Official Sony VPL-VW695ES Owners Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
What is your throw and screen gain?

My concern is that as incredible as the 695 is, it's still a lamp-driven projector and will dim much faster than a laser-driven one as the bulb ages, especially as you would have to run yours in high lamp to adequately light up that size screen.
Throw is 30' and screen gain would be 1.1

Thanks!
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post #392 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I have a question about screen size capabilities of the 695. I want to use a 200" wide by 85" high 2.35 ratio screen with the 695es. When I go to projectorscreen.com and calculate the ftL is says 15.25 which is sufficient for my blacked out theater. Is this an accurate calculation? Has anyone used the 695 on a 200" screen?
Based on the following screen gains:

1.0 would need 2,393 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,632 lumens.
1.1 would need 2,176 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,394 lumens.
1.3 would need 1,841 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,025 lumens.
1.5 would need 1,595 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 1,755 lumens.

You are not going to get to 15.25FL with your setup using a VW695. You really need a brighter projector or live with a lot lower image brightness and change lamps often, or a smaller screen.
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post #393 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Based on the following screen gains:

1.0 would need 2,393 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,632 lumens.
1.1 would need 2,176 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,394 lumens.
1.3 would need 1,841 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 2,025 lumens.
1.5 would need 1,595 lumens. With your throw loss you would need a projector that could do around 1,755 lumens.

You are not going to get to 15.25FL with your setup using a VW695. You really need a brighter projector or live with a lot lower image brightness and change lamps often, or a smaller screen.
Mike, I know you have much more experience but I'm confused. When I plug the numbers into the brightness calculator at projectorscreen.com, I get a ftL estimation of 16.78 using 1800 lumens with a 200w x 85h screen with 1.1 gain. What am I doing wrong?
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post #394 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
Mike, I know you have much more experience but I'm confused. When I plug the numbers into the brightness calculator at projectorscreen.com, I get a ftL estimation of 16.78 using 1800 lumens with a 200w x 85h screen with 1.1 gain. What am I doing wrong?
If that program actually uses an 85" x 200" size for the screen, then it is designed wrong. The projector is throwing a 16:9 image all the time. The black bars are just above and below your scope screen. So the size that should be used is 113" x 200".
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post #395 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If that program actually uses an 85" x 200" size for the screen, then it is designed wrong. The projector is throwing a 16:9 image all the time. The black bars are just above and below your scope screen. So the size that should be used is 113" x 200".
It's actually worse. The projector is throwing a 17:9 image all the time so you have to "eat" about 110 lumens just because you're only using 16:9 of it.

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post #396 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It's actually worse. The projector is throwing a 17:9 image all the time so you have to "eat" about 110 lumens just because you're only using 16:9 of it.
He is using a scope screen, so he can gain that loss back by using full panel width when projecting scope movies.
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post #397 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 07:57 AM
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He is using a scope screen, so he can gain that loss back by using full panel width when projecting scope movies.
I forgot to mention that I use a Panamorph UH-480 anamorphic lens to allow me to use the entire (or close) chip panel. Does that change things?
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post #398 of 554 Old 03-13-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I forgot to mention that I use a Panamorph UH-480 anamorphic lens to allow me to use the entire (or close) chip panel. Does that change things?
Okay, so you will not be able to use full panel width and now your throw is toward the long side, so around 15% light loss, but the lens will gain that back and then some. Probably an increase of 5% across the board. Still not enough to get anywhere near 15FL.
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post #399 of 554 Old 03-16-2019, 08:51 AM
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Very good to hear...yeah, these 695ES are truly amazing machines. It's the best projector I've ever owned.
There is nothing wrong with picking the right projector for yourself. I am all about that

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I have a question about screen size capabilities of the 695. I want to use a 200" wide by 85" high 2.35 ratio screen with the 695es. When I go to projectorscreen.com and calculate the ftL is says 15.25 which is sufficient for my blacked out theater. Is this an accurate calculation? Has anyone used the 695 on a 200" screen?
How big is that room, That is a BIG screen
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post #400 of 554 Old 03-17-2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I have a question about screen size capabilities of the 695. I want to use a 200" wide by 85" high 2.35 ratio screen with the 695es. When I go to projectorscreen.com and calculate the ftL is says 15.25 which is sufficient for my blacked out theater. Is this an accurate calculation? Has anyone used the 695 on a 200" screen?
Projectorcentral.com says that your projector will only produce 7fL at that size (though I think there is something wrong at projectorcentral.com)
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post #401 of 554 Old 03-17-2019, 07:52 PM
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I just saw this..might be old news already on AVS but I am not on here every day. Posting this here because he also had the Sony 695 on hand and does a summary of both.


https://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-dl...viewed/?page=2

Comparison and Competition
Near the RS2000's price point, only one projector comes to mind that offers true competition to the JVC: the Sony VPL-VW695ES priced at $9,999. Like the RS2000, the Sony is a native 4K HDR capable projector offering, on paper, very similar performance and features. I was fortunate enough to have both of these projectors here at the same time and was able to do a shootout between them. The most obvious difference between these two projectors was in contrast performance on darker video content. The JVC simply has more apparent contrast and a much darker level of black. Beyond that, both projectors looked remarkably similar in terms of image sharpness, native motion handling, shadow detail, and color reproduction. While the Sony gives up a little in ultimate contrast performance, it makes up for it with better video processing. Sony's motion smoothing software, called Motion Flow, offers better subjective performance and more modes over the RS2000. Input lag on the Sony, an important metric for gamers, is more than 10 ms faster. I also think Sony's smart sharpening software, called Reality Creation, does a noticeably better job compared to JVC's smart sharpening software, called Enhance in the MPC menu, for those who like to artificially sharpen the image.

If you're someone who is primarily watching movies, I'd recommend the JVC. If you're someone who plans on gaming or watching a lot of sports, I think the Sony is a better fit. Both projectors offer good performance in all areas; however, each have a small lead in these specific areas. Choosing which to buy ultimately comes down to the type of content you view more.

Those looking to upgrade from a JVC e-shift model will be pleased overall with the RS2000. While falling a little behind in contrast performance from the previous mid-tier models, it's an upgrade in most areas. Even though it's using the same lens found on previous models, I found the increase in native resolution made a large difference in perceived sharpness, image stability and three-dimensionality. Especially with UHD and HDR10 content, the RS2000 possesses a level of image finesse that overtakes anything I've witnessed from previous JVC projectors.

Conclusion
With the RS2000, we now have a high-performance home video projector that delivers native 4K resolution, high contrast, and high brightness for under $10,000. It's not perfect, nor the best fit for everyone, but for the most part, the RS2000 lives up to the hype. It shines best with HD or UHD movie or TV show content, while still offering good performance for those who want to game or view sports. It also only requires minor adjustments to get a reference image. For those looking for one of the best performing projectors in the under $10,000 market, you owe it to yourself to check out the RS2000.
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post #402 of 554 Old 03-19-2019, 08:44 AM
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I am three weeks into the 695 and I am very happy with it. No issues but it s still going though its shakeout period. I had been researching projectors for the last three years waiting for the right one. I

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post #403 of 554 Old 03-21-2019, 10:37 PM
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Question about HDR. Are you guys keeping it on auto or using the HDR Reference mode?
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post #404 of 554 Old 03-22-2019, 04:27 AM
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Question about HDR. Are you guys keeping it on auto or using the HDR Reference mode?
I am using Auto, which is only in effect for me with AppleTV (for physical media, my DP-UB820 is outputting HDR as SDR/BT.2020).
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post #405 of 554 Old 03-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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I am using Auto, which is only in effect for me with AppleTV (for physical media, my DP-UB820 is outputting HDR as SDR/BT.2020).
I am having a 695ES installed on Monday replacing the 665ES that I have had for over three years. I am considering purchasing the Panasonic UB820 for use with the 695ES. Does the Panasonic UB820 afford substantially better image quality when playing back HDR content with the 695ES than the 695ES alone does? Does the Panasonic UB820 HDR optimizer work when using it to stream Netflix and Amazon video with HDR content? (I have researched this question online and get a variety of conflicting answers with some saying that the UB820 does not allow HDR optimization to work with streaming content and others saying that it does.) If you use the Panasonic UB820 with HDR content (either streaming or Blu-ray UHD) what setting do you have the HDR on with the 665ES? Finally, what is the advantage in terms of image quality of outputting SDR/bt. 2020 from the Panasonic UB820 to the Sony 695ES?

My main reason for replacing my 665ES with the 695ES is to improve the quality of streaming content from Netflix and Amazon that has HDR. I have currently a Panasonic UB900 that gives very nice image quality with my 665ES with UHD Blu-ray titles having HDR, but the streaming services are washed out looking with terrible blacks and an overall poor picture. This may be because the 665ES being limited to 10.2 GHz bandwidth on its HDMI2 input is not able to play back 4K + HDR+ 60p content which is what my Panasonic UB900, Samsung BD8500, and Roku 4K all output. I have an nVidia Shield that can be set to output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but it too produces a washed out poor quality image on the 665ES. My Apple TV will also output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but again the resulting onscreen image is washed out and of poor quality. In short, I am looking for a way to obtain the best possible image quality with 4K streaming content having HDR on my new 695ES.

Thank you for reading this and I appreciate any suggestions that you or others can give to me.

Tom
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post #406 of 554 Old 03-22-2019, 09:05 AM
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I am having a 695ES installed on Monday replacing the 665ES that I have had for over three years. I am considering purchasing the Panasonic UB820 for use with the 695ES. Does the Panasonic UB820 afford substantially better image quality when playing back HDR content with the 695ES than the 695ES alone does? Does the Panasonic UB820 HDR optimizer work when using it to stream Netflix and Amazon video with HDR content? (I have researched this question online and get a variety of conflicting answers with some saying that the UB820 does not allow HDR optimization to work with streaming content and others saying that it does.) If you use the Panasonic UB820 with HDR content (either streaming or Blu-ray UHD) what setting do you have the HDR on with the 665ES? Finally, what is the advantage in terms of image quality of outputting SDR/bt. 2020 from the Panasonic UB820 to the Sony 695ES?

My main reason for replacing my 665ES with the 695ES is to improve the quality of streaming content from Netflix and Amazon that has HDR. I have currently a Panasonic UB900 that gives very nice image quality with my 665ES with UHD Blu-ray titles having HDR, but the streaming services are washed out looking with terrible blacks and an overall poor picture. This may be because the 665ES being limited to 10.2 GHz bandwidth on its HDMI2 input is not able to play back 4K + HDR+ 60p content which is what my Panasonic UB900, Samsung BD8500, and Roku 4K all output. I have an nVidia Shield that can be set to output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but it too produces a washed out poor quality image on the 665ES. My Apple TV will also output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but again the resulting onscreen image is washed out and of poor quality. In short, I am looking for a way to obtain the best possible image quality with 4K streaming content having HDR on my new 695ES.

Thank you for reading this and I appreciate any suggestions that you or others can give to me.

Tom
You are asking a lot of good questions. I may not have concrete enough answers for you but I'll give my impressions. My theater's only been completed for ~3 weeks so I am still tweaking!

I have not used the 820 for streaming apps yet, but I've used it with lots of 4k disc content. I think that between all the tone mapping settings in the 820, and all the monkeying you can do with the picture settings in the projector, there are a lot of ways to achieve something that looks great... the trick is finding settings that strike the balance between all the different types of scenes, and content, that's out there.

One of the best examples I can give of this is that in using SDR/BT.2020, you are able to change gamma in the projector (not available with HDR). It's also easy to go overboard punching up the contrast on one scene, to then realize on other scenes that you are likely clipping detail. HDR by default also does things like kick the lamp up to high mode, but that's changeable.

The 820's tone mapping can bring out additional detail in bright areas (such as texture in flames) but again, you'll find if you focus only on those small areas, there can be other unintended consequences to the image.

The 820 is a nice piece of gear. It's very quick to load discs. I also have a Sony X700 in a different room, which infuriates me with its lack of auto detection for dolby vision (not an issue with 695), and issues with skipping, especially when switching layers. If you are a tweaker, go with the 820 (open box at bestbuy.com saves some coin!). If you want set it and forget it, the Sony X800 might be adequate for a lot less money.

I don't have issues with images being washed out, from any source. Near-black performance in dark scenes is not ideal with ANY content, but my setup doesn't help either (Paladin DCR lens, and 1.4 gain screen).
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post #407 of 554 Old 03-22-2019, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomWheeler View Post
I am having a 695ES installed on Monday replacing the 665ES that I have had for over three years. I am considering purchasing the Panasonic UB820 for use with the 695ES. Does the Panasonic UB820 afford substantially better image quality when playing back HDR content with the 695ES than the 695ES alone does? Does the Panasonic UB820 HDR optimizer work when using it to stream Netflix and Amazon video with HDR content? (I have researched this question online and get a variety of conflicting answers with some saying that the UB820 does not allow HDR optimization to work with streaming content and others saying that it does.) If you use the Panasonic UB820 with HDR content (either streaming or Blu-ray UHD) what setting do you have the HDR on with the 665ES? Finally, what is the advantage in terms of image quality of outputting SDR/bt. 2020 from the Panasonic UB820 to the Sony 695ES?



My main reason for replacing my 665ES with the 695ES is to improve the quality of streaming content from Netflix and Amazon that has HDR. I have currently a Panasonic UB900 that gives very nice image quality with my 665ES with UHD Blu-ray titles having HDR, but the streaming services are washed out looking with terrible blacks and an overall poor picture. This may be because the 665ES being limited to 10.2 GHz bandwidth on its HDMI2 input is not able to play back 4K + HDR+ 60p content which is what my Panasonic UB900, Samsung BD8500, and Roku 4K all output. I have an nVidia Shield that can be set to output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but it too produces a washed out poor quality image on the 665ES. My Apple TV will also output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but again the resulting onscreen image is washed out and of poor quality. In short, I am looking for a way to obtain the best possible image quality with 4K streaming content having HDR on my new 695ES.



Thank you for reading this and I appreciate any suggestions that you or others can give to me.



Tom
Depending upon where you live...have you had your projector calibrated? I have the 385 with a chad b calibration and the ub900. Its ver watchable on a 110 16x9. If your just wanting to trade projectors I can understand but think you might be a bit disappointed without some further tweaking.

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post #408 of 554 Old 03-22-2019, 01:18 PM
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Depending upon where you live...have you had your projector calibrated? I have the 385 with a chad b calibration and the ub900. Its ver watchable on a 110 16x9. If your just wanting to trade projectors I can understand but think you might be a bit disappointed without some further tweaking.

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Daniel and Jeff,

Thank you both for responding to my questions regarding HDR and the 665ES. Daniel your comments regarding the need to tweak settings and observe the impact on both the brightest and darkest areas for various scenes is well taken, and I appreciate your taking the time to post those.

When it came out about 3.5 years ago, the Sony 665ES was the first Sony projector to be "HDR compatible". However, it was not until Sony issued a firmware update in late September (more than 10 months after the 665 shipped) that HDR was possible on this projector. The 665ES by virtue of its 10.2 Gb bandwidth HDMI input has always been limited to 4K 30p HDR at best, and this may be one reason why none of my streaming devices give a very good HDR image since most streaming devices send their 4K HDR content at 60p. I believe also that Sony's tone mapping implementation on the 665 was done poorly and is the major contributor to washed out quality of the HDR streaming content. I am hoping that over three years and two generations of projectors later Sony has done a better job of tone mapping with the 695 to avoid these grey blacks and washed out quality of HDR streaming material.

Daniel, I am not trading my 665ES. My intention is to replace a Sony 95ES projector that I have in my downstairs home theater with the 665ES that is now in my upstairs home theater where the new 695ES will reside. However, last week when it was turned on suddenly and without warning my 665ES produced an image so dim on my 92 in. Stewart Studiotek 1.3 screen that I could barely see it even in high lamp mode. Changing the lamp to a new Sony LMP-H280 lamp did not help. I discovered that the dynamic iris in the 665 had stuck almost fully closed and would not open. That is when I called my local Sony dealer and placed an order for the 695ES with the intention of shipping the 665ES back for non-warranty repair. For three days each time I turned on the 665ES the iris failed to open and I was presented with an unwatchable dim picture. Then, two days ago when I turned on the 665ES (and every time I have turned it on since), the dynamic iris has opened and functioned perfectly presenting a splendid picture. However, I decided to go ahead with the 695ES purchase and move the 665 downstairs. I cannot send it for repair when it is working perfectly, but I do not know how long it will do so.

I had also been seriously considering replacing the 665ES with either the new NX7 or NX9 projectors, but JVC's slow delay in getting those projectors out, the variety of problems early adopters of those projectors have experienced, and, most of all the much slower synch time of the JVC projectors vs. the Sony projectors, ultimately resulted in my decision to go with the 695ES. Synch times are very important to me since I use the projector as our only upstairs TV and I change sources fairly frequently. The Sony 665ES handles these synch changes in 2-3 seconds.

Again, thank you both for your responses.

Tom
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post #409 of 554 Old 03-23-2019, 05:03 AM
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Daniel and Jeff,

Thank you both for responding to my questions regarding HDR and the 665ES. Daniel your comments regarding the need to tweak settings and observe the impact on both the brightest and darkest areas for various scenes is well taken, and I appreciate your taking the time to post those.

When it came out about 3.5 years ago, the Sony 665ES was the first Sony projector to be "HDR compatible". However, it was not until Sony issued a firmware update in late September (more than 10 months after the 665 shipped) that HDR was possible on this projector. The 665ES by virtue of its 10.2 Gb bandwidth HDMI input has always been limited to 4K 30p HDR at best, and this may be one reason why none of my streaming devices give a very good HDR image since most streaming devices send their 4K HDR content at 60p. I believe also that Sony's tone mapping implementation on the 665 was done poorly and is the major contributor to washed out quality of the HDR streaming content. I am hoping that over three years and two generations of projectors later Sony has done a better job of tone mapping with the 695 to avoid these grey blacks and washed out quality of HDR streaming material.

Daniel, I am not trading my 665ES. My intention is to replace a Sony 95ES projector that I have in my downstairs home theater with the 665ES that is now in my upstairs home theater where the new 695ES will reside. However, last week when it was turned on suddenly and without warning my 665ES produced an image so dim on my 92 in. Stewart Studiotek 1.3 screen that I could barely see it even in high lamp mode. Changing the lamp to a new Sony LMP-H280 lamp did not help. I discovered that the dynamic iris in the 665 had stuck almost fully closed and would not open. That is when I called my local Sony dealer and placed an order for the 695ES with the intention of shipping the 665ES back for non-warranty repair. For three days each time I turned on the 665ES the iris failed to open and I was presented with an unwatchable dim picture. Then, two days ago when I turned on the 665ES (and every time I have turned it on since), the dynamic iris has opened and functioned perfectly presenting a splendid picture. However, I decided to go ahead with the 695ES purchase and move the 665 downstairs. I cannot send it for repair when it is working perfectly, but I do not know how long it will do so.

I had also been seriously considering replacing the 665ES with either the new NX7 or NX9 projectors, but JVC's slow delay in getting those projectors out, the variety of problems early adopters of those projectors have experienced, and, most of all the much slower synch time of the JVC projectors vs. the Sony projectors, ultimately resulted in my decision to go with the 695ES. Synch times are very important to me since I use the projector as our only upstairs TV and I change sources fairly frequently. The Sony 665ES handles these synch changes in 2-3 seconds.

Again, thank you both for your responses.

Tom
The Sony's of that era down converted any 4k HDR 10 bit source to 4:2:0 8bit. That is what causes the washed out image. The tone mapping is basically the remit of the 'Contrast (HDR)' slider.

You won't be disappointed in the 695/570. It is a great display.

Also, if you want some advice, avoid reading through the forums too much unless you have a specific issue. Because all that will happen is naysayers will have you with your nose to the screen noticing things that simply didn't matter or even catch your eye until you read about it on here.
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I am having a 695ES installed on Monday replacing the 665ES that I have had for over three years. I am considering purchasing the Panasonic UB820 for use with the 695ES. Does the Panasonic UB820 afford substantially better image quality when playing back HDR content with the 695ES than the 695ES alone does? Does the Panasonic UB820 HDR optimizer work when using it to stream Netflix and Amazon video with HDR content? (I have researched this question online and get a variety of conflicting answers with some saying that the UB820 does not allow HDR optimization to work with streaming content and others saying that it does.) If you use the Panasonic UB820 with HDR content (either streaming or Blu-ray UHD) what setting do you have the HDR on with the 665ES? Finally, what is the advantage in terms of image quality of outputting SDR/bt. 2020 from the Panasonic UB820 to the Sony 695ES?

My main reason for replacing my 665ES with the 695ES is to improve the quality of streaming content from Netflix and Amazon that has HDR. I have currently a Panasonic UB900 that gives very nice image quality with my 665ES with UHD Blu-ray titles having HDR, but the streaming services are washed out looking with terrible blacks and an overall poor picture. This may be because the 665ES being limited to 10.2 GHz bandwidth on its HDMI2 input is not able to play back 4K + HDR+ 60p content which is what my Panasonic UB900, Samsung BD8500, and Roku 4K all output. I have an nVidia Shield that can be set to output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but it too produces a washed out poor quality image on the 665ES. My Apple TV will also output 4K streaming content with HDR at 24p, but again the resulting onscreen image is washed out and of poor quality. In short, I am looking for a way to obtain the best possible image quality with 4K streaming content having HDR on my new 695ES.

Thank you for reading this and I appreciate any suggestions that you or others can give to me.

Tom
Hey Tom, if your main reason for the upgrade is for better HDR, I think you're making a mistake on the upgrade. I think your money would be much better spent instead buying a lumagen and using it to tone map your HDR from all sources. This will send SDR to your projector that is tone mapped for its capabilities and will look far better than any HDR you receive on any of these projectors. And the lumagen will handle any input so netflix, shield, all of it will be improved.

The 695ES isn't that much improved over the 665ES otherwise. I mean same panel, lamp, iris. You get some improved processing and better stock HDR curves and better HDMI input. But unless your 665ES has panel degradation, that's about it.

The lumagen would solve all your problems you listed above as well as completely eliminate the need to have 4k/60 HDR since the lumagen will tone map that to 4k/60 SDR etc.

Now if you have another reason to upgrade from 665ES to 695ES, maybe its still a good move. But based solely on what you've stated, I don't think it is.

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The Sony's of that era down converted any 4k HDR 10 bit source to 4:2:0 8bit. That is what causes the washed out image. The tone mapping is basically the remit of the 'Contrast (HDR)' slider.

You won't be disappointed in the 695/570. It is a great display.

Also, if you want some advice, avoid reading through the forums too much unless you have a specific issue. Because all that will happen is naysayers will have you with your nose to the screen noticing things that simply didn't matter or even catch your eye until you read about it on here.
Archibald,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for your advice. I did not realize that the 665ES down converted any HDR 10 bit source to 8-bit. No wonder streaming HDR content looks so washed out! I am amazed at how good UHD's can look when played back on the 665ES via my Panasonic UB900 which does allow a degree of control over the onscreen image and allows me to get reasonably good HDR on the screen without the washed out look of streaming content.

I have been reading the AVS projector forums regularly for many years and I have come to understand the difference between passion and wisdom as well as to know from their comments those who have really first-hand knowledge vs. those who have opinions that may or may not be based on their experience and expertise. I have learned a great deal from the experts on this forum, and occasionally I have contributed to the discussions when I had something hopefully of value to say. Again. thank you for responding.

Tom
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Archibald,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for your advice. I did not realize that the 665ES down converted any HDR 10 bit source to 8-bit. No wonder streaming HDR content looks so washed out! I am amazed at how good UHD's can look when played back on the 665ES via my Panasonic UB900 which does allow a degree of control over the onscreen image and allows me to get reasonably good HDR on the screen without the washed out look of streaming content.

I have been reading the AVS projector forums regularly for many years and I have come to understand the difference between passion and wisdom as well as to know from their comments those who have really first-hand knowledge vs. those who have opinions that may or may not be based on their experience and expertise. I have learned a great deal from the experts on this forum, and occasionally I have contributed to the discussions when I had something hopefully of value to say. Again. thank you for responding.

Tom
No problem.

It is all to do with fps. Anything above 30fps on the 665/675 will be down converted to 8 bit (internally with the 10bit flag still intact in the case of the 675) and that looks even worse with horrid banding!

But that is only on signals with 50 or 60hz refresh rates. On 24Hz UHD blu-rays the full 10 bit capabilities of the panels can be used. It isn't the bandwidth that causes it as such, it is lack of processing power.

Anyway, the 695 has full 18Gbps HDMI and the X1 processor and thus can handle 4k HDR in 4:2:2 at the full 60hz. It will look great!

If the 695/570 had been around two years ago I think I would have one now and still be using it.

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Hey Tom, if your main reason for the upgrade is for better HDR, I think you're making a mistake on the upgrade. I think your money would be much better spent instead buying a lumagen and using it to tone map your HDR from all sources. This will send SDR to your projector that is tone mapped for its capabilities and will look far better than any HDR you receive on any of these projectors. And the lumagen will handle any input so netflix, shield, all of it will be improved.

The 695ES isn't that much improved over the 665ES otherwise. I mean same panel, lamp, iris. You get some improved processing and better stock HDR curves and better HDMI input. But unless your 665ES has panel degradation, that's about it.

The lumagen would solve all your problems you listed above as well as completely eliminate the need to have 4k/60 HDR since the lumagen will tone map that to 4k/60 SDR etc.

Now if you have another reason to upgrade from 665ES to 695ES, maybe its still a good move. But based solely on what you've stated, I don't think it is.
Mark,

You comments are well taken. I am aware that the 695ES is substantially the same projector as the 665ES that I now have with the exception mainly of having 18.2 GHz HDMI inputs as opposed to the 10.2 Gb of my 665ES. however, I decided to go ahead with the purchase of the 695ES partly because of its similarities to my 665ES which has given me a beautifully sharp picture (no doubt helped substantially by my small 92 in. diagonal screen -- the largest I can have in this room) with rich blacks and a great 3D quality to the image. (I should add that I have observed absolutely no evidence of panel degradation in either my 665ES or 95ES since they were installed. The blacks are excellent with no hint of grey. I am sure the JVC blacks are deeper, but I have never even seen a JVC as no dealer within 400 miles of here has a JVC to demo.) Until the dynamic iris failed in the closed position last week, I had no immediate need to replace this projector and I was following the posts on the JVC NX7 and NX9 with great interest. However, since my dynamic iris failed on the 665ES everything suddenly changed and in order to have a TV in the room where we normally watch TV, I needed to replace this projector with a new one and the JVC's are simply not available. I then came to this forum and elsewhere and saw that the owners of the 695ES, which has been out now for at least six months, were all very happy with the projector. My plan was to have the 665's dynamic iris repaired or replaced and move it downstairs to replace my Sony 95ES 1080p projector in that location. Although the dynamic iris of the 665ES has (as of three days ago) suddenly come back to life and is operating exactly as it should, I decided to go ahead with the 695ES since my dealer had already ordered it, and I can certainly use the 665ES for 4K downstairs.

Regarding HDR, your comments on the Lumagen Pro are very interesting. I have been following the discussion of the Lumagen Pro and Radiance on the AVS forums and I have noted that Lumagen is supposed to release an upgrade to the firmware of the Lumagen that will tone map HDR on a frame-by-frame basis. Should this happen I will certainly be moving forward with the purchase of a Lumagen Pro to use with my 695ES. I do believe that you are correct that this would give me the best possible picture with HDR content from any source (streaming or UHD Blu-ray). One thing that has caused me to hesitate on the purchase of a Lumagen is that it is apparently complicated to use and get the best picture, and I would be strictly on my own doing this as I am sure my local dealer has absolutely no experience with the Lumagen processors.

In summary, my plan is to move forward on Monday with the installation of the new 695ES, have it calibrated by Chad B (if I can get him here) after we have 100-200 hours on the lamp), keep an eye on developments with the Lumagen Pro to see if they implement frame-by-frame tone mapping, and also follow the developments in the possible introduction of a stand-alone madVR box.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful comments.

Tom
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Mark,



You comments are well taken. I am aware that the 695ES is substantially the same projector as the 665ES that I now have with the exception mainly of having 18.2 GHz HDMI inputs as opposed to the 10.2 Gb of my 665ES. however, I decided to go ahead with the purchase of the 695ES partly because of its similarities to my 665ES which has given me a beautifully sharp picture (no doubt helped substantially by my small 92 in. diagonal screen -- the largest I can have in this room) with rich blacks and a great 3D quality to the image. (I should add that I have observed absolutely no evidence of panel degradation in either my 665ES or 95ES since they were installed. The blacks are excellent with no hint of grey. I am sure the JVC blacks are deeper, but I have never even seen a JVC as no dealer within 400 miles of here has a JVC to demo.) Until the dynamic iris failed in the closed position last week, I had no immediate need to replace this projector and I was following the posts on the JVC NX7 and NX9 with great interest. However, since my dynamic iris failed on the 665ES everything suddenly changed and in order to have a TV in the room where we normally watch TV, I needed to replace this projector with a new one and the JVC's are simply not available. I then came to this forum and elsewhere and saw that the owners of the 695ES, which has been out now for at least six months, were all very happy with the projector. My plan was to have the 665's dynamic iris repaired or replaced and move it downstairs to replace my Sony 95ES 1080p projector in that location. Although the dynamic iris of the 665ES has (as of three days ago) suddenly come back to life and is operating exactly as it should, I decided to go ahead with the 695ES since my dealer had already ordered it, and I can certainly use the 665ES for 4K downstairs.



Regarding HDR, your comments on the Lumagen Pro are very interesting. I have been following the discussion of the Lumagen Pro and Radiance on the AVS forums and I have noted that Lumagen is supposed to release an upgrade to the firmware of the Lumagen that will tone map HDR on a frame-by-frame basis. Should this happen I will certainly be moving forward with the purchase of a Lumagen Pro to use with my 695ES. I do believe that you are correct that this would give me the best possible picture with HDR content from any source (streaming or UHD Blu-ray). One thing that has caused me to hesitate on the purchase of a Lumagen is that it is apparently complicated to use and get the best picture, and I would be strictly on my own doing this as I am sure my local dealer has absolutely no experience with the Lumagen processors.



In summary, my plan is to move forward on Monday with the installation of the new 695ES, have it calibrated by Chad B (if I can get him here) after we have 100-200 hours on the lamp), keep an eye on developments with the Lumagen Pro to see if they implement frame-by-frame tone mapping, and also follow the developments in the possible introduction of a stand-alone madVR box.



Again, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful comments.



Tom


Dynamic Tone Mapping has been released for the Lumagen.


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Oh, there you are, Kaotikr.

You sold your 695ES for the RS2000, right? Can you please help us all and tell us your thoughts and highlight the differences you noticed between the two? Thank you in advance.
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Oh, there you are, Kaotikr.



You sold your 695ES for the RS2000, right? Can you please help us all and tell us your thoughts and highlight the differences you noticed between the two? Thank you in advance.


I’m actually using an RS540. I was going to get the RS2000 but I had a friend want my 695 and couldn’t get the RS2000 at the time due to delays.

I might be back with the 695 as I’ve setup my room with a high end gaming PC with a 2080ti and could use some 4K for that gaming and the low input lag.

I see yours is for sale, what’s next for you?

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I’m actually using an RS540. I was going to get the RS2000 but I had a friend want my 695 and couldn’t get the RS2000 at the time due to delays.

I might be back with the 695 as I’ve setup my room with a high end gaming PC with a 2080ti and could use some 4K for that gaming and the low input lag.

I see yours is for sale, what’s next for you?
I was at first looking to get the LK970 but now I'm on the fence. I might just keep my 695ES. It has no stand-out negatives...well other than a relatively high MSRP IMO.
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I might be back with the 695 as I’ve setup my room with a high end gaming PC with a 2080ti and could use some 4K for that gaming and the low input lag.
I forgot to ask...why might you go with the 695ES again rather than the RS2000?
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I forgot to ask...why might you go with the 695ES again rather than the RS2000?


Might just be familiarity with the Sony and what I saw with mine. I know either would do what I need.

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I was at first looking to get the LK970 but now I'm on the fence. I might just keep my 695ES. It has no stand-out negatives...well other than a relatively high MSRP IMO.
Honesty, you're super happy with your 695ES I think you should just keep it. Why not wait for a year or two when the difference between new models might be that much greater? The only exception to this, in my opinion, is if you're going to hop onto a closeout price on an RS4500 because those are going away and the replacement will be substantially more money.

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Mark,

You comments are well taken. I am aware that the 695ES is substantially the same projector as the 665ES that I now have with the exception mainly of having 18.2 GHz HDMI inputs as opposed to the 10.2 Gb of my 665ES. however, I decided to go ahead with the purchase of the 695ES partly because of its similarities to my 665ES which has given me a beautifully sharp picture (no doubt helped substantially by my small 92 in. diagonal screen -- the largest I can have in this room) with rich blacks and a great 3D quality to the image. (I should add that I have observed absolutely no evidence of panel degradation in either my 665ES or 95ES since they were installed. The blacks are excellent with no hint of grey. I am sure the JVC blacks are deeper, but I have never even seen a JVC as no dealer within 400 miles of here has a JVC to demo.) Until the dynamic iris failed in the closed position last week, I had no immediate need to replace this projector and I was following the posts on the JVC NX7 and NX9 with great interest. However, since my dynamic iris failed on the 665ES everything suddenly changed and in order to have a TV in the room where we normally watch TV, I needed to replace this projector with a new one and the JVC's are simply not available. I then came to this forum and elsewhere and saw that the owners of the 695ES, which has been out now for at least six months, were all very happy with the projector. My plan was to have the 665's dynamic iris repaired or replaced and move it downstairs to replace my Sony 95ES 1080p projector in that location. Although the dynamic iris of the 665ES has (as of three days ago) suddenly come back to life and is operating exactly as it should, I decided to go ahead with the 695ES since my dealer had already ordered it, and I can certainly use the 665ES for 4K downstairs.

Regarding HDR, your comments on the Lumagen Pro are very interesting. I have been following the discussion of the Lumagen Pro and Radiance on the AVS forums and I have noted that Lumagen is supposed to release an upgrade to the firmware of the Lumagen that will tone map HDR on a frame-by-frame basis. Should this happen I will certainly be moving forward with the purchase of a Lumagen Pro to use with my 695ES. I do believe that you are correct that this would give me the best possible picture with HDR content from any source (streaming or UHD Blu-ray). One thing that has caused me to hesitate on the purchase of a Lumagen is that it is apparently complicated to use and get the best picture, and I would be strictly on my own doing this as I am sure my local dealer has absolutely no experience with the Lumagen processors.

In summary, my plan is to move forward on Monday with the installation of the new 695ES, have it calibrated by Chad B (if I can get him here) after we have 100-200 hours on the lamp), keep an eye on developments with the Lumagen Pro to see if they implement frame-by-frame tone mapping, and also follow the developments in the possible introduction of a stand-alone madVR box.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful comments.

Tom
I didn't know your 665ES had a defective iris. That makes more sense now why you're looking for a replacement. The Lumagen is out now with dynamic tone mapping. My opinion is that if you run HDR through the lumagen onto your 665ES (with iris fixed) and a 695ES, it will look pretty much the same. There's also ENVY which will probably have even superior tone mapping to the lumagen as it is madVR based. But it has no clear release schedule.
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