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-   -   NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2996950-new-jvc-rs3000-nx9-rs2000-n7-rs1000-n5-native-4k-projectors-anticipation-thread.html)

ARROW-AV 08-17-2018 04:57 AM

NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi everyone,

This thread relates to the upcoming launch by JVC of a new range of Native 4K D-ILA projectors , which are to be announced and on demo at IFA 2018 in Berlin and CEDIA 2018 in San Diego

Initial indicative information (yet to be definitively confirmed) as per follows:

• Native 4K

• Lamp-based (not laser)

• To replace the existing eShift range of JVC projectors

• Completely new projectors; with new lenses and new chassis

• New flagship projector model to replace RS640/X9900 might be eShift 8K


So, it's going to be a case of either JVC being the first to achieve very high contrast performance with native 4K, which would be amazing; or the comparative contrast performance is going to be significantly worse, meaning JVC will lose their primary USP, which would be very disappointing indeed. Personally I am hoping to be amazed and not disappointed... ;)

Here's a teaser trailer is for the new range:


Here's a better glimpse of the new projectors:

https://photos.smugmug.com/NEW-JVC-4...ORS%202-X2.jpg

Thoughts?

:smile:

markmon1 08-17-2018 05:03 AM

My thoughts are that the 4K panel JVC has is what's in the RS4500 today. New and better panels will be released in the flagship projector then trickle down to the more affordable units later - not the other way around. So, we know the contrast numbers. It's the RS4500's panel with a 2615 lamp. They'll use the same dual dynamic iris system they have today and try to get some better dimming, but it's going to be probably worse than what Sony has available today.

As JVC improves its panels, this will come over time and will either be released in a new flagship model or released simultaneously with a new flagship model and new lower line using a better contrast panel. I don't believe we will see any high contrast panel that leaves the RS4500 panel in the dust.

Hope I'm wrong. If the 4K lamp based units do have contrast similar to my RS640 I'll buy it right away. Otherwise, I'll be keeping my RS640 for years to come and probably be one of the last home theater enthusiasts that has a theater that can actually display the color black.

Those are my thoughts :)

theblackangus 08-17-2018 05:27 AM

Im taking this thread straight off topic as revenge....What about those African swallows? =P

Joking aside, Im super excited to see what JVC brings.
I really hope the 6xx ends up being 4k laser. (or all of them =))

My projector will be 11 years old next year, so its about time for me to upgrade, and right now it seems like Sony or JVC... and after seeing so many JVC's locally I would really like to get something near the 5x0 contrast levels.

Question - For the stuff that will be announced when does it usually hit the streets? By Christmas or early next year?

Tom Bley 08-17-2018 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackangus (Post 56655102)
Question - For the stuff that will be announced when does it usually hit the streets? By Christmas or early next year?

I think December. That is when I received my RS-500. December 18th to be exact. I think pre orders opened up in October.

ack_bk 08-17-2018 05:49 AM

I won't even try to speculate. How do you know for sure these are lamp based?

ARROW-AV 08-17-2018 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackangus (Post 56655102)
I really hope the 6xx ends up being 4k laser. (or all of them =))

It is my understanding that the entire range is going to be lamp-based.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackangus (Post 56655102)
Question - For the stuff that will be announced when does it usually hit the streets? By Christmas or early next year?

Early to mid December, depending which country you live in :)

:wink:

Archibald1 08-17-2018 05:54 AM

It will be interesting to read JVC's marketing material if the contrast levels are indeed much, much lower than their current e-shiFt range.

What was once touted as the thing that is absolutely needed for a great picture, will suddenly be not quite so important for a really good image......, as some have already been arguing. ;)

I can't wait to see how they word it if it is indeed the case. ;)

On the other hand, they may have a rabbit ready to pull from that hat..... :)

ARROW-AV 08-17-2018 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bk (Post 56655188)
I won't even try to speculate. How do you know for sure these are lamp based?

Because that's what JVC has indicated. However, we won't know for sure until the official information release at IFA and CEDIA :)

:wink:

ARROW-AV 08-17-2018 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markmon1 (Post 56655008)
My thoughts are that the 4K panel JVC has is what's in the RS4500 today. New and better panels will be released in the flagship projector then trickle down to the more affordable units later - not the other way around. So, we know the contrast numbers. It's the RS4500's panel with a 2615 lamp. They'll use the same dual dynamic iris system they have today and try to get some better dimming, but it's going to be probably worse than what Sony has available today.

As JVC improves its panels, this will come over time and will either be released in a new flagship model or released simultaneously with a new flagship model and new lower line using a better contrast panel. I don't believe we will see any high contrast panel that leaves the RS4500 panel in the dust.

Hope I'm wrong. If the 4K lamp based units do have contrast similar to my RS640 I'll buy it right away. Otherwise, I'll be keeping my RS640 for years to come and probably be one of the last home theater enthusiasts that has a theater that can actually display the color black.

Those are my thoughts :)

I have a feeling that we will find that the native ON/OFF contrast is increased as compared with the JVC RS4500/Z1. JVC's technicians indicated last year that there were/are numerous methods by which they could increase the native ON/OFF contrast performance with respect to the JVC RS4500/Z1. That said, the magnitude of the increase is unknown.

Furthermore, unless JVC has made a breakthrough with respect to sigificantly increasing native ON/OFF contrast performance with native 4K this won't be as high as the RS640.

The 64 million dollar question is: will the peak ON/OFF contrast performance be higher or lower as compared with the SONY 550/675ES? :)

Either way, I don't think any of these questions will be easily answered at IFA or CEDIA because the projectors marketing information is guaranteed to state next to 'Contrast' performance: "∞:1" :rolleyes:

So, as per usual, we will only know what's what in this regard when someone like me takes some proper measurements ;)

.

Manni01 08-17-2018 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARROW-AV (Post 56655270)
I have a feeling that we will find that the native ON/OFF contrast is increased as compared with the JVC RS4500/Z1. JVC's technicians indicated last year that there were/are numerous methods by which they could increase the native ON/OFF contrast performance with respect to the JVC RS4500/Z1. That said, the magnitude of the increase is unknown.

Furthermore, unless JVC has made a breakthrough with respect to sigificantly increasing native ON/OFF contrast performance with native 4K this won't be as high as the RS640.

The 64 million dollar question is: will the peak ON/OFF contrast performance be higher or lower as compared with the SONY 550/675ES? :)

Either way, I don't think any of these questions will be easily answered at IFA or CEDIA because the projectors marketing information is guaranteed to state next to 'Contrast' performance: "∞:1" :rolleyes:

So, as per usual, we will only know what's what in this regard when someone like me takes some proper measurements ;)

.

In order to claim infinite:1 they would have to offer a full black out plate or a fully closing DI, as we know that these will be lamp based and won't have laser dimming offering full fade to black.

Do you have any information confirming this? Otherwise it's a bit early to say they'll claim infinite:1 on/off with lamp-based units....

bobof 08-17-2018 06:21 AM

@ARROW-AV - Where did the "go further, be the first" image come from?

12B4A 08-17-2018 06:25 AM

I was hoping they'd stick with eshift and bring laser downmarket. As a customer, it's annoying that the overall industry stupidity of rushing to display 8K has forced them in devoting resources to further develop native 4K to eshift 8K. :(

TheSony4KRises 08-17-2018 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markmon1 (Post 56655008)
My thoughts are that the 4K panel JVC has is what's in the RS4500 today. New and better panels will be released in the flagship projector then trickle down to the more affordable units later - not the other way around. So, we know the contrast numbers. It's the RS4500's panel with a 2615 lamp. They'll use the same dual dynamic iris system they have today and try to get some better dimming, but it's going to be probably worse than what Sony has available today.

As JVC improves its panels, this will come over time and will either be released in a new flagship model or released simultaneously with a new flagship model and new lower line using a better contrast panel. I don't believe we will see any high contrast panel that leaves the RS4500 panel in the dust.

Hope I'm wrong. If the 4K lamp based units do have contrast similar to my RS640 I'll buy it right away. Otherwise, I'll be keeping my RS640 for years to come and probably be one of the last home theater enthusiasts that has a theater that can actually display the color black.

Those are my thoughts :)

By the time the 4K resolution/laser tech of a rs4500 or a 5000es has been combined with the contrast capability of an rs640/620/600 and is available at affordable prices.....the industry will most likely be on the verge of pushing 16K:)

x43x 08-17-2018 07:39 AM

Retailers are anticipating an uptick in pricing as well, so I might have to decide if the native 4K is worth the premium, or if contrast wins and I get a 540. I really hope the real-world contrast is decent and I would be okay with the levels that Sony has if they still accept the 18gb video signal.

jpbonadio 08-17-2018 07:41 AM

Can't wait to see what JVC will bring to the table, but if these projectors are indeed lamp based then I will be disappointed. I was hoping JVC would explore the laser path instead of the native 4k. Obviously both would be preferable, but the chances for that are minimal.

tico1970 08-17-2018 07:44 AM

Cancelling my X590 order right away

ack_bk 08-17-2018 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4A (Post 56655338)
I was hoping they'd stick with eshift and bring laser downmarket. As a customer, it's annoying that the overall industry stupidity of rushing to display 8K has forced them in devoting resources to further develop native 4K to eshift 8K. :(

I think the marketing hype around resolution is too great for JVC to ignore. And not that native 4K and native 4K with 8K eshift is not a tangible improvement, but I also agree that an e-shift high contrast laser projector could have been a winner if they priced it right.

ack_bk 08-17-2018 07:57 AM

I am hoping JVC can also improve lumen output with these new lines. It will also be interesting to see if 3D is still supported or if they drop it. My guess is that they drop it.

12GAGE 08-17-2018 08:02 AM

I think that JVC has definitely studied the market and figured they had to strike now. I think they should streamline their offerings and continue to provide an entry level e-shift with no DI and then a native 4k lamp based unit to undercut the Sony 675 and 385 units. I think JVC will strive to remain the value leader in this part of the segment.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bk (Post 56655770)
I think the marketing hype around resolution is too great for JVC to ignore. And not that native 4K and native 4K with 8K eshift is not a tangible improvement, but I also agree that an e-shift high contrast laser projector could have been a winner if they priced it right.


bobof 08-17-2018 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bk (Post 56655794)
It will also be interesting to see if 3D is still supported or if they drop it. My guess is that they drop it.

Uffff.... hope not :(

DavidHir 08-17-2018 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bk (Post 56655794)
I am hoping JVC can also improve lumen output with these new lines. It will also be interesting to see if 3D is still supported or if they drop it. My guess is that they drop it.

I'm hoping for more lumens as well for HDR. Another 500 (calibrated) lumens in high lamp would be very welcome.

Craig Peer 08-17-2018 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x43x (Post 56655664)
Retailers are anticipating an uptick in pricing as well, so I might have to decide if the native 4K is worth the premium, or if contrast wins and I get a 540. I really hope the real-world contrast is decent and I would be okay with the levels that Sony has if they still accept the 18gb video signal.

Prices will be going up from what I've heard. So, if you want RS540 performance at the current price - you had better get one soon.

Toe 08-17-2018 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bk (Post 56655770)
I think the marketing hype around resolution is too great for JVC to ignore. And not that native 4K and native 4K with 8K eshift is not a tangible improvement, but I also agree that an e-shift high contrast laser projector could have been a winner if they priced it right.

Same here. I was hoping for a laser eshift machine this year, but still excited to hear about these new models. It will be interesting to see what they will bring to the table vs the current units and what drawbacks there will be as well (contrast and who knows what else).

Now I'm a bit torn on if I should put the x790 up for sale or not...... :confused:

Craig Peer 08-17-2018 08:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobof (Post 56655322)
@ARROW-AV - Where did the "go further, be the first" image come from?

It came straight from JVC.

BattleAxeVR 08-17-2018 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Peer (Post 56655970)
Prices will be going up from what I've heard. So, if you want RS540 performance at the current price - you had better get one soon.

Wouldn't prices for used projectors go down, given how many will likely be upgrading or more interested in native 4K to begin with?

I'm happy for JVC and look forward to reading this, but unless the lamps are cheaper, this is a non-starter for me. 600 bucks a pop for lamps is not happening, not when blue laser diodes cost pennies and you can buy LED and laser projectors for under 2K now.

I hope JVC beats the pants off Sony in terms of native contrast, and so hopefully force Sony to release an affordable laser model of their 4K native units next year. Or Epson.

I would've preferred high contrast JVC e-shift + laser at an affordable price, so long as it supported P3 gamut, and 120hz at 1080p in HDR10.

Craig Peer 08-17-2018 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpbonadio (Post 56655682)
Can't wait to see what JVC will bring to the table, but if these projectors are indeed lamp based then I will be disappointed. I was hoping JVC would explore the laser path instead of the native 4k. Obviously both would be preferable, but the chances for that are minimal.

Probably going to take a while to get a native 4K laser projector that costs less than the current 3 available from Sony & JVC.

BattleAxeVR 08-17-2018 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpbonadio (Post 56655682)
Can't wait to see what JVC will bring to the table, but if these projectors are indeed lamp based then I will be disappointed. I was hoping JVC would explore the laser path instead of the native 4k. Obviously both would be preferable, but the chances for that are minimal.

If their lamps were affordable it wouldn't matter. But they are priced like ink jet printer replacement ink. It's a cheap way to boost sales. I consider it price gouging, honestly. The projector itself should be the main expense, not the lamps adding 20-30-40% extra depending on how long you keep it. I want to buy my next projector and keep it for ten years. Not quite there yet, obviously.

Craig Peer 08-17-2018 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR (Post 56656020)
Wouldn't prices for used projectors go down, given how many will likely be upgrading or more interested in native 4K to begin with?

I'm happy for JVC and look forward to reading this, but unless the lamps are cheaper, this is a non-starter for me. 600 bucks a pop for lamps is not happening, not when blue laser diodes cost pennies and you can buy LED and laser projectors for under 2K now.

I hope JVC beats the pants off Sony in terms of native contrast, and so hopefully force Sony to release an affordable laser model of their 4K native units next year. Or Epson.

I would've preferred high contrast JVC e-shift + laser at an affordable price, so long as it supported P3 gamut, and 120hz at 1080p in HDR10.

Too bad none of those are native 4K, and none of those throw a picture I would want in my theater. Only the price is good.

Craig Peer 08-17-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR (Post 56656040)
If their lamps were affordable it wouldn't matter. But they are priced like ink jet printer replacement ink. It's a cheap way to boost sales. I consider it price gouging, honestly. The projector itself should be the main expense, not the lamps adding 20-30-40% extra depending on how long you keep it. I want to buy my next projector and keep it for ten years. Not quite there yet, obviously.

I can't argue with you there, as I feel the same way, which is why I bought an RS4500.

christoffeldg 08-17-2018 08:49 AM

7 Attachment(s)
Now I'm wondering what JVC will bring to the table to challenge Sony in the native 4k space. It'll be good to have competition, if they supersede the Sony 285 in all respects, then Sony would be forced to bring the price down, or release a replacement sooner than expected. Hopefully, JVC will keep the price reasonable at around 5k for the lowest one and not higher, though I'm a bit skeptical.


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