NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread - Page 65 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1921 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 04:50 AM
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Since most games are released on PC full controller support now, there's not a reason to even own a ps4/xbox one x in my opinion.
The reason to own a console is cost and simplicity. Most people I know game on a PS4 or XBOX which makes gaming with friends easier as not may people own a gaming PC.
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post #1922 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 04:51 AM
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The internal upscale on the X790 is not good at all so I wouldn’t expect much out of the 8K upscale. I use my Oppo 103D for all my 1080-4K upscaling and it looks great!
Like I said, others are better [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Also, I wouldn't expect much perceivable difference out of eShfit 8K in most instances anyway! IMO it's the least interesting feature of the NX9! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

I would indeed have been happier if they invested more in image processing tech to compete with Sony in this regard. But I guess it's economically more feasible as they already had this tech available.

The problem with these solutions is that they don't touch the content. A simple resolution upscale won't touch the actual image, meaning you can't enhance what's already subpar quality in the source. For games this is important.

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post #1923 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 04:56 AM
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Since most games are released on PC full controller support now, there's not a reason to even own a ps4/xbox one x in my opinion.
The reason to own a console is cost and simplicity. Most people I know game on a PS4 or XBOX which makes gaming with friends easier as not may people own a gaming PC.
Depends on the quality of what you want to see however. A PS4 is great just like a TV is great in normal living room situations. However if you take image quality more serious than that.
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post #1924 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:00 AM
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Since most games are released on PC full controller support now, there's not a reason to even own a ps4/xbox one x in my opinion.
The reason to own a console is cost and simplicity. Most people I know game on a PS4 or XBOX which makes gaming with friends easier as not may people own a gaming PC.
Depends on the quality of what you want to see however. A PS4 is great just like a TV is great in normal living room situations. However if you take image quality more serious than that.
Fully agree with you that a PC will give you much better quality with gaming. I’m just saying the percentage of people that have a high end gaming PC as well as a large screen and projector is very small.

Most people that game on a high end system have 4K computer monitors and sit at a desk with a keyboard.
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post #1925 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:08 AM
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Like I said, others are better [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Also, I wouldn't expect much perceivable difference out of eShfit 8K in most instances anyway! IMO it's the least interesting feature on the nx9.
Take away the 8k marketing gimmick and it might get tougher to justify the 10k higher cost over the n7. I really look forward to when can make your own assessment of the new projectors.
It's really the lens they're selling. However the price differential is a lot more economical than what was there in the past. I think this is the first time we've really had a high end lens on a sub 20k projector.

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post #1926 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Take away the 8k marketing gimmick and it might get tougher to justify the 10k higher cost over the n7. I really look forward to when can make your own assessment of the new projectors.
So do I!

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post #1927 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:13 AM
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JVC's upscaler is "fine". Im sure the noise isn't so bad that most people really notice. It's just that other upscalers are "great". Processing is not one of the strong areas for the JVC...
Have you seen it? How do you know it's not "so bad that most people really notice"? Mosquito noise is not inherent to a cheap scalar. Look, I get they're not going to match madVR NGU, but that doesn't automatically excuse doing a bad job with a more standard scaling algorithm.
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post #1928 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Have you seen it? How do you know it's not "so bad that most people really notice"? Mosquito noise is not inherent to a cheap scalar. Look, I get they're not going to match madVR NGU, but that doesn't automatically excuse doing a bad job with a more standard scaling algorithm.
I agree, it would be great if JVC could improve their scaling to the degree that I can actually advise people to use it! That said, we don't know what is the performance of JVC's new projectors in this regard! We can't judge the performance of the production units based on a malfunctioning prototype at a trade show! We will only know what is the real performance of the new projectors when someone carries out proper evaluation and scientific analysis of multiple production units in controlled conditions (which is precisely what I will be doing) in addition to feedback from multiple actual owners. For all we know the upscaling with the production units might transpire to be absolutely amazing... or not. We just don't know at the present time. So let's wait to see what is the actual performance of the finished products before we start making conclusions regarding how good or bad is their respective performances

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post #1929 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:20 AM
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JVC's upscaler is "fine". Im sure the noise isn't so bad that most people really notice. It's just that other upscalers are "great". Processing is not one of the strong areas for the JVC...
Have you seen it? How do you know it's not "so bad that most people really notice"? Mosquito noise is not inherent to a cheap scalar. Look, I get they're not going to match madVR NGU, but that doesn't automatically excuse doing a bad job with a more standard scaling algorithm.
That's because we own a JVC and a Sony and can directly compare between both what a big difference a good upscaler makes.

We don't know the performance of these new units. But we have a frame of reference for the performance.
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post #1930 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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That's because we own a JVC and a Sony and can directly compare between both what a big difference a good upscaler makes.

We don't know the performance of these new units. But we have a frame of reference for the performance.
There's no doubt about the fact that with respect to the pre-existing projectors, SONY's upscaling and video processing in this regard significantly outperforms JVC's. Let's hope that that situation has improved with respect to the new projectors. We can't judge the performance of the production units based on a malfunctioning prototype at a trade show
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post #1931 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:32 AM
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With numbers like that, it probably makes little sense for JVC to continue with the RS4XX (this coming from a happy RS440 owner).
These figures are for AVSF members. I expect (actually hope, otherwise will have to say goodbye to JVCs) a very different distribution for the “general public”.

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post #1932 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 05:58 AM
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Fully agree with you that a PC will give you much better quality with gaming. I’m just saying the percentage of people that have a high end gaming PC as well as a large screen and projector is very small.

Most people that game on a high end system have 4K computer monitors and sit at a desk with a keyboard.
This is neither fun nor relaxing to be all hunched over a small computer desk. A keyboard was never meant to be a game controller. It just so happened to be what existed when games were written for a computer. Times have really changed. 90% of all games are written simultaneously for PC, Xbox one x and ps4 pro. The PC side gets full controller support with Xbox 360 type controller built into the game, supports surround sounds, works great relaxing on couch, does not need keyboard to come out to play. It's a different experience than where it was even 5 years ago.

Anyways, I'd expect anyone that is able to afford one of the projectors discussed in this thread and caring about games to be able to purchase/buy a high end PC to make the most of it.
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post #1933 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:04 AM
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There's no doubt about the fact that with respect to the pre-existing projectors, SONY's upscaling and video processing in this regard significantly outperforms JVC's. Let's hope that that situation has improved with respect to the new projectors. We can't judge the performance of the production units based on a malfunctioning prototype at a trade show
.
Sorry, but on this one I cant even imagine a scenario where the JVC's upscaler even comes close to the Sony. It's not like a couple guys grab a 6-pack of beer and sit down at their computer and pound out a good upscaler cause marketing wants it. Sony's reality creation has taken them years of development to get where it's at today. JVC has had *nothing* up to this point. JVC still has nothing at the trade show. They're not all the sudden going to have a fantastic upscaler in 2 months.

Now we are possibly talking about two things here. I'm *not* referring to the noise in the upscaler you saw when 1080p was upscaled to 4K. I'm sure that'll be taken care of. I am referring to the upscaler that will convert 4K to eshifted 1/2 8K when eshift is enabled. I'm just going to call it now that no one will be able to tell any difference when that's turned on and anyone that thinks they see a difference is probably suffering from expectation bias. JVC's upscaler in this regard has always been zilch.

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post #1934 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:06 AM
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My opinion is that the image shown depicting a standard image without the new auto tone mapping was not adjusted properly. Here is a quick pic with no alterations of my lowly JVC X570/RS420 at approximately the same time stamp:



I am not saying my image is perfect and I am very much looking forward to the auto tone mapping feature. I have also jacked around with my Panasonic UB820 a few weeks back so I may have shadow detail too high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Your picture is not the director's intent. The pic from the NX9 is how that scene is supposed to look. Look at it on a TV that can do 1,000 nits or look at the BD version and you will see that scene much like what the NX9 shows.
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post #1935 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:08 AM
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Just returning from IFA having seen the NX9 in action this morning. As mentioned before I do have an X7000 with a Lumagen pro which is so to say my reference that the NX9 had to compete against.
The demo started with the JVC trailer on the 3 new models. The video was clearly upscaled to 4k and had a lot of visible video noise. Nevertheless the black levels looked really good. Second on was a promo video shot in 8k but downscaled to 4k for this presentation. This video looked quite stunning although these ‚made for presentation‘ promos often look much better then any consumer release material you can buy.
Next was Pacific Rim Uprising which looked pretty good. Nice vibrant colors and good black levels. The overall brightness was okay but as written before by others there is still headroom.
Last demo was The Greatest Showman which looked okay but not as good as Pacific Rising. It was a bit too dark, the black was more a dark grey and colors seemed to be a bit off as there was a bit too much red in the picture. It seemed though that it was not the best mastered film though.
Overall I think it is (or will be) a great projector but in comparison with my existing very well calibrated and setup X7000 it seems to be not that much of a huge step forward. Talking to the JVC staff it was confirmed that difference between N7 and NX9 is the eshift and the lens. It couldn’t do any comparisons with and without eshift but I don’t have my hopes too high that there is much to gain. The better lens buys you around 20% more light and 20% more native contrast at the cost of 10k€.
I am concluding that I will wait untill I can do a 1:1 comparison between the N7 and the NX9 final models at a dealer and decide whether it will be the NX9, the N7 or if I keep my equipment for at least one more season.
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post #1936 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, but on this one I cant even imagine a scenario where the JVC's upscaler even comes close to the Sony. It's not like a couple guys grab a 6-pack of beer and sit down at their computer and pound out a good upscaler cause marketing wants it. Sony's reality creation has taken them years of development to get where it's at today. JVC has had *nothing* up to this point. JVC still has nothing at the trade show. They're not all the sudden going to have a fantastic upscaler in 2 months.

Now we are possibly talking about two things here. I'm *not* referring to the noise in the upscaler you saw when 1080p was upscaled to 4K. I'm sure that'll be taken care of. I am referring to the upscaler that will convert 4K to eshifted 1/2 8K when eshift is enabled. I'm just going to call it now that no one will be able to tell any difference when that's turned on and anyone that thinks they see a difference is probably suffering from expectation bias. JVC's upscaler in this regard has always been zilch.
JVC still has nothing as far as dynamic contrast functionality at the trade show but it's all the sudden going to have 1,000,000 ON/OFF dynamic contrast performance in 2 months

Furthermore, SONY has had how many years to develop high contrast with native 4K without success? And JVC just achieved that...

So who is to say they won't produce much better upscaling as well?

That said, you are probably right.

But we can't make definitive conclusions either way just yet

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post #1937 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Just returning from IFA having seen the NX9 in action this morning. As mentioned before I do have an X7000 with a Lumagen pro which is so to say my reference that the NX9 had to compete against.
The demo started with the JVC trailer on the 3 new models. The video was clearly upscaled to 4k and had a lot of visible video noise. Nevertheless the black levels looked really good. Second on was a promo video shot in 8k but downscaled to 4k for this presentation. This video looked quite stunning although these ‚made for presentation‘ promos often look much better then any consumer release material you can buy.
Next was Pacific Rim Uprising which looked pretty good. Nice vibrant colors and good black levels. The overall brightness was okay but as written before by others there is still headroom.
Last demo was The Greatest Showman which looked okay but not as good as Pacific Rising. It was a bit too dark, the black was more a dark grey and colors seemed to be a bit off as there was a bit too much red in the picture. It seemed though that it was not the best mastered film though.
Overall I think it is (or will be) a great projector but in comparison with my existing very well calibrated and setup X7000 it seems to be not that much of a huge step forward. Talking to the JVC staff it was confirmed that difference between N7 and NX9 is the eshift and the lens. It couldn’t do any comparisons with and without eshift but I don’t have my hopes too high that there is much to gain. The better lens buys you around 20% more light and 20% more native contrast at the cost of 10k€.
I am concluding that I will wait untill I can do a 1:1 comparison between the N7 and the NX9 final models at a dealer and decide whether it will be the NX9, the N7 or if I keep my equipment for at least one more season.
Thank you for the excellent feedback!

Interesting that you also saw the video noise with HD1080p video upscaled to 4K

Was this video noise also present with respect to the native 4K content and/or 8K down-scaled to 4K content?


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post #1938 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:28 AM
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Yea I know this, but this is an area JVC really hasnt taken seriously in the past, so can we really be sure with these new models?

The only reason Ill consider playing extra for 4K is gaming so Im asking because Id like it confirmed. Do you know for certain?
Yes, these new models also have low lag gaming mode.
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post #1939 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:31 AM
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Just returning from IFA having seen the NX9 in action this morning. As mentioned before I do have an X7000 with a Lumagen pro which is so to say my reference that the NX9 had to compete against.
The demo started with the JVC trailer on the 3 new models. The video was clearly upscaled to 4k and had a lot of visible video noise. Nevertheless the black levels looked really good. Second on was a promo video shot in 8k but downscaled to 4k for this presentation. This video looked quite stunning although these ‚made for presentation‘ promos often look much better then any consumer release material you can buy.
Next was Pacific Rim Uprising which looked pretty good. Nice vibrant colors and good black levels. The overall brightness was okay but as written before by others there is still headroom.
Last demo was The Greatest Showman which looked okay but not as good as Pacific Rising. It was a bit too dark, the black was more a dark grey and colors seemed to be a bit off as there was a bit too much red in the picture. It seemed though that it was not the best mastered film though.
Overall I think it is (or will be) a great projector but in comparison with my existing very well calibrated and setup X7000 it seems to be not that much of a huge step forward. Talking to the JVC staff it was confirmed that difference between N7 and NX9 is the eshift and the lens. It couldn’t do any comparisons with and without eshift but I don’t have my hopes too high that there is much to gain. The better lens buys you around 20% more light and 20% more native contrast at the cost of 10k€.
I am concluding that I will wait untill I can do a 1:1 comparison between the N7 and the NX9 final models at a dealer and decide whether it will be the NX9, the N7 or if I keep my equipment for at least one more season.
Thank you for the excellent feedback!

Interesting that you also saw the video noise with HD1080p video upscaled to 4K

Was this video noise also present with respect to the native 4K content and/or 8K down-scaled to 4K content? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

<img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
No I couldn’t see any video noise especially in the demo and Pacific Rising. Greatest Showman was overall not a very good picture but also no video noise present there for me!
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post #1940 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:34 AM
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Yes, these new models also have low lag gaming mode.
It's 100% confirmed, there is a "low latency option" visible in the menu of one of the latest videos posted in this thread.
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post #1941 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:38 AM
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At the Airport after a day at IFA, primarily at the JVC booth, with Mike (from Cine/Mike) and one of their top Japanese engineers, who is on the developers team of the above said projectors, before getting to my second day impressions, some more answers I received, not in a particular order of importance

1. The Ansi Contrast improvements is for ALL 3 new projectors.

2. The top slider on the tone map HDR sub menu is for compensation for Large screens, so Manni got this right...

3. The installation holes on the back of the unit are in the exact same place as the existing ones, so it's an easy swap.

4. DCI coverage for the 5 is not known yet but will not be less than last years entry model.

5. An upgrade to 2.1 will likely be impossible, due to comlatibility issues.
As other companies on the show, they had no idea as to when the chip will be available nor compatibility with Dolby Vision and HDR10+.

JVC received me with open arms and even insisted on a selfie with the crazy guy from Israel who makes a habit of flying every year,just to take a look at their projectors, they were indeed very nice and welcoming.

I did take a hold of the remote trying to find out the MPC setting and they where on 5/2/ and 0 being the NR.

We did re-focus the unit per my request.

I sat through 2 Demos and I must say that something has clearly changed from the Demo on Friday, in terms of Noise and image stability.

I was very please with the latter and the absence of the former. I did however see Banding once more and hopefully it will be ironed out.

The DI was not working and the Iris was on -1.

Contrast was not bad to say the least, and in fact coming from the X9500, I couldn't say I saw a problem.
Brightness seemed to be OK, but then again it's a very big screen, so in my case with a smaller screen and an HP screen it will look totally different.

Sharpness and detail looked very impressive and not over processed, looked very natural to my eyes.

We did look at 1080p stuff and again, to my surprise, there was much much less noise.

Overall this was a MUCH better presentation than the one given on Friday.

I'm holding my final desicion about purchasing this until I can test it out thoroughly.

Ran
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post #1942 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:39 AM
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The reason to own a console is cost and simplicity. Most people I know game on a PS4 or XBOX which makes gaming with friends easier as not may people own a gaming PC.

There is lots of reasons to own a console. For starters it offer much more bang for the buck.....If you are a regular games.
If you like 3D or Vr, there is still reasons but atleast for me i won´t game in 2D and seems expensive to buy ps4 and psvr for few titles, and there really isn´t yet even any
exclusives on psvr , or is it ? anyways not that much. and the hadware is just not yet there.
StarVrOne seems interesting. but we will see how frikin´expensive it´s gonna be-
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post #1943 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:51 AM
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looking at the sweetspot diagram im sitting in 4.5m from screen and screen is diagonal 130". so according to diagram i should gain from a 4k display but reality is im projecting 90% of content that´s fullHD,
is there any point of thinking about the new series or would it be much wiser just to grab one of the current models as im looking for a replacements to my current projectors (HC9000D)
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post #1944 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 06:54 AM
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Hello all! Popping in as I was referred to here. I have around $5k-$8k to spend on getting either a projector or direct view display in my dedicated totally light controlled theater. I’ve got everything else bought and paid for except a display.

I recently picked up a Vizio Quantum P series 65 and was amazed at the brightness and color of HDR. That blinding brightness upped the immersion factor for me 10 fold. Looking at rtings review it seems to be the brightest set out currently.

So much so I was thinking of getting it as a tide me over thing until I picked out my “forever” (yeah right) setup.

Anyway, I tossed a thread up in this parent forum and someone referred me here. My searing distance is about 10-11 feet from the screen/display.

My question is, will any of these new JVC projectors match that level of brightness/color saturation I saw in my Quantum when displaying HDR content?

Or would I be better to chase my needs on a 77-85 inch LED?

These are ALL lamp based, correct? No laser?

One huge “*” on my must have list is that I game A LOT. So, input lag is extremely important. Will any of these new JVCs have input lag below 30ms?
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post #1945 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Hello all! Popping in as I was referred to here. I have around $5k-$8k to spend on getting either a projector or direct view display in my dedicated totally light controlled theater. I’ve got everything else bought and paid for except a display.

I recently picked up a Vizio Quantum P series 65 and was amazed at the brightness and color of HDR. That blinding brightness upped the immersion factor for me 10 fold. Looking at rtings review it seems to be the brightest set out currently.

So much so I was thinking of getting it as a tide me over thing until I picked out my “forever” (yeah right) setup.

Anyway, I tossed a thread up in this parent forum and someone referred me here. My searing distance is about 10-11 feet from the screen/display.

My question is, will any of these new JVC projectors match that level of brightness/color saturation I saw in my Quantum when displaying HDR content?

Or would I be better to chase my needs on a 77-85 inch LED?

These are ALL lamp based, correct? No laser?

One huge “*” on my must have list is that I game A LOT. So, input lag is extremely important. Will any of these new JVCs have input lag below 30ms?


You might want to start a thread in the home theater design and construction section. This thread is moving fast and you will probably get better feedback over there. I would say get a projector, and these new JVC’s might be perfect for you. It will not be as bright as a tv but the tone mapping should help with that. I game on my JVC RS420 and it works pretty good, not as good as my PC monitor but good enough. I think they older models were around 30ms on the lag side but we won’t know about these until someone can test it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #1946 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The video was clearly upscaled to 4k and had a lot of visible video noise
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Interesting that you also saw the video noise with HD1080p video upscaled to 4K... Was this video noise also present with respect to the native 4K content and/or 8K down-scaled to 4K content?
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post
No I couldn’t see any video noise especially in the demo and Pacific Rim Uprising. Greatest Showman... also no video noise present there for me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
At the Airport after a day at IFA, primarily at the JVC booth, with Mike (from Cine/Mike) and one of their top Japanese engineers, who is on the developers team of the above said projectors, before getting to my second day impressions, some more answers I received, not in a particular order of importance

1. The Ansi Contrast improvements is for ALL 3 new projectors.

2. The top slider on the tone map HDR sub menu is for compensation for Large screens, so Manni got this right...

3. The installation holes on the back of the unit are in the exact same place as the existing ones, so it's an easy swap.

4. DCI coverage for the 5 is not known yet but will not be less than last years entry model.

5. An upgrade to 2.1 will likely be impossible, due to comlatibility issues.
As other companies on the show, they had no idea as to when the chip will be available nor compatibility with Dolby Vision and HDR10+.

JVC received me with open arms and even insisted on a selfie with the crazy guy from Israel who makes a habit of flying every year,just to take a look at their projectors, they were indeed very nice and welcoming.

I did take a hold of the remote trying to find out the MPC setting and they where on 5/2/ and 0 being the NR.

We did re-focus the unit per my request.

I sat through 2 Demos and I must say that something has clearly changed from the Demo on Friday, in terms of Noise and image stability.

I was very please with the latter and the absence of the former. I did however see Banding once more and hopefully it will be ironed out.

The DI was not working and the Iris was on -1.

Contrast was not bad to say the least, and in fact coming from the X9500, I couldn't say I saw a problem.
Brightness seemed to be OK, but then again it's a very big screen, so in my case with a smaller screen and an HP screen it will look totally different.

Sharpness and detail looked very impressive and not over processed, looked very natural to my eyes.

We did look at 1080p stuff and again, to my surprise, there was much much less noise.

Overall this was a MUCH better presentation than the one given on Friday.

I'm holding my final desicion about purchasing this until I can test it out thoroughly.

Ran
Thanks Ran for yet even more excellent feedback

I am pretty certain that the video noise has been relating to HD1080p being upscaled by the projector (which we don't want to be doing anyway). As previously mentioned, I discovered that the OPPO had been set to force everything to HD1080p for God knows what reason on Friday; so I am convinced that some of the native 4K media that was demoed to us on Friday was being fed to the projector as HD1080p because of this, and then upscaled by the projector to 4K, resulting in the same video noise that transpires when HD1080p is upscaled to 4K by the projector.

If you think there was less noise with HD1080p, I would be willing to bet that this was without the content being upscaled. Because I still saw the same degree of video noise with respect to HD1080p content being upscaled to 4K during my private meeting with JVC on Saturday morning, and others have also corroborated seeing the same thing.

Either way, you weren't imagining things on Friday, I saw it too. But like I said, I also saw the instances wherein there was/is absolutely zero such video noise, such as when the OPPO was changed to Source Direct with the native 4K content that I put on. No doubt if you had been with me when I had my private meeting with JVC on Saturday morning we would not have butted heads over the video noise situation or lack of as it in fact transpires is the case. So I am really glad to hear that you have now seen for yourself that there is absolutely zero video noise with native 4K content. This is great news I am sure that you will agree, especially given the previous concerns

I would like to take the opportunity to invite you to come and visit and spend a day with me wherein you will be able to test all of the JVC N5, N7, and NX9 production units thoroughly with me (N.B. I should hopefully be receiving early delivery of these ahead of general release) and compare their respective performances directly versus the X9900 and Z1/RS4500 and also the SONY projectors if you so wish, in properly blacked out room and controlled conditions; and I will of course have all of my professional video measuring and analysis equipment available for use as well. I can chauffeur you to and from the airport, which is only 20 minutes away. I owe you a drink sir!


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 09-02-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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post #1947 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:12 AM
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All this talk on 1080P scaling, makes me wonder. With 1080P content in a comparison of the NX9 and the 885. For overall best image of 1080P content we have the scaling of the Sony vs the 4 times higher native contrast and improved sharpness of the lens. For my setup with 1080P content I have my RS640 at -10 manual iris. With an NX9, I would probably be at -11 or -12.
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post #1948 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Buddylee123 View Post
You might want to start a thread in the home theater design and construction section. This thread is moving fast and you will probably get better feedback over there. I would say get a projector, and these new JVC’s might be perfect for you. It will not be as bright as a tv but the tone mapping should help with that. I game on my JVC RS420 and it works pretty good, not as good as my PC monitor but good enough. I think they older models were around 30ms on the lag side but we won’t know about these until someone can test it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Got it. I’m assuming we’ll get all the specs and such revealed this week?
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post #1949 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:17 AM
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Got it. I’m assuming we’ll get all the specs and such revealed this week?


Most of the specs have been released but we won’t find out some things until they are reviewed, like the specific input lag numbers.


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post #1950 of 13653 Old 09-02-2018, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
At the Airport after a day at IFA, primarily at the JVC booth, with Mike (from Cine/Mike) and one of their top Japanese engineers, who is on the developers team of the above said projectors, before getting to my second day impressions, some more answers I received, not in a particular order of importance

1. The Ansi Contrast improvements is for ALL 3 new projectors.

2. The top slider on the tone map HDR sub menu is for compensation for Large screens, so Manni got this right...

3. The installation holes on the back of the unit are in the exact same place as the existing ones, so it's an easy swap.

4. DCI coverage for the 5 is not known yet but will not be less than last years entry model.

5. An upgrade to 2.1 will likely be impossible, due to comlatibility issues.
As other companies on the show, they had no idea as to when the chip will be available nor compatibility with Dolby Vision and HDR10+.

JVC received me with open arms and even insisted on a selfie with the crazy guy from Israel who makes a habit of flying every year,just to take a look at their projectors, they were indeed very nice and welcoming.

I did take a hold of the remote trying to find out the MPC setting and they where on 5/2/ and 0 being the NR.

We did re-focus the unit per my request.

I sat through 2 Demos and I must say that something has clearly changed from the Demo on Friday, in terms of Noise and image stability.

I was very please with the latter and the absence of the former. I did however see Banding once more and hopefully it will be ironed out.

The DI was not working and the Iris was on -1.

Contrast was not bad to say the least, and in fact coming from the X9500, I couldn't say I saw a problem.
Brightness seemed to be OK, but then again it's a very big screen, so in my case with a smaller screen and an HP screen it will look totally different.

Sharpness and detail looked very impressive and not over processed, looked very natural to my eyes.

We did look at 1080p stuff and again, to my surprise, there was much much less noise.

Overall this was a MUCH better presentation than the one given on Friday.

I'm holding my final desicion about purchasing this until I can test it out thoroughly.

Ran
Thanks again for all the feedback Ran, much appreciated

Great news for the ANSI improvement for the three models, that could end up being more significant than native 4K for many of us and possibly more than compensate the drop in on/off (especially for those of us with a dedicated room coming from an rs5xx and considering the N7, the drop from an rs6xx to even an N9 is more significant) re overall PQ, not just low APL content. I can't wait to confirm this myself or get a confirmation from someone I trust.

Glad they implemented this slider for large/small screens. For those familiar with custom curves, this is similar to an adjustment for diffuse white / brightness factor. You can have the same values for hard clip, soft clip to adjust the highlights curve at the top end and the contrast according to HDR10 static metadata, but changing diffuse white / brightness factor is what makes the biggest difference regarding how bright the picture looks overall. Of course, the brightest the picture, the less headroom for the highlights, at least with BT2390. So if you go too far in one direction, you likely crush highlights, and if you go too far in the other, you likely crush near black. That's the downside of static metadata / processing for HDR.

What might help JVC vs custom curves is that they probably deviate from ST2390 in the low end to adjust dark gamma and bring out shadow detail, hopefully more than the default BT2390 curve but less than the black compensation option for BT2390 (that makes near black look a bit too grey to my taste, at least in a dedicated room). This could be nice for the darkest / poorly mastered titles.

Sounds like the JVC auto tone mapping is going to be a very significant improvement over the current implementation, and possibly even over well-designed custom curves tailored to a specific setup (i.e. not "generic" custom curves made by someone else, including myself), especially in the low end if they do a good job. I'm hoping that their implementation uses internally more controls than the dark gamma / picture tone / bright gamma shown in their demo (hopefully for simplification), in which case the picture might look good but it won't be as accurate as it could be with a few well-designed custom curves.

I'm looking forward to get a chance to evaluate the N7 or read objective data and detailed measurements from a reliable source.

Thanks again!

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 09-02-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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