NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
There's chatter going on at the moment over at the UK forum that the 7900 (AKA 790/540) hasn't been discontinued and will continue. Is this so?
I can't speak for Europe, but in the US, the current models are discontinued. As of Friday afternoon for the US JVC had:

RS440: 33 left
RS540:20 left
RS640: 2 left

Now dealers will have some, but very little stock to pull from.
Remember the JVC HD250? It came out after the JVC X3,X7,X9. It was based on the generation before those models.

So JVC have sold two generation of products at the same time before - after they realise they were loosing sales because of price point. People who could have afforded the Rs440 will find they are now locked out of JVC all together.
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post #1742 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post
Lets keep in mind that the new JVC projectors are all pre-production models. If there indeed is video noise, I'm sure JVC will address the issue.
True that. The wait begins on production units.

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Agree. Also, I won't expect any shipping until mid December minimum. Too many things have to be ironed before release.
We will see what happens, could be delays, could be ahead of schedule.
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post #1743 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
Remember the JVC HD250? It came out after the JVC X3,X7,X9. It was based on the generation before those models.

So JVC have sold two generation of products at the same time before - after they realise they were loosing sales because of price point. People who could have afforded the Rs440 will find they are now locked out of JVC all together.
If the x7 and x9 will still be sold. I expect it would be at a lower price point.

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post #1744 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

Sorry for this being a long post but I've just returned back home and I'd like to clarify a few things and make my position clear.

Firstly, I’ve just re-read through my posts of today and I’d like to apologize to Ran, because my posts are way to too harsh, so I am very sorry for that and I have gone back and amended them all accordingly.

Ran was and is absolutely correct that there were numerous instances of mosquito video noise in the demos we saw yesterday, especially with respect to Skyfall which was HD1080p. However, I do not remember there being any mosquito noise with respect to the native 4K content that I put on after Skyfall; and the photos that I took yesterday clearly show this.

Furthermore, we did not have hands-on yesterday don’t know for sure what resolution was actually being fed to the projector at what point in time. There are multiple media sources and during my private meeting with JVC this morning before the first demo of the day, during which I had hands-on, I discovered that one of the OPPOs was set for God knows what reason to output everything as HD1080p. When I changed this to Source Direct the native 4K content that I put on was/is seemingly entirely devoid of mosquito noise. I took a photo of the Quick Brown Fox test pattern which clearly shows this.

Ran did not hallucinate and he saw what he saw. I saw the mosquito noise too. However, I have also seen instances wherein there is no mosquito noise, and specifically with respect to when I fed native 4K content to the projector as native 4K. Ran has accurately reported what he saw and has provided a very considerable amount of invaluable information, performance feedback, and answers to peoples’ questions. In these regards Ran has made absolutely no mistake and I would like to thank him for all of the time he has taken to contribute so much in this respect.

Here’s the crux of the issue… In a perfect world at trade shows we would have finished production units being demoed by people who in all instances knew what they were/are doing properly and/or stuff like equipment being set to the wrong settings or whatever did not happen. However, unfortunately in the real world this is not the situation.

I have seen instances of both mosquito noise and no mosquito noise. I have also seen both good and not-so-good contrast performance (where the not-so-good was simply due to bad settings). The unit is a pre-production unit that is known to be malfunctioning in at least one aspect. The settings of both the projector and multiple source players were repeatedly changed by those conducting the demos, from team to team. Source equipment that had been modified was being used.

Therefore, the fact of the matter is that as of yesterday we did not know what was the nature or extent of the mosquito noise or what might be causing it or whether in fact the projector is even at fault. Furthermore, the fact that today I was able to seemingly confirm that there is no mosquito noise with respect to the native 4K content that I fed to the projector as native 4K does not necessarily mean that the projector has no mosquito noise. Firstly, it definitely seemed to do when fed an HD1080p signal; and secondly there is always the possibility that somebody has done something to eliminate and/or reduce its potential for manifestation following yesterday’s feedback and discussion regarding the mosquito noise that Ran and I did see during the demos.

The fact of the matter is that it’s impossible for me to currently know for sure one way or the other until I have opportunity to evaluate production units within a controlled environment. So, I personally will be reserving final judgement until then.

Therefore, we need to be careful when reporting technical performance issues when they are subjectively perceived at a trade show, not to report them in a manner that might be interpreted to mean that the projector is no good. Because I have already come across instances of folks being of the opinion that the JVC NX9 is no good because it has incurable mosquito noise (which is not the case), as well as bright corners (even though the demo unit has none) and banding (even though JVC has stated that this will not be present with respect to the production units).


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post #1745 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
Remember the JVC HD250? It came out after the JVC X3,X7,X9. It was based on the generation before those models.

So JVC have sold two generation of products at the same time before - after they realise they were loosing sales because of price point. People who could have afforded the Rs440 will find they are now locked out of JVC all together.
Will be interesting to see.

Although JVC projectors have never been cheap - I've always felt impressed by what you got for your money in the entry level units. They actually always felt like you were getting more than you paid for in the heft of them, and I actually wondered if the model range only really worked for JVC because they were able to eke more margin out by selling the two higher end units - made of basically the same parts - for substantially more. I think the price was having to be surpressed by JVC to keep them looking attractive next to the 4K native Sony units. I'd be really interested to know (@Mike Garrett ? )what the %age mix of the outgoing products was (4x0 vs 5x0 vs 6x0).

This might represent a long needed lineup re-alignment for JVC. Move the whole D-ILA series upmarket, more reflecting their value now they don't have any lack 4K, and just leave the DLP units around the entry level to mop up the volume with good margins. It sucks though if a 4x0 was a just-achievable stretch for your home theatre.
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post #1746 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Hi everyone,

Sorry for this being a long post but I've just returned back home and I'd like to clarify a few things and make my position clear.

Firstly, I’ve just re-read through my posts of today and I’d like to apologize to Ran, because my posts are way to too harsh, so I am very sorry for that and I have gone back and amended them all accordingly.

Ran was and is absolutely correct that there were numerous instances of video noise in the demos we saw yesterday, especially with respect to Skyfall which was HD1080p. However, I do not remember there being any video noise with respect to the native 4K content that I put on after Skyfall; and the photos that I took yesterday clearly show this.

Furthermore, we did not have hands-on yesterday don’t know for sure what resolution was actually being fed to the projector at what point in time. There are multiple media sources and during my private meeting with JVC this morning before the first demo of the day, during which I had hands-on, I discovered that one of the OPPOs was set for God knows what reason to output everything as HD1080p. When I changed this to Source Direct the native 4K content that I put on was/is seemingly entirely devoid of video noise. I took a photo of the Quick Brown Fox test pattern which clearly shows this.

Ran did not hallucinate and he saw what he saw. I saw the video noise too. However, I have also seen instances wherein there is no video noise, and specifically with respect to when I fed native 4K content to the projector as native 4K. Ran has accurately reported what he saw and has provided a very considerable amount of invaluable information, performance feedback, and answers to peoples’ questions. In these regards Ran has made absolutely no mistake and I would like to thank him for all of the time he has taken to contribute so much in this respect.

Here’s the crux of the issue… In a perfect world at trade shows we would have finished production units being demoed by people who in all instances knew what they were/are doing properly and/or stuff like equipment being set to the wrong settings or whatever did not happen. However, unfortunately in the real world this is not the situation.

I have seen instances of both video noise and no video noise. I have also seen both good and not-so-good contrast performance. The unit is a pre-production unit that is known to be malfunctioning in at least one aspect. The settings of both the projector and multiple source players were repeatedly changed by those conducting the demos, from team to team. Source equipment that had been modified was being used.

Therefore, the fact of the matter is that as of yesterday we did not know what was the nature or extent of the video noise or what might be causing it or whether in fact the projector is even at fault. Furthermore, the fact that today I was able to seemingly confirm that there is no video noise with respect to the native 4K content that I fed to the projector as native 4K does not necessarily mean that I can the projector has no video noise. Firstly, it definitely seemed to do when fed an HD1080p signal; and secondly there is always the possibility that somebody has done something to eliminate and/or reduce its potential for manifestation following yesterday’s feedback and discussion regarding the video noise that Ran and I did see during the demos.

The fact of the matter is that it’s impossible for me to currently know for sure one way or the other until I have opportunity to evaluate production units within a controlled environment. So, I personally will be reserving final judgement until then.

Therefore, we need to be careful when reporting technical performance issues when they are subjectively perceived at a trade show, not to report them in a manner that might be interpreted to mean that the projector is no good. Because I have already come across instances of folks being of the opinion that the JVC NX9 is no good because it has incurable video noise (which is not the case), as well as bright corners (even though the unit in demo has none) and banding (even though JVC has stated that this will not be present with respect to the production units).

Nigel. thanks for your honest feedback. I have a quick question, if the noise was present with HD 1080p material, what about those like me that watch a LOT of TV which in my case is all HD 1080p resolution? Would this noise issue be fixed in production units in any way that noise won't be present when sending HD 1080p material like from DirecTV or Comcast cable in my case?
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post #1747 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Will be interesting to see.

Although JVC projectors have never been cheap - I've always felt impressed by what you got for your money in the entry level units. They actually always felt like you were getting more than you paid for in the heft of them, and I actually wondered if the model range only really worked for JVC because they were able to eke more margin out by selling the two higher end units - made of basically the same parts - for substantially more. I think the price was having to be surpressed by JVC to keep them looking attractive next to the 4K native Sony units. I'd be really interested to know (@Mike Garrett ? )what the %age mix of the outgoing products was (4x0 vs 5x0 vs 6x0).

This might represent a long needed lineup re-alignment for JVC. Move the whole D-ILA series upmarket, more reflecting their value now they don't have any lack 4K, and just leave the DLP units around the entry level to mop up the volume with good margins. It sucks though if a 4x0 was a just-achievable stretch for your home theatre.
I really hope JVC des not leave those of us in the $3-5K range high and dry. It's not that I dont have the money to spend more but the technology changes too fast and I tend to upgrade every 3 years. My other hobby is sports cars and tires, track time, fluids, brake pads, etc... Well I won't even say how much I spend...
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post #1748 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Niles. thanks for your honest feedback. I have a quick question, if the noise was present with HD 1080p material, what about those like me that watch a LOT of TV which in my case is all HD 1080p resolution? Would this noise issue be fixed in production units in any way that noise won't be present when sending HD 1080p material like from DirecTV or Comcast cable in my case?
IIRC it is already recommended for the RS6xx line, at least it's known to work better, if you do the upscaling before you get to the projector.

The Oppo 203/205 is reported to do this well and has an HDMI In port. Or, if your pockets are deep, get a Lumagen.
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post #1749 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:33 AM
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Why does anyone care what Epson is going to do? If you want grey blacks, buy an optoma.
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
You don’t have to like Epson, but you should respect them. They gobble up market share year after year.
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Well sure, why not.. They're a perfectly mediocre option. For those that want a "I guess it's pretty good" theater, they're the way to go. But I don't get the point. Sony and JVC are both significantly better. Optoma / BenQ are both cheaper. Epson is sort of just there.



Markmon, sorry, I'm obviously a newbie and a little defensive, but would not dismiss EPSON as worse than ALL Sony's. I did compare to lower end, and for money was not impressed, they looked grey in store to me and wasn't about to fork out that much money for kid to play video games on. I did make big mistake of not looking at any JVCs, at the time.

RaceCarDriver, If your budget allows, Markmon is right, go straight to JVC or higher end Sony. If you pick EPSON, here's a big warning...


EPSON is a GATEWAY DRUG! (in my newbie opinion, it can be dangerous and lead you to want hard stuff like JVC N5, N7, or even a NX9! )


Optima: (like Candy cigarettes from 1960's, owners think looks cool hanging from mouth/projector mount, but just no kick to it )
brought one home 5 years ago for kid to play video games down in unfinished walk out basement.
Don't remember if I ever sat through an entire movie, grey blacks, fuzzy picture... I'm out.
So continued to sit ~4-5 feet in front of flat panel for years. I was righteous and clean, I didn't need no $10,000 lens to be able to see fairly crisp 4K pixels thank you very much. (OK, did spend $250 on special non-progressive lens with set of small submarine window sized bifocal lens placed really low to operate remote. but hey, I could still focus up close with wide field of view, life was good I thought )


EPSON: warning! GATEWAY DRUG! (watch out for lower end Sony's with circa ~5000:1 contrast too, they might trigger addiction)
Optima gets old and develops intermittent connection to DLP chip. fix, re-fix, re-fix, resolve to rip apart and clean #@$! connector. Wife says just be done with it and get the kid a "good" projector.
The resulting synopsis of quick sad fall into addiction in only about 6 months:
1. Watch a movie on Epson, immediately say: "wait, what???"
2. Get bigger/better 135" screen with less texture. Break out colorimeter and spectro and calibrate.
3. Dang, might be better than flat panel, OK, install blackout shades.
4. Dang, really might like this better than flat panel, OK, do a quick and dirty bat cave treatment, just to see mind you. I'm not really addicted.
4. Dang, really might like this better than flat panel, let's maskout 16:9==> scope, engage color filter and a bit of IRIS to lower black floor and tweak contrast. Just to see what Passengers looks like mind you. In the name of science, not really addicted.
Result, I have not watched a single movie on flat panel since! I'm addicted! Of course can still see grey if looking at directly black of space, but if focusing on content, movies still highly enjoyable..

JVC: drug of choice for hopelessly addicted

I might OD with my newbie blood, but already talking to my dealer if "he can set me up" lol
want NX9 for its apparent combination good contrast, 4K chips and high MTF lens for almost OLED like crisp pixels on a huge screen. (even NX9 may not have MTF to make pixel on/off/off seriously comparable to OLED, but o man its intoxicating to think about N7 more logical, especially if 65mm lens tweak is halfway significant. dang this is addicting


Summary: to put EPSON in perspective, EPSON certainly is no JVC, but for me was a gateway drug. made me give up flat panel. For just over $2K you can have a very enjoyable experience, but it will quickly make you notice what it can and cannot do, and make you want JVC contrast levels if you treat your room.

For perspective of where EPSON sits from my novice eyes: 5040UB has similar ~5000:1 native contrast as Sony 385, (Epson obviously not as crisp as Sony, and I find Epson lens may not be consistent when switching between zoom memories, even focus wise. Have not played with Sony to see if it is inconsistent.)

Projection reviews:
Black level comment: "How does the VW385ES perform? Pretty darn well. I put it on par with Epson’s (less expensive but not true 4K “UB” projectors – Ultra Black – their 5040UB and 6040UB)."


tvspecialists
JVC X790 comparison to Sony 385
Their online video was great, and I love pic of space station on their Blog version that shows JVC blacks in objects. Every body mentions starfields etc, but looking at solar panels and the Soyuz docked to space station on on JVC versus low end Sony gives me anticipation of "getting a contrast fix" Can't wait to get JVC, just have to decide which. :-)

https://www.tvspecialists.com/sony-v...ison-part-i-2/
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post #1750 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Right, here's two photos of the JVC DLA-NX9 in action with respect to the Quick Brown Fox test pattern.

Firstly, please note that: (1) The OPPO Blu-Ray players are incapable of displaying this test pattern properly, so this not all looking how it should do, hence the lines that are FUBAR; this is nothing whatsoever to do with the projector, which is why I previously posted a cropped section that was being displayed properly; and (2) The projector's focus setup had been done imperfectly so the whole image is not as sharp as it should be.

As you can see there is no mosquito video noise:





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post #1751 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:36 AM
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Apologie accepted Nigel, all is good.

I will go back tomorrow to re-evaluate some stuff, and hopefully I can see some of my own.

I'm starting to sound in repeat mode, but I'm in fact less troubled by the video noise, or amount of, I saw in SkyFall 1080p because part of it is source related, I am troubled by the constant video noise I saw in the 2 demos which were ALL 4k material and shouldn't have exhibited so much noise and/or banding.

I will report my findings tomorrow.

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post #1752 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:47 AM
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post #1753 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:53 AM
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Did Epson have anything new out in the Laser segment?

I personally do not care about any comparisons, too early.
Just curious to what new models are established.

I'm not a fan of Epson LCD, but their LCOS Laser are still interesting.
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post #1754 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post

RaceCarDriver, If your budget allows, Markmon is right, go straight to JVC or higher end Sony. If you pick EPSON, here's a big warning...


EPSON is a GATEWAY DRUG! (in my newbie opinion, it can be dangerous and lead you to want hard stuff like JVC N5, N7, or even a NX9! :eek
I am not shopping Epson. I already have a JVC. But just because Epson may not be the best, it doesn’t mean everyone is looking to spend $3,500 to $35,000 or even $50,000 x2 on a projector. Epson eats JVC for lunch when it comes to projector sales. Like I said, you don’t have to like them, but should respect them. Without a gateway drug, we may not have higher end options to choose from like we do.
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Hi difficult is it to set the focus properly once it is known not to be properly in focus?
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post #1756 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi difficult is it to set the focus properly once it is known not to be properly in focus?
Setting the focus properly is actually very easy.

However, the focus setting test pattern with the pre-production unit was/is useless and the JVC guys could not manage to deactivate it to allow the projector's focus to be set optimally using an external test pattern, such as that Quick Brown Fox test pattern, which is absolutely ideal for optimally setting the focus and is what I always use

.

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post #1757 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:13 PM
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Firstly, please note that: (1) The OPPO Blu-Ray players are incapable of displaying this test pattern properly, so this not all looking how it should do
Do you know why the Oppo is incapable of displaying this test pattern ? Does this also affect movie playing ?

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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Will be interesting to see.

Although JVC projectors have never been cheap - I've always felt impressed by what you got for your money in the entry level units. They actually always felt like you were getting more than you paid for in the heft of them, and I actually wondered if the model range only really worked for JVC because they were able to eke more margin out by selling the two higher end units - made of basically the same parts - for substantially more. I think the price was having to be surpressed by JVC to keep them looking attractive next to the 4K native Sony units. I'd be really interested to know (@Mike Garrett ? )what the %age mix of the outgoing products was (4x0 vs 5x0 vs 6x0).

This might represent a long needed lineup re-alignment for JVC. Move the whole D-ILA series upmarket, more reflecting their value now they don't have any lack 4K, and just leave the DLP units around the entry level to mop up the volume with good margins. It sucks though if a 4x0 was a just-achievable stretch for your home theatre.
For the last three years the 5 series has been the number one seller for JVC with (US) AVSF members. The 6 series has been close second and the 4 series a very distant 3rd.
This season December to present
4 series 10%
5 series 45%
6 series 44%
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post #1759 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Nigel. thanks for your honest feedback. I have a quick question, if the noise was present with HD 1080p material, what about those like me that watch a LOT of TV which in my case is all HD 1080p resolution? Would this noise issue be fixed in production units in any way that noise won't be present when sending HD 1080p material like from DirecTV or Comcast cable in my case?
The recommendation would be to upscale the HD 1080p resolution content to native 4K resolution using a decent suitable upscaler (such as MadVR, a Lumagen PRO, or HDFury Vertex) before outputing it to the projector, which you would want to do with JVC projectors irrespectively

With respect to the nature of the video noise I think it's fair to say that we won't know for sure what is the real performance of the JVC DLA-NX9 until after the early adopters such as myself receive and evaluate the production units.
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post #1760 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post


EPSON is a GATEWAY DRUG! (in my newbie opinion, it can be dangerous and lead you to want hard stuff like JVC N5, N7, or even a NX9! )


Optima: (like Candy cigarettes from 1960's, owners think looks cool hanging from mouth/projector mount, but just no kick to it )
brought one home 5 years ago for kid to play video games down in unfinished walk out basement.
Don't remember if I ever sat through an entire movie, grey blacks, fuzzy picture... I'm out.
So continued to sit ~4-5 feet in front of flat panel for years. I was righteous and clean, I didn't need no $10,000 lens to be able to see fairly crisp 4K pixels thank you very much. (OK, did spend $250 on special non-progressive lens with set of small submarine window sized bifocal lens placed really low to operate remote. but hey, I could still focus up close with wide field of view, life was good I thought )


EPSON: warning! GATEWAY DRUG! (watch out for lower end Sony's with circa ~5000:1 contrast too, they might trigger addiction)
Optima gets old and develops intermittent connection to DLP chip. fix, re-fix, re-fix, resolve to rip apart and clean #@$! connector. Wife says just be done with it and get the kid a "good" projector.
The resulting synopsis of quick sad fall into addiction in only about 6 months:
1. Watch a movie on Epson, immediately say: "wait, what???"
2. Get bigger/better 135" screen with less texture. Break out colorimeter and spectro and calibrate.
3. Dang, might be better than flat panel, OK, install blackout shades.
4. Dang, really might like this better than flat panel, OK, do a quick and dirty bat cave treatment, just to see mind you. I'm not really addicted.
4. Dang, really might like this better than flat panel, let's maskout 16:9==> scope, engage color filter and a bit of IRIS to lower black floor and tweak contrast. Just to see what Passengers looks like mind you. In the name of science, not really addicted.
Result, I have not watched a single movie on flat panel since! I'm addicted! Of course can still see grey if looking at directly black of space, but if focusing on content, movies still highly enjoyable..

JVC: drug of choice for hopelessly addicted

I might OD with my newbie blood, but already talking to my dealer if "he can set me up" lol
want NX9 for its apparent combination good contrast, 4K chips and high MTF lens for almost OLED like crisp pixels on a huge screen. (even NX9 may not have MTF to make pixel on/off/off seriously comparable to OLED, but o man its intoxicating to think about N7 more logical, especially if 65mm lens tweak is halfway significant. dang this is addicting


Summary: to put EPSON in perspective, EPSON certainly is no JVC, but for me was a gateway drug. made me give up flat panel. For just over $2K you can have a very enjoyable experience, but it will quickly make you notice what it can and cannot do, and make you want JVC contrast levels if you treat your room.

For perspective of where EPSON sits from my novice eyes: 5040UB has similar ~5000:1 native contrast as Sony 385, (Epson obviously not as crisp as Sony, and I find Epson lens may not be consistent when switching between zoom memories, even focus wise. Have not played with Sony to see if it is inconsistent.)

Projection reviews:
Black level comment: "How does the VW385ES perform? Pretty darn well. I put it on par with Epson’s (less expensive but not true 4K “UB” projectors – Ultra Black – their 5040UB and 6040UB)."
This is funny, but some truth to it. My first projector was an Epson.
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post #1761 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The recommendation would be to upscale the HD 1080p resolution content to native 4K resolution using a decent suitable upscaler (such as MadVR, a Lumagen PRO, or HDFury Vertex) before outputing it to the projector, which you would want to do with JVC projectors irrespectively

With respect to the nature of the video noise I think it's fair to say that we won't know for sure what is the real performance of the JVC DLA-NX9 until after the early adopters such as myself receive and evaluate the production units.
.
I guess I can use my Oppo 203 to upscale Comcast cable content to 4K then.
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The Oppo 203/205 is reported to do this well and has an HDMI In port. Or, if your pockets are deep, get a Lumagen.
They don't have to be that deep if you are patient and don't mind going 2nd hand / ex-dem - I got a great deal on an ex-dem Lumagen Pro. I don't think I've paid any more than 1/2 list price for any of my Lumagen units...
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post #1763 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
For the last three years the 5 series has been the number one seller for JVC with (US) AVSF members. The 6 series has been close second and the 4 series a very distant 3rd.
This season December to present
4 series 10%
5 series 45%
6 series 44%
With numbers like that, it probably makes little sense for JVC to continue with the RS4XX (this coming from a happy RS440 owner).
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post #1764 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
For the last three years the 5 series has been the number one seller for JVC with (US) AVSF members. The 6 series has been close second and the 4 series a very distant 3rd.
This season December to present
4 series 10%
5 series 45%
6 series 44%
Really interesting, much further skewed towards the high end than I had expected. Thanks for sharing. Puts the product positioning from JVC into perspective really - it would appear then to make great sense to have two new products where the volume sales were before and then a new top end product for those who can afford the stretch and want the very best.
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post #1765 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
With numbers like that, it probably makes little sense for JVC to continue with the RS4XX (this coming from a happy RS440 owner).
Keep in mind these numbers are from a very well informed (AVSF) group. I am sure the Joe Public numbers are probably the opposite.
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post #1766 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:52 PM
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@Ran and @ARROW-AV , can you clarify your definition of video noise?

When I see ARROW-AV post photos, it's clear to me that he has a very different definition than what I'm used to. In my book, video noise can't be photographed in a static image because it manifests as instability and movement of the data in the original signal. On the JVC models, I typically see it as pixels shimmering and crawling around when you look at the screen up-close. You can't capture this movement in a photo.

Next time you test the projector, can look at the gray background inside all the JVC menus. Do you see the noise there too? If so, then it can't be a video processing or scaling issue. I saw that noise on my 1080p JVC model too. Strangely, the noise changed when I paused and unpaused the video - even in areas that were not showing the video.

Can you also confirm not seeing vertical streaking on stuff like that bright D-ILA logo or Oppo screensaver on a black background? Also check for reflections or ghost images of the logos elsewhere on the screen. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Really interesting, much further skewed towards the high end than I had expected. Thanks for sharing. Puts the product positioning from JVC into perspective really - it would appear then to make great sense to have two new products where the volume sales were before and then a new top end product for those who can afford the stretch and want the very best.
The percentage increase on the 6 series sales is due to the price drop on the 6 series. This year there was only $2,000 difference in the MSRP between the 5 and 6 series. When the 520 and 620 came out, there was $3,000 difference in the MSRP. Same goes for the RS500 and RS600, $3,000 difference in the MSRP.
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post #1768 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Setting the focus properly is actually very easy.

However, the focus setting test pattern with the pre-production unit was/is useless and the JVC guys could not manage to deactivate it to allow the projector's focus to be set optimally using an external test pattern, such as that Quick Brown Fox test pattern, which is absolutely ideal for optimally setting the focus and is what I always use

.
I think unless JVC somehow massively screws something up. We already know the performance of this lens, as it is the same one as the RS4500. So a focus problem is not really that big of an issue.
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post #1769 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
@Ran and @ARROW-AV , can you clarify your definition of video noise?

When I see ARROW-AV post photos, it's clear to me that he has a very different definition than what I'm used to. In my book, video noise can't be photographed in a static image because it manifests as instability and movement of the data in the original signal. On the JVC models, I typically see it as pixels shimmering and crawling around when you look at the screen up-close. You can't capture this movement in a photo.

Next time you test the projector, can look at the gray background inside all the JVC menus. Do you see the noise there too? If so, then it can't be a video processing or scaling issue. I saw that noise on my 1080p JVC model too. Strangely, the noise changed when I paused and unpaused the video - even in areas that were not showing the video.

Can you also confirm not seeing vertical streaking on stuff like that bright D-ILA logo or Oppo screensaver on a black background? Also check for reflections or ghost images of the logos elsewhere on the screen. Thanks.
There are many different kind of video noise artifacts. The one reported by Ran and Arrow is Mosquito Noise, which is commonly founded in HD broadcasting TV signals highly compressed like the ones from DirecTV and Comcast cable.

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post #1770 of 13653 Old 09-01-2018, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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There are many different kind of video noise artifacts. The one reported by Ran and Arrow is Mosquito Noise, which is commonly founded in HD broadcasting TV signals highly compressed like the ones from DirecTV and Comcast cable.

Spot on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
@Ran and @ARROW-AV , can you clarify your definition of video noise?

When I see ARROW-AV post photos, it's clear to me that he has a very different definition than what I'm used to. In my book, video noise can't be photographed in a static image because it manifests as instability and movement of the data in the original signal. On the JVC models, I typically see it as pixels shimmering and crawling around when you look at the screen up-close. You can't capture this movement in a photo.

Next time you test the projector, can look at the gray background inside all the JVC menus. Do you see the noise there too? If so, then it can't be a video processing or scaling issue. I saw that noise on my 1080p JVC model too. Strangely, the noise changed when I paused and unpaused the video - even in areas that were not showing the video.

Can you also confirm not seeing vertical streaking on stuff like that bright D-ILA logo or Oppo screensaver on a black background? Also check for reflections or ghost images of the logos elsewhere on the screen. Thanks.
You can in fact capture 'moving' type video noise in a time-release photo. And as it happens the larger photo was/is precisely that.

Either way, those photos are precisely what the image looked like. No mosquito video noise.

There was also no mosquito noise with respect to the Masciola Test patterns that I put on either.

OPPO menu on the other hand, when set to output as HD1080p was noisy. Skyfall HD1080p also was noisy.

.
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Last edited by ARROW-AV; 09-01-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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