. The lens in your projector was used in all of the earlier generation under $15,000 native 4K projectors. There were countless complaints on the lens. Even Ekki that you like to quote said 25% of them were bad. I think he said only around 50%, maybe less were actually good samples. So Sony tightened up the spec and improved the QC and put the lens in the 885, which you bought. So JVC is looking at doing the same thing and now it is not acceptable to you?
Mike, why are you trying to turn this into yet another JVC vs Sony thing? Can't we just give this "war" a rest.

All I'm saying is that we can't know for sure if the lens is good enough for native 4k until we see comparisons and reviews. I think pretty much everyone including myself said exactly the same thing when the same was said for the latest iteration of Sony lenses. We had those comparisons and reviews, they were positive. So I bought the projector.

Just saying "We have improved" is an empty statement, doesn't matter if it's Sony or JVC.
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post #1691 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Arrow did not just say, take my word for it. He said go back and look again and confirm. So I think your post is out of line.
I never said anything of how Arrow responds to Ran. I said it's important we stay critical of JVC and don't get swept up in a good news show.

Being critical and scrutinizing everything is our responsibility as press, dealers and consumers if we want to have a good product. I'd rather people like Ran be wrong 10 times than not saying anything for fear of pissing people off.

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post #1692 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
On auto 1, -15 manual iris there was an instance on the Skyfall disk, before the Avatar trailer, there was a full fade to black for a couple of seconds. The auto iris shut down, then the black level got lower again, I assumed it may be the lamp iris closing down a step or two. It would be a neat feature if it was happening.

As long as it's a seamless experience, it's a positive. Damn Skyfall Shanghai night scenes look spectacular fully manual -15 iris.

I'm going to drive this unit manually from now on!
Just to confirm, what you saw is expected of the dynamic iris behaviour from the lens iris which you had enabled via Auto.
There are iris levels below -15 which are only accessible to the dynamic iris.

The writeup I couldn't find on my phone earlier is here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...n-writeup.html
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post #1693 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Arrow, I appreciate what you've done, reporting your observations and all, but I'm utterly confused by your statement about the lens. It doesn't make sense to me. It's either different or it isn't. If it's improved, it is not the same. If it hasn't been, then it is the same. Am I missing something here?
Actually, Canon and Nikon do this with their lenses all the time. They release a lens with XX elements/xx groups and the performance is not quite perfect, then they release a newer version with the exact same element/groups (and same exact optics) but they have tweaked the position and/or lens structure (the parts that hold the lenses in place) and they call it a better version or even a "newer" version. It's the same optics but through real-world testing they realized that it needed to be tweaked to reach optimum performance.
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post #1694 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
What size screen do you have? Like 80" or so? I cant tolerate under -5, it's just too dim. At under -10 the whites start turning tan.
Agreed. To run -15 I'd need 3500 calibrated lumens minimum. 4000 would be better. It would just be way too dim for my tastes.
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post #1695 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
There's chatter going on at the moment over at the UK forum that the 7900 (AKA 790/540) hasn't been discontinued and will continue. Is this so?
I was told they were being discontinued. EOL - October.
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post #1696 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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There's chatter going on at the moment over at the UK forum that the 7900 (AKA 790/540) hasn't been discontinued and will continue. Is this so?
Correct both the SONY X9900 and X7900 are not being discontinued and will remain alongside the N5, N7, and NX9. The X5900 is to be discontinued.

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post #1697 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I was told they were being discontinued. EOL - October.
Great... We've been told conflicting information!

I was told the X9900 and X7900 are staying, and only the X5900 is being discontinued...
.
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post #1698 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Arrow, I appreciate what you've done, reporting your observations and all, but I'm utterly confused by your statement about the lens. It doesn't make sense to me. It's either different or it isn't. If it's improved, it is not the same. If it hasn't been, then it is the same. Am I missing something here?
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
He is saying, same design, but tighter tolerances and tighter QC. This is just what Sony did this last year with the lens in the 285, 385, 675 and 885. When the Sony lens made it's first appearance a few years ago, it was not considered a very good lens, because too many people got bad samples. Now it is considered a pretty good lens.
It could be a little more than that. They could be using the same number of elements and same placement of them, but could have changed the material mix of some of the elements, or had them made to a tighter tolerance, or changed the way they're held or positioned, or the materials that are holding them in place. It's hard to say, but there are lots of possibilities.

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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Mike, why are you trying to turn this into yet another JVC vs Sony thing? Can't we just give this "war" a rest.
An ironic statement considering you are here in the new product announcement JVC thread actively cheerleading for Sony. And, you're doing so far more prominently than anyone else posting*.

*I do have an established ankle biter on ignore so I have to concede it's possible you're only the 2nd most prominent Sony cheerleader in the thread.
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post #1699 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Correct both the SONY X9900 and X7900 are not being discontinued and will remain alongside the N5, N7, and NX9. The X5900 is to be discontinued.
Keeping the X7900 and X9900 would make sense only at reduced prices, though, wouldn't it? E.g. they could keep the X7900 and sell it as a new entry level model? Having the N5 as the cheapest projector seems kind of expensive... But maybe I'm dreaming...
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How many feel comfortable pre ordering a N7 to replace their 5 or 6 eshift series? I'm kind of stuck without seeing actual breakdowns. I want to wait but I don't. Hard times
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I know we don't have confirmed prices for the US, but I am interested to see how this shakes out. JVC really needs to offer something in the $3-4K street price range. It will dissapointing if they don't.
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post #1702 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:08 AM
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This has turned out to be more than it should have.

I will be there tomorrow once again, and I'm sure JVC and/or Mike will be glad to see me and prove me wrong.

I will report back exactly what I saw, regardless if this will upset someone, or , perhaps, prove , that things are much better than the Demo I saw on Friday.


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post #1703 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Great... We've been told conflicting information!

I was told the X9900 and X7900 are staying, and only the X5900 is being discontinued...
.
Could you please confirm this with JVC?
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post #1704 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Great... We've been told conflicting information!

I was told the X9900 and X7900 are staying, and only the X5900 is being discontinued...
.
These are great news!! They should even lower the prices for the RS540 and RS640 a bit so JVC won't loose the below $5000 market. Kinda the RS540 is the new RS440 in terms or price.

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post #1705 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
These are great news!! They even lower the prices for the RS540 and RS640 a bit so JVC won't loose the below $5000 market. Kinda the RS540 is the new RS440 in terms or price.
This would make total sense to me.
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Great... We've been told conflicting information!

I was told the X9900 and X7900 are staying, and only the X5900 is being discontinued...
.
Well, we can ask an entirely different set of JVC reps at Cedia. In a week !
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post #1707 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
An ironic statement considering you are here in the new product announcement JVC thread actively cheerleading for Sony. And, you're doing so far more prominently than anyone else posting*.

*I do have an established ankle biter on ignore so I have to concede it's possible you're only the 2nd most prominent Sony cheerleader in the thread.
I think the irony is with you not seeing that I'm actively interested in these JVC and am willing to replace my Sony vw760es with an NX9 if the performance is really good.

That doesn't mean I will ignore it's faults or stop praising Sony's advantages. That won't happen even if I do end up buying the NX9, unfortunately for you I guess.

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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
This has turned out to be more than it should have.
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Its the AVS way lol.... Your allowed to have your own opinion Ran and I appreciate it....

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Great... We've been told conflicting information!
Nothing new there, but you are in a different market........Well see......

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Thanks. I was waiting for someone to do the size calcs 👍. I wonder if our existing chief mounts will work. I’m in on the N7.
In theory sure, but since there are no specs with bolt hole locations, well not that I have seen anyway, well see...... Could also build a box, never have to buy a mount ever again. <<< Click Here >>> to be linked to pics and details.
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post #1709 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
This has turned out to be more than it should have.

I will be there tomorrow once again, and I'm sure JVC and/or Mike will be glad to see me and prove me wrong.

I will report back exactly what I saw, regardless if this will upset someone, or , perhaps, prove , that things are much better than the Demo I saw on Friday.


Ran
As I said before Ran, please be honest and critical even if it means people feel offended. Your input will very much be appreciated. If there's any fault with mosquito noise, it's necessary JVC is aware so it can be fixed!!
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post #1710 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
How many feel comfortable pre ordering a N7 to replace their 5 or 6 eshift series? I'm kind of stuck without seeing actual breakdowns. I want to wait but I don't. Hard times
I think some will wait for the cine4home deeps dives.. he used to get very early hands on with the JVC's and seems like that has diminished over the last few series. maybe they aren't thrilled with him physically tearing them down to the bone..

pre-order price will be the key area, i've been patiently waiting for these and have no issues with the lamps. still on my first (have 3 spares) and it's still bright in low lamp in my setup. hoping to hear end of October for US release as well.
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eshift , Jvc , native 4k , projector , uhd

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