BenQ LK990 Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You could hit up Mike Lang I guess, I was referring to Mike Garrett when I said Mike wasn't a moderator though, since the only Mike in the thread was him at the time and you seemed to be asking him directly.

rboster is another, DrDon is another.

Like I said though, if Dave gets to come back, then why not Seegs108 or Andreas21... I dont see them doing anything at all, as its unfair to reinstate one person and not others. Never hurts to try I suppose.
I was not asking about Mike G. That was CatDaddy. But thanks for the names.

I have no idea who Seegs108 or Andreas21 are. Should I? Not to sound overly selfish, but I own an LK990 and Dave is a fellow owner enthusiastic about helping me and other owners get the most out of their projectors unlike — others who are enthusiastic about helping us understand why we should be unhappy with them. That’s why I would like to see him reinstated. If these two people you mention help others then I hope they come back too.

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post #722 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
I was not asking about Mike G. That was CatDaddy. But thanks for the names.

I have no idea who Seegs108 or Andreas21 are. Should I? Not to sound overly selfish, but I own an LK990 and Mike is a fellow owner enthusiastic about helping me and other owners get the most out of their projectors unlike — others who are enthusiastic about helping us understand why we should be unhappy with them. That’s why I would like to see him reinstated. If these two people you mention help others then I hope they come back too.

All these names are confusing me too? "Who's on first?"

Saul, all joking aside. Mike is an enthusiast but he's not a fellow owner. I don't even think he's seen this projector. I believe you meant to say "Dave."
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post #723 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
unlike — others who are enthusiastic about helping us understand why we should be unhappy with them. That’s why I would like to see him reinstated. If these two people you mention help others then I hope they come back too.

And I don't think they're just talking to us when they point out the unhappy parts.
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post #724 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 09:24 PM
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And I don't think they're just talking to us when they point out the unhappy parts.
You think?
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post #725 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 09:31 PM
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All these names are confusing me too? "Who's on first?"

Saul, all joking aside. Mike is an enthusiast but he's not a fellow owner. I don't even think he's seen this projector. I believe you meant to say "Dave."
Indeed, i did mean Dave H. You are correct that when last I asked, Mike confirmed that he’d never seen the LK. But, you need to remember that he’s seen more projectors in the last year than I’ve seen in 10, and he’s trained to see contrast, and he’s seen Kris’s review so, actually, he knows more about my projector in my room with my screen and my Paladin and my settings than I do. It’s eerie.
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post #726 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
Indeed, i did mean Dave H. You are correct that when last I asked, Mike confirmed that he’d never seen the LK. But, you need to remember that he’s seen more projectors in the last year than I’ve seen in 10, and he’s trained to see contrast, and he’s seen Kris’s review so, actually, he knows more about my projector in my room with my screen and my Paladin and my settings than I do. It’s eerie.
I have never once talked about your projector in your room. I don't know a thing about your room and don't really care what your room is like. I just talk about comparing image quality between projectors when looking at them in a good room.
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post #727 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
All these names are confusing me too? "Who's on first?"

Saul, all joking aside. Mike is an enthusiast but he's not a fellow owner. I don't even think he's seen this projector. I believe you meant to say "Dave."
I am just an enthusiast?
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post #728 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
It will change them of course, cms/greyscale etc.. depends on the environement, the base settings are mainly cranking the contrast/color almost to max and use 2.8gamma with brightness at around 43, now not a lot of owners would try those extreem values when u see the native HDR passthrough signal is washed out, since the 970 doesnt have native hdr , those settings act as an HDR mode if u want just to get u started with good image with hdr, of course when u calibrate further it ll change some values but mostly in cms/greyscale, its not really any magic settings, but just a baseline to do the tone mapping in the projector.
If you crank contrast, crank color and jack up the gamma, then calibrate, you would end up removing all of that. If you didn't, then it would not be calibrated. It is either D65 calibrated or it is not. This is why I do not understand the comment jack the settings up and then calibrate? I understand, calibrate and then adjust (jack up the settings) to taste.

Added
As One person I talked to put it:
"If you calibrate his CMS settings, they wont be his settings anymore, and the if you apply his colour jacking settings you are by default not calibrated anymore since luminance will likely jump through the roof and clip colours…"
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post #729 of 805 Old 06-13-2019, 10:35 PM
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From over here it looked like he knew his settings would have thrown up hugely errant measurements (in the traditional sense) and would have likely been derided (rightly or wrongly), but to the eye they (apparently) looked more than acceptable.
That is how I read it anyway.

He could have been more willing to give out his settings and provide more data though I think. Demos would have put it to bed, that even though using normal methods the image would be 'way off', to the unaided eye it would have been really good.

I wish I could have seen it first hand.
I dunno. If there was a projector with 1000:1 contrast and pretty much no dimming system, and I claimed I had some magic settings that made the blacks look black, in spite of all possibilities and backing by science, I'd paste the settings to prove everyone wrong. Unless there were no such settings then I'd probably just wave my arms for several weeks and pretend to be too busy to post them.
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post #730 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
It will change them of course, cms/greyscale etc.. depends on the environement, the base settings are mainly cranking the contrast/color almost to max and use 2.8gamma with brightness at around 43, now not a lot of owners would try those extreem values when u see the native HDR passthrough signal is washed out, since the 970 doesnt have native hdr , those settings act as an HDR mode if u want just to get u started with good image with hdr, of course when u calibrate further it ll change some values but mostly in cms/greyscale, its not really any magic settings, but just a baseline to do the tone mapping in the projector.
If you crank contrast, crank color and jack up the gamma, then calibrate, you would end up removing all of that. If you didn't, then it would not be calibrated. It is either D65 calibrated or it is not. This is why I do not understand the comment jack the settings up and then calibrate? I understand, calibrate and then adjust (jack up the settings) to taste.

Added
As One person I talked to put it:
"If you calibrate his CMS settings, they wont be his settings anymore, and the if you apply his colour jacking settings you are by default not calibrated anymore since luminance will likely jump through the roof and clip colours…"
Mike we r calibrating HDR in an sdr mode in the projector, no i do not need to change those when calibrating, when using HDR patterns and outputing HDR passthrough in madvr to calibrate, brightness has to be 43, contrast 89 to not clip anything under 1000nits and gamma 2.8 gives a pretty good hdr gamma curve when measuring it in calman.
So what is left is changing cms/color and RGB gains/offset to get d65 and those will change yes.
That is the point of it.
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post #731 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 03:24 AM
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I dunno. If there was a projector with 1000:1 contrast and pretty much no dimming system, and I claimed I had some magic settings that made the blacks look black, in spite of all possibilities and backing by science, I'd paste the settings to prove everyone wrong. Unless there were no such settings then I'd probably just wave my arms for several weeks and pretend to be too busy to post them.
I believe it was pointed out he did post up settings, and because those settings were not 'the norm' or 'traditional' way of coaxing a decent image out of a display, he was vilified anyway.

What difference does the 'backing by science' actually make, if the end result is extremely pleasing to the eye, even if the data and parameters are way off the standard way of doing something? Doesn't matter in my book.

If a display is not capable of being dialled in in the usual manner but using some esoteric and not 'normal' tweaks the image can be made to look superb, then what does it matter?
The tech heads could have all just agreed the units don't 'conform' and move on, whilst everyone else can just watch a great image.

Doesn't matter how you get there if the image you *see* is the most important thing, NOT that it fits in with standard data sets.

I agree the way he argued back was a little 'over defensive' mind you and that kind of thing will never help one's cause, no matter how unaccommodating the opposition is.
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post #732 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I believe it was pointed out he did post up settings, and because those settings were not 'the norm' or 'traditional' way of coaxing a decent image out of a display, he was vilified anyway.

What difference does the 'backing by science' actually make, if the end result is extremely pleasing to the eye, even if the data and parameters are way off the standard way of doing something? Doesn't matter in my book.

If a display is not capable of being dialled in in the usual manner but using some esoteric and not 'normal' tweaks the image can be made to look superb, then what does it matter?
The tech heads could have all just agreed the units don't 'conform' and move on, whilst everyone else can just watch a great image.

Doesn't matter how you get there if the image you *see* is the most important thing, NOT that it fits in with standard data sets.

I agree the way he argued back was a little 'over defensive' mind you and that kind of thing will never help one's cause, no matter how unaccommodating the opposition is.
What might seem pleasing to the eye at first may not be for the long run. This is why backed by science is important. If I compare two images, one brighter than the other, almost everyone thinks the brighter one is better - at first. If I compare two speaker setups, one slightly louder than the other, the louder one is always thought of as better. These are the types of fake positives you might get going with "what looks best to me". Science is important.

Without science you give birth to things like a thousand dollar cable industry that is solely based on "let your ears tell you whats better" right? There are tons of people convinced that their $500 ethernet cable that they swapped on their router made their music sound better.

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post #733 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 03:57 AM
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What might seem pleasing to the eye at first may not be for the long run.
That is up to the individual to decide. Backing it by science will not change what is being viewed. A great image with 'non standard' settings will still look good regardless of how often it can be shown the numbers are way off accepted standards.

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This is why backed by science is important. If I compare two images, one brighter than the other, almost everyone thinks the brighter one is better - at first.
At first? How do you know that as far as any one other than you is concerned? Simply, you do not. (Unless they tell you obviously).
You have no idea about any other persons tolerances and how long they may or may not find a bright image unacceptable or fatiguing. So that is merely subjective conjecture on your part.


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If I compare two speaker setups, one slightly louder than the other, the louder one is always thought of as better. These are the types of fake positives you might get going with "what looks best to me". Science is important.

Without science you give birth to things like a thousand dollar cable industry that is solely based on "let your ears tell you whats better" right? There are tons of people convinced that their $500 ethernet cable that they swapped on their router made their music sound better.
If those 'false positives' are preferred, then who are you or I to argue with someone's choice and satisfaction. Also, there IS an industry of silly expensive cables that are no better than much, much cheaper ones, (analogue cables aside, where a larger cable can and does have benefits) but there will always be those who will dive down that road as it fits their needs/sensibilities regardless of how foolish it may in reality be. BUT that is their choice to make. If their ears tell them it is better (regardless of how illusory it is) then that is it as far as they are concerned. It may be down to the high price convincing them it is better, it may be the lovely gold anodised plugs, but either way, that is their choice to make. The numbers simply will not matter at that point. What price satisfaction?

Science is important, of course. But if everyone was convinced by it, there would no longer be religion.
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post #734 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:01 AM
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If those 'false positives' are preferred, then who are you or I to argue with someone's choice and satisfaction. Also, there IS an industry of silly expensive cables that are no better than much, much cheaper ones, (analogue cables aside, where a larger cable can and does have benefits) but there will always be those who will dive down that road as it fits their needs/sensibilities regardless of how foolish it may in reality be. BUT that is their choice to make. If their ears tell them it is better (regardless of how illusory it is) then that is it as far as they are concerned. It may be down to the high price convincing them it is better, it may be the lovely gold anodised plugs, but either way, that is their choice to make. The numbers simply will not matter at that point. What price satisfaction?

Science is important, of course. But if everyone was convinced by it, there would no longer be religion.
I was with you until, if people are hyping something and there is no true evidence that it works the way you say, then you are nothing but a shrill and harming the average consumer. Big reason there is a Federal Trade Commission. It's just that this industry is not regulated like a lot of others are and people can just say whatever. Now if people know the true science and see it and they prefer it than knock yourself out, that is your choice.

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post #735 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:04 AM
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That is up to the individual to decide. Backing it by science will not change what is being viewed. A great image with 'non standard' settings will still look good regardless of how often it can be shown the numbers are way off accepted standards.



At first? How do you know that as far as any one other than you is concerned? Simply, you do not. (Unless they tell you obviously).
You have no idea about any other persons tolerances and how long they may or may not find a bright image unacceptable or fatiguing. So that is merely subjective conjecture on your part.




If those 'false positives' are preferred, then who are you or I to argue with someone's choice and satisfaction. Also, there IS an industry of silly expensive cables that are no better than much, much cheaper ones, (analogue cables aside, where a larger cable can and does have benefits) but there will always be those who will dive down that road as it fits their needs/sensibilities regardless of how foolish it may in reality be. BUT that is their choice to make. If their ears tell them it is better (regardless of how illusory it is) then that is it as far as they are concerned. It may be down to the high price convincing them it is better, it may be the lovely gold anodised plugs, but either way, that is their choice to make. The numbers simply will not matter at that point. What price satisfaction?

Science is important, of course. But if everyone was convinced by it, there would no longer be religion.
Archibald. Again you’re pulling the clothes off the emperor! Just like a majority of consumers will say a louder speaker sounds better, so too will they say a brighter image looks better. But “better” is subjective and that subjectively-better-looking, brighter, image may very well perform poorer along another measurement, say contrast or color accuracy. Now, more “experienced”/“refined”/“snobby” (use whatever positive or negative adjective you like) may very well reach a different conclusion. They may very well pick the dimmer but more contrasty image. But, that doesn’t make them right and the others wrong. It’s their opinion and one worth considering but only an opinion.

That’s why I think people need to be careful in making broad, unqualified superiority claims on these fora. A brighter projector is not necessarily a better projector. It’s a brighter projector. A projector with better contrast is not necessarily a better projector. It’s a projector with better contrast.

As long as people continue to insist that their ultimate subjective opinion of image quality is correct they will continue to run into this logic traps and end up making speculative, strained arguments that e.g. while you may like your image better today, tomorrow you may grow tired of it. Of course it is every bit as likely that the opposite is true.

We joke about White Zinfandel (and I totally agree… Yuck.). But the Opinions of those who like it are just as valid as my opinions.
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post #736 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:13 AM
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I was with you until, if people are hyping something and there is no true evidence that it works the way you say, then you are nothing but a shrill and harming the average consumer. Big reason there is a Federal Trade Commission. It's just that this industry is not regulated like a lot of others are and people can just say whatever. Now if people know the true science and see it and they prefer it than knock yourself out, that is your choice.
I agree to a point but all consumer products can be returned if they don't work as expected for full refunds so the consumer is not really harmed. And more fool anyone who buys something of this sort of price that doesn't do a little digging or due diligence.
But yes, claims do need to be backed up by some form of evidence for it to gain acceptance irrespective of if everyone agrees as to how the result was obtained.

I think maybe Dave' s main undoing was possibly saying that his settings would be good for everyone to get the best out of the machine instead of saying that he has found settings that work very well for him but others results may vary.
Also, he did come across as somewhen evangelistic of the BenQ's which I found a mite odd if I am honest.

That is the main reason for standardised settings of course, (especially in reviews) in that all the attributes are set to the same basic level for comparisons.

I wish the industry was more regulated sometimes.

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post #737 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:16 AM
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Archibald. Again you’re pulling the clothes off the emperor! Just like a majority of consumers will say a louder speaker sounds better, so too will they say a brighter image looks better. But “better” is subjective and that subjectively-better-looking, brighter, image may very well perform poorer along another measurement, say contrast or color accuracy. Now, more “experienced”/“refined”/“snobby” (use whatever positive or negative adjective you like) may very well reach a different conclusion. They may very well pick the dimmer but more contrasty image. But, that doesn’t make them right and the others wrong. It’s their opinion and one worth considering but only an opinion.

That’s why I think people need to be careful in making broad, unqualified superiority claims on these fora. A brighter projector is not necessarily a better projector. It’s a brighter projector. A projector with better contrast is not necessarily a better projector. It’s a projector with better contrast.

As long as people continue to insist that their ultimate subjective opinion of image quality is correct they will continue to run into this logic traps and end up making speculative, strained arguments that e.g. while you may like your image better today, tomorrow you may grow tired of it. Of course it is every bit as likely that the opposite is true.

We joke about White Zinfandel (and I totally agree… Yuck.). But the Opinions of those who like it are just as valid as my opinions.
Well said sir. Totes agreeballs.

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The best evidence is eyewitness evidence.

Dave isn’t just waving his hands around and claiming these things. Many of us see it.
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post #739 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:47 AM
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is a fellow owner enthusiastic about helping me and other owners get the most out of their projectors unlike — others who are enthusiastic about helping us understand why we should be unhappy with them. That’s why I would like to see him reinstated. If these two people you mention help others then I hope they come back too.
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Mike is an enthusiast but he's not a fellow owner. I don't even think he's seen this projector. I believe you meant to say "Dave."
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I am just an enthusiast?
I just realized SaulP was referencing "reinstatement" in his post.

Anyway, no. In addition to be being an enthusiast, I think you're also someone with a lot of experience with projectors and A/V in general, owned different types, and appear to be accomplished in your field.
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post #740 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 06:51 AM
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The best evidence is eyewitness evidence.

Dave isn’t just waving his hands around and claiming these things. Many of us see it.
Recall that the LK990 has Smarteco dimming but the LK970 doesn't.
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post #741 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I also don't believe that was a part of why he was banned.

You know, Dave brought a lot of attention to these LK threads and I have yet to read here that an LK owner found the decision to purchase one as being a terrible decision. Perhaps Dave, in his passion, had a somewhat eccentric posting style. (I suppose, in some way, even now, he still brings excitement. )

But we all ought to keep in mind that there are different personalities and differing points of view. Sometimes Dave and I would disagree when discussing projector performance, but it was just a discussion on projector performance. So, if I sensed something was a "hot button" for him, I would just make my point in a separate post --no need to keep pushing that button with him.

I'm NOT going to go back and read all those posts where things kinda got heated between Dave and a few others, but I do recall it wasn't just one-sided, insinuations and such and I recall where even one of our friends/fellow members put up a Looney Tunes picture/emoji and then Dave "fired" back, and someone else used an adjective-pronoun that was later edited by one of our moderators. I'm not saying two wrongs make a right. I'm just saying I highly doubt that he was banned in some significant part because he led another to expect some calibration settings.
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Mike , he also clearly said in that post that those arent measured settings, and if u follow earlier posts in this thread, he said that he input those settings on a new unit at someone's else place without any measurement just by trusting his eyes and they looked good for him but they need further adjusting.

That is why he was saying every time that those arent finals whatsoever.

Now for him being busy and not sending final settings, that is not the first time, the guy is a busy person, i Pm'ed him many times when i first get my LK970 to help me with the settings and i posted in the thread also, he always replied that soon he ll send me updated ones, i waited days and weeks and no settings until i decided to use his initial settings from like 8 months ago and calibrate them myself and really the result was excellent , i dont think any projector tone mapping can come close to it. Now Madvr started the DTM and that is the absolute best solution there is and is the go to tone mapping i use now , but really its not as far way from dave's settings as u might think and that says a lot , the very very low APL actually looks better with dave's settings.

What i m trying to say is him not sending the settings its not running away, he is just busy.

I m one of the people that if it wasnt for dave i wouldve never bought the LK970, i trusted his opinion without even seeing one and i m glad i did.
I do think it is unfair to just ban him permanently, a week or two ban would be enough, he is a great addition to the forum and has helped many guys here. i do agree he takes it personal sometimes, but that is not enough to permanently ban him.
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
Yeah. I agree. There is something troubling when an owner of a projector who was happy to help other owners of the projector is banned from the owners’ forum for that projector (while other people who do not own the projector can interject their opinions about the projector on that owners’ forum).

So who are the moderators of this forum? Who decided on the ban?
When you have a guy who spends so much of his own time helping out others on these forums and because he 'argues' with others who are 'just as bad', and you choose to ban that one guy who is actually contributing, you're destroying your own forum...

Most threads are now basically pretty dead.. all you have are salesmen who just pour cold water on every other product that they don't sell every chance they get.. those get to stay of course...
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post #742 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SaulP View Post
Indeed, i did mean Dave H. You are correct that when last I asked, Mike confirmed that he’d never seen the LK. But, you need to remember that he’s seen more projectors in the last year than I’ve seen in 10, and he’s trained to see contrast, and he’s seen Kris’s review so, actually, he knows more about my projector in my room with my screen and my Paladin and my settings than I do. It’s eerie.
Yes, that happened to me as well.. people here seems to know better than me what i see in my own room...

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I believe it was pointed out he did post up settings, and because those settings were not 'the norm' or 'traditional' way of coaxing a decent image out of a display, he was vilified anyway.

What difference does the 'backing by science' actually make, if the end result is extremely pleasing to the eye, even if the data and parameters are way off the standard way of doing something? Doesn't matter in my book.

If a display is not capable of being dialled in in the usual manner but using some esoteric and not 'normal' tweaks the image can be made to look superb, then what does it matter?
The tech heads could have all just agreed the units don't 'conform' and move on, whilst everyone else can just watch a great image.

Doesn't matter how you get there if the image you *see* is the most important thing, NOT that it fits in with standard data sets.

I agree the way he argued back was a little 'over defensive' mind you and that kind of thing will never help one's cause, no matter how unaccommodating the opposition is.
People here throw out the word 'science' like they actually understand what it means.. in it's truest form, it means 'the study of'.. not 'comply with standards' which is often used here to mean science.. 'truth' constantly changes as we explore and find new things.. that's why standards continues to evolve...

Some of the 'so-called' expert calibrators here are just ego-maniac (not going to mention names).. they are not scientists.. they just follow a bunch of rules and does it to a tee.. and then they make fun of those that actually invents and do real science... they explore, they investigate, they come up with new stuff.. they jury rig, they continue to study... that's science..

Dave, by every real definition of the word, is doing science... and he gets vilified for it.. cause it's not 'standard'...
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post #743 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
When you have a guy who spends so much of his own time helping out others on these forums and because he 'argues' with others who are 'just as bad', and you choose to ban that one guy who is actually contributing, you're destroying your own forum...

Most threads are now basically pretty dead.. all you have are salesmen who just pour cold water on every other product that they don't sell every chance they get.. those get to stay of course...
Most dealers sell Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ and many more. Some buy through distribution and some are dealer direct.
As for threads being pretty dead, it is June. Every summer the projector threads die down. Usually the AVR and processor threads pick up and the room construction threads pick up, but this year the AVR/processor threads are slow, due to manufacturers waiting on HDMI 2.1 before they introduce new mid level and higher end units.
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post #744 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Most dealers sell Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ and many more. Some buy through distribution and some are dealer direct.
Talking about dealers who don't... and have different margins.. it's quite apparent to everyone to see here..
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Talking about dealers who don't... and have different margins.. it's quite apparent to everyone to see here..
Here in the US, if selling on margin, you would push Sony.
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post #746 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Most dealers sell Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ and many more. Some buy through distribution and some are dealer direct.
As for threads being pretty dead, it is June. Every summer the projector threads die down. Usually the AVR and processor threads pick up and the room construction threads pick up, but this year the AVR/processor threads are slow, due to manufacturers waiting on HDMI 2.1 before they introduce new mid level and higher end units.
Sorry, I haven't kept up with this, but when are the HDMI 2.1 AVR/processors projected to hit? I'm still running an Onkyo 885 which has to be over 10 years old now! I need to upgrade at some point to get Atmos and everything else the newer units bring.
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post #747 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Sorry, I haven't kept up with this, but when are the HDMI 2.1 AVR/processors projected to hit? I'm still running an Onkyo 885 which has to be over 10 years old now! I need to upgrade at some point to get Atmos and everything else the newer units bring.
I don't think they will make it this year, so probably early next year. Denon's 8500 will be upgradeable to 2.1. So if you want to go ahead with atmos, that is an option. Though you will have to send the unit in, for the update and it will not be a free update.
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post #748 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Most dealers sell Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ and many more. Some buy through distribution and some are dealer direct.

As for threads being pretty dead, it is June. Every summer the projector threads die down. Usually the AVR and processor threads pick up and the room construction threads pick up, but this year the AVR/processor threads are slow, due to manufacturers waiting on HDMI 2.1 before they introduce new mid level and higher end units.
Lol, Mike. It isn't officially summer yet; and even still, I highly doubt we'll see anything like those hubristic posts that came from both sides of the debate.
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post #749 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post
The best evidence is eyewitness evidence.

Dave isn’t just waving his hands around and claiming these things.
Actually, that's kinda exactly what he was doing...

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Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post
Many of us see it.
Is this still your room to this day? Thats a max 80:1 ANSI contrast capable room if so.

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post #750 of 805 Old 06-14-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Recall that the LK990 has Smarteco dimming but the LK970 doesn't.
They have some improvements to do as I posted earlier, hopefully drop in the new native 4K DMD in the future, eradicate rainbows, and they have a pretty solid machine.

Dimming enables was an absolute MUST on the LK990, if the 970 doesn't even have it, and was truly only 1400:1 then that's even worse.

The whole spectrum of issues I posted earlier are my beef as a whole with these machines, not any singular issue.

If people are going to say that Dave's settings make or break a projector, then I would ask how many of them have seen dynamic tone mapping from either MadVR or Lumagen and compared a static curve to a fully dynamic one? Its truly night and day.

I should add that my issue WITH Dave's settings were the statements from him that they DID make or break the projector and anybody who didn't use them were not 'doing it right'. You will all note that is actually the catalyst for the entire disagreement as we went on.

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