NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Arrow.

How about editing all your posts from the last 24 hours by saying that indeed you and I have seen video noise ON EVERY material which was shown during the demo and even talked about it during the demo ( or was I imagining our conversation as well..?!)


BUT somehow you where there today and there was no noise and no banding, which is a good and welcome thing being a jvc owner and loyal customer like I am..

The HD material was NOT shown during the demo at all, and was shown after the demo, for 5 minutes or so showing SkyFall, the same noise which was seen by both of us, was there as well.

And if we are going into details you might refresh your memory by the words of Michael in the same session, saying that ones needs to modify the electronics to completely eliminate any video noise.

I await your editing.

Ran
Thanks for your unbiased honest reporting. I am sure many here considering these new projectors appreciate hearing the good and bad of what you saw as opposed to some of the reports that sound like extended sales spin.

I recall years ago you doing a show report on an anticipated Sony pj and honestly pointing out the issues you saw. I remember then the Sony fan-boys were all up in arms but it turned out you were right.

If you have time check out the Sony 870es and lets us know what issues you see with the dual contrast system!

Keep up the honest reporting!
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post #1712 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I think some will wait for the cine4home deeps dives.. he used to get very early hands on with the JVC's and seems like that has diminished over the last few series. maybe they aren't thrilled with him physically tearing them down to the bone..

pre-order price will be the key area, i've been patiently waiting for these and have no issues with the lamps. still on my first (have 3 spares) and it's still bright in low lamp in my setup. hoping to hear end of October for US release as well.
I'm looking forward to Kris Deering's measurements on these new models. He will be at Cedia too, so you are going to have a lot more reports soon.
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post #1713 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
He is saying, same design, but tighter tolerances and tighter QC. This is just what Sony did this last year with the lens in the 285, 385, 675 and 885. When the Sony lens made it's first appearance a few years ago, it was not considered a very good lens, because too many people got bad samples. Now it is considered a pretty good lens.


To paraphrase, he said updates to the same lens. And now, I'm more confused.

I didn't find the Sony lens situation analogous. The Sony lens situation was more than tighter QC, wasn't it. Of course, there's the lens glass and there's the assembly. From what I understood, the glass in the Sony was changed out in the more current models.
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post #1714 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I think some will wait for the cine4home deeps dives.. he used to get very early hands on with the JVC's and seems like that has diminished over the last few series. maybe they aren't thrilled with him physically tearing them down to the bone..
I've not been that impressed with the recent output from cine4home to be honest - doesn't seem to be going into as much detail recently as on previous products. Hopefully we will get a good teardown of the new series from somewhere.
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post #1715 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I'm looking forward to Kris Deering's measurements on these new models. He will be at Cedia too, so you are going to have a lot more reports soon.
That's great to hear, Kris always provides excellent objective info that some folks don't always want to hear.

I have plenty of room on my rack for the N7.. let's goooo!!
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post #1716 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I've not been that impressed with the recent output from cine4home to be honest - doesn't seem to be going into as much detail recently as on previous products. Hopefully we will get a good teardown of the new series from somewhere.
yes agreed not sure what happened.. much of the content seems to be high level coverage videos with https://www.heimkinoraum.de/

They did a comparison with Epson e-shift vs. XRP DLP vs. Native UHD and didn't label the video so everyone is going around quoting it as JVC's e-shift which is much better than Epson's LCD implementation.
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post #1717 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Regarding the lens on the N5 and N7, the reality is that the lens is the same lens but which has been improved. In other words, JVC took the existing lens design and have made some improvements. Therefore, it is neither the same lens nor completely new, but is definitely better as compared with the lens on the existing eshift range.

That is the same what the Japanese JVC engineer told me yesterday at IFA 2018 (while waiting for the next presentation I had plenty of time to talk with him).


As one of my main interests is JVC's Clear Motion Drive frame interpolation that was the subject I focused on. Like last year he was very forthcoming but all I can write is that the frame interpolation in the new models is handled by a JVC inhouse product.


Watching the presentation of the NX9 (wow!) we first watched nature documentary content and then Pacific Rim (mostly to show what JVC's improved CMD is capable of) UHD BD in "low" and "high" CMD settings.
I'm happy to report that there was no vertical banding whatsoever and no motion blur reduction artefacts whatsoever, quite impeccable.


Unfortunately JVC decided to hold N5 presentations until the timeslot between 5 and 6 p.m. (I wasted my time at Sony's presentation unfortunately) and I arrived there a quarter to 6.

Again, pretty impressive, accurate colors, great contrast and native 4K (the "N" is deliberately ambiguous as it stands for "new" and/or "native").


But the one thing JVC owners will probably need to get used to are the new casings' dimensions. The inrease in height is rather noticable and makes the new projetors look somewhat bulky, but I think performance will be more important than appearance.


Like last year JVC projected on a Stewart Studiotek 130 in 21:9 at a width of over 10 feet and clearly, again, was the best front projector setup and demonstration at IFA. Kudos JVC!

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post #1718 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I was told they were being discontinued. EOL - October.
I'm just quoting a well-known UK JVC dealer, who was himself quoting a conversation he'd had with someone. Who knows... lol
The 5900 (440) is definitely toast apparently.

I'm not completely sure I believe it all yet (maybe JVC are putting out feelers to see what the market thinks). I probably find that position (440 EOL, 540/640 continuing) the oddest if I'm honest. I'd have thought they'd be better off not confusing things and keeping the entry unit below these 4K units in all aspects of spec. if this strategy is to be believed they're going to have an odd lineup contrast wise.

The post in question is here:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc...#post-26479314
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post #1719 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
have no issues with the lamps. still on my first (have 3 spares)
Why/how do you have 3 spares!?!? The lamps are pretty expensive!
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post #1720 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Really. I am quite surprised by this statement. You already proved that you could be satisfied, by spending your money. The lens in your projector was used in all of the earlier generation under $15,000 native 4K projectors. There were countless complaints on the lens. Even Ekki that you like to quote said 25% of them were bad. I think he said only around 50%, maybe less were actually good samples. So Sony tightened up the spec and improved the QC and put the lens in the 885, which you bought. So JVC is looking at doing the same thing and now it is not acceptable to you?

But we don't know that, Mike. You say they are "looking at doing the same thing" but have they in fact done that. Do we know that JVC has in fact tightened the QC on their entry and mid unit lenses on these new machines?

I mean many have responded to my question except for Arrow himself. I'm just trying to understand what he meant by "updates."

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post #1721 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
There's chatter going on at the moment over at the UK forum that the 7900 (AKA 790/540) hasn't been discontinued and will continue. Is this so?
I can't speak for Europe, but in the US, the current models are discontinued. As of Friday afternoon for the US JVC had:

RS440: 33 left
RS540:20 left
RS640: 2 left

Now dealers will have some, but very little stock to pull from.
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post #1722 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
That's great to hear, Kris always provides excellent objective info that some folks don't always want to hear.

I have plenty of room on my rack for the N7.. let's goooo!!
My rack is 503 mm (W) and the N7 is 500 mm (W). I have 3 mm spare to make the the N7 fit in my rack



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post #1723 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Why/how do you have 3 spares!?!? The lamps are pretty expensive!
the original ushio lamps are out there, folks just weren't looking hard enough...

Spoiler!
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post #1725 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
the original ushio lamps are out there, folks just weren't looking hard enough...

Spoiler!
The RS series lamp is 2615U, the N series lamp is 2618U. Most likely both share the same lamp but in different housings.

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post #1726 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
My rack is 503 mm (W) and the N7 is 500 mm (W). I have 3 mm spare to make the the N7 fit in my rack
Nice! I have room for 5 projectors!! who else does this, it's crazy

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post #1727 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Mike, why are you trying to turn this into yet another JVC vs Sony thing? Can't we just give this "war" a rest.

All I'm saying is that we can't know for sure if the lens is good enough for native 4k until we see comparisons and reviews. I think pretty much everyone including myself said exactly the same thing when the same was said for the latest iteration of Sony lenses. We had those comparisons and reviews, they were positive. So I bought the projector.

Just saying "We have improved" is an empty statement, doesn't matter if it's Sony or JVC.
I agree the test patterns will show what the lens can and can't do. It was the way you said it, like using that lens means automatic fail. I say, let the results speak for themselves. Do I expect the N5 and N7 to fully resolve the 4K patterns, I do not know? But it looks like JVC thinks the lens design is a good choice at that price point.
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post #1728 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Agreed. To run -15 I'd need 3500 calibrated lumens minimum. 4000 would be better. It would just be way too dim for my tastes.
But IIRC you have stated that you like a way above recommended brightness. For your taste.

With an RS640 calibrated for REC709 with the filter in place, shooting from 20 feet, onto a 1.1 gain 106in 16x9 screen, with less than 100hrs on the bulb - I measured 16fL with manual iris at -12. And 28fL with iris at -4 for a BT2020 cal. (Apparently I didn't update my notes, but I do remember that I left it at iris -2 for HDR at that time.)

With ~850hrs on the bulb I just recently remeasured and took the iris to -6 to hit 16.5fL for SDR.

Measured at center screen with a light meter.
(Sper Scientific 840020C, still well within its 1year calibration period.)

I don't want to 'see' daylight. I want to see stars at night.

==
Next time I do a cal I might do it without the filter in place to recover that ~8% and then maybe be able to shut the iris back down a bit more for SDR.
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post #1729 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
I never said anything of how Arrow responds to Ran. I said it's important we stay critical of JVC and don't get swept up in a good news show.

Being critical and scrutinizing everything is our responsibility as press, dealers and consumers if we want to have a good product. I'd rather people like Ran be wrong 10 times than not saying anything for fear of pissing people off.
I never said a word about Ran's post. You posted about Arrow's post telling him that to be critical, like you thought he might not be. All he said was that he disagreed with Ran on the 4K noise only and asked Ran to go back and verify.
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post #1730 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Nice! I have room for 5 projectors!! who else does this, it's crazy

I have room for 3 but my wallet has room for 1/2" only
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post #1731 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I agree the test patterns will show what the lens can and can't do. It was the way you said it, like using that lens means automatic fail. I say, let the results speak for themselves. Do I expect the N5 and N7 to fully resolve the 4K patterns, I do not know? But it looks like JVC thinks the lens design is a good choice at that price point.
Ok, I meant whatever they say will come across as sales talk anyway. I want to see a real comparison test.

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Lets keep in mind that the new JVC projectors are all pre-production models. If there indeed is video noise, I'm sure JVC will address the issue.
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post #1733 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I have room for 3 but my wallet has room for 1/2" only
Wow, nice place! And three cute women (I'm 34 and have a fiance, so no worries hahaha).

One thing about projectors is that they have to be in an ideal environment to get the most of out them, specially JVCs because of their native contrast. Ideally, the room has to be all black velvet and 100% light controlled. Your room is obviously not like that, but I guess you're ok with it.
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post #1734 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:16 AM
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Lets keep in mind that the new JVC projectors are all pre-production models. If there indeed is video noise, I'm sure JVC will address the issue.
Agree. Also, I won't expect any shipping until mid December minimum. Too many things have to be ironed before release.

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post #1735 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie View Post
But IIRC you have stated that you like a way above recommended brightness. For your taste.

With an RS640 calibrated for REC709 with the filter in place, shooting from 20 feet, onto a 1.1 gain 106in 16x9 screen, with less than 100hrs on the bulb - I measured 16fL with manual iris at -12. And 28fL with iris at -4 for a BT2020 cal. (Apparently I didn't update my notes, but I do remember that I left it at iris -2 for HDR at that time.)

With ~850hrs on the bulb I just recently remeasured and took the iris to -6 to hit 16.5fL for SDR.

Measured at center screen with a light meter.
(Sper Scientific 840020C, still well within its 1year calibration period.)

I don't want to 'see' daylight. I want to see stars at night.

==
Next time I do a cal I might do it without the filter in place to recover that ~8% and then maybe be able to shut the iris back down a bit more for SDR.
I prefer " Alan Gouger recommended brightness ".
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post #1736 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:24 AM
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Agree. Also, I won't expect any shipping until mid December minimum. Too many things have to be ironed before release.
Ship dates are always somewhat up in the air. If they need until late November, so be it !
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post #1737 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:26 AM
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I prefer " Alan Gouger recommended brightness ".
lol. Understood.

I find some of his posts in this thread: "12,000 lumen 3-chip DLP HIGHlite Laser 4K"
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post #1738 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:33 AM
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lol. Understood.

I find some of his posts in this thread: "12,000 lumen 3-chip DLP HIGHlite Laser 4K"
Ha ! When I watch " Lawrence of Arabia ", I want to feel the heat of the desert, and create my own heat mirage ! Which reminds me, where the hell is that movie on 4K Blu-ray? I know they remastered it in 4K already for the Blu-ray. Cough it up Sony !
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post #1739 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post
Wow, nice place! And three cute women (I'm 34 and have a fiance, so no worries hahaha).

One thing about projectors is that they have to be in an ideal environment to get the most of out them, specially JVCs because of their native contrast. Ideally, the room has to be all black velvet and 100% light controlled. Your room is obviously not like that, but I guess you're ok with it.
I only watch movies during the night and it gets pitch dark as the screen is all surrounded by dark painted walls and ceiling.

I took these pictures just a few mins ago (day time) and the room still gets dark enough to watch movies or TV.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #1740 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
This has turned out to be more than it should have.

I will be there tomorrow once again, and I'm sure JVC and/or Mike will be glad to see me and prove me wrong.

I will report back exactly what I saw, regardless if this will upset someone, or , perhaps, prove , that things are much better than the Demo I saw on Friday.


Ran
Ran,


Personally I'm looking forward to your further comments on what you see with your eyes.
I would also and I (Think) some others looking at the current JVC RS4500 would really like to know (Exactly) what your take is between the New NX9 versus the RS4500 ???
That would be great if you wouldn't mind commenting and do it in simple wording for the layman like myself, please.


Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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