Official Sony VPL-VW295ES Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by blizaine View Post
It is an Elite Screens, 120-inch 16:9, ER120WH1. 1.1 gain. I purchased in 2012 when I got my first projector (Panasonic AE8000u).
You staying with it, or thinking about replacing it?

I've got a 106" Da-Lite matte white (1.0) that I also got in 2012 with my first projector, and not sure if I'm keeping it or going in another direction when I go 4K.

(I can't go bigger, I'm limited to this size by the space).
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post #32 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hnupe View Post
I am trying to determine is it worth me trading in my Epson 5040UB and pay a few extra thousand for this Sony?
I would wait for the upcoming JVC vs Sony reviews first and then decide.
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post #33 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
I would wait for the upcoming JVC vs Sony reviews first and then decide.
What JVC are you talking about? Is it true4k or e-shift?
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post #34 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hnupe View Post
What JVC are you talking about? Is it true4k or e-shift?
Where have you been ???

True 4K panels.
Base model is the, NX5, then next is the NX7 and NX9 is at the top.

The 295es can't hold a candle to any of them, the anticipation thread is over 7000 posts long !

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...on-thread.html
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post #35 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
I would wait for the upcoming JVC vs Sony reviews first and then decide.
Oh that will be a hot contest this year.......
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post #36 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
The 295es can't hold a candle to any of them
Based on what?
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post #37 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fedxing View Post
Based on what?
Having tracked more then the 7000 posts in the JVC thread, I think this one sums it up pretty well.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56994654
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post #38 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
Having tracked more then the 7000 posts in the JVC thread, I think this one sums it up pretty well.
Right... all assumptions
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post #39 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fedxing View Post
Right... all assumptions
I'm not here to argue with you, if you want to call what was said in that post "assumptions", then you may.

I'll see if I can dig out some screen shots for you, they're a few hundred pages back.


Come to think of it, they're not assumptions.
Sony does not have a tone mapping feature like the new JVC's have.
JVC's contrast numbers have never been exaggerated and while the new Sony units will be better then the units that Mark had experienced, I believe they will still not surpass even the entry level JVC NX5.
So yes, in that respect, that is an assumption.

If you haven't already purchased a 295es, I would wait until the production models of the JVC's are in the hands of some of the reviewers.
They will compare the Sony's and JVC's and then you can make your decision.

And my experience with Sony is not a good one, I don't plan going with them again.

I wanted to send my 300es back to Sony and have it checked out for the contrast degradation problem and I was literally shouted at by the Sony rep "there is no contrast degradation problem" !
It was an awful experience !


There was a degradation problem with many of the models, one of the high end Sony projectors were measured when they were new and months later.
It was found that their contrast had dropped significantly, there's a whole thread about.
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post #40 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
I would wait for the upcoming JVC vs Sony reviews first and then decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
Where have you been ???

True 4K panels.
Base model is the, NX5, then next is the NX7 and NX9 is at the top.

The 295es can't hold a candle to any of them, the anticipation thread is over 7000 posts long !

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...on-thread.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedxing View Post
Based on what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedxing View Post
Right... all assumptions
There will be no comparison between the Sony 295Es and the JVC N5. The N5 will stomp all over the Sonys. The Sony 695ES will be destroyed by the N5. This is not conjecture or assumptions.

I have owned a Sony 285ES. This is essentially identical to a 295ES except a few changes in HDMI which will not make any differences regarding picture quality or contrast. I have owned a Sony 675ES which is nearly identical to a Sony 695ES. While it was significantly better than the 285ES, it still had pretty greyish blacks when compared to *any* of the 5 JVCs I've owned and it also had to go.

If you like to have blacks look black, Sony won't cut it. JVC is known for not lying about their contrast ratio specs. The N5/RS1000 is rated at the exact same contrast specs as the RS440 which is a known entity. One person that compared the N5 in Germany to the 295ES called the 295ES's blacks "offensive". OFFENSIVE! Lol.

The N5/RS1000 will have about 3x the native contrast of the 295ES and about 5x times the dynamic contrast of the 285Es.

In addition to contrast, which is huge, the JVC has 20% more lumens and runs its lamp on low at 75% of max vs sony's 55% of max. As I stated in the other thread, it's a huge difference. On low lamp, the JVC is around 1250 lumens and on low lamp the Sony 295ES is around 800 lumens. It's bad enough that on a 120" or bigger screen you won't be satisfied running in low lamp on the sony but you will be on the JVC. Even my 675ES on low lamp was only around 1000 lumens due to the 55% on low lamp and it was lacking compared to my JVC RS640 on low lamp which measured around 1400 lumens. There's a huge difference.

In most other areas, the projectors will be equal. It just doesn't make any sense that anyone would choose the Sony in this case. It's not even a close match.

When I had my 285ES next to my JVC RS500, here is how they looked together on say a star field scene.
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post #41 of 682 Old 10-21-2018, 10:51 PM
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Here we go, took a bit to find them.
Note that the line of Sony's should have a better lens, but it was also said by Arrow that even the high end SONY 995/870ES and 5000ES still has some issues.

It will be very interesting when the new production JVC's are put up to the "quick brown fox" test, but even with that, those screen shots are of what the lenses will be in the production models.
The engineering samples still had some posterization issues and the iris was not working, all of which will be looked after in the production models.

Remember too, that this is all "pixel peeping", in most cases under normal viewing, none of this may not be noticed.
Sony has finally come out with 18gbs, to take of the colour banding and posterization issues, so I would hope.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56778504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56778552
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post #42 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 05:30 AM
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Could you tell me what scene that is? I would like to take a look if I have it. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post

When I had my 285ES next to my JVC RS500, here is how they looked together on say a star field scene.
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post #43 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 12:58 PM
 
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Official Sony VPL-VW295ES Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
.........



When I had my 285ES next to my JVC RS500, here is how they looked together on say a star field scene.


Even my BenQ LK970 XPR DLP doesn’t look that bad on blacks compared to the image you’re showing for the Sony 285. So I’m not sure where you got that from or if you had some setting wrong, like maybe the Enhanced (0-255)/Limited (16-235) setting set to Enhanced?

I’ve also owned similar Sonys (VW300/350/365ES) that never looked that bad on space scenes.

I’m not disagreeing that the JVCs shouldn’t be a lot better than the new model Sonys, but it appears these are pretty exaggerated if you ask me (which you didn’t! )
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post #44 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Even my BenQ LK970 XPR DLP doesn’t look that bad on blacks compared to the image you’re showing for the Sony 285. So I’m not sure where you got that from or if you had some setting wrong, like maybe the Enhanced (0-255)/Limited (16-235) setting set to Enhanced?

I’ve also owned similar Sonys (VW300/350/365ES) that never looked that bad on space scenes.

I’m not disagreeing that the JVCs shouldn’t be a lot better than the new model Sonys, but it appears these are pretty exaggerated if you ask me (which you didn’t! )
Nah none of those things. If you actually do a simultaneous side-by-side on a star field it looks almost exactly like that on the 285ES to an RS500 ( the two machines being compared at the time ). Remember the 285/295 have no iris and the jvc does. I had two cracker jack boxes each covering half a projector lens. The image was a still image of a star field full screen on a pc in RGB/8/full 1080p. It's very reproducible for anyone that can put these two projectors side-by-side and run them at the same time.
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post #45 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 07:01 PM
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I call BS. Image is rigged. And this is not a comparison thread. This is a brand new OWNERS thread for the 295es and you JVC fanboys have filled HALF THE thread with garbage about how much our new Sony projectors are inferior. We get it...same arguments we hear all the time. Better blacks, better contrast, blah, blah, blah. Heard it all before.

Yet we have a happy new SONY owner who started a NEW OWNERS thread to discuss the SONY 295ES and to celebrate all of the nice new features that I happen to be excited about:

Full 18gbps
27 ms latency for gaming - a super awesome number for a projector
Reality creation in 4K - I am a huge fan of reality creation and look forward to seeing what it does for 4K
Motion flow in 4K
Anamorphic lens capable
1500 lumens that should calibrate close to rated output
A proven design that was reviewed very positively (285)and just needed a few improvements
A street price that is well under all other competition with similar features

I am looking very forward to going to my dealer tomorrow to pick up my 295es. And I will happy to share my impressions here in the OWNERS thread. Would like to do this without hearing from the jvc fanboys please. I had some very nice input from you jvc guys when I was considering going in that direction and I posted some pleasant questions over in that thread and got some very nice responses. Thank you for that. I very much enjoyed reading the 100’s of pages of speculation prior to a production unit being available. I do not dispute JVC makes some very nice products - lets leave the rest for a different thread. I may bring my projector home and hate it. If that is the case I am happy to start a 295 sucks thread. But this is NOT that thread. (I think it will be a very nice upgrade to my very nice HW50ES by the way)

LETS KEEP DISCUSSION ON THE 295 please. Someone can start a SEPARATE shootout thread when jvc’s are actually in the wild. Until then PEACE PLEASE!
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post #46 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 08:20 PM
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Agreed!!! I have a buddy that has the Sony vpl-vw285ES and his black levels look nothing like that. And yes, it's get super tiring hearing all the comments about who's better but man, I second that...keep this thread about the Sony VPL-VW295ES. I am excited to get mine in about 1-2 weeks!!
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post #47 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 08:27 PM
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Not sure if anyone has seen cine4home but it looks like sony has a winner.

Better Performing lens

Calibrated light loss is minimal.

Native contrast Numbers

MAX 15300 : 1
MID 17900 : 1
MIN 21200 : 1

Wow, and that's wide open the way most of us run it!
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post #48 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 08:29 PM
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post #49 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
I call BS. Image is rigged. And this is not a comparison thread. This is a brand new OWNERS thread for the 295es and you JVC fanboys have filled HALF THE thread with garbage about how much our new Sony projectors are inferior. We get it...same arguments we hear all the time. Better blacks, better contrast, blah, blah, blah. Heard it all before.

Yet we have a happy new SONY owner who started a NEW OWNERS thread to discuss the SONY 295ES and to celebrate all of the nice new features that I happen to be excited about:

Full 18gbps
27 ms latency for gaming - a super awesome number for a projector
Reality creation in 4K - I am a huge fan of reality creation and look forward to seeing what it does for 4K
Motion flow in 4K
Anamorphic lens capable
1500 lumens that should calibrate close to rated output
A proven design that was reviewed very positively (285)and just needed a few improvements
A street price that is well under all other competition with similar features

I am looking very forward to going to my dealer tomorrow to pick up my 295es. And I will happy to share my impressions here in the OWNERS thread. Would like to do this without hearing from the jvc fanboys please. I had some very nice input from you jvc guys when I was considering going in that direction and I posted some pleasant questions over in that thread and got some very nice responses. Thank you for that. I very much enjoyed reading the 100’s of pages of speculation prior to a production unit being available. I do not dispute JVC makes some very nice products - lets leave the rest for a different thread. I may bring my projector home and hate it. If that is the case I am happy to start a 295 sucks thread. But this is NOT that thread. (I think it will be a very nice upgrade to my very nice HW50ES by the way)

LETS KEEP DISCUSSION ON THE 295 please. Someone can start a SEPARATE shootout thread when jvc’s are actually in the wild. Until then PEACE PLEASE!
It is rigged the guy is full of it. The guy jumps in every Sony thread and post the same ****. I'm surprised AVS hasn't blocked him

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Nah none of those things. If you actually do a simultaneous side-by-side on a star field it looks almost exactly like that on the 285ES to an RS500 ( the two machines being compared at the time ). Remember the 285/295 have no iris and the jvc does. I had two cracker jack boxes each covering half a projector lens. The image was a still image of a star field full screen on a pc in RGB/8/full 1080p. It's very reproducible for anyone that can put these two projectors side-by-side and run them at the same time.

Maybe it’s my phone I’m viewing it on, but I doubt it. All I’m saying saying is my blacks were never that bad on any recent calibrated Sony I’ve owned, and they aren’t even that bad on my LK970 DLP which has worse on/off than SXRD and LCoS (but everything else, especially live sports and HDR, are glorious! ).
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post #51 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Maybe it’s my phone I’m viewing it on, but I doubt it. All I’m saying saying is my blacks were never that bad on any recent calibrated Sony I’ve owned, and they aren’t even that bad on my LK970 DLP which has worse on/off than SXRD and LCoS (but everything else, especially live sports and HDR, are glorious! ).
Show me where you have side-by-side JVC vs Sony screens? As I said, it only looks that bad when you overlay the JVC next to it. It's not exaggerated - it looked exactly like that.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Not sure if anyone has seen cine4home but it looks like sony has a winner.

Better Performing lens

Calibrated light loss is minimal.

Native contrast Numbers

MAX 15300 : 1
MID 17900 : 1
MIN 21200 : 1

Wow, and that's wide open the way most of us run it!
I thought the 295es had no iris, it must have a fixed one then that manually adjusts but is not automatic based in content, right ?

cine4home; that's Ekki Schmitt, it would save some digging if you could post a link ?
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post #53 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
I thought the 295es had no iris, it must have a fixed one then that manually adjusts but is not automatic based in content, right ?

cine4home; that's Ekki Schmitt, it would save some digging if you could post a link ?
No the 295 has no iris control at all.

I think the min, mid, max he is talking about is zoom not iris. I sort of doubt the numbers as even Sony has said that their 4k chip native contrast is around 10000:1. It is then improved by iris and lens position. About the best I have ever seen measured for the 385 was 16,000:1 and it has an iris.
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post #54 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
No the 295 has no iris control at all.

I think the min, mid, max he is talking about is zoom not iris. I sort of doubt the numbers as even Sony has said that their 4k chip native contrast is around 10000:1. It is then improved by iris and lens position. About the best I have ever seen measured for the 385 was 16,000:1 and it has an iris.
And better performing lens, compared to what ?
I know all of the lens's in the Sony's were improved, according to what I've been reading anyway.
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post #55 of 682 Old 10-22-2018, 11:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Show me where you have side-by-side JVC vs Sony screens? As I said, it only looks that bad when you overlay the JVC next to it. It's not exaggerated - it looked exactly like that.

I never talked about the comparison, I was only speaking about of the Sony blacks themselves.

Let’s stop derailing this thread. We each said what we’re going to say. I’m not calling you a liar or that your images are rigged. I am only saying “my” Sonys were never that bad, so maybe it could’ve been calibrated it a little better (gamma, etc.).
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Quote:
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I never talked about the comparison, I was only speaking about of the Sony blacks themselves.

Let’s stop derailing this thread. We each said what we’re going to say. I’m not calling you a liar or that your images are rigged. I am only saying “my” Sonys were never that bad, so maybe it could’ve been calibrated it a little better (gamma, etc.).
It's not a derailment of the thread. It's spot on when discussing the 295ES. The blacks *are* that way. You have to do a side-by-side comparison to see it, because alone they feel a little better. This was not an issue of calibration. I'm very sensitive to poor black performance and did everything possible to lower the black floor including crushing the blacks in both brightness and gamma. It's just how it is. I know a lot of Sony fans have a hard time believing it As an owner of the 675ES, it was better, but honestly not much. This reason, and this reason alone is why I won't own Sony anymore.

It looks tons better than the image if you don't have it side-by-side with the JVC. Just like open iris blacks in a busy well-lit picture look deep due to what's around them. That's the reason it looks so bad next to the JVC. But it's really how it looks. It's not explained by poor calibration or such. The 285/295ES just have crappy blacks. Epson or optoma would be far worse.

I'm sure if you put the Sony side by side with an Optoma, it'd be almost identical comparison with Sony being on the left. Probably similar with Espon.

edit: and what I consider crappy blacks, some others probably think are "pretty good" blacks. After all, there are happy epson owners out there.
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post #57 of 682 Old 10-23-2018, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It's not a derailment of the thread. It's spot on when discussing the 295ES. The blacks *are* that way. You have to do a side-by-side comparison to see it, because alone they feel a little better. This was not an issue of calibration. I'm very sensitive to poor black performance and did everything possible to lower the black floor including crushing the blacks in both brightness and gamma. It's just how it is. I know a lot of Sony fans have a hard time believing it As an owner of the 675ES, it was better, but honestly not much. This reason, and this reason alone is why I won't own Sony anymore.



It looks tons better than the image if you don't have it side-by-side with the JVC. Just like open iris blacks in a busy well-lit picture look deep due to what's around them. That's the reason it looks so bad next to the JVC. But it's really how it looks. It's not explained by poor calibration or such. The 285/295ES just have crappy blacks. Epson or optoma would be far worse.



I'm sure if you put the Sony side by side with an Optoma, it'd be almost identical comparison with Sony being on the left. Probably similar with Espon.



edit: and what I consider crappy blacks, some others probably think are "pretty good" blacks. After all, there are happy epson owners out there.

Then why when I go to your image, zoom in and isolate only the Sony side on my display does it still look like grey crap?
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post #58 of 682 Old 10-23-2018, 12:46 AM
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Then why when I go to your image, zoom in and isolate only the Sony side on my display does it still look like grey crap?
Lol now I’m not sure if you’re serious or just giving me a hard time here. Think about it. It’s a photo of what was on the screen at the time. Therefore the left side will photo darker than the right and the resultant photo will have raised blacks compared to the left. You can’t expect the right side to look anything how it looks in real life on the 285es. In fact, if you display the left side on your Sony, the result of that is what the photo of the right side is on a display that can display absolute black.

The only thing you can take from the photo is the relationship between the two projectors not the actual colors as displayed in the photo on your monitor / projector.
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post #59 of 682 Old 10-23-2018, 03:43 AM
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Another owners thread ruined.
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post #60 of 682 Old 10-23-2018, 06:52 AM
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Yea it has no iris but those contrast numbers at max, mid and min zoom which is pretty impressive and I can't think of any reason why these numbers are wrong.


MAX 15300 : 1
MID 17900 : 1
MIN 21200 : 1

The better performing, I think he was referring to the 285.

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