Help me understand why a JVC is better than an EPSON - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 92 Old 10-15-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
If you do this then the room will be even JVC "ready". I don't really think that everything need to be black to enjoy JVC's contrast, at least there are JVC owners with light grey walls but screen surroundings are black.

I think that the most important is to make black the areas of the room where the picture reflections are very noticeable which depends on how close are the edges of the screen to the side walls and ceiling but generally speaking, covering 1.5-2 meters (5-7ft) of the side walls and ceiling (and obviously the whole screen wall itself) will boost the contrast to the level where more coverage will just marginally improve contrast.

Of course hardcore AVS JVC owners will say that it's not enough and even wear black gloves if your skin is light colored because it ruins your contrast
Nothing needs to be black to benefit from JVC contrast. The reflections in the room solved by velvet, black walls, etc are going to improve ANSI contrast. The JVC excels with ON/OFF contrast. The way you benefit from JVC blacks is to simply eliminate all extraneous light. No lights on, no windows, no equipment lights on etc. Do this and your dark blacks will pop on JVC and you'll notice just how terrible and grey Epson "blacks" are. If you further get rid of all reflections and make the whole room black etc, then you will get a benefit on ANSI contrast which will provide good contrast on bright scenes.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #62 of 92 Old 10-15-2018, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Do any of the new (or older) JVC projectors support 1080p at 120hz? I know I'm a broken record on this, but I'd love to have JVC blacks and 120hz native for gaming than DLP. Hopefully JVC is listening! E-shift is basically 120hz operation and 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 can do up to 196hz in 4:4:4 HDR10, so 120hz HDR10 in 4:4:4 should be possible too. Even if LCoS isn't as fast as DLP 120hz vs 60hz should still offer a substantial benefit in terms of motion resolution. I suspect the LCoS can't quite do 144hz or they'd have had triple flash 3D. They could at least do 1080p at 96hz which is what their 3D runs at. But their e-shift runs at 120hz (for 60hz content), unless I'm mistaken, so their panels should be able to do 120hz relatively well.
I think the answer is 'no'.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #63 of 92 Old 10-16-2018, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Nothing needs to be black to benefit from JVC contrast. The reflections in the room solved by velvet, black walls, etc are going to improve ANSI contrast. The JVC excels with ON/OFF contrast. The way you benefit from JVC blacks is to simply eliminate all extraneous light. No lights on, no windows, no equipment lights on etc. Do this and your dark blacks will pop on JVC and you'll notice just how terrible and grey Epson "blacks" are. If you further get rid of all reflections and make the whole room black etc, then you will get a benefit on ANSI contrast which will provide good contrast on bright scenes.
Really? Because when I asked in the owners thread that I have light walls they said to forgot the JVC, when I asked what if I make the screen surroundings black then they said maybe but still not enough Even though I said the same thing that JVCs better contrast should be visible even if not everything is black...
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post #64 of 92 Old 10-16-2018, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
Really? Because when I asked in the owners thread that I have light walls they said to forgot the JVC, when I asked what if I make the screen surroundings black then they said maybe but still not enough Even though I said the same thing that JVCs better contrast should be visible even if not everything is black...
You don't need black wrapped walls for high ON/OFF contrast like on JVC. The white colored walls is bad because it reflects light from the screen back onto the screen and washes out the picture. When the JVC is displaying a black image, there is no light to reflect back onto the screen. The lower the light on the screen, the lower the reflection on the screen. It might make some difference on low APL scenes that aren't pure black, but for the most part, it won't matter. The white walls do matter for ANSI contrast, but this is an entirely different contrast measurement and JVC projectors aren't very high in ANSI contrast anyway. The reason that the ANSI contrast cares about white walls and reflective surfaces is because there is more light on the screen when measuring ANSI contrast and this is when that light will reflect back onto the screen.

For JVC top thrive for black levels, you need to have no ambient light in your room. Thats it. I'm not saying that black walls will have no impact on JVC black levels, but the impact will be minimal.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #65 of 92 Old 10-16-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You don't need black wrapped walls for high ON/OFF contrast like on JVC. The white colored walls is bad because it reflects light from the screen back onto the screen and washes out the picture. When the JVC is displaying a black image, there is no light to reflect back onto the screen. The lower the light on the screen, the lower the reflection on the screen. It might make some difference on low APL scenes that aren't pure black, but for the most part, it won't matter. The white walls do matter for ANSI contrast, but this is an entirely different contrast measurement and JVC projectors aren't very high in ANSI contrast anyway. The reason that the ANSI contrast cares about white walls and reflective surfaces is because there is more light on the screen when measuring ANSI contrast and this is when that light will reflect back onto the screen.

For JVC top thrive for black levels, you need to have no ambient light in your room. Thats it. I'm not saying that black walls will have no impact on JVC black levels, but the impact will be minimal.
My wall is medium grey, if that's the case then JVC is back on my list. However the warranty is not as good as the Epson in my country, only 6 month lamp warranty for the JVC but hopefully it won't explode or become dim after 1000 or so hours later Also not big deal to install black velvet curtains to cover the walls when it's gaming time. Probably the best to check the performance before covering the wall.
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post #66 of 92 Old 10-16-2018, 11:01 PM
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Can someone who owns an RS540 explain exactly what actions in the menus result in the very long HDMI delay times? I saw a demo but couldn't figure out what settings were triggering it.
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post #67 of 92 Old 10-16-2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
Can someone who owns an RS540 explain exactly what actions in the menus result in the very long HDMI delay times? I saw a demo but couldn't figure out what settings were triggering it.
Disabling CMD and enabling low lag mode will help the sync time, but it's still pretty long.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #68 of 92 Old 10-17-2018, 01:02 PM
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Guys ... what is on/off contrast?
For me, the most irritating thing are the "grey" aspect ratio bars during dark scenes using my epson 5040
I am hoping that the JVC will help here
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post #69 of 92 Old 10-17-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bytebuster View Post
Guys ... what is on/off contrast?
For me, the most irritating thing are the "grey" aspect ratio bars during dark scenes using my epson 5040
I am hoping that the JVC will help here
That is where JVC shines. Or rather where other projectors are shining gray while JVC shows a nice dark black.
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post #70 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
Can someone who owns an RS540 explain exactly what actions in the menus result in the very long HDMI delay times? I saw a demo but couldn't figure out what settings were triggering it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Disabling CMD and enabling low lag mode will help the sync time, but it's still pretty long.
Has this been fixed on the new models? Still an issue (even as improved)?

Thanks,

Panny UB820, Denon X6300H in 6.1.4 mode, Epson 5040UB, SVS PCUltra paired with a MiniDSP HD and BEQ (of course!)
Working on making things blacker...
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post #71 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweakophyte View Post
Has this been fixed on the new models? Still an issue (even as improved)?

Thanks,
Sync time has been cut in half on the new models. I no longer consider this an issue. Also using low lag mode should reduce it even more.
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post #72 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Sync time has been cut in half on the new models. I no longer consider this an issue. Also using low lag mode should reduce it even more.
Cut in half to how many seconds? It was horrible when I last saw it so even half that time would still feel long. Also can someone explain which menu items cause it to happen? I couldn't figure it out when I demoed one. I figured it was just switching HDMI inputs that would cause it but that isn't true it was happening other times when doing things in the menus.
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post #73 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
Cut in half to how many seconds? It was horrible when I last saw it so even half that time would still feel long. Also can someone explain which menu items cause it to happen? I couldn't figure it out when I demoed one. I figured it was just switching HDMI inputs that would cause it but that isn't true it was happening other times when doing things in the menus.
I don't think you are going to find it much different than the native 4K Sony projectors.
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post #74 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 12:58 PM
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So I just went from a epson 5040ube to a new old stock JVC 620. It was a huge leap in picture quality. The picture is much sharper, I have a htpc hooked up and the desktop looks much better on the jvc then the epson. Details in movies are much better. My wife rewatched like 10 movies , she is super impressed with the JVC. Now I do have a theater room that is blacked out. Black ceilings , half the walls are black, from the ceiling down. Also the first 4 foot of the room is triple black velvet. That’s about to be extended another 4-8 per my wife’s request lol she was like I told you should have done the velvet and not worried about paint lol. I would recommend the velvet for any one with any projector, makes a huge difference. I am mad that I just got a 620 and now JVC comes out with a true 4K. But honestly I’m super happy with the 620. The contrast really makes the image have a more 3d look to it. Also like others have said the hdmi 18gps is nice over the epson. Using a htpc I was able to bypass most of the limits it imposed. Like Netflix. Now with the 540 with a msrp of 3999 it’s a no brainer to get the JVC over the 5040ub. I’m sure you can get it below that. Got my old stock 620 for under 4 grand out the door. Also the JVC has a black case vs having a huge white case hanging from your ceiling. Looks really out of place when the rest of your room is all black.
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post #75 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 01:08 PM
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Make no mistake, there are frustrations with JVC. They come out with new projectors too often instead of providing means to update existing models. There are long wait times for source switching. Good bulbs are pricey. A few other irritations here and there.

But.....damn if they don't display the prettiest picture you can buy.

Blacks are inky. Colors are vibrant. Resolution is crystal clear as long as you buy the good lens models. The depth and contrast is incredibly immersive.

However, the new native 4K models are concerning. A drop in contrast levels, are you kidding me? Contrast and inky blacks are the JVC signature. These new models sound very "Sony like" to me. I'll be passing on that generation for sure. My 620 is still wowing me.
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Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
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post #76 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Make no mistake, there are frustrations with JVC. They come out with new projectors too often instead of providing means to update existing models. There are long wait times for source switching. Good bulbs are pricey. A few other irritations here and there.

But.....damn if they don't display the prettiest picture you can buy.

Blacks are inky. Colors are vibrant. Resolution is crystal clear as long as you buy the good lens models. The depth and contrast is incredibly immersive.

However, the new native 4K models are concerning. A drop in contrast levels, are you kidding me? Contrast and inky blacks are the JVC signature. These new models sound very "Sony like" to me. I'll be passing on that generation for sure. My 620 is still wowing me.
And yet, set up side by side, I bet people pick the RS2000 over the RS620 with SDR and HDR content. Reviews will tell shortly, but I have seen the 1000 and 3000 and they looked very good.
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post #77 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
And yet, set up side by side, I bet people pick the RS2000 over the RS620 with SDR and HDR content. Reviews will tell shortly, but I have seen the 1000 and 3000 and they looked very good.
Mike, how do the black levels on the 1000 compare to the epson 5040?
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post #78 of 92 Old 10-18-2018, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bytebuster View Post
Mike, how do the black levels on the 1000 compare to the epson 5040?
The 1000 even wide open iris has more than double the native of the 5040.
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post #79 of 92 Old 10-19-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
And yet, set up side by side, I bet people pick the RS2000 over the RS620 with SDR and HDR content. Reviews will tell shortly, but I have seen the 1000 and 3000 and they looked very good.
The question is, how does the RS620 in combination with the tone mapping of the Panasonic ub820 compare to the RS2000's own internal tone mapping? My gut is they produce a very similar result.

I suspect I'll just wait for the RS640 version of the RS600, if you know where I'm going. Just let JVC tweak these new 4K native models over the next couple of cycles, then jump on board.

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post #80 of 92 Old 10-19-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Make no mistake, there are frustrations with JVC. They come out with new projectors too often instead of providing means to update existing models. There are long wait times for source switching. Good bulbs are pricey. A few other irritations here and there.

But.....damn if they don't display the prettiest picture you can buy.

Blacks are inky. Colors are vibrant. Resolution is crystal clear as long as you buy the good lens models. The depth and contrast is incredibly immersive.

However, the new native 4K models are concerning. A drop in contrast levels, are you kidding me? Contrast and inky blacks are the JVC signature. These new models sound very "Sony like" to me. I'll be passing on that generation for sure. My 620 is still wowing me.
Isn't source switching is like a 10-15 sec thing on last years models? That's totally fine for me, also yes bulb prices are more than ideal, if 1 bulb can give great bright picture for 1000-1200 hours then it's a bummer.
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post #81 of 92 Old 11-27-2018, 08:22 AM
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Now that the successor to the 5040 is on the horizon (5050 manual is out and TW9400 is available in Europe), I wonder how inky its blacks will be given the 1,200,000:1 contrast rating it has and how it will compare to the RS540/X790.
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post #82 of 92 Old 11-27-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Return to HT View Post
Now that the successor to the 5040 is on the horizon (5050 manual is out and TW9400 is available in Europe), I wonder how inky its blacks will be given the 1,200,000:1 contrast rating it has and how it will compare to the RS540/X790.
Well the current 5040UB has a contrast spec of 1,000,000:1, but actual native contrast measures around 6,000:1. A 16.67% change in dynamic is going to be meaningless, even when compared side by side. I would be more interested in improvements in the following areas.

HDR tone mapping
Lumen output
Lumen output with DCI P3 filter
Noise level in high lamp
Full Spec HDMI
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post #83 of 92 Old 11-27-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The white walls do matter for ANSI contrast, but this is an entirely different contrast measurement and JVC projectors aren't very high in ANSI contrast anyway.
The new JVC's are suppose to be much improved in ANSI contrast. The last I heard they said double the performance of previous models. I would expect that means they have passed up Sony for the leader in ANSI contrast from LCoS panels.
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post #84 of 92 Old 11-27-2018, 10:54 AM
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The best thing you can do is to see projector for yourself. 15 minutes with each projector will be worth more than 20 hours of reading online comments.
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post #85 of 92 Old 12-04-2018, 10:22 AM
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How does the Epson do with motion compared to the JVC? Most of my usage will be watching will be sports on Directv in 1080p. Will probably add a 4k box for the Masters in a few months.
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post #86 of 92 Old 01-09-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
JVC really brought a lot to the table this year. You have native 4K with high contrast and auto tone mapping and then the huge price drop on the RS540.

Am I late to this party? How much is the huge drop for RS540? Deal still around?
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post #87 of 92 Old 01-10-2019, 07:00 PM
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Am I late to this party? How much is the huge drop for RS540? Deal still around?
I’d be interested in that too. My HT guy I’m having build out my theater room right now wants me to get an Epson 6040UB but I’m not sure it’s going to be better for me than the JVC RS540.
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post #88 of 92 Old 01-13-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Wastingmytime View Post
I’d be interested in that too. My HT guy I’m having build out my theater room right now wants me to get an Epson 6040UB but I’m not sure it’s going to be better for me than the JVC RS540.
http://www.us.jvc.com/projectors/procision/dla_x790r/ (Same projector as RS540.)

MSRP: $3999.00

Rex
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post #89 of 92 Old 02-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I recently migrated from an epson 5040 to the jvc 540.
It is a serious upgrade. I wasn't expecting this to be that big an upgrade given that my projector is installed in my family room (with light grey walls and a white ceiling).
At night, when i turn off all the lights and lower the shutters, the image is amazing. The improvement in black levels and contrast are quite apparent to me.
Of course its important to note that I got the 540 at the newly discounted price point
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post #90 of 92 Old 02-10-2019, 01:09 PM
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I went from a epson 5040ub to a rs540u.

I got rid of the 5040ub because of the bandwidth limitations and the fact Netflix does 4k at 60fps so I would get 8bit (with a hd fury linker btw, or it go to 1080p!!!!) If Netflix would do 30fps I would of kept the 5040ub hands down with my extra year warranty with my AMEX.

When I first got the 5040ub I was amazed by the blacks during mostly lit scenes till someone said put your hand up by the blacks.. then yea it looked greyish.. but at 11ft back it was hard to tell unless it was completely black part. But it never bothered me as I dont watch scifi. Lucifer on netflix the blacks first episode when he is in his car at night getting pulled over with the cop looked fantastic.

Few things I liked better with the 5040ub than the rs540u.

-the remote (better button placement)
-easier to get a better focus (seriously!! Really disappointed on trying get my rs540u in focus)
-brighter
-the menu setup
-didnt come with a dead pixel!!
-controlled the volume on my avr
-turned my avr on and off when it turned on/off
-had to use 1 remote because if the 2 above

Things I like about the rs540u than the 5040ub

-it's not white! Beautiful paint color better than my car.
-blacks when the screen is almost completely or is completely black. (But after seeing the difference it's still not important to me as the bandwidth)
-the bandwidth (dont worry about getting 8bit in 4k!)

I was going hold out for the 5050ub but at the price the rs540u wouldnt be that much more and I found out I could find bulb replacement for the rs540u for reasonable price from someone and THAT right there made me try the JVC. If I had to spend the amount on a bulb at the current prices online I'd NEVER own a JVC and I be waiting the the 5050ub still right now.

I'd like to see what the price would be on the 5050ub when it comes out. If it is 3k I wont be that much bothered with my purchase of the JVC. If its $2500 like some people think with the money conversion with Europe.. well.. I'll still have my JVC but I would rather of gone with the 5050ub.

The dead pixel on the new unit bothers the crap out of me!

Updated* for some reason I think the epson looked sharper, image wise. I cant get mad max fury/bladerunner 2049 to look as good as the epson and seem to get more grain with the rs540. Hopefully when Chad comes late summer/fall to calibrate I'll be more happy. Right now just not wowed by this unit. I still have to figure out how to use the MPC level settings better and to get a better focus which is why I'm sure.
Darknightsw likes this.

Denon X4400H Emotiva XPS-7 Balanced minidsp 2X4
Klipsch icon series FLC/surrounds, RSL C34E for .4
2 4cu sealed Tc Sounds Lms Ultra 5400s FB14000
Xbox one X, Shield 4k, sony 65" X900F, RS540U, 115" 2.35:1 HD Fury Linker

Last edited by MagnumMafia05; 02-13-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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