Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2971 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jason4vu View Post
Will do! Still confused with the tone mapping feature. Hopefully I will get some benefit vs what I was already doing with the integral.
On your RS500, the integral was allowing you to regain the use of the dynamic iris, and by flag stripping out the HDR metadata, allowing your machine to use its power gamma.

The new JVCs, it appears, will have their gamma, DI, and auto tone mapping all in play, so you should be able to just plug and play right from the player or your compatible receiver. And you can manually set the mapping to your liking in the projector.
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post #2972 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Thanks for the reply, Mike. I think you had alluded to this in prior posts on this topic, which is what I was vaguely remembering.

Dominic and I had an exchange in the 20LTD thread that he linked to above, which does demonstrate fairly definitively that making zonal adjustments can negatively impact the picture quality, at least when viewing test patterns. Dominic indicated there that "To be fair, I can’t say I’ve seen the issue when watching movies."

To which I responded:

"It then makes me wonder: if the initial misalignment (that using zone adjustments is intended to correct) is also not evident when watching actual content (and I understand that isn't what you just said, but might be the case), and the negative effects of zonal adjustments to the misalignment are not apparent, then are we just chasing our tails??

In other words, do these adjustments, whose need is determined by 'pixel-peeping,' have any net positive impact on picture quality when viewing actual content? Or does it just satisfy the OCD that so many of us (myself included!) suffer from?"

Who knows??
JVC said they have AB tested it and saw improvement, with zonal pixel adjustment.
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post #2973 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by alexr214 View Post
As someone else just noted, please share your thoughts on the image. Are you loving it? Any initial buyers remorse?
So far I absolutely love this machine and do not have a hint of buyers remorse. The image is positively stunning on my 135" screen and my wife even can appreciate the upgrade. She never asked how much it cost and didn't know I ordered it until she spotted the JVC box tucked into my mud room last Saturday morning. I'm assuming she didn't google the part number in curiosity of the cost. Good thing is on non-joint purchases, her money is her money and my money is my money.

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post #2974 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I agree with suggestion by others for gig to seek an advanced replacement, and gig can use our forum to apply pressure if jvc tries to convince gig his unit is exhibiting acceptable variation. Well, id hope its not acceptable variation.
JVC called me today to confirm they are shipping out a replacement, I didn’t have to fight with them at all. Also this one will be double boxed
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post #2975 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by alexr214 View Post
As someone else just noted, please share your thoughts on the image. Are you loving it? Any initial buyers remorse?
One thing I forgot to mention is the sync time. It is way way longer than my Runco. I am sitting there when changing inputs from my Marantz AV8805 hearing the audio and waiting on the video to appear with the RS3000. I'm hoping this will change once I receive my new fiber HDMI cable today. Since I had a defective fiber HDMI and had to use the old cables from my Runco, its not the same quality of cable that supports 4K. Once the RS3000 syncs, it never drops out and is stable.
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post #2976 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Integral does not strip HDR. You can continue using the Integral to get your UB900 (I assume you have this) to send SDR BT2020. The JVC will not do any tone mapping, just as your RS500 does not with SDR BT2020. You can try sending HDR to the NX9 by simply changing the EDID in the Integral to Custom EDID 11. The JVC can then apply its auto-tone mapping.
Compare both to see which you prefer.
I'd appreciate your opinion, if you'd be so kind. I still have my RS500 which was previously calibrated by Chad B. He provided me with 2 custom curves/gamma user settings for HDR (low & high) as well as one for WCG SDR BT2020 which I can use in conjunction with my HDFury Integral SDR BT2020 EDID & Panasonic UB900. I'm getting sufficient fL/nits for adequate HDR (and more than enough for SDR), but I'm wondering whether, in this setting, you personally would opt for HDR or SDR for UHD Blu Rays? Thanks, as always.
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post #2977 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
I dunno, perhaps i am taking pixel peeping too seriously. What do you guys think of my qbf results? The focus does soften a little towards either side of the screen. I took these after letting the projector warm up for an hour, i reset and performed pixel alignment all over again, it took 2-3 clicks of fine adjustment for blue and red and then i performed zone adjustment on the entire right side and left side of center. Some zones needed 8 clicks to get red in line and on average i would say 5-6 clicks per zone. Flipping back and forth from on and off for pixel alignment on the qbf pattern did make a noticeable difference, especially for white on black text. With pixel align on, it appears to be a tad bit sharper. Please note, i was limited to 4k 444 at 8bits. (because windows 10 and msi gaming laptop nonsense and i don't have mini dp to hdmi) iphone 8 camera
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
Yup, i promised myself i wouldn't pixel peep and yet, here i am, obsessing over test patterns because "i paid x amount for this machine, it better be perfect, blah blah blah". And then i actually watched some content after getting everything setup and i was amazed. Honestly, i'm surprised that even 4500's have panel alignment issues, even if it's minimal. My theory is that the panels are perfect after manufacturing and it just gets banged around during shipping. I'm going to assume that the super high end gear like the 100K+ christie projectors, probably have mechanical panel alignment that can be done on the unit itself or from a service menu.
No need to worry about pixel peeping because what you have right there is stellar performance, which I would go so far as to say is essentially on par with the performance of the JVC RS4500/Z1 with respect to the QBF test pattern. Nice!

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post #2978 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gigq View Post
JVC called me today to confirm they are shipping out a replacement, I didn’t have to fight with them at all. Also this one will be double boxed
Good to hear! That is pretty much standard practice as far as JVC is concerned. Looking forward to your feedback regarding your replacement unit

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post #2979 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
JVC said they have AB tested it and saw improvement, with zonal pixel adjustment.
I posted earlier that I use it on my RS520. It has never manifested any picture artifacts in the 2 years I've had it. Coming from the RP CRT days I'm sensitive to color shift in solid grays/whites and it has never shown this to my eyes. I'm sure there are cases as others have pointed out where it can show issues, I just haven't ran into them. I would say if your unit needs it, try it and see what you think of it with normal material. I've tried watching test patterns, but I just don't find the story compelling
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post #2980 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I believe the RPA version (pictured) can also be used for flush mount. Note that there are 4 holes surrounding the threaded section. I believe that 4 bolts go through these holes into whatever is above.

This mount looks like it is really easy to adjust. I have the cheaper version (RPM?) which is more difficult to adjust. If I was doing it now, I would probably get this version, but it's not a great problem to adjust the RPM version and once it's done I never have to mess with it as long as it's a solid flush mount. (A pole mount, especially with a longer pole, might be a different story.)
The RPA has four slotted holes for direct attachment, but notice, you can't really tighten this mount down, with the projector installed. This makes it hard to align and tighten. The RPM mount has four holes also, but the RPM mount has a rotating collar, that allows 1/4 rotation. Much easier to flush mount. Both are a problem if trying to flush mount to a single joist.
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post #2981 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 11:44 AM
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You can buy a McLaren P1 for 2 million and you will still be getting a flawed machine.....Imagine getting an older Sony with light engine degradation, I would rather hear a click any day over that......You get the point though.....

Lol...but if we keep using the past to excuse the present, how can we meaningfully move forward?

I'm not going to sugar-coat it. As someone who's owned a few JVCs already, I can say that now I'm not happy given the whole delayed launch thing and going into what I'm reading here so far regarding the RS3000/NX9s.

My confidence has been shaken and I'm now on the fence. This thread has been very helpful, though, in helping me take note on the positives I expected versus the pitfalls/issues here reported. I'll be well-advised when I finally demo.
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post #2982 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would only use 3/4" plywood for the shelf and also install a piece of 1x2 or trim on the front edge to reinforce the shelf.
After the unfortunate event which occurred when I initially ceiling mounted my RS500 via sheet rock anchors, I've now secured the plate to the Chief mount and then directly onto a solid 3/4" board which is then screwed that board directly into the 2 closest ceiling joists. My installer actually successfully suspended his weight while holding onto the mount prior to putting up the RS500 in its new ceiling location. I'm anticipating that the NX7 won't be problematic in this setting when I swap it out for the RS500.
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post #2983 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
To be fair to Apple, they send metadata just fine on HDR10 formatted content.

The only issue is when DolbyVision is converted to HDR10 metadata and then it is only on a smaller portion of the DolbyVision content. Projectors weren't meant to handle DolbyVision anyway. Yes, it would be nice to for Apple to fix their conversion routine from DV to HDR10 but it effects such a minute percentage of their target customers that I think the only way it will happen is if there is major change to the OS when HDR10+ is added.
You say it like it is the minority case. For anyone using primarily Netflix for 4K HDR on ATV4K (like me) this is ALL HDR playback. For Itunes Movies there appear to now be a strong favouring of DV content; if you look at the current "Pure Spectacle" list - the first list I came across in the 4K category - of the first 10 items 8 are DV and 2 are HDR10.

Someone said something which I thought was quite interesting in one of the conversations on this subject. Many folk watching HDR on TVs are quite used to the likes of ABL kicking in and messing with the luminance of the image, so it is quite possible that actually this is affecting other users, they just can't see it for all the other futzing around their display is doing to get them an HDR image. Whereas us projection folk have no underlying luminance jumps (unless using DI) but are agressive users of tone mapping curves which does exasperate the issue.

Unfortunately it does seem likelihood of getting it fixed is slim. I'm hoping that when Lumagen do their dynamic tone mapping implementation that the scene detection is sophisticated enough to be able to defer metadata changes until the scene actually has changed. Fingers crossed!
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post #2984 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
After the unfortunate event which occurred when I initially ceiling mounted my RS500 via sheet rock anchors, I've now mounted the plate onto a solid board and then screwed that board directly into the ceiling joists. My installer actually successfully suspended his weight while holding onto the mount prior to putting up the RS500 in its new ceiling location. I'm anticipating that the NX7 won't be problematic in this setting when I swap it out for the RS500.
Sounds "painful". As someone who has the dubious honour of having launched a DLA-X3 across the room at great speed while trying to align a stupidly designed close coupled ceiling mount, I feel your pain. Looked like it was going in slow motion across my hardwood floor...! D'oh.
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post #2985 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
Yup, i promised myself i wouldn't pixel peep and yet, here i am, obsessing over test patterns because "i paid x amount for this machine, it better be perfect, blah blah blah". And then i actually watched some content after getting everything setup and i was amazed. Honestly, i'm surprised that even 4500's have panel alignment issues, even if it's minimal. My theory is that the panels are perfect after manufacturing and it just gets banged around during shipping. I'm going to assume that the super high end gear like the 100K+ christie projectors, probably have mechanical panel alignment that can be done on the unit itself or from a service menu.
I do not know of any three panel projectors that do not have some misconvergence. The 60K Sony VW5000 has some. Also keep in mind, if you set up your projector dead center of the screen and did not have any misconvergence, does not mean that you would not have any misconvergence, once you ceiling mounted the projector. Just as if you mount your projector and do zonal convergence and then moved the projector to a different location, using a completely different setup, you would need to converge the projector again. In other words lens shift does effect convergence. Not a great amount, but it does have some effect.
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post #2986 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Sounds "painful". As someone who has the dubious honour of having launched a DLA-X3 across the room at great speed while trying to align a stupidly designed close coupled ceiling mount, I feel your pain. Looked like it was going in slow motion across my hardwood floor...! D'oh.
After about 2 days of use I noticed that the image was drifting downward from the initial alignment. I got on a ladder and found that there was a lot of up & down play at the lens. While standing next to it I watched it fall off the ceiling (also, seemingly in in slow motion). I tried to catch it, but it was too heavy and the front end crashed onto the sofa table from about 6'. Luckily, it was repaired at the Atlanta facility ($$$$) but has operated flawlessly over the past 2 years.
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post #2987 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:20 PM
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Lol...but if we keep using the past to excuse the present, how can we meaningfully move forward?

I'm not going to sugar-coat it. As someone who's owned a few JVCs already, I can say that now I'm not happy given the whole delayed launch thing and going into what I'm reading here so far regarding the RS3000/NX9s.

My confidence has been shaken and I'm now on the fence. This thread has been very helpful, though, in helping me take note on the positives I expected versus the pitfalls/issues here reported. I'll be well-advised when I finally demo.
I would demo first before going into conclusions. Many people who have no problems don't even post, they just enjoy . But when issues arrive, they get posted, you see it, and then you worry. Don't.
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post #2988 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rg4471 View Post
So far I absolutely love this machine and do not have a hint of buyers remorse. The image is positively stunning on my 135" screen and my wife even can appreciate the upgrade. She never asked how much it cost and didn't know I ordered it until she spotted the JVC box tucked into my mud room last Saturday morning. I'm assuming she didn't google the part number in curiosity of the cost. Good thing is on non-joint purchases, her money is her money and my money is my money.
And we all live happily ever after.
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post #2989 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rg4471 View Post
So far I absolutely love this machine and do not have a hint of buyers remorse. The image is positively stunning on my 135" screen and my wife even can appreciate the upgrade. She never asked how much it cost and didn't know I ordered it until she spotted the JVC box tucked into my mud room last Saturday morning. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] I'm assuming she didn't google the part number in curiosity of the cost. Good thing is on non-joint purchases, her money is her money and my money is my money. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
And we all live happily ever after. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
It is indeed peaceful &#x1f604;
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post #2990 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:35 PM
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Out of interest, did you ever find any good real-world examples? We all know you can find a test image to expose pretty much any image processing algorithm; alternating single pixel lines has to be one of the least likely patterns to occur in nature though.
I don't think I saw Javs reply to this, but here is one of Javs examples of what zone correction can do to real world examples (guys jacket from Lucy):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post55229888

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #2991 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Lol...but if we keep using the past to excuse the present, how can we meaningfully move forward?

I'm not going to sugar-coat it. As someone who's owned a few JVCs already, I can say that now I'm not happy given the whole delayed launch thing and going into what I'm reading here so far regarding the RS3000/NX9s.

My confidence has been shaken and I'm now on the fence. This thread has been very helpful, though, in helping me take note on the positives I expected versus the pitfalls/issues here reported. I'll be well-advised when I finally demo.
I would demo first before going into conclusions. Many people who have no problems don't even post, they just enjoy [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]. But when issues arrive, they get posted, you see it, and then you worry. Don't.
This is good advice. We would all run to this board in mild panic if our new and expensive projector was showing issues. Squeaky wheels get a lot of grease at launch time.

Likewise, there's also a human tendency to over-exaggerate how sublime our new projector is initially so we can justify and condition ourselves to what we just spent to replace our already great projectors.

Both extremes become tempered after a few weeks usually. Issues get resolved and enthusiasm wears off.

I want an RS4500 so badly, but I would never talk to myself again. Not sure I could even turn it on and enjoy it. But that's my quirk to deal with.

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post #2992 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:42 PM
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I don't think I saw Javs reply to this, but here is one of Javs examples of what zone correction can do to real world examples (guys jacket from Lucy):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post55229888
Thanks Gary, I'd never seen a good real-life example of it in use but it stands to reason they do exist. I've personally never bothered to set up the fine or zone alignment (all my units have been good enough for my blind eyes with just a nudge here or there on the full pixel adjustments).
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post #2993 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:45 PM
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Coming from a 990, here are my thoughts:

- It's a heavy beast. Definitely a two person job to mount unless you are The Rock or John Cena.
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Originally Posted by rg4471 View Post
So far I absolutely love this machine and do not have a hint of buyers remorse. The image is positively stunning on my 135" screen and my wife even can appreciate the upgrade. She never asked how much it cost and didn't know I ordered it until she spotted the JVC box tucked into my mud room last Saturday morning. I'm assuming she didn't google the part number in curiosity of the cost. Good thing is on non-joint purchases, her money is her money and my money is my money.
Thank you both for the initial thoughts. Hoping the NX7's inherits some of those benefits albeit not the weight. Wasn't really thinking about that much but now realize there is no way I will be able to "sneak" it into the theater without anyone noticing. Figured that once it was up, it would be less of a debate at home about the purchase....but if I need help to get it up, then i need to prepare for the debate.
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post #2994 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:48 PM
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The RPA has four slotted holes for direct attachment, but notice, you can't really tighten this mount down, with the projector installed. This makes it hard to align and tighten. The RPM mount has four holes also, but the RPM mount has a rotating collar, that allows 1/4 rotation. Much easier to flush mount. Both are a problem if trying to flush mount to a single joist.
Yes. In my case, I have a 2x10 bolted between 2 ceiling joists with an access panel next to it. The RPA is attached via through holes in the 2x10 with nuts and fender washers which are accessible through the access panel. So I can easily loosen the nuts slightly to adjust the projector in yaw.

Given this arrangement (which would probably also work for for the RPM), I think that I have the most stable arrangement possible since the RPA has a much greater surface area to clamp against the ceiling. (This not to say that other arrangements would be a problem, just that I have a greater confidence that my projector is never going to move.)

Of course, I realize that it would be a fairly major project to do this in an existing room. I did it as part of a renovation of the room that had required removing large parts of the ceiling drywall.

PS The space between the joists extends over and is open to a closet where all my equipment is, so running cables is simplicity itself.

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post #2995 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:49 PM
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Unfortunately it does seem likelihood of getting it fixed is slim.
Ironically, when I downgraded(?) from the X570 to the x750 I had to use a Linker, and that also avoided the ATV DV issue.

JVC DLA-NX7; Denon AVR-X3400H; HD Fury Vertex; ATV4K; Fire TV Cube
JVC Projector Bright Curves; Optimizing HDR;
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post #2996 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by alexr214 View Post
Thank you both for the initial thoughts. Hoping the NX7's inherits some of those benefits albeit not the weight. Wasn't really thinking about that much but now realize there is no way I will be able to "sneak" it into the theater without anyone noticing. Figured that once it was up, it would be less of a debate at home about the purchase....but if I need help to get it up, then i need to prepare for the debate.
I was actually hoping that she wouldn't realize my purchase until I was handing her a pair of 3D glasses to watch a movie . My Runco was not 3D capable. I never thought of watching 3D on a TV panel. I feel if you're going to watch 3D, it needs to be on a large format screen.
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post #2997 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rg4471 View Post
One thing I forgot to mention is the sync time. It is way way longer than my Runco. I am sitting there when changing inputs from my Marantz AV8805 hearing the audio and waiting on the video to appear with the RS3000. I'm hoping this will change once I receive my new fiber HDMI cable today. Since I had a defective fiber HDMI and had to use the old cables from my Runco, its not the same quality of cable that supports 4K. Once the RS3000 syncs, it never drops out and is stable.
May I ask how long your HDMI run is? I'm thinking about the RS2000 and have pretty long run, so wondering if I will need to run new HDMI or add a repeater.
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post #2998 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexr214 View Post
Thank you both for the initial thoughts. Hoping the NX7's inherits some of those benefits albeit not the weight. Wasn't really thinking about that much but now realize there is no way I will be able to "sneak" it into the theater without anyone noticing. Figured that once it was up, it would be less of a debate at home about the purchase....but if I need help to get it up, then i need to prepare for the debate.
You can do it ! I snuck an SVS PC12 Plus cylinder on a refer dolly into my theater ( with my wife in her office ) and snuck it right behind her seat in the theater. Eventually she did see it.
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post #2999 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 01:16 PM
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Hehe, i have an agreement with my significant other that we will never question each other's purchases. In fact, when she wanted me to move with her to Dallas, TX i told her that i would only move if we got a house with a dedicated theater room that i could do whatever i wanted with, no questions asked, since i would be giving up my smaller theater i had in my old town house. She doesn't question my AV gear purchases and i don't question the multitude of toys and ridiculous sweaters she buys for our corgi puppy. We do give each other the occasional eye roll. Yesterday, i received my new emotiva xpa amp. She asked what it was, i said "more theater stuff". She just eye rolled. lol.
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post #3000 of 20885 Old 01-23-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
I don't think I saw Javs reply to this, but here is one of Javs examples of what zone correction can do to real world examples (guys jacket from Lucy):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post55229888
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Thanks Gary, I'd never seen a good real-life example of it in use but it stands to reason they do exist. I've personally never bothered to set up the fine or zone alignment (all my units have been good enough for my blind eyes with just a nudge here or there on the full pixel adjustments).
Just to be clear, what is being shown is the Sony with auto panel alignment off and then shown on. On the Sony it comes from the factory, set to on. This is item number 21, I believe, in the service menu. I do not recall anyone showing the difference between no zonal correction and with zonal correction on a JVC.
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