BenQ LK990 - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 763Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #931 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 12:39 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawiguy998 View Post
Hi SaulP,



I’m eager to hear what feedback you get from Panamorph as I plan to order this duo for my screen. Do you believe the issue was mount related only? My dealer had Panamorph on the phone last week to approve our set-up and no mention was made of a possible issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
You may be right about the Paladin. But, the Panamorph website specifically lists the LK990 (and the 970) as compatible with that lens. I’m sure they’ll make it right.



https://www.panamorph.com/other-proj...ibility-guide/

I’m betting that they designed and approved it based on the HT chassis and just “pencil whipped” the compatibility for the LKs because it uses the same exterior chassis, not taking into account the larger, more protruding lens on them.
Dave Harper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #932 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 07:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,175
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked: 573
This is probably the wrong place for this question, but is there a reason I shouldn't use my UH480 A-Lens with this projector? I see people moving from the UH480 to the Paladin. I'm sure it's a much nicer piece of glass, but I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

EDIT: Found it buried in a note on the Panamorph website. Apparently the older lenses aren't sharp enough. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side.

I guess the next logical question is, if you're using a lens to gain brightness on a 2.4 image, then don't you lose brightness if you are leaving the lens in place for 16:9 content?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FoundIt.png
Views:	552
Size:	197.4 KB
ID:	2553322  

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!
The Plains Theater Has Begun
Pro Designed Room - Measurements Before/During/After Treatments.

Last edited by J_P_A; 04-15-2019 at 11:51 AM.
J_P_A is offline  
post #933 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 09:32 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think you’ll be fine. The image was pretty awesome with minor tweaking. It just isn’t where I want it to be. I am sure I notice more things than you will, at least initially. You can just use tone mapped HDR to SDR/BT2020 from MadVR which I hear is awesome. What I was trying to do was get great images without the need for MadVR or a Lumagen, but you should be already set.

hi dave

do you think the lk990 can be as good as the lk970 ? can we arrive at the same result after you ?
al9000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #934 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 12:14 PM
Senior Member
 
silver700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Hey Guys, trying to go through all the post in the 2 BenQ LK9** threads to see if anyone has posted if the LK990 is worth the upgrade over the LK970, especially given that you can get an LK970 refurb for almost half of the cost of a new LK990. Anyone have anything thoughts on if the LK990 is that much better?
silver700 is offline  
post #935 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 12:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,409
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11721 Post(s)
Liked: 9257
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You can use either anamorphic lens to accomplish what you want. The ISCO III is a horizontal expansion lens allowing you to have the throw closer. The Paladins are vertical compression lenses and therefore require a longer throw, equivalent to the width of your screen as if it were 16:9.

The LKs have the needed aspect ratio modes to support an anamorphic lens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveFred View Post
Thanks for the info


Also did you sell your 970 set up yet?

Steve
The vertical compression lens require (DCR) 1.4 times the width of the scope image for minimum throw and the regular Paladin requires 1.6 times the scope width of your screen for throw.
Dave Harper and Reddig like this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #936 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 02:50 PM
Senior Member
 
SaulP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The vertical compression lens require (DCR) 1.4 times the width of the scope image for minimum throw and the regular Paladin requires 1.6 times the scope width of your screen for throw.
For the sake of clarity, the regular Paladin is a also vertical compression lens that is designed to work with e.g. BenQ’s “anamorphic 2.4” vertical compression mode.
SaulP is online now  
post #937 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 03:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
SteveFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vernon, WI(near Milwaukee)
Posts: 763
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
This is probably the wrong place for this question, but is there a reason I shouldn't use my UH480 A-Lens with this projector? I see people moving from the UH480 to the Paladin. I'm sure it's a much nicer piece of glass, but I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

EDIT: Found it buried in a note on the Panamorph website. Apparently the older lenses aren't sharp enough. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side.

I guess the next logical question is, if you're using a lens to gain brightness on a 2.4 image, then don't you lose brightness if you are leaving the lens in place for 16:9 content?

Well I have been using a UH480 with my RS600 for 3 years and my 4K blu rays look extremely detailed. Maybe the new lens are even more detailed. You are right, I would also like to see a side by side comparison

New Theater pics
Theater Thread
BENQ LK970, 180"(195.4" Diagonal) Wide curved Seymour 2.37:1 XD W/UH480 lens/Marantz 8802A/Outlaw Amps 7900/5000, 7.2.4 set up / 8 - MT110SR's / Dual T-18's/HTPC/MadVR
SteveFred is online now  
post #938 of 948 Old 04-15-2019, 07:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,175
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveFred View Post
Well I have been using a UH480 with my RS600 for 3 years and my 4K blu rays look extremely detailed. Maybe the new lens are even more detailed. You are right, I would also like to see a side by side comparison
Yeah. I’m skeptical. But then again I’m more of a, “how does it look at 8 ft” vs someone that looks at it from 8 inches. So I’m not as discerning as a lot of folks here.
SteveFred and Maestrosc like this.
J_P_A is offline  
post #939 of 948 Old 04-16-2019, 04:43 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1721
BenQ LK990

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver700 View Post
Hey Guys, trying to go through all the post in the 2 BenQ LK9** threads to see if anyone has posted if the LK990 is worth the upgrade over the LK970, especially given that you can get an LK970 refurb for almost half of the cost of a new LK990. Anyone have anything thoughts on if the LK990 is that much better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by al9000 View Post
hi dave



do you think the lk990 can be as good as the lk970 ? can we arrive at the same result after you ?

The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.
al9000 likes this.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #940 of 948 Old 04-16-2019, 06:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6784 Post(s)
Liked: 6411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.
^ I Forwarded these thoughts to BenQ. Sounds like a couple of these quirks really need attention.
Steve Siener likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #941 of 948 Old 04-16-2019, 11:04 PM
Senior Member
 
silver700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.

Well that sucks. Anything that a Lumagen Radiance Pro could help or would that be counter productive and cost prohibitive?
silver700 is offline  
post #942 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 01:35 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver700 View Post
Well that sucks. Anything that a Lumagen Radiance Pro could help or would that be counter productive and cost prohibitive?

Yes of course it should help, but it’ll be cost prohibitive as you say, for some.
Archibald1 likes this.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #943 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 04:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
coolgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Here here.

True Dynamic tone mapping has changed everything for the better. Those who have seen it and use it will never say you NEED 50-60fl that's total BS.

If you use static curves, then yes, maybe you need closer to 60fl to really make it work. Because static curves are archaic, They are only ever set for the very brightest pixel in the film in advance. Which is fleeting, it could be 3 pixels inside a single light bulb in only one scene in the movie for a few seconds and then its over. We know the true representation is an order of magnitude lower, we even use Dynamic Clipping now to actually clip something like the top 0.01% of the brightest pixels in every frame, since they are pretty much always trash pixels, not necessary, and all they do is pull down the available contrast in the image if you just discard them. Bin those few pixels inside the very center of a light bulb and you end up with a far brighter, much more dynamic image.

No, you do NOT need 60fl to make HDR work, you need excellent dynamic tone mapping. And that's based on a good year of hardcore HDR development in the MadVR thread if anybody has been following, testing every variation possible on how to get the very best from HDR, and here we are, and its friggen glorious!

Right now, only MadVR and the very latest Lumagen update has it. I dont think Roxie even has a theatre for the past number of months, so if he has not seen it, he really should reserve judgement until he does as it is going to completely recalibrate his brain when his jaw hits the floor. Is it going to be improved with 60fl? Sure, but if you know anything about how it actually works, MOST of what you look at will be the same brightness from 0-30fl anyway, and you can even probably go 1/3rd of a film depending on what you watch before it gets any brighter.
How does dynamic tone mapping works if the source material doesn't have the dynamic tags? Does the MadVR look in real time at every frame and interpolate it even without the meta data?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post
I really don't care to read all this debate about how you don't need much brightness yada yada yada to get the best HDR. I swear it seems like every other post here, in a round about way, is intentionally trying to discourage potential buyers of the LK970/990. You know good and well that the main selling point of this projector IS for it's HIGH brightness among other things. And I'm so sick of seeing JVC this, JVC that, JVC model this, please take it somewhere else.


Have a lovely day
More like discourage anyone from buying anything NOT jvc!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
It is 100%

But, I dont know how actually close this is to production, as AVS members seem to think.

But I dont see this thing releasing anytime soon, personally. Getting hardware built sourced produced etc etc... not as straightforward as writing code.

Also price, if it is anything like the Lumagem Radiance Pro... you are paying 3-5x the cost of a HTPC just for it to be more user friendly.

But I am definitely keeping an eye out, worse comes to worse a HTPC would make a great gaming PC if the MadVR Envy does release anytime soon.
Yeah, I am thinking along the same line. Getting hardware manufactured is not easy. You will need quite a bit of investment. You'll need the licenses for everything.... etc.. So, not holding my breath. On the other hand, HTPC isn't an option as well as it's not easy to use. I like plug and play. Perhaps MadVR can find a Media Player company to bring it to market, for example, Zidoo,...
coolgeek is offline  
post #944 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 05:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6784 Post(s)
Liked: 6411
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
How does dynamic tone mapping works if the source material doesn't have the dynamic tags? Does the MadVR look in real time at every frame and interpolate it even without the meta data?







More like discourage anyone from buying anything NOT jvc!







Yeah, I am thinking along the same line. Getting hardware manufactured is not easy. You will need quite a bit of investment. You'll need the licenses for everything.... etc.. So, not holding my breath. On the other hand, HTPC isn't an option as well as it's not easy to use. I like plug and play. Perhaps MadVR can find a Media Player company to bring it to market, for example, Zidoo,...
Yes exactly it measures the frames in real time. The metadata is actually almost always wrong anyway.
Craig Peer and al9000 like this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #945 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 08:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
coolgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yes exactly it measures the frames in real time. The metadata is actually almost always wrong anyway.
Wow! That's awesome! So, this only happens with Lumagen Pro and MadVR at this moment?
coolgeek is offline  
post #946 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 08:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
SteveFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vernon, WI(near Milwaukee)
Posts: 763
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Yes of course it should help, but it’ll be cost prohibitive as you say, for some.
How easy/hard is the Lumagen Pro to work with. From a scale of 1(easy) to 10 (hard, must have advanced knowledge)?
J_P_A likes this.

New Theater pics
Theater Thread
BENQ LK970, 180"(195.4" Diagonal) Wide curved Seymour 2.37:1 XD W/UH480 lens/Marantz 8802A/Outlaw Amps 7900/5000, 7.2.4 set up / 8 - MT110SR's / Dual T-18's/HTPC/MadVR
SteveFred is online now  
post #947 of 948 Old 04-17-2019, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,175
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveFred View Post
How easy/hard is the Lumagen Pro to work with. From a scale of 1(easy) to 10 (hard, must have advanced knowledge)?
While we're rating, can we rate MadVR on the same scale as a comparison?

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!
The Plains Theater Has Begun
Pro Designed Room - Measurements Before/During/After Treatments.
J_P_A is offline  
post #948 of 948 Old 04-20-2019, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
 
SaulP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I’m betting that they designed and approved it based on the HT chassis and just “pencil whipped” the compatibility for the LKs because it uses the same exterior chassis, not taking into account the larger, more protruding lens on them.
I just wanted to let everybody know that Panamorph overnighted me A new plate. (Thanks). Sure enough, the one that the seller sent originally was not correct. The one I received today is a little different; it ends up shifting everything forward about a half an inch. I mounted the new plate lens to confirm that I now have room to make adjustments and then slide it back. I’m gonna wait to remount the lens permanently until Next weekend when I have more time to fiddle with everything.

Tonight I watched Crazy Rich Asians (UHD/HDR) without the lens, and it looked pretty fantastic. Again, I’m not sure I understand why some folks were saying about the image looking “over-processed”. It is certainly sharp but it looks very smooth.

Going forward, I’m going to posts my observations on the owners thread.
SaulP is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off