BenQ LK990 - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 12:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kawiguy998 View Post
Hi SaulP,



I’m eager to hear what feedback you get from Panamorph as I plan to order this duo for my screen. Do you believe the issue was mount related only? My dealer had Panamorph on the phone last week to approve our set-up and no mention was made of a possible issue.
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
You may be right about the Paladin. But, the Panamorph website specifically lists the LK990 (and the 970) as compatible with that lens. I’m sure they’ll make it right.



https://www.panamorph.com/other-proj...ibility-guide/

I’m betting that they designed and approved it based on the HT chassis and just “pencil whipped” the compatibility for the LKs because it uses the same exterior chassis, not taking into account the larger, more protruding lens on them.
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post #932 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 07:52 AM
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This is probably the wrong place for this question, but is there a reason I shouldn't use my UH480 A-Lens with this projector? I see people moving from the UH480 to the Paladin. I'm sure it's a much nicer piece of glass, but I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

EDIT: Found it buried in a note on the Panamorph website. Apparently the older lenses aren't sharp enough. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side.

I guess the next logical question is, if you're using a lens to gain brightness on a 2.4 image, then don't you lose brightness if you are leaving the lens in place for 16:9 content?

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post #933 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think you’ll be fine. The image was pretty awesome with minor tweaking. It just isn’t where I want it to be. I am sure I notice more things than you will, at least initially. You can just use tone mapped HDR to SDR/BT2020 from MadVR which I hear is awesome. What I was trying to do was get great images without the need for MadVR or a Lumagen, but you should be already set.

hi dave

do you think the lk990 can be as good as the lk970 ? can we arrive at the same result after you ?
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post #934 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 12:14 PM
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Hey Guys, trying to go through all the post in the 2 BenQ LK9** threads to see if anyone has posted if the LK990 is worth the upgrade over the LK970, especially given that you can get an LK970 refurb for almost half of the cost of a new LK990. Anyone have anything thoughts on if the LK990 is that much better?
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post #935 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You can use either anamorphic lens to accomplish what you want. The ISCO III is a horizontal expansion lens allowing you to have the throw closer. The Paladins are vertical compression lenses and therefore require a longer throw, equivalent to the width of your screen as if it were 16:9.

The LKs have the needed aspect ratio modes to support an anamorphic lens.
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Thanks for the info


Also did you sell your 970 set up yet?

Steve
The vertical compression lens require (DCR) 1.4 times the width of the scope image for minimum throw and the regular Paladin requires 1.6 times the scope width of your screen for throw.
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post #936 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 02:50 PM
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The vertical compression lens require (DCR) 1.4 times the width of the scope image for minimum throw and the regular Paladin requires 1.6 times the scope width of your screen for throw.
For the sake of clarity, the regular Paladin is a also vertical compression lens that is designed to work with e.g. BenQ’s “anamorphic 2.4” vertical compression mode.
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post #937 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
This is probably the wrong place for this question, but is there a reason I shouldn't use my UH480 A-Lens with this projector? I see people moving from the UH480 to the Paladin. I'm sure it's a much nicer piece of glass, but I'm not sure what the tradeoff is.

EDIT: Found it buried in a note on the Panamorph website. Apparently the older lenses aren't sharp enough. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side.

I guess the next logical question is, if you're using a lens to gain brightness on a 2.4 image, then don't you lose brightness if you are leaving the lens in place for 16:9 content?

Well I have been using a UH480 with my RS600 for 3 years and my 4K blu rays look extremely detailed. Maybe the new lens are even more detailed. You are right, I would also like to see a side by side comparison

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post #938 of 1021 Old 04-15-2019, 07:08 PM
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Well I have been using a UH480 with my RS600 for 3 years and my 4K blu rays look extremely detailed. Maybe the new lens are even more detailed. You are right, I would also like to see a side by side comparison
Yeah. I’m skeptical. But then again I’m more of a, “how does it look at 8 ft” vs someone that looks at it from 8 inches. So I’m not as discerning as a lot of folks here.
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post #939 of 1021 Old 04-16-2019, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by silver700 View Post
Hey Guys, trying to go through all the post in the 2 BenQ LK9** threads to see if anyone has posted if the LK990 is worth the upgrade over the LK970, especially given that you can get an LK970 refurb for almost half of the cost of a new LK990. Anyone have anything thoughts on if the LK990 is that much better?
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Originally Posted by al9000 View Post
hi dave



do you think the lk990 can be as good as the lk970 ? can we arrive at the same result after you ?

The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.
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post #940 of 1021 Old 04-16-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.
^ I Forwarded these thoughts to BenQ. Sounds like a couple of these quirks really need attention.
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post #941 of 1021 Old 04-16-2019, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
The jury is really still out on the LK990 for me. There is so much you can’t do with sending HDR to this and also so much you can’t do if you turn off Brilliant Color! It’s very frustrating and infuriating actually. This thing seriously needs a FW update to allow ALL settings available to you no matter what mode you’re in or have set!

I get to a point in playing with settings where I’m like “that looks really good!”, then I let I play more or put something else in with differing scene characteristics and and I see something amiss but a lot of times I can’t fix it due to settings limitations!

I see scenes that make me love it and I can clearly see the better blacks with SmartEco, but then SmartEco also introduces things I don’t like because in some mid APL scenes it seems to bring up the black floor and give some haze I never saw on the LK970. (Could this be what Dylan was talking about?).

I haven’t even settled on a good mode to use for HDR yet, sheesh! Tone mapping HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 didn’t work well either as you lose BT2020 color gamut and no way to select it manually. Plus it really seems to raise the black floor and compress the whole Dynamic Range compared to sending HDR and using HDR mode. I haven’t messed with the Radiance Pro yet for it, so I’m sure that’ll fare better than from the UB820 alone, but I wanted to perfect a budget solution first before introducing a product that almost costs as much as the projector itself!

My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.

Well that sucks. Anything that a Lumagen Radiance Pro could help or would that be counter productive and cost prohibitive?
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post #942 of 1021 Old 04-17-2019, 01:35 AM
 
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Well that sucks. Anything that a Lumagen Radiance Pro could help or would that be counter productive and cost prohibitive?

Yes of course it should help, but it’ll be cost prohibitive as you say, for some.
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post #943 of 1021 Old 04-17-2019, 04:47 AM
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Here here.

True Dynamic tone mapping has changed everything for the better. Those who have seen it and use it will never say you NEED 50-60fl that's total BS.

If you use static curves, then yes, maybe you need closer to 60fl to really make it work. Because static curves are archaic, They are only ever set for the very brightest pixel in the film in advance. Which is fleeting, it could be 3 pixels inside a single light bulb in only one scene in the movie for a few seconds and then its over. We know the true representation is an order of magnitude lower, we even use Dynamic Clipping now to actually clip something like the top 0.01% of the brightest pixels in every frame, since they are pretty much always trash pixels, not necessary, and all they do is pull down the available contrast in the image if you just discard them. Bin those few pixels inside the very center of a light bulb and you end up with a far brighter, much more dynamic image.

No, you do NOT need 60fl to make HDR work, you need excellent dynamic tone mapping. And that's based on a good year of hardcore HDR development in the MadVR thread if anybody has been following, testing every variation possible on how to get the very best from HDR, and here we are, and its friggen glorious!

Right now, only MadVR and the very latest Lumagen update has it. I dont think Roxie even has a theatre for the past number of months, so if he has not seen it, he really should reserve judgement until he does as it is going to completely recalibrate his brain when his jaw hits the floor. Is it going to be improved with 60fl? Sure, but if you know anything about how it actually works, MOST of what you look at will be the same brightness from 0-30fl anyway, and you can even probably go 1/3rd of a film depending on what you watch before it gets any brighter.
How does dynamic tone mapping works if the source material doesn't have the dynamic tags? Does the MadVR look in real time at every frame and interpolate it even without the meta data?

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Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post
I really don't care to read all this debate about how you don't need much brightness yada yada yada to get the best HDR. I swear it seems like every other post here, in a round about way, is intentionally trying to discourage potential buyers of the LK970/990. You know good and well that the main selling point of this projector IS for it's HIGH brightness among other things. And I'm so sick of seeing JVC this, JVC that, JVC model this, please take it somewhere else.


Have a lovely day
More like discourage anyone from buying anything NOT jvc!

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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
It is 100%

But, I dont know how actually close this is to production, as AVS members seem to think.

But I dont see this thing releasing anytime soon, personally. Getting hardware built sourced produced etc etc... not as straightforward as writing code.

Also price, if it is anything like the Lumagem Radiance Pro... you are paying 3-5x the cost of a HTPC just for it to be more user friendly.

But I am definitely keeping an eye out, worse comes to worse a HTPC would make a great gaming PC if the MadVR Envy does release anytime soon.
Yeah, I am thinking along the same line. Getting hardware manufactured is not easy. You will need quite a bit of investment. You'll need the licenses for everything.... etc.. So, not holding my breath. On the other hand, HTPC isn't an option as well as it's not easy to use. I like plug and play. Perhaps MadVR can find a Media Player company to bring it to market, for example, Zidoo,...
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post #944 of 1021 Old 04-17-2019, 05:34 AM
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How does dynamic tone mapping works if the source material doesn't have the dynamic tags? Does the MadVR look in real time at every frame and interpolate it even without the meta data?







More like discourage anyone from buying anything NOT jvc!







Yeah, I am thinking along the same line. Getting hardware manufactured is not easy. You will need quite a bit of investment. You'll need the licenses for everything.... etc.. So, not holding my breath. On the other hand, HTPC isn't an option as well as it's not easy to use. I like plug and play. Perhaps MadVR can find a Media Player company to bring it to market, for example, Zidoo,...
Yes exactly it measures the frames in real time. The metadata is actually almost always wrong anyway.
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Yes exactly it measures the frames in real time. The metadata is actually almost always wrong anyway.
Wow! That's awesome! So, this only happens with Lumagen Pro and MadVR at this moment?
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Yes of course it should help, but it’ll be cost prohibitive as you say, for some.
How easy/hard is the Lumagen Pro to work with. From a scale of 1(easy) to 10 (hard, must have advanced knowledge)?
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post #947 of 1021 Old 04-17-2019, 08:55 AM
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How easy/hard is the Lumagen Pro to work with. From a scale of 1(easy) to 10 (hard, must have advanced knowledge)?
While we're rating, can we rate MadVR on the same scale as a comparison?

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post #948 of 1021 Old 04-20-2019, 09:24 PM
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I’m betting that they designed and approved it based on the HT chassis and just “pencil whipped” the compatibility for the LKs because it uses the same exterior chassis, not taking into account the larger, more protruding lens on them.
I just wanted to let everybody know that Panamorph overnighted me A new plate. (Thanks). Sure enough, the one that the seller sent originally was not correct. The one I received today is a little different; it ends up shifting everything forward about a half an inch. I mounted the new plate lens to confirm that I now have room to make adjustments and then slide it back. I’m gonna wait to remount the lens permanently until Next weekend when I have more time to fiddle with everything.

Tonight I watched Crazy Rich Asians (UHD/HDR) without the lens, and it looked pretty fantastic. Again, I’m not sure I understand why some folks were saying about the image looking “over-processed”. It is certainly sharp but it looks very smooth.

Going forward, I’m going to posts my observations on the owners thread.
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post #949 of 1021 Old 07-11-2019, 01:04 PM
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My 3D glasses came today so maybe I’ll take a break and try some of that tonight.
Any feedback on the 3D performance? Thanks.
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Any feedback on the 3D performance? Thanks.
They have banned Dave Harper. You will need to contact him in another way.
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They have banned Dave Harper. You will need to contact him in another way.
Really? At least he was usually on topic and had the relevant projectors in hand. I guess now we can get back to discussing JVC projectors in the BenQ threads.
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They have banned Dave Harper. You will need to contact him in another way.

Wow... This is sad news to me.


It was because of David, three people I know tried the BenQ's and two ended up keeping the LK970.


I'm not sure what the reasoning was behind the decision, but if you didn't like his enthusiasm for DLP you could have just personally muted him. I don't feel from the post I saw that he needed to be banned.

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post #953 of 1021 Old 07-12-2019, 07:18 AM
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They have banned Dave Harper. You will need to contact him in another way.
Thanks for the info. 3D performance is not at the top of the list for most people so it is unfortunate someone who has seen it on this projector can no longer comment.
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post #954 of 1021 Old 07-12-2019, 07:56 AM
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Any feedback on the 3D performance? Thanks.
Hi, there was feedback below from 2 members (Javs/Aztar) on the 3D performance. 1 for the LK990, the other for the HT9060, both sharing the same XPR DMD. Both members reported similar findings - image appeared soft vs. other projectors and also fatigue during 3D viewing when it wasn't an issue with other 3D projectors.

XPR is off during 3D mode leaving the panels in the native 2716 x 1528 mode so it sounds like they are having scaling issues with 3D 1080P content.

I was interested in this projector mainly for the potentially bright 3D and this feedback helps a lot. I ended up picking up a Viewsonic laser projector rated at same 5500 lumens but it's 1080P and the 3D is very bright and razor sharp.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58124516

So...yes, the 3D on the 9060 was a big disappointment. Again, it was soft and caused me fatigue, but worst of all was that the 3D motion was very difficult for me to tolerate altogether. In my opinion, it's among the worst 3D I've ever seen period and nowhere near the 3D I remember seeing with something like the W7000.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57931234

I dont know what the other BenQ's are like, but 3D on this projector is really soft. Depth and Crosstalk is perfect. Even contrast looks pretty OK through the glasses. But the image is also quite unsteady and unmistakably soft. I wonder if its the non native 1080p chips ?
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post #955 of 1021 Old 07-13-2019, 01:07 PM
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While we're rating, can we rate MadVR on the same scale as a comparison?
Yes, would love to know how hard 1-10 MadVR or Lumagen Pro is. I'm upgrading my 970 to the 990. I really need the lumens for daytime viewing.

The problem with MadVR is that I need a dedicated PC for it, and currently the PC is used by my kids sometimes for gaming. Also, I have control4, is there an easy way to control everything thru a remote control? Is it easy? or is it hours of tweaking?

Is it possible to run MadVR in the background somehow? currently using Roku Ultra as well as AppleTV 4k. Most of the viewing is netflix and most 4k movies are thru itunes or Vudu. Trying to figure out the easiest system for the family to use to watch movies with the best picture. I also have a plex server, but was watching the movies thru roku/appletv.

Seems like the lumagen pro would be the easiest plug and play?or hopefully that the eventual MADVR envy?
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post #956 of 1021 Old 07-13-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
Yes, would love to know how hard 1-10 MadVR or Lumagen Pro is. I'm upgrading my 970 to the 990. I really need the lumens for daytime viewing.

The problem with MadVR is that I need a dedicated PC for it, and currently the PC is used by my kids sometimes for gaming. Also, I have control4, is there an easy way to control everything thru a remote control? Is it easy? or is it hours of tweaking?

Is it possible to run MadVR in the background somehow? currently using Roku Ultra as well as AppleTV 4k. Most of the viewing is netflix and most 4k movies are thru itunes or Vudu. Trying to figure out the easiest system for the family to use to watch movies with the best picture. I also have a plex server, but was watching the movies thru roku/appletv.

Seems like the lumagen pro would be the easiest plug and play?or hopefully that the eventual MADVR envy?
You need to either get the Lumagen or wait for the Envy.
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post #957 of 1021 Old 07-14-2019, 03:15 AM
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You need to either get the Lumagen or wait for the Envy.
Lumagen 4

Radiance Pro 4240? Are they ever updating it? or is it same hardware, just updating software. Is it truly plug and play? Once setup, it'll make every source look better?

Right now, I watch almost everything on appletv 4k or roku 4k. Netflix, Hulu, Plex movies (1080p mostly) and 4k streamed movies. I will eventually I'm sure start watching 4k bluray discs on my oppo. (should I move to the panasonic?)

What's the 4240 go for? 4-5K? You think the Envy will be better? easier to use, less expensive?
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post #958 of 1021 Old 07-20-2019, 02:48 AM
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Lumagen 4

Radiance Pro 4240? Are they ever updating it? or is it same hardware, just updating software. Is it truly plug and play? Once setup, it'll make every source look better?

Right now, I watch almost everything on appletv 4k or roku 4k. Netflix, Hulu, Plex movies (1080p mostly) and 4k streamed movies. I will eventually I'm sure start watching 4k bluray discs on my oppo. (should I move to the panasonic?)

What's the 4240 go for? 4-5K? You think the Envy will be better? easier to use, less expensive?
There are very few folk I imagine who have any real idea about the Envy and they won't be talking any time very soon. It looks like there might be more news on Envy at US CEDIA as madvrlabs has booked a booth. Best place to hang out for info is the anticipation thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...on-thread.html

Lumagen setup is fairly easy if you are just using it for HDR tone mapping; things get a little more effort (and required 3rd party software and tools) if you are doing 3DLUT setup.
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post #959 of 1021 Old 07-20-2019, 04:26 AM
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Really? At least he was usually on topic and had the relevant projectors in hand. I guess now we can get back to discussing JVC projectors in the BenQ threads.
You're the only one that brought up JVC projectors here, just now in a very long time. Perhaps you should keep your comments more on topic. Thanks.

JVC Control - my software for controlling JVC projector via IP control.
Smart Masking - See my automatic smart screen masking system.
JVC IR Codes - free online pronto code converter for JVC IR codes.
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post #960 of 1021 Old 07-20-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
Lumagen 4

Radiance Pro 4240? Are they ever updating it? or is it same hardware, just updating software. Is it truly plug and play? Once setup, it'll make every source look better?

Right now, I watch almost everything on appletv 4k or roku 4k. Netflix, Hulu, Plex movies (1080p mostly) and 4k streamed movies. I will eventually I'm sure start watching 4k bluray discs on my oppo. (should I move to the panasonic?)

What's the 4240 go for? 4-5K? You think the Envy will be better? easier to use, less expensive?
My guess is: yes, yes and no. Since MadVR is talking about doing something that has never been done before.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 07-20-2019 at 06:22 AM.
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